|
Post by confusednyc on Apr 14, 2020 16:27:44 GMT
Hi Everyone, I am struggling today. Here are my days since ending it with my FA partner. I even feel weird saying "partner" as it was a pseudo, ill-defined "situationship" as they say. Friday night (when he left in anger): Tears, tears, tears. Saturday: Tears. Mostly stayed in bed. Sunday: Felt okay. Still mopey, but a slight sense of relief. Thanks a large part to you all! Monday: Same as Sunday. Tuesday: Not good at all. Here is the tape that is playing in my mind. Perhaps you all could help... 1) I am feeling REGRET. Maybe I should have just been more patient. I've never been one to feel the need to define a relationship and they just evolved organically; however, with him, he kept making a point of saying "we're friends for now" and it would upset me, because we were crossing physical lines (though not sex anymore) that are clearly not just friendly. I felt he was just saying that to make himself feel at ease and also to remove him from any of the responsibility of showing up for me as a partner should. I keep wondering if I had just let it go on as he felt comfortable and just spending once a week together he would have eventually come around and spent more time, felt safe, etc. 2) I am feeling GUILT for some of the things I said to him our last night that clearly triggered him. Some seem kind of mean looking back -- hurt people hurt people and I was hurt. I asked him why he even pursued me so strongly if he knew he wasn't ready. I asked him why he kept fighting for me and telling me not to give up when I tried to leave before... I told him he was so convincing that he wanted to be with me and so I will always be confused. That was the last straw when he stormed out saying I was making him feel like a terrible person and he was uncomfortable. 3) I am feeling ANGRY at him, but mostly myself for believing him and allowing it to go on.. I look back at how he came on so strong and then he would always pull away and then give me an excuse about how it wouldn't work. He was too poor. He didn't have a license. He had nothing to offer. I still lived with my ex (fair enough).... and so on. As soon as I reassured him that I didn't care about money, etc., or when my ex finally moved out, he would feel at ease for a minute but then reverted. And nothing changed. He told me when my ex moved out, he'd come around all the time to check on me, visit, spend time just as he did with his friends. Well, that NEVER happened. And it hurt because I would see him hanging out on the porch with the neighbors all day and never would he do that with me. He's always checking on them, seeing what they need. I know he's not a manipulative person, but still. 4) I feel HURT. It was many years ago since he's dated at all, but I take it personally that he was in relationships with an addict, a cheater and an abusive woman, but he not me. One of the "mean" things I said the last night was when he said I was wonderful and perfect and I responded, "Maybe that's the problem. Maybe if I were abusive or yelled at you or threw things or cheated on you or was an addict like all your friends, you would want to be with me." But it's true. ALL of this "friends" are full-blown alcoholics and addicts and they have all betrayed him in some way or another and he goes back for more. He constantly says he needs to stop being around them, but he never stops. He once told me it makes him feel better about himself because at least he's not that messed up. 5) I feel SAD. Looking back honestly, I can see how little I settled for, allowing him to give me so little and naively believing he would come around. I should have known better. Signs were there early on. And he was open about his depression and anxiety and struggles and there were no signs of real change. Lots of awareness, which I held onto, but not real indicators of change after the first few months where I guess he was trying to impress me. His house and yard are back to being in shambles. 6) I feel CONFUSION. It was all so inconsistent. Some times, he would be so vulnerable and reach out to me when "crisis" hit. Other times, he would seek out his "friends" or avoid me. So unlike it seems lots of FAs, he was able to cry and be vulnerable and open with me. Sorry for the rant. I'm just feeling regret on my decision and also anger and hurt. I WILL NOT reach out to him. After the first few months, I've always been good and strong about that, but it hurts. I see him drive by throughout the day and I imagine he's relieved and it's life as usual for him and he is feeling nothing that I am feeling. And, of course, I do want to hear from him, even if I am resolute in not seeing him until the summer ends.
|
|
|
Post by serenity on Apr 14, 2020 19:16:24 GMT
Hugs confusednyc, I'm so sorry for your pain and distress today..Sending you tons and tons of love <3
I don't know if this helps, but it helped me a lot to recognise that the pain will end. What you are experiencing is traumatic pain, hon. It will wash over you making you feel weak to your knees, and have you crying in fits. You will feel so much love and rage and agonising grief. Your mind will play tricks on you, frequently making you want to reach out, and second guess yourself.
