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Post by faithopelove on Feb 18, 2020 1:41:30 GMT
Your thoughts sound accurate to me. This actually reminds me of all the inner turmoil and push/pull I read about on behalf of the FA. Both wanting and fearing a relationship. Leaning anxious one day and avoidant the next. It always sounds like a roller coaster ride so asking you to be his girlfriend and then only seeing you once or twice a month and distancing sounds par for the course in a relationship w an FA.
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Post by dhali on Feb 18, 2020 4:25:18 GMT
You want them around. It’s comforting. And there is an intimacy, but it’s at a comfortable arms length. And nothing can change. Because god forbid we have to lift a finger to make it work. That’s asking too much. Why can’t it just be, and be comfortable? Now I have to listen to something that’s bothering you. Why can’t we just be? I like it when we can just be. Solving relationship problems makes me feel like I lose something. I’m just supposed to believe you have my best interests at heart? How does that work? Why can’t we just be? Don’t make it messy. Unless I do, then just clean up my mess. Thanks. Why can’t we just be? If we cuddle, and watch a movie then I don’t have to really engage with you. And it feels good. You feel good. I like you. No, I don’t want to talk about things that bother me. But I like spending time with you.
I’m not saying it’s a good outlook. That’s why these relationships fail.
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Post by serenity on Feb 18, 2020 7:47:11 GMT
FA's can do a lot better than seeing you once a month. I would interpret his behaviour as his intimacy needs and comfort with intimacy as being very low. But you can still create a consistent connection outside of that. Usually a mutual interest, or some form of mental connection can help there...something that keeps the conversations going that isn't `high engulfment'.
Caroline, do you currently have some mutual interests, or any you can develop? Like are there TV shows you like to discuss, any hobbies that you share and talk about...that sort of thing?
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 18, 2020 10:30:34 GMT
You want them around. It’s comforting. And there is an intimacy, but it’s at a comfortable arms length. And nothing can change. Because god forbid we have to lift a finger to make it work. That’s asking too much. Why can’t it just be, and be comfortable? Now I have to listen to something that’s bothering you. Why can’t we just be? I like it when we can just be. Solving relationship problems makes me feel like I lose something. I’m just supposed to believe you have my best interests at heart? How does that work? Why can’t we just be? Don’t make it messy. Unless I do, then just clean up my mess. Thanks. Why can’t we just be? If we cuddle, and watch a movie then I don’t have to really engage with you. And it feels good. You feel good. I like you. No, I don’t want to talk about things that bother me. But I like spending time with you. I’m not saying it’s a good outlook. That’s why these relationships fail. Wow...just...wow. Explains my whole relationship. |
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Why date?
Feb 18, 2020 15:22:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by Helsbells on Feb 18, 2020 15:22:22 GMT
You want them around. It’s comforting. And there is an intimacy, but it’s at a comfortable arms length. And nothing can change. Because god forbid we have to lift a finger to make it work. That’s asking too much. Why can’t it just be, and be comfortable? Now I have to listen to something that’s bothering you. Why can’t we just be? I like it when we can just be. Solving relationship problems makes me feel like I lose something. I’m just supposed to believe you have my best interests at heart? How does that work? Why can’t we just be? Don’t make it messy. Unless I do, then just clean up my mess. Thanks. Why can’t we just be? If we cuddle, and watch a movie then I don’t have to really engage with you. And it feels good. You feel good. I like you. No, I don’t want to talk about things that bother me. But I like spending time with you. I’m not saying it’s a good outlook. That’s why these relationships fail. Wow...just...wow. Explains my whole relationship. Wow mine too. Such insight 😟 |
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Post by nyc718 on Feb 18, 2020 15:52:15 GMT
I probably should be able to explain this by now but curious to hear thoughts... Why ask someone to date you and commit - when they didn’t ask you to - if you don’t want to (or seem to) spend much time with them? I’m not talking about everyday or even multiple times a week - nothing overwhelming, I just mean overall - in general. I spoke to my FA about his distance and he says it has nothing to do with me etc and he wants me to keep asking him to hang etc - but I’m just curious everyone’s thoughts. Is it just the wanting to be close but also fearing? Keeping at arms length but not wanting to lose you? Because they want all the benefits without doing one ounce of work to bring back to the table. And to me, that is not attractive. |
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Post by kittygirl on Feb 18, 2020 16:35:47 GMT
Solving relationship problems makes me feel like I lose something.
I found this line here, of everything you said to be so enlightening. I suppose that at the end of the day, THIS is what makes it impossible.
Caroline-I like all the posts on here so far and I have no doubt you'll get a ton more insights from the people here-each of which can be a drop in your bucket about the relationship. I can give you my own unique perspective which comes from a recent convo I had with my FA ex. He was married previously and was the one who asked for a divorce. Now he really wants to get back with her (this is just par for the course with an FA though and is more just background information). We were talking and he said how frustrated it makes him that he pushes everyone away and when I asked him if he pushed her away while they were married he said "Well we never really did anything together at all". This woman loves traveling and does it a LOT-so she had to do all of that either alone or with friends. Period. None with him. That's what the marriage was like-2 people just sort of surviving in each other's presence with no growth or symphony of shared experiences. He asked her to marry him-that is what he genuinely wanted but at the end of the day, his needs for intimacy require SO MUCH emotional separation that probably most people (or a huge chunk of people) would find it totally unfulfilling. I did and I was "with" the guy in a long distance relationship for 6 months!
