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Post by dotdotdot on Feb 22, 2020 20:43:51 GMT
I recently had my first experience with a FA which left me completely dazed. What concerned me about my FA the most is their inability to fully empathise with the experience of another, probably because FAs are way too self absorbed to step out and accept another as a full package of external and internal attributes. They just can't see the full picture of you and respond appropriately because they feel too much, get overwhelmed easily and don't have a logical rationale for their actions (FA own words). It was almost like the person is living on auto pilot, emotionally. Things are being said, promises made, apologies given for the sake of making you feel good and like them, but does it ever lead anywhere substantial? They've learned somewhere sometime before they met you what works and what doesn't in different social situations, but you as their new found source of self esteem will have no suspicion that this is all a facade to keep them safe. I imagine this makes them well liked as colleagues and acquaintances, and because they are able to disengage emotionally from everyone for long periods of time, you will soon learn of their many skills and talents which they've acquired in life. You will be impressed, without knowing at what cost those skills were developed. This also applies to DAs that I know. But as a lover, as a friend you are going to want to build a level of intimacy and you are gonna fail furiously, unless you are self absorbed yourself (I suspect FAs often fall in love with DAs). I test secure, but I have needs that this FA not only couldn't meet, but also couldn't understand, yet they persisted reaching out and then disappearing when it suits them. Eventually I had just enough of this ambiguity, told them I will be their friend regardless how often we chat but the FA reacted by removing me from all their social media accounts.  As much as I liked and felt for the FA, now that they are gone for good I feel so much calmer than when I was in this pseudo-friendship with them. |
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Feb 22, 2020 22:20:56 GMT
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Post by dhali on Feb 22, 2020 22:20:56 GMT
The outlook generally isn’t good. That’s for sure.
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Feb 22, 2020 23:15:12 GMT
Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 22, 2020 23:15:12 GMT
I recently had my first experience with a FA which left me completely dazed. What concerned me about my FA the most is their inability to fully empathise with the experience of another, probably because FAs are way too self absorbed to step out and accept another as a full package of external and internal attributes. They just can't see the full picture of you and respond appropriately because they feel too much, get overwhelmed easily and don't have a logical rationale for their actions (FA own words). It was almost like the person is living on auto pilot, emotionally. Things are being said, promises made, apologies given for the sake of making you feel good and like them, but does it ever lead anywhere substantial? They've learned somewhere sometime before they met you what works and what doesn't in different social situations, but you as their new found source of self esteem will have no suspicion that this is all a facade to keep them safe. I imagine this makes them well liked as colleagues and acquaintances, and because they are able to disengage emotionally from everyone for long periods of time, you will soon learn of their many skills and talents which they've acquired in life. You will be impressed, without knowing at what cost those skills were developed. This also applies to DAs that I know. But as a lover, as a friend you are going to want to build a level of intimacy and you are gonna fail furiously, unless you are self absorbed yourself (I suspect FAs often fall in love with DAs). I test secure, but I have needs that this FA not only couldn't meet, but also couldn't understand, yet they persisted reaching out and then disappearing when it suits them. Eventually I had just enough of this ambiguity, told them I will be their friend regardless how often we chat but the FA reacted by removing me from all their social media accounts. As much as I liked and felt for the FA, now that they are gone for good I feel so much calmer than when I was in this pseudo-friendship with them. I know ya pain. If it's fresh can understand a bit of frustration (even anger) if you've been push-pulled. If you don't mind sharing what was the length and a few other details of the relationship? Was it a whirlwind start? Ok for a few months then pull away? What was frequency of seeing one another (and sex/intimacy etc) Certainly from my experience, the "real" communication is actually low, a LOT of assumptions. Totally ties in to the low self esteem, and the enmeshment with caregiver/parent, which would include filling the "hole in the heart" and a perceived role in the relationship (Fantasy bond/codependency) which will never ever happen as nothing in life is perfect. "You're responsible for the way I feel, and I'm responsible for the way you feel" (along with the physical and emotional abuse an F-A clearly suffered). My F-A only released what she was truly saying internally to herself basically when she pulled away, there was low self esteem commentary, but the plethora of excuses, misconceived assumptions from the negative critical inner voice is something