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Post by serenity on Feb 19, 2020 10:16:20 GMT
The zero sum thing- it’s just a way of expressing the either you get your way, or I get mine. And chances are it’s going to be your way, because fuckall if what I have to think about it matters. You’re just going to nit pick me. This doesn’t feel very in my best interests. So why am I living a life where I have to compromise on seemingly everything?? I don’t know. This still resonates deeply. What’s the upside here again? Oh, right. Intimacy. Anyhow, it’s all communication breakdowns because the tools dont exist. To either access the emotion, have the comprehension to know where it comes from, and to express it in a constructive manner. That’s a tall order. and this thing is on 24x7? I had a Narc mother and understand the specific defenses you mentioned. Not all FA's have the same mental health or family backgrounds tho. The males I know were wildly different from one another. One schizoid, and the other a child sex abuse victim. you can't really stereotype. Having a narc parent involves its own set of triggers. |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 19, 2020 12:45:30 GMT
Completely off topic and rather selfish.....but I have spent the last couple of days chewing on this...and what my thoughts keep doing is looking for ways that B acted similar, but at the same time, looking for ways that B was different.....it is automatic and exhausting and I think it comes from desperately wanting consistency as a child but not getting it. What parent am I getting today? One that acts like she loves me or one who is frustrated and angry at me. Both are true....so there is this acknowledgement that something is off in the relationship but also hope that it really isn’t permanent...along with a sub line that looks for ways that I could have “changed” in order to be more what my parent wanted. So on the one hand, I agree because B and I spent most of our time together just hanging out...watching movies or tv shows....he would actually stay up far later then I did when he would stay over watching series on Netflix and he would drink...usually he would go through a 6 pack of beer. But...and here is the kicker...on the other hand, he did things so much differently with his new gf that I project him as being different with her. That he isn’t really FA, that because she is different(and let’s be clear here...I know nothing about her) that he is different too....thus, he is not FA and I missed out on a great guy (not going to go further because this pattern is truly an AP nightmare). Anyways...thank you for letting me highjack this thread for a moment...just needed to get that out.
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Post by dhali on Feb 19, 2020 16:03:38 GMT
Iz43. No it’s much simpler than that. It could be (if living together) that somehow my job it to take out the garbage. Why? Why can’t you do it? Because you dint like to. Well I do t like to either. But for some reason that’s now a thing I do. Why do I have more things to do? And it all has to be done on their schedule. Do I even own my life?
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 19, 2020 16:21:49 GMT
Iz43. No it’s much simpler than that. It could be (if living together) that somehow my job it to take out the garbage. Why? Why can’t you do it? Because you dint like to. Well I do t like to either. But for some reason that’s now a thing I do. Why do I have more things to do? And it all has to be done on their schedule. Do I even own my life? Wow...so your boundaries are pretty darn tight. |
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Why date?
Feb 19, 2020 17:40:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by mrob on Feb 19, 2020 17:40:14 GMT
My married experience was when I made decisions, they were the wrong ones. All the time. The consequences were just too much. You make the decisions and I’ll deal with it as best I can. Happy wife, happy life.
Before I knew about attachment theory, I knew I had the cart before the horse somehow. I found a secure lady and I shut my mouth. It was my longest and most successful relationship. 7 years. But, because I didn’t know about this stuff, I was in cycles of engulfment, deactivating and coming back. I wasn’t really coping for years.