The peak of this agony for most anxious leaning AP's or FA's is around 3-4 weeks, then you will turn a corner. Just know that you will, hon. Your mind will start to come out of the fog, and you know its true because you have survived this before, when you left your ex. Just hang in there? I promise you, you will survive it.
Regarding being strung along, I really feel you there. My ex kept me hooked with his vulnerability, and a lot of statements thanking me for being so patient, and saying he just needed me to give him more time. But the closer and more intimate we became, the more he would fall back on the awful distancing strategies. I think its important to recognise that the only thing that could have made him accept closeness in a healthy way would be him dealing with his issues. Patience and love and waiting meant that he got what he needed, and you didn't.
Stay strong. Its good that you know not to reach out. We're here for you .
|
|
|
Post by confusednyc on Apr 16, 2020 19:07:27 GMT
Hugs confusednyc, I'm so sorry for your pain and distress today..Sending you tons and tons of love <3 I don't know if this helps, but it helped me a lot to recognise that the pain will end. What you are experiencing is traumatic pain, hon. It will wash over you making you feel weak to your knees, and have you crying in fits. You will feel so much love and rage and agonising grief. Your mind will play tricks on you, frequently making you want to reach out, and second guess yourself. The peak of this agony for most anxious leaning AP's or FA's is around 3-4 weeks, then you will turn a corner. Just know that you will, hon. Your mind will start to come out of the fog, and you know its true because you have survived this before, when you left your ex. Just hang in there? I promise you, you will survive it. Regarding being strung along, I really feel you there. My ex kept me hooked with his vulnerability, and a lot of statements thanking me for being so patient, and saying he just needed me to give him more time. But the closer and more intimate we became, the more he would fall back on the awful distancing strategies. I think its important to recognise that the only thing that could have made him accept closeness in a healthy way would be him dealing with his issues. Patience and love and waiting meant that he got what he needed, and you didn't. Stay strong. Its good that you know not to reach out. We're here for you . serenity, thank you, one again, for being so comforting. All your words helped me, but the most helpful was the reminder that "the only thing that could have made him accept closeness in a healthy way would be him dealing with his issues." So, today, I felt significantly better. I say this while recognizing that the process won't necessarily be linear and, as serenity mentioned, often the peak of it all might be around 3-4 weeks. Anyway, I was feeling much more functional. I was outside in my yard, filming my dogs, and I didn't run inside when I heard him on his way to drive by. This is huge for me. Now, my yard is large and far enough from the shared road where you can't read expressions and such, but still... Whenever I would hear his truck start up (yes, we are that close by), I would head inside to avoid the pain. Today, I just kept on keeping on with my dogs. It was huge for me. I felt a little sad, because in the past, he has ignored my requests and would honk... Today, nothing. Be careful what you wish for, huh? BUT HERE IS THE LATEST ISSUE THAT I AM STRUGGLING WITH: I told a friend that he would resurface when he needed something, because he is really struggling and I am honestly (and by his own admission) the only solid, reliable person in his life. As I state before, he chooses to hang around with literal drug addicts and alcoholics... grown men who live at home and live off their parents. He described them as "liars and thieves" and there is constant drama and betrayals and he keeps saying he needs to cut them off and he will for a week or month, but always goes back. Now part of it is their lifestyles are unaligned with his Christianity and he admits he smokes and drinks and curses when around them and feels shame and regret after. Side note: I have asked him why he has a hard line in the sand about physical intimacy with me due to his faith, but not other aspects of his life. He has no convincing answer, but all of us on this board knows him not being physically intimate with me has only a small part to do with his faith. Anyway, he has a 15 year old daughter. And I told her awhile back that as long as it was okay with her Dad, if she ever needed anything, I would be there for her, regardless of what was going on between her Dad and me. He was supportive of this, as he goes on about how I'm a good role model for her. He's right, except probably not in choosing men. LOL! Anyway, I have helped her with so many things... things her parents should be doing: applying and getting into a private school (her dream!), getting her driver's permit, getting a copy of her birth certificate, etc. Her Mom is an addict who lives in another state and comes and goes in her life depending on if she's clean. And her Dad just struggles with mental health issues and money, but I am beginning to also think he's just immature and chooses to spend all his time hanging out with unsavory friends instead of being responsible for his own life and his daughter's. She texts me today and tells me she has a child support check from her Mom, but she has no way of cashing it. She said they