that cannot be overcome no matter the reassurance I found. As Dhali said in the other thread, the default neural pathway is "you’re getting fucked", in the F-A's own mind. So in lieu of that, it makes it very difficult and i'm sure he/she is trying their best, mine certainly did and I acknowledged that with her and she appreciated it, after the fact, after she apologised to me for pulling away etc. The blocking is interesting, you didn't lash out at all? As my F-A was very much open to contacting, but I was the one who set the boundaries, she would have gleefully push-pulled me even harder, but I actually had chunks of no contact due to my boundary setting (6-7 week spans), she was contacting me weekly, telling me we were getting back together all the time. Just too hurtful and confusing at the time. And certainly it does come across as "game playing" that's how I took it not knowing nor seeing anything like it before in my life and was 41-42 at the time. |
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Feb 23, 2020 10:54:50 GMT
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Post by Helsbells on Feb 23, 2020 10:54:50 GMT
I recently had my first experience with a FA which left me completely dazed. What concerned me about my FA the most is their inability to fully empathise with the experience of another, probably because FAs are way too self absorbed to step out and accept another as a full package of external and internal attributes. They just can't see the full picture of you and respond appropriately because they feel too much, get overwhelmed easily and don't have a logical rationale for their actions (FA own words). It was almost like the person is living on auto pilot, emotionally. Things are being said, promises made, apologies given for the sake of making you feel good and like them, but does it ever lead anywhere substantial? They've learned somewhere sometime before they met you what works and what doesn't in different social situations, but you as their new found source of self esteem will have no suspicion that this is all a facade to keep them safe. I imagine this makes them well liked as colleagues and acquaintances, and because they are able to disengage emotionally from everyone for long periods of time, you will soon learn of their many skills and talents which they've acquired in life. You will be impressed, without knowing at what cost those skills were developed. This also applies to DAs that I know. But as a lover, as a friend you are going to want to build a level of intimacy and you are gonna fail furiously, unless you are self absorbed yourself (I suspect FAs often fall in love with DAs). I test secure, but I have needs that this FA not only couldn't meet, but also couldn't understand, yet they persisted reaching out and then disappearing when it suits them. Eventually I had just enough of this ambiguity, told them I will be their friend regardless how often we chat but the FA reacted by removing me from all their social media accounts. As much as I liked and felt for the FA, now that they are gone for good I feel so much calmer than when I was in this pseudo-friendship with them. I was nodding my head with every single word you wrote. Keep ranting as you are in good company and this stuff needs to come out as it is head wrecking stuff. Throw in alchol abuse, and a go to woman who is always and I mean always waiting in the wings to be picked up and dropped when hes lonely and needing validation. These relationships are very hurtful if not intentionally done, none the less, they are a head wreck. Take care x |
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Feb 23, 2020 11:06:28 GMT
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Post by amber on Feb 23, 2020 11:06:28 GMT
I recently had my first experience with a FA which left me completely dazed. What concerned me about my FA the most is their inability to fully empathise with the experience of another, probably because FAs are way too self absorbed to step out and accept another as a full package of external and internal attributes. They just can't see the full picture of you and respond appropriately because they feel too much, get overwhelmed easily and don't have a logical rationale for their actions (FA own words). It was almost like the person is living on auto pilot, emotionally. Things are being said, promises made, apologies given for the sake of making you feel good and like them, but does it ever lead anywhere substantial? They've learned somewhere sometime before they met you what works and what doesn't in different social situations, but you as their new found source of self esteem will have no suspicion that this is all a facade to keep them safe. I imagine this makes them well liked as colleagues and acquaintances, and because they are able to disengage emotionally from everyone for long periods of time, you will soon learn of their many skills and talents which they've acquired in life. You will be impressed, without knowing at what cost those skills were developed. This also applies to DAs that I know. But as a lover, as a friend you are going to want to build a level of intimacy and you are gonna fail furiously, unless you are self absorbed yourself (I suspect FAs often fall in love with DAs). I test secure, but I have needs that this FA not only couldn't meet, but also couldn't understand, yet they persisted reaching out and then disappearing when it suits them. Eventually I had just enough of this ambiguity, told them I will be their friend regardless how often we chat but the FA reacted by removing me from all their social media accounts. As much as I liked and felt for the FA, now that they are gone for good I feel so much calmer than when I was in this pseudo-friendship with them. This was my experience with my ex FA. There’s a whole lotta lip service and not much action.i think there’s some classic FA traits such as people pleasing and lack of sense of self so they tend to go along with what they think others want/ need etc. this can be quite damaging to a r/ship as it erodes trust quite badly. It feels like lying by omission of truth. Underneath this those there’s a paralysis due to extreme fear and most likely they were punished as children for having needs and expressing feelings and desires. They are very muhc conflict avoidant but I dont think this is intentional at all |
