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Post by Dualcitizen on Mar 1, 2020 5:24:26 GMT
Update. Ex fa is in a full blown relationship with that other guy and seems genuinely happy and far more attached and openly loving and doting then she ever was with me. Not taking it personally and trying to put all that past behind me now. I just feel its confusing she's able to act so normal in love with someone else. And also in how coldly she disregarded me right before swinging back to him without second thought or what I'm assuming any remaining feelings. Because I highly doubt she has any remaining emotions tied to me. Makes me feel like I had no value to her at all. I'm not saying that's the case, just what it feels like from her actions. Kind of hurtful to see all of that and know it. But its better then getting dragged along anymore then I already did, and in the long run its better for me because it gives me the chance to eventually find someone who's a way better fit. Just to put things in perspective. My ex. has been dating someone 3 months or so, seems a lot more serious etc. Was a massive whirlwind start, meeting the parents within 3 weeks, and definitely seeing each other a lot more in person than I did. (Different scenario though, new guy has kids of his own, been through a divorce, I haven't done either, I live a drama free life as much as humanly possible, instigated by myself) I know the leadup to this where she stipulated literally she wants to be a total dependent (a "kept woman" basically), I would never ever accept this scenario personally, told her as much and said it must be "interdependence", each pulls their own weight or I'm out simple as that. On top of this her continued emotional dysregulation and more health issues (gastro twice in month spanning a week each basically, ongoing breast issue which is a benign cyst but causing massive pain, doctors can't pinpoint reason for pain, out of synch periods, one lasting 7 weeks, follow up 1.5-2 weeks etc). On top of still a couple "negative" overtone meme's sent about herself. Needless to say, she still does not love herself, nor is generally overall happy, and that alone will ensure problems, wont matter who she meets. You can't not love yourself genuinely inside and expect someone magically to fill a void. Every situation is different due to personality and attachment and the other variables like trauma background, 4F response etc. I just hope the guy isn't a covert Narc for her sake tbh, I just don't know what that would do to her this time around  . But the pain of change must be less than the pain of staying the same! And clearly that is still not the case. |
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Post by dhali on Mar 1, 2020 18:55:44 GMT
Dualcitizen- I preemptively apologize for being a bit judging, but what in the world were you doing with that woman!? She sounds like a mess from a mile away. You’re way too intelligent for this...
The picture you painted doesn’t inspire keeping a woman like this. Much less pine for her.
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Post by Dualcitizen on Mar 1, 2020 20:04:16 GMT
Dualcitizen- I preemptively apologize for being a bit judging, but what in the world were you doing with that woman!? She sounds like a mess from a mile away. You’re way too intelligent for this... The picture you painted doesn’t inspire keeping a woman like this. Much less pine for her. Not inspirational at all. Initially there were red flags, as I say I questioned it all, set boundaries, but it was the "health issues" that clouded my judgement, and kept me in the loop for like a sort of 5 month "push-pull" scenario after the breakup, the mutual friends we met through are very secure people as well, steer clear of drama types/simple folk that enjoy what they have in life, and that also played a part. Also first time I dated someone with children, and she used them as a distancing factor during the week. First time I've seen anything like it in my life, and that kept some doubt there at the time. I wasn't with her long, an actual 3 month relationship, then the 5 month push-pull scenario on the side. I'm here to merely give information to others, my experience, with what I've learnt and learn some more myself overall. It can just help others piece things together, with a slightly different scenario. I still keep in contact with her, as I genuinely feel for her with the parental abuse. You're more than entitled to ask, I'm posting here, so all good. And no there is no chance of a relationship with the woman, nor any "pining" these days, certainly was some excess emotions in that push-pull period that's for sure, very intense as well, never felt like that before, nor the sort of anxiety that sort of popped up, i'm early 40s. First noticeable "avoidant" I've ever dated. |
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Post by amber on Mar 1, 2020 22:02:01 GMT
Dualcitizen- I preemptively apologize for being a bit judging, but what in the world were you doing with that woman!? She sounds like a mess from a mile away. You’re way too intelligent for this... The picture you painted doesn’t inspire keeping a woman like this. Much less pine for her. Not inspirational at all. Initially there were red flags, as I say I questioned it all, set boundaries, but it was the "health issues" that clouded my judgement, and kept me in the loop for like a sort of 5 month "push-pull" scenario after the breakup, the mutual friends we met through are very secure people as well, steer clear of drama types/simple folk that enjoy what they have in life, and that also played a part. Also first time I dated someone with children, and she used them as a distancing factor during the week. First time I've seen anything like it in my life, and that kept some doubt there at the time. I wasn't with her