really needed the money. It's written out to her Dad and supposedly he endorsed it and left it up to her. She has a penchant for distorting the truth, so... Anyway, her Dad doesn't have a bank account because he owes the bank money. She says they desperately need the money and could I put the check in my account and advance them a portion of it. My instinct is to just help. That's what I do, especially with children and animals. But I delete my text and tell her I'll call her in a bit. I reflect. Call a friend. He tells me to tell them to leave me the f8@k alone and figure it out themselves. In the past, they always come to me when there's a "crisis." When he had to go to the ER, he calls me (we weren't talking at the time). When he got into an altercation with his alcoholic friends and had to walk home, he called me at 3am for a ride (we had just started talking again by text after another break when this happened!). Fortunately, my phone was on DND. Countless more examples. He seems to count on me for tangible help, but when he's upset, like when his dog died and when his daughter got expelled, he went to the alcoholic neighbor's home and avoided me for days. He texted me the news immediately, but wouldn't talk to me when I called or texted. I know he drinks and smokes to cope with the incidents and so I am sure that's part of the reason he ends up at the neighbor's home (he doesn't keep substances in his own home and I don’t drink or smoke )... So part of me feels glad they know I am solid and reliable and even when we are not talking, he feels safe enough to reach out. And I do NOT think he is a user. If anything, he is so opposed to accepting help or kindness of any kind from me... but when it's something "major," he somehow can call on me. BUT still, I feel a little used. I want to be like, "Why don't you ask one of your friends whom you give all your time to and show up for instead of asking me whom you do not show up for?" Of course, I NEVER say that. It hurts. Anyway, I felt it was inappropriate for her Dad to ask her to ask me. She claims he didn't have anything to do with it. She could be lying, but he also inappropriately relies on her to handle grown-up things. Don't get me started on their enmeshment -- that's another forum. LOL. So, I said "No" and I feel awful. I simply told her, "I don't think I can help you this time" and intended to leave it at that. And there was radio silence. I had never said "No" to them in their time of need and so she was shocked. I know I don't have to explain myself, but she wanted to understand. I explained to her that I would always help with things that I felt were appropriate to help with and that they couldn't do on their own, but this was something I felt her Dad could handle and that it's better that they figure out a long-term solution to this anyway. I gave her some suggestions about check cashing places and banks. I think she was so surprised and hurt that I'm not sure she understood. She kept saying this had nothing to do with her Dad and he told her to handle it. She got a little manipulative and said she was just going to give the money back to her Mom. I told her it was her decision to make, but too not be rash and consider the solutions I offered. I feel awful. I am trying to figure out boundaries with his daughter. Part of me regrets telling them my relationship with her would remain, because I don't know if I'm strong enough right now. I try to be acutely aware of myself when with her or speaking with her, but I feel like the potential and temptation of triangulation is always there. The other part of me feels like the right (and natural for me) thing to do is to NOT just disappear from her life. We have a connection and she has no one solid in her life. Her parents have let her down and disappointed her time and time again. I have no kids and so helping her with school or getting her permit or whatever is easy for me. I know all the ins and outs as I had to do a lot of that myself. I am second guessing my handling of the check, but I do think I would only be enabling if I just handed over the money. It's something her Dad could do on his own right? It's not rocket science. Her Dad does not sort his stuff and then it comes back to haunt him. And I asked why the money was so urgent and it was as suspected, she just wanted her phone turned on. She's addicted to social media. That, to me, did not warrant an emergency. If they had no food or electricity or needed medications, I would have helped. I've done that for my elderly neighbor. I will pick up her meds or pay an electric bill... Is it possible for me to be there for this young lady and move on? I am telling myself it is, if I start putting up boundaries like I just did. I just want to be careful that the boundaries are from a sincere, healthy place and not out of spite or hurt. Lastly, I find it confusing that he will come to me in these extreme moments of vulnerability (like when he had to go to the ER -- he could have called an ambulance) but he also struggles with being vulnerable in an everyday sense. What is that about? I seriously predicted he would come to me whenever he had an issue like this or when his "friends" betray him again. Like I said, I know he doesn't use people, but then again, I think there is a small subconscious part of him that is still using me in the sense that he will rely on me but not reciprocate even as a friend. Of course the timing was great. As soon as I feel like it's my first day closer to on-track, this happens...