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Post by stu on Feb 23, 2020 11:26:17 GMT
I recently had my first experience with a FA which left me completely dazed. What concerned me about my FA the most is their inability to fully empathise with the experience of another, probably because FAs are way too self absorbed to step out and accept another as a full package of external and internal attributes. They just can't see the full picture of you and respond appropriately because they feel too much, get overwhelmed easily and don't have a logical rationale for their actions (FA own words). It was almost like the person is living on auto pilot, emotionally. Things are being said, promises made, apologies given for the sake of making you feel good and like them, but does it ever lead anywhere substantial? They've learned somewhere sometime before they met you what works and what doesn't in different social situations, but you as their new found source of self esteem will have no suspicion that this is all a facade to keep them safe. I imagine this makes them well liked as colleagues and acquaintances, and because they are able to disengage emotionally from everyone for long periods of time, you will soon learn of their many skills and talents which they've acquired in life. You will be impressed, without knowing at what cost those skills were developed. This also applies to DAs that I know. But as a lover, as a friend you are going to want to build a level of intimacy and you are gonna fail furiously, unless you are self absorbed yourself (I suspect FAs often fall in love with DAs). I test secure, but I have needs that this FA not only couldn't meet, but also couldn't understand, yet they persisted reaching out and then disappearing when it suits them. Eventually I had just enough of this ambiguity, told them I will be their friend regardless how often we chat but the FA reacted by removing me from all their social media accounts. As much as I liked and felt for the FA, now that they are gone for good I feel so much calmer than when I was in this pseudo-friendship with them. One of the most frustrating things when I dated a fearful avoidant was how they see you in such a fractured way because of their own unresolved issues. Having them deactivate and tell themselves how you are so clingy and emotional, acted revolted,etc All nothing to do with you and as if all you have been and done for them is suddenly erased by their current negative perception of you. It never feels like they fully appreciate you for everything you are, or are able to see you for all that you are. You feel torn down and like you can never be good enough. Because the reality is no one is good enough for them and that's the easiest thing their mind can tell themselves to keep them safe. Safe from ever having to experience true vulnerability or intimacy. |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 23, 2020 11:42:43 GMT
So for me...it felt like everything was possible and nothing was possible all at the same time.....some of it was my hope...but my hope was not activated in a silo. There were actions or statements that made me feel very much like he and I were progressing forward...but equally there were actions and words expressing doubt. The shift from half in to half out was so palatable...like a door being slammed with him on the other side...and yet, it seemed possible for that state to shift again.
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Post by Helsbells on Feb 23, 2020 12:07:41 GMT
The more I understand about how much Fear is in the fearful avoidant i can truly see how unsustainable the relationship was.
I squashed down my need for sex " he new as sensed that in my body".
I started to become more detached from him and never acted needed like in the early days. " he new and sensed the change.
When I was on a late shift and arrived home tired, he would want me to get straight into bed like in the beginning. I chose to unwind alone with a glass of wine, he was so vigilant and would take it personal, he would constantly ask me was ok, and what's wrong. I would say nothing just relaxing after work but then he wouldn't be able to sleep and would be restless all night.
His body broke out in boils so bad I've never seen anything like it.
I now realise he new I wasnt getting what I needed, he new he was giving as much as he was able too, his fear became so great he had no choose but go, before he got hurt again. He was so hyper sensitive to any change in my behaviour, I could see panic in his face. Unable to discuss anything in depth he would rather run away than have that conversation, so I stuffed down all my emotions wants and needs for my own fear of him leaving me was so great. So very very sad for all involved.