long, an actual 3 month relationship, then the 5 month push-pull scenario on the side. I'm here to merely give information to others, my experience, with what I've learnt and learn some more myself overall. It can just help others piece things together, with a slightly different scenario. I still keep in contact with her, as I genuinely feel for her with the parental abuse. You're more than entitled to ask, I'm posting here, so all good. And no there is no chance of a relationship with the woman, nor any "pining" these days, certainly was some excess emotions in that push-pull period that's for sure, very intense as well, never felt like that before, nor the sort of anxiety that sort of popped up, i'm early 40s. First noticeable "avoidant" I've ever dated. I agree someone’s life circumstances can sometimes blind you from potential red flags; my ex stopped getting work at the same time as he began distancing from me, and told me this was because of stress and going insular during times of stress. Of course I believed him as this is a perfectly natural response under stress. It wasn’t until the r/ship ended that I realised he was pushing me away...I couldn’t have known this at the time, especially as he wasn’t honest about it/maybe didn’t know he was consciously doing this at the time |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Mar 1, 2020 22:49:47 GMT
Not inspirational at all. Initially there were red flags, as I say I questioned it all, set boundaries, but it was the "health issues" that clouded my judgement, and kept me in the loop for like a sort of 5 month "push-pull" scenario after the breakup, the mutual friends we met through are very secure people as well, steer clear of drama types/simple folk that enjoy what they have in life, and that also played a part. Also first time I dated someone with children, and she used them as a distancing factor during the week. First time I've seen anything like it in my life, and that kept some doubt there at the time. I wasn't with her long, an actual 3 month relationship, then the 5 month push-pull scenario on the side. I'm here to merely give information to others, my experience, with what I've learnt and learn some more myself overall. It can just help others piece things together, with a slightly different scenario. I still keep in contact with her, as I genuinely feel for her with the parental abuse. You're more than entitled to ask, I'm posting here, so all good. And no there is no chance of a relationship with the woman, nor any "pining" these days, certainly was some excess emotions in that push-pull period that's for sure, very intense as well, never felt like that before, nor the sort of anxiety that sort of popped up, i'm early 40s. First noticeable "avoidant" I've ever dated. I agree someone’s life circumstances can sometimes blind you from potential red flags; my ex stopped getting work at the same time as he began distancing from me, and told me this was because of stress and going insular during times of stress. Of course I believed him as this is a perfectly natural response under stress. It wasn’t until the r/ship ended that I realised he was pushing me away...I couldn’t have known this at the time, especially as he wasn’t honest about it/maybe didn’t know he was consciously doing this at the time Don't get me wrong, Dhali is right, why at all did I hang on for a bit (not like I was in a dysfunctional relationship for years accepting the behaviour). I'm not a black and white thinker, I think in shades of grey, hence the above and some leeway on something I hadn't experienced before. I've certainly learnt now, that's for sure. And I never accepted what I know now is "intermittent reinforcement", I never will. |
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Post by amber on Mar 2, 2020 1:12:47 GMT
I agree someone’s life circumstances can sometimes blind you from potential red flags; my ex stopped getting work at the same time as he began distancing from me, and told me this was because of stress and going insular during times of stress. Of course I believed him as this is a perfectly natural response under stress. It wasn’t until the r/ship ended that I realised he was pushing me away...I couldn’t have known this at the time, especially as he wasn’t honest about it/maybe didn’t know he was consciously doing this at the time Don't get me wrong, Dhali is right, why at all did I hang on for a bit (not like I was in a dysfunctional relationship for years accepting the behaviour). I'm not a black and white thinker, I think in shades of grey, hence the above and some leeway on something I hadn't experienced before. I've certainly learnt now, that's for sure. And I never accepted what I know now is "intermittent reinforcement", I never will. It’s great that you value yourself enough to not put up with poor behaviour...something I’m still learning to do |
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Post by serenity on Mar 2, 2020 5:00:56 GMT
Hugs Amber. Your breakup is so new, hon, I bet it hurts like crazy still sometimes. Of course you don't feel strong yet, but you will <3 . I know for me, how irrationally strong the bond felt too, with all the hot-cold and deactivation. Its kind of alarming to me how bonded you can feel, simply because love and communication is inconsistent. And it takes so looong for it all to fade properly.
Of all the breakup types with avoidants, I think the long slow fade over months , when you think they are just busy or going through tough times, is the most painful. Makes it easy for them, they checked out months ago, but much harder for you. I'm glad you called him on how dishonest it was, but I guess like you say, it was probably unconscious.
I know that `inconsistency' is now at the top of my red flag list. I never want to experience an intermittent reinforcement relationship again.