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Post by nyc718 on Feb 19, 2020 17:43:51 GMT
Iz43. No it’s much simpler than that. It could be (if living together) that somehow my job it to take out the garbage. Why? Why can’t you do it? Because you dint like to. Well I do t like to either. But for some reason that’s now a thing I do. Why do I have more things to do? And it all has to be done on their schedule. Do I even own my life? But when you're in a relationship, it's a compromise no? You do some things, some if which you don't like to do, and I do some things that I don't like to do, but...they need to be done. You have to pick and choose your battles. That's just being an adult and a responsible person. I'm wondering if there's more to this than you're saying. It sounds like you don't like being controlled which is understandable, but who does? In a healthy relationship no one should be controlling anyone, but both do need to do things that aren't particularly fun to do. That's just life though, it's not all rainbows and unicorns. But can we be grown enough together to figure out what works for both of us? To me, that's the goal, for both to be happy with the division of labor and responsibility towards each other. |
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Post by nyc718 on Feb 19, 2020 17:46:15 GMT
Iz43. No it’s much simpler than that. It could be (if living together) that somehow my job it to take out the garbage. Why? Why can’t you do it? Because you dint like to. Well I do t like to either. But for some reason that’s now a thing I do. Why do I have more things to do? And it all has to be done on their schedule. Do I even own my life? This kind of reminds me of how I want him to take lead planning sometimes and once I was like, you can pick a day, and he’s like so can you. But overall, he is terrible at taking the lead on planning. TBH, a big part of me wanting him to take the lead on planning is so that HE can schedule around what he feels comfortable, not feel overwhelmed or engulfed, so he can feel in control, and knowing his moods are more varying than mine, etc. I don’t see it as being negatively passive / giving up what I want on my part it’s just that I’m generally way more flexible and my boundaries aren’t as tight... I’m usually up for whatever, etc. yes, I might have more on my calendar but it’s easier for me to be flexible or frankly just figure it out. So I see it as giving him the lead as more of respect for his tight boundaries, more strict preferences, etc. It’s also like - damned if I do, damned if I don’t. I feel like sometimes if I ask, I’m being annoying when he’s trying to avoid; but if I don’t ask, I’m abandoning or leaving it to him to do things he’s not good at / doesn’t always have the courage to do. I just don’t want to drag him into something he doesn’t want to do. When at the end of the day, I just want to hang out. Planning has mostly been prompted successfully by me just being super direct. But underneath I still have to fight feeling annoying - which is likely an AP thing. Last week was a telling example- we both felt Vday was stupid and didn’t want to hang out especially on a Friday after a long week - and preferred the Saturday - but neither of us wanted to upset or offend the other, so we didn’t communicate it. I’m kind of glad that happened as we both realized (I think) how we just have to communicate more, and it’s ok if it’s not all yes, yes, yes. I say if he doesn't take the lead on planning and then you do the planning, then he has no right to complain then, and you should let him know that you are welcome to any ideas he has, but he does actually have to make a move. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 19, 2020 23:09:41 GMT
Iz43. No it’s much simpler than that. It could be (if living together) that somehow my job it to take out the garbage. Why? Why can’t you do it? Because you dint like to. Well I do t like to either. But for some reason that’s now a thing I do. Why do I have more things to do? And it all has to be done on their schedule. Do I even own my life? Actually this makes sense due to boundary quashing from parent. And ties into the "fantasy bond" (codependency) concept of "roles" being administered in the relationship after a merging, slipping into a full integration with the relationship (full happiness and the concept of love tied to the other person and the relationship, a throwback to enmeshment with parent? "You're responsible for the way I feel, and I'm responsible for the way you feel") and partner as opposed to remaining independent with interdependence in the relationship i.e. you love yourself primarily, don't need another to be happy within oneself/love oneself, along with strong boundaries of what you are willing to accept and will express those boundaries when challenged regardless of the outcome in the relationship. The scenario you mention would only happen with another insecure really, who has blurred boundaries and also congeals themselves with the other to fill a void of love within themselves. All based upon assumptions without direct communication of expectations and a chance for the other person to exclaim their feelings/emotions around any particular matter. Has a lot to do with respect of the other partner (and yourself) and true communication of needs desires. You mention above there is no organised communication patterns to leverage upon. So as you say......there is little hope unless this is worked upon really, as it will always end up in an argument, with the full emotions being explosively unleashed, or bottled up and the same result with a full pull away, and then the deathknell of the relationship. |
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Why date?
Feb 19, 2020 23:28:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by dhali on Feb 19, 2020 23:28:57 GMT
Bingo
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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 19, 2020 23:38:23 GMT
Appreciate the share and the mindset vs the internal subconscious patterns. |
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Post by dhali on Feb 21, 2020 6:06:49 GMT
It’s because he’s damaged. You have to meet him where he is. THats how all relationships work. You can’t change him. You’re currently in the same dance by not communicating your needs/feelings. Probably because you don’t want to spook him. But that is part of the dance. why don’t you just express all of this to him? It doesn’t sound like you’re happy.