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Post by dotdotdot on Feb 23, 2020 20:52:35 GMT
dotdotdot I was nodding my head with every single word you wrote. Keep ranting as you are in good company and this stuff needs to come out as it is head wrecking stuff. Throw in alchol abuse, and a go to woman who is always and I mean always waiting in the wings to be picked up and dropped when hes lonely and needing validation. These relationships are very hurtful if not intentionally done, none the less, they are a head wreck. Take care x Mine used drugs and had others around who were infatuated with them... |
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Feb 23, 2020 21:26:09 GMT
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Post by Helsbells on Feb 23, 2020 21:26:09 GMT
dotdotdot I was nodding my head with every single word you wrote. Keep ranting as you are in good company and this stuff needs to come out as it is head wrecking stuff. Throw in alchol abuse, and a go to woman who is always and I mean always waiting in the wings to be picked up and dropped when hes lonely and needing validation. These rel⁵ationships are very hurtful if not intentionally done, none the less, they are a head wreck. Take care x Mine used drugs and had others around who were infatuated with them... Gosh, that appears to be a common thread with this attachment from stuff I've read. I am doing everything it takes, mainly self love affirmations to stay well clear off being drawn back in by my own attachment wounds. How long where you together, what was the sex like? Not the details but did the sex die off after a while? |
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Post by amber on Feb 23, 2020 21:31:50 GMT
i just read this from a paper by Bessel van der kolk, the well known trauma expert. i thought this sums up FA nicely, even though he isnt talking specifically about FA:
"if the caregiver is rejecting and abusive, children are likely to become hyperaroused. when the persons who are supposed to be the sources of safety and nurturance become simultaenously the sources of danger against which protection is needed, children manevour to re-establish some sense of safety. instead of turning on their caregivers and thereby losing hope for protection, they blame themselves. they become fearfully and hungrily attached and anxiously obedient. Bowlby calls this 'a pattern of behaviour in which avoidance of them competes with his desire for proximity and care and in which angry behavour is apt to become prominent"..... explains the push/pull behaviour of FA! wanting connection but fearing it at the same time
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Feb 23, 2020 21:44:36 GMT
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Post by stu on Feb 23, 2020 21:44:36 GMT
dotdotdot I was nodding my head with every single word you wrote. Keep ranting as you are in good company and this stuff needs to come out as it is head wrecking stuff. Throw in alchol abuse, and a go to woman who is always and I mean always waiting in the wings to be picked up and dropped when hes lonely and needing validation. These relationships are very hurtful if not intentionally done, none the less, they are a head wreck. Take care x Mine used drugs and had others around who were infatuated with them... Same with the infatuation thing, I think for some fas and Insecurily attached people. They want a safety net of people as other sources of validation and attention, or sometimes a back burner lover or interest, etc. The biggest thing though is you don't want to be dating someone with an active addiction issue. That is one of the hardest things you can ever deal with in a relationship aside from any other issues. Drugs and alcohol abuse do nothing but destroy people's lives and hurt everyone all around them. |
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Post by amber on Feb 23, 2020 21:49:09 GMT
The interesting thing about addiction to alcohol specifically is that you don’t have to be drinking what most people would consider a lot to be an alcoholic, or a functioning alcoholic anyway. I work with a nurse who has worked in drug and alcohol detox and rehab centres for over 30 years, and I asked her how much alcohol consumption would be considered problematic/ classed as an addiction...she said if you can’t go a week without alcohol, or you drink more than two drinks a day more days in the week than not, you most likely have an addiction. Pretty scary considering how widespread alcohol consumption is, and accepted by society as being normal, at least where I am in Australia anyway!
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Feb 23, 2020 21:55:25 GMT
Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 23, 2020 21:55:25 GMT
The interesting thing about addiction to alcohol specifically is that you don’t have to be drinking what most people would consider a lot to be an alcoholic, or a functioning alcoholic anyway. I work with a nurse who has worked in drug and alcohol detox and rehab centres for over 30 years, and I asked her how much alcohol consumption would be considered problematic/ classed as an addiction...she said if you can’t go a week without alcohol, or you drink more than two drinks a day more days in the week than not, you most likely have an addiction. Pretty scary considering how widespread alcohol consumption is, and accepted by society as being normal, at least where I am in Australia anyway! Yeah mine I found out near the end of the relationship, she admitted she "only drank 4-5 wines a night, 4-5 nights a week", like almost a bottle of wine a night in effect. And tbh I also noticed a LOT of prescription painkillers etc used, again "seemingly" linked to the psychosomatic symptoms and hypochondria. |
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Post by dhali on Feb 23, 2020 21:55:52 GMT
It’s not so different than Stockholm syndrome. If we grew up not being able to be who we are, and that having feels and emotions that are Not desireable are punished psychologically and physically, you stop having a healthy relationship to your emotions. And can’t even trust them. Only happiness. Which is never really genuine because, again, you don’t have the right to your own emotions.
That doesn’t make bad behavior ok, not at all. But it also doesn’t make this a person you can reasonably expect them to view the world like you do. Much less demand it. Or have the audacity to think you’re the panacea for. Or that just telling them will fix it. Or that you’re telling someone they are broken so that YOU can feel better. Or that you know better. You’re fighting a whole lifetime of neural pathways being established. I get you’re frustrated. Maybe your ex is too? With life. And as much as you want this to be about you, it is not.
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