Do you think that your needs for intimacy (which includes sex-I saw your post in the other channel) are being met? What if you discovered that for him, the amount of interaction you are having now is the "right amount"? Would that preclude you from wanting to stay together or fighting for something that might feel to you like a trickle at best? I'm only asking because these are quite literally the exact questions I asked myself before I had "the talk" with my ex-I realized that it wasn't enough and I was waiting around for something for him to give me that he simply couldn't.  |
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Post by serenity on Feb 18, 2020 20:43:43 GMT
Caroline, I like that this is has become focused on why YOU are dating, rather than just him <3
If you were to completely focus on your own independent relationship goals, do you think you could say what they are? Do you want marriage, children, to share a home with someone? If not, is that only because of the man you are with, or is it truly something you don't want ? (just putting the question out there for you)
And secondly, can you identify these:
1. What you absolutely need and want in a man (and won't compromise)
2. What you will absolutely not tolerate
3 What kind of things are flexible for you personally?
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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 18, 2020 23:04:32 GMT
I probably should be able to explain this by now but curious to hear thoughts... Why ask someone to date you and commit - when they didn’t ask you to - if you don’t want to (or seem to) spend much time with them? I’m not talking about everyday or even multiple times a week - nothing overwhelming, I just mean overall - in general. I spoke to my FA about his distance and he says it has nothing to do with me etc and he wants me to keep asking him to hang etc - but I’m just curious everyone’s thoughts. Is it just the wanting to be close but also fearing? Keeping at arms length but not wanting to lose you? Human brain 90% subconscious thought, 10% conscious thought. So logic is out the window, it's the subconscious programming that is driving. Unless an "awakening" occurs, like the guys on here, who still are struggling to regulate and understand themselves still, therein lies the answer. They want genuine connection, a baseline human need, but can't do it. I'm sure if the good people on these forums could, with a "flick of the switch", turn off the pain, the doubts etc they would. |
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Post by faithopelove on Feb 18, 2020 23:17:09 GMT
I probably should be able to explain this by now but curious to hear thoughts... Why ask someone to date you and commit - when they didn’t ask you to - if you don’t want to (or seem to) spend much time with them? I’m not talking about everyday or even multiple times a week - nothing overwhelming, I just mean overall - in general. I spoke to my FA about his distance and he says it has nothing to do with me etc and he wants me to keep asking him to hang etc - but I’m just curious everyone’s thoughts. Is it just the wanting to be close but also fearing? Keeping at arms length but not wanting to lose you? Because they want all the benefits without doing one ounce of work to bring back to the table. And to me, that is not attractive. - Yes, all the benefits of a relationship without the responsibility. Keeping one at one’s length precludes then from any real vulnerability or work. This suits them. |
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Post by dhali on Feb 18, 2020 23:48:18 GMT
I probably should be able to explain this by now but curious to hear thoughts... Why ask someone to date you and commit - when they didn’t ask you to - if you don’t want to (or seem to) spend much time with them? I’m not talking about everyday or even multiple times a week - nothing overwhelming, I just mean overall - in general. I spoke to my FA about his distance and he says it has nothing to do with me etc and he wants me to keep asking him to hang etc - but I’m just curious everyone’s thoughts. Is it just the wanting to be close but also fearing? Keeping at arms length but not wanting to lose you? Human brain 90% subconscious thought, 10% conscious thought. So logic is out the window, it's the subconscious programming that is driving. Unless an "awakening" occurs, like the guys on here, who still are struggling to regulate and understand themselves still, therein lies the answer. They want genuine connection, a baseline human need, but can't do it. I'm sure if the good people on these forums could, with a "flick of the switch", turn off the pain, the doubts etc they would. This is correct. Even being aware that these are fucked up thoughts is fairly new. And now all I can think of is- who the hell has the time to make a relationship work?? And I’m aware! So much so that I have told the woman I’m currently seeing that in an fa and working through it. If I lose her as a result of telling her, so be it. It’s not great advertising. Something I would have hid before. Why self-disqualify? As if they shouldn’t have the information. I also recently cut off dating a woman because we were on different pages (normally I’d see if there’s something that could be drummed up). These are all new secure behaviors. Part of the problem is I’ll logic kill you. And that’s not what relationships are. That’s tough to understand and get comfortable with since my neural programming is to default to- you’re getting fucked. So I have to change this, but that comes with leaps of faith seldom seen this side of the Mississippi. What if I think your positions are ridiculous? The whole thing feels zero sum. It’s not, but that not how I’ve been programmed. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 19, 2020 1:42:38 GMT