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Post by amber on Mar 2, 2020 5:30:53 GMT
Hugs Amber. Your breakup is so new, hon, I bet it hurts like crazy still sometimes. Of course you don't feel strong yet, but you will <3 . I know for me, how irrationally strong the bond felt too, with all the hot-cold and deactivation. Its kind of alarming to me how bonded you can feel, simply because love and communication is inconsistent. And it takes so looong for it all to fade properly. Of all the breakup types with avoidants, I think the long slow fade over months , when you think they are just busy or going through tough times, is the most painful. Makes it easy for them, they checked out months ago, but much harder for you. I'm glad you called him on how dishonest it was, but I guess like you say, it was probably unconscious. I know that `inconsistency' is now at the top of my red flag list. I never want to experience an intermittent reinforcement relationship again. Thanks serenity. Everyone keeps telling me it’s still early, I thought three months was a long time. Clearly not. I am dying a slow death with this, just when I think I’ve turned a corner and am getting over it, I get smacked like a freight train with intense desire to see him, reach out, try to get back together, or get him to see his issues. I’ve cried every day multiple tines now for theee weeks solid. Urgh. |
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Post by serenity on Mar 2, 2020 6:22:04 GMT
Thanks serenity. Everyone keeps telling me it’s still early, I thought three months was a long time. Clearly not. I am dying a slow death with this, just when I think I’ve turned a corner and am getting over it, I get smacked like a freight train with intense desire to see him, reach out, try to get back together, or get him to see his issues. I’ve cried every day multiple tines now for theee weeks solid. Urgh. If its hurting that bad, I can say that being on friendly terms can soften the blow a bit. Looking at it purely as an addiction, which I think intermittent reinforcement causes, some people need to taper. Some people can go cold turkey. The main potential harm in it is if you leave yourself vulnerable to a new cycle. Or if your feelings are still too raw to accept that they may have someone new in the picture. |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 2, 2020 6:23:01 GMT
Hugs Amber. Your breakup is so new, hon, I bet it hurts like crazy still sometimes. Of course you don't feel strong yet, but you will <3 . I know for me, how irrationally strong the bond felt too, with all the hot-cold and deactivation. Its kind of alarming to me how bonded you can feel, simply because love and communication is inconsistent. And it takes so looong for it all to fade properly. Of all the breakup types with avoidants, I think the long slow fade over months , when you think they are just busy or going through tough times, is the most painful. Makes it easy for them, they checked out months ago, but much harder for you. I'm glad you called him on how dishonest it was, but I guess like you say, it was probably unconscious. I know that `inconsistency' is now at the top of my red flag list. I never want to experience an intermittent reinforcement relationship again. Thanks serenity. Everyone keeps telling me it’s still early, I thought three months was a long time. Clearly not. I am dying a slow death with this, just when I think I’ve turned a corner and am getting over it, I get smacked like a freight train with intense desire to see him, reach out, try to get back together, or get him to see his issues. I’ve cried every day multiple tines now for theee weeks solid. Urgh. Amber..you are doing great...really....it has almost been 3 years for me and although I am in a much better place, I still have my moments. |
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Post by amber on Mar 2, 2020 7:08:34 GMT
Thanks serenity. Everyone keeps telling me it’s still early, I thought three months was a long time. Clearly not. I am dying a slow death with this, just when I think I’ve turned a corner and am getting over it, I get smacked like a freight train with intense desire to see him, reach out, try to get back together, or get him to see his issues. I’ve cried every day multiple tines now for theee weeks solid. Urgh. If its hurting that bad, I can say that being on friendly terms can soften the blow a bit. Looking at it purely as an addiction, which I think intermittent reinforcement causes, some people need to taper. Some people can go cold turkey. The main potential harm in it is if you leave yourself vulnerable to a new cycle. Or if your feelings are still too raw to accept that they may have someone new in the picture. Having contact would be way too triggering. It would Keep me in an unhealthy hopeful place, I know it. Better off no contact. The man can’t have attached r/ships with anyone; it’s good for me to remind myself of that, I was reflecting how much he struggled to communicate even with his eldest son and friends; when we go out socially with them, he would often sit there and barely say a word...I thought it was strange st the time but it makes sense now. His self esteem is so low. |
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Post by serenity on Mar 2, 2020 21:12:53 GMT