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Post by serenity on Feb 21, 2020 6:44:24 GMT
He asked me to “pull” when he goes in his cave - I’m guessing when he was triggered anxious, yet that’s a double edged sword because I’m guessing it just builds resentment. In that same conversation, he asked me to “please don’t stop” being so kind and asking him to hang out. But again, it feels like resentment could build and I don’t want him to be obligated. And why is it so hard to pull a straight answer out of him? And do my needs ever matter? I can see how its so hard to do what he suggests  The person who initiates the most is in the more vulnerable position, putting themselves much more on the line. I read often that being pursued comforts an avoidant, but at the expense of their partner. But if you initiate things and frequently receive silence and rejection, it causes a lot of anxiety. Part of it is the intermittent reinforcement, the not knowing if ``this time'' you can have your connection (and other) needs met. Part of it is that when your own partner withdraws or ignores your bids for connection, it can feel like rejection and trigger you. You're really great at not `over chasing' or blowing up his phone when you're anxious and triggered. And I like this idea for using an emoji for him to communicate when he's too triggered. I wonder if that could work for you as well? He might not be able to discern when you seriously need a response from him, and when its okay for him to get back to you another time. You might be able to help by using an `emergency, I feel vulnerable' emoji too? You might ask him to just send an emoji back, just to let you know he's there. |
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Post by Helsbells on Feb 23, 2020 20:43:35 GMT
I'm not sure where to put this, so I'm putting this here — I read on Diane Poole Heller's blog that once FAs realize no one is in their "house" (in the other room), a deep depression comes over them — that fear of abandonment has been justified. I'm just trying to understand the feeling — so it's basically like instant relief they're left alone and then in X amount of time, deep depression? I've kind of experienced that before, where I've pushed someone away then was like "oh crap, I didn't mean to." With my FA, I might can see this in smaller quantities. I guess the triggering anxious to prevent the abandonment. Like if I'm short, busy, or a little distant, he'll reach out much more. Sometimes say I don't answer for an hour (not on purpose, just say in a dinner etc), he'll text again. Never like "where are you?" etc as he's not that direct, but just something else random. It's interesting because in my AP style, I wouldn't ever text again unless someone hadn't answered for like a day or multiple days. I'd be upset internally and get anxious, but never show it like that. I wonder if it's worse on your body to internalize — but better for relationships/others — or if it's the same on your body. Sometimes I also feel like he throws out things to test me. I've read about how some of the distancing strategies can be tests, some not — never really easy to tell. I'm always trying to be consistent, etc, and it's easier now that I can recognize protest behavior quickly in myself and even if I can't stop the urges, I can usually just try to act normal or just give myself a time out. (again my protest behaviors are not communicating out of answer, etc — not like over texting or being mean etc) It would be nice to hear a success story, from what I've read and learnt, its Nye on impossible to have a fulfilling relationship with FAs unless they are willing to do all the really hard work on themselves it takes to change. After two years of push and pull and as much as I really care about my ex I have had to accept this. It's not easy as I know how much he cares for me and I could probably jump back on the merry go round if I wanted too tomorrow. But I'm staying away, I'm protecting myself and I'm focusing on my healing journey. This dynamic is not the right one for my health and well being , and I think maybe my ex is better off just having short term stuff then he can stay in his fantasy that there is nothing wrong with him, he can have sex he doesn't have to put any real effort in , " There is nothing wrong with me", look I'm fine. No boils, no real anxiety no being aware he cant sustain intimacy or sex. I truly hope things work out for you my love xxx |
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Post by ik2020 on Feb 23, 2020 21:12:18 GMT
I sometimes feel that being an FA is like quantum theory... I both want and don't want people at the same time. Not very helpful I know... But the feeling makes about as much sense to me as it does to someone observing it from the outside!
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Why date?
Feb 23, 2020 21:20:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by Helsbells on Feb 23, 2020 21:20:15 GMT
I sometimes feel that being an FA is like quantum theory... I both want and don't want people at the same time. Not very helpful I know... But the feeling makes about as much sense to me as it does to someone observing it from the outside! That sounds devastating to me. Are you wanting to change this, if so what things are you doing so you dont have to go thru the rest of your life like this. |
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The person who initiates the most is in the more vulnerable position, putting themselves much more on the line. I read often that being pursued comforts an avoidant, but at the expense of their partner. But if you initiate things and frequently receive silence and rejection, it causes a lot of anxiety. Part of it is the intermittent reinforcement, the not knowing if ``this time'' you can have your connection (and other) needs met. Part of it is that when your own partner withdraws or ignores your bids for connection, it can feel like rejection and trigger you.