Human brain 90% subconscious thought, 10% conscious thought. So logic is out the window, it's the subconscious programming that is driving. Unless an "awakening" occurs, like the guys on here, who still are struggling to regulate and understand themselves still, therein lies the answer. They want genuine connection, a baseline human need, but can't do it. I'm sure if the good people on these forums could, with a "flick of the switch", turn off the pain, the doubts etc they would. This is correct. Even being aware that these are fucked up thoughts is fairly new. And now all I can think of is- who the hell has the time to make a relationship work?? And I’m aware! So much so that I have told the woman I’m currently seeing that in an fa and working through it. If I lose her as a result of telling her, so be it. It’s not great advertising. Something I would have hid before. Why self-disqualify? As if they shouldn’t have the information. I also recently cut off dating a woman because we were on different pages (normally I’d see if there’s something that could be drummed up). These are all new secure behaviors. Part of the problem is I’ll logic kill you. And that’s not what relationships are. That’s tough to understand and get comfortable with since my neural programming is to default to- you’re getting fucked. So I have to change this, but that comes with leaps of faith seldom seen this side of the Mississippi. What if I think your positions are ridiculous? The whole thing feels zero sum. It’s not, but that not how I’ve been programmed. You know what Dhali, much respect to you for telling her, and it is more secure behaviour definitely, being truthful, honest regardless of outcome a big step, and you should be proud of yourself immensely for that. haha, you definitely potentially will "logic kill" someone, my F-A "logic killed" me, but being a massive logical thinker on the side, I nutted it all out, and I will support her as she deems fit in future, that's why i'm here personally learning all I can. It helps me identify other things in my own behaviour and potential dating partners to discuss in a civil manner as required. So with this statement: "What if I think your positions are ridiculous? The whole thing feels zero sum. It’s not, but that not how I’ve been programmed." Basically what you are saying is, you'll just go the opposite anyway? Of opinions etc and make life tough for the partner due to subconscious response? Am I understanding right? If so that makes sense, because you're in effect testing for reactions for safety I would suspect, (because your boundaries have been quashed by caregiver and you were trapped/humiliated/hurt) seeing if they will just walk away, abuse you etc? Would that make sense? My ex. passively aggressively tested me numerous times, I never reacted, but she did it, and she was fine the next day, and reached out and apologised. It seems like that is what you are trying to say. And that clearly is subconscious related. Getting back to the trauma and 4F's and emotional flashbacks in Pete Walkers book, the inner critical voice has a hand in overriding the true Ego, and via the ID part of the subconscious, which can be split in behaviour patterns, it releases an emotional flashback, an outburst, or rejecting behaviour etc. Richard Grannon explains it well on his Youtube channel. Is that linked? |
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Post by nyc718 on Feb 19, 2020 3:07:30 GMT
I probably should be able to explain this by now but curious to hear thoughts... Why ask someone to date you and commit - when they didn’t ask you to - if you don’t want to (or seem to) spend much time with them? I’m not talking about everyday or even multiple times a week - nothing overwhelming, I just mean overall - in general. I spoke to my FA about his distance and he says it has nothing to do with me etc and he wants me to keep asking him to hang etc - but I’m just curious everyone’s thoughts. Is it just the wanting to be close but also fearing? Keeping at arms length but not wanting to lose you? Human brain 90% subconscious thought, 10% conscious thought. So logic is out the window, it's the subconscious programming that is driving. Unless an "awakening" occurs, like the guys on here, who still are struggling to regulate and understand themselves still, therein lies the answer. They want genuine connection, a baseline human need, but can't do it. I'm sure if the good people on these forums could, with a "flick of the switch", turn off the pain, the doubts etc they would. Speaking of awakening, I just read something so profound and helpful - it said awakened doesn't mean better than anyone else, it means you're ready and willing to deal with your shit. So seems that every person on this forum is awakened, as it seems we are all dealing with our individual issues no matter where we are on our journey. That's something to be proud of. |
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Post by dhali on Feb 19, 2020 7:40:56 GMT
The zero sum thing- it’s just a way of expressing the either you get your way, or I get mine. And chances are it’s going to be your way, because fuckall if what I have to think about it matters. You’re just going to nit pick me. This doesn’t feel very in my best interests. So why am I living a life where I have to compromise on seemingly everything?? I don’t know. This still resonates deeply. What’s the upside here again? Oh, right. Intimacy.
Anyhow, it’s all communication breakdowns because the tools dont exist. To either access the emotion, have the comprehension to know where it comes from, and to express it in a constructive manner. That’s a tall order. and this thing is on 24x7?
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Post by iz42 on Feb 19, 2020 8:40:14 GMT
dhali it's helpful that you say that the tools don't exist. I see that going both ways with anxiousness/avoidance. Focusing on zero sum and getting your own way seems like a pretty effective distancing tactic. You say solving relationship problems makes you feel like you lose something... but what do you lose? the fantasy of the honeymoon? the belief that relationships should always be effortless and go your way?
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