If its hurting that bad, I can say that being on friendly terms can soften the blow a bit. Looking at it purely as an addiction, which I think intermittent reinforcement causes, some people need to taper. Some people can go cold turkey. The main potential harm in it is if you leave yourself vulnerable to a new cycle. Or if your feelings are still too raw to accept that they may have someone new in the picture. Having contact would be way too triggering. It would Keep me in an unhealthy hopeful place, I know it. Better off no contact. The man can’t have attached r/ships with anyone; it’s good for me to remind myself of that, I was reflecting how much he struggled to communicate even with his eldest son and friends; when we go out socially with them, he would often sit there and barely say a word...I thought it was strange st the time but it makes sense now. His self esteem is so low. Yeah, its sad for them, they can't hold onto their `love' feelings with so much triggering going on inside of them. And without consistent access to their love feelings, their relationships become unhealthy and broken. At worse, abusive. I can relate to it only insofar as when I'm highly triggered, my mind is capable of demonizing as a defense. Much less so now, as I am aware of it and fight hard to hold onto a balanced view. But when I was very young, my love could switch to revulsion very swiftly when triggered. I try to imagine what it would be like, when normal intimacy is the trigger...how fighting the negativity and need to run to a safe place is a constant battle for them. How they still need love and relationships, but it makes them feel so awful when they have those things. Amber, just never blame yourself for any of it. It hurts like hell to have your lover say `I don't love you any more' but you've got to know, you are fully lovable and you didn't do anything wrong. His issues have been with him for a long time, and he won't change without seeking the proper help. |
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Post by iz42 on Mar 3, 2020 7:16:29 GMT
Update. Ex fa is in a full blown relationship with that other guy and seems genuinely happy and far more attached and openly loving and doting then she ever was with me. Not taking it personally and trying to put all that past behind me now. I just feel its confusing she's able to act so normal in love with someone else. And also in how coldly she disregarded me right before swinging back to him without second thought or what I'm assuming any remaining feelings. Because I highly doubt she has any remaining emotions tied to me. Makes me feel like I had no value to her at all. I'm not saying that's the case, just what it feels like from her actions. Kind of hurtful to see all of that and know it. But its better then getting dragged along anymore then I already did, and in the long run its better for me because it gives me the chance to eventually find someone who's a way better fit. On top of this her continued emotional dysregulation and more health issues (gastro twice in month spanning a week each basically, ongoing breast issue which is a benign cyst but causing massive pain, doctors can't pinpoint reason for pain, out of synch periods, one lasting 7 weeks, follow up 1.5-2 weeks etc). On top of still a couple "negative" overtone meme's sent about herself. Needless to say, she still does not love herself, nor is generally overall happy, and that alone will ensure problems, wont matter who she meets. You can't not love yourself genuinely inside and expect someone magically to fill a void. i will probably regret saying this, but it sounds like you're assuming a lot about her health issues. I know in the past you've said they were psychosomatic. It just seems hard to know. There is a long history of women's chronic illness being dismissed by male doctors and many illnesses that affect women have not been well-researched. So "doctors can't pinpoint reason for her pain" doesn't mean she's making it up. I'm not FA but I do have some health issues and I would like to think that a potential partner wouldn't write me off because of them. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Mar 3, 2020 7:20:55 GMT
On top of this her continued emotional dysregulation and more health issues (gastro twice in month spanning a week each basically, ongoing breast issue which is a benign cyst but causing massive pain, doctors can't pinpoint reason for pain, out of synch periods, one lasting 7 weeks, follow up 1.5-2 weeks etc). On top of still a couple "negative" overtone meme's sent about herself. Needless to say, she still does not love herself, nor is generally overall happy, and that alone will ensure problems, wont matter who she meets. You can't not love yourself genuinely inside and expect someone magically to fill a void. i will probably regret saying this, but it sounds like you're assuming a lot about her health issues. I know in the past you've said they were psychosomatic. It just seems hard to know. There is a long history of women's chronic illness being dismissed by male doctors and many illnesses that affect women have not been well-researched. So "doctors can't pinpoint reason for her pain" doesn't mean she's making it up. I'm not FA but I do have some health issues and I would like to think that a potential partner wouldn't write me off because of them. No good call, and there is an element of assuming, my bad, and it may come across as me being a "know all", which I am not. I just found it tremendously uncanny is all, I'm probably really trying to say, and my language is incorrect. Good call iz, i'll be more careful to be honest how I phrase things. |
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Post by anne12 on Mar 3, 2020 8:14:39 GMT
Having health issues and being told nothing is wrong can be traumatising in itself.... Getting second opinions can sometimes be helpfull And bringing a person who you feel safe with and learning some somatic skills that can help you to feel safe in the situation is also recommended. And being sure that you are not being examined by a doctor who supports Per Fink's way of thinking (functional disorders). www.meaction.net/2018/10/25/meaction-protests-per-fink-at-columbia-university-heres-what-happened/ |
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. But the pain of change must be less than the pain of staying the same! And clearly that is still not the case. 