|
|
|
Post by nyc718 on Apr 17, 2020 1:20:42 GMT
Hugs confusednyc, I'm so sorry for your pain and distress today..Sending you tons and tons of love <3 I don't know if this helps, but it helped me a lot to recognise that the pain will end. What you are experiencing is traumatic pain, hon. It will wash over you making you feel weak to your knees, and have you crying in fits. You will feel so much love and rage and agonising grief. Your mind will play tricks on you, frequently making you want to reach out, and second guess yourself. The peak of this agony for most anxious leaning AP's or FA's is around 3-4 weeks, then you will turn a corner. Just know that you will, hon. Your mind will start to come out of the fog, and you know its true because you have survived this before, when you left your ex. Just hang in there? I promise you, you will survive it. Regarding being strung along, I really feel you there. My ex kept me hooked with his vulnerability, and a lot of statements thanking me for being so patient, and saying he just needed me to give him more time. But the closer and more intimate we became, the more he would fall back on the awful distancing strategies. I think its important to recognise that the only thing that could have made him accept closeness in a healthy way would be him dealing with his issues. Patience and love and waiting meant that he got what he needed, and you didn't. Stay strong. Its good that you know not to reach out. We're here for you . serenity, thank you, one again, for being so comforting. All your words helped me, but the most helpful was the reminder that "the only thing that could have made him accept closeness in a healthy way would be him dealing with his issues." So, today, I felt significantly better. I say this while recognizing that the process won't necessarily be linear and, as serenity mentioned, often the peak of it all might be around 3-4 weeks. Anyway, I was feeling much more functional. I was outside in my yard, filming my dogs, and I didn't run inside when I heard him on his way to drive by. This is huge for me. Now, my yard is large and far enough from the shared road where you can't read expressions and such, but still... Whenever I would hear his truck start up (yes, we are that close by), I would head inside to avoid the pain. Today, I just kept on keeping on with my dogs. It was huge for me. I felt a little sad, because in the past, he has ignored my requests and would honk... Today, nothing. Be careful what you wish for, huh? BUT HERE IS THE LATEST ISSUE THAT I AM STRUGGLING WITH: I told a friend that he would resurface when he needed something, because he is really struggling and I am honestly (and by his own admission) the only solid, reliable person in his life. As I state before, he chooses to hang around with literal drug addicts and alcoholics... grown men who live at home and live off their parents. He described them as "liars and thieves" and there is constant drama and betrayals and he keeps saying he needs to cut them off and he will for a week or month, but always goes back. Now part of it is their lifestyles are unaligned with his Christianity and he admits he smokes and drinks and curses when around them and feels shame and regret after. Side note: I have asked him why he has a hard line in the sand about physical intimacy with me due to his faith, but not other aspects of his life. He has no convincing answer, but all of us on this board knows him not being physically intimate with me has only a small part to do with his faith. Anyway, he has a 15 year old daughter. And I told her awhile back that as long as it was okay with her Dad, if she ever needed anything, I would be there for her, regardless of what was going on between her Dad and me. He was supportive of this, as he goes on about how I'm a good role model for her. He's right, except probably not in choosing men. LOL! Anyway, I have helped her with so many things... things her parents should be doing: applying and getting into a private school (her dream!), getting her driver's permit, getting a copy of her birth certificate, etc. Her Mom is an addict who lives in another state and comes and goes in her life depending on if she's clean. And her Dad just struggles with mental health issues and money, but I am beginning to also think he's just immature and chooses to spend all his time hanging out with unsavory friends instead of being responsible for his own life and his daughter's. She texts me today and tells me she has a child support check from her Mom, but she has no way of cashing it. She said they really needed the money. It's written out to her Dad and supposedly he endorsed it and left it up to her. She has a penchant for distorting the truth, so... Anyway, her Dad doesn't have a bank account because he owes the bank money. She says they desperately need the money and could I put the check in my account and advance them a portion of it. My instinct is to just help. That's what I do, especially with children and animals. But I delete my text and tell her I'll call her in a bit. I reflect. Call a friend. He tells me to tell them to leave me the f8@k alone and figure it out themselves. In the past, they always come to me when there's a "crisis." When he had to go to the ER, he calls me (we weren't talking at the time). When he got into an altercation with his alcoholic friends and had to walk home, he called me at 3am for a ride (we had just started talking again by text after another break when this happened!). Fortunately, my phone was on DND. Countless more examples. He seems to count on me for tangible help, but when he's upset, like when his dog died and when his daughter got expelled, he went to the alcoholic neighbor's home and avoided me for days. He texted me the news immediately, but wouldn't talk to me when I called or texted. I know he drinks and smokes to cope with the incidents and so I am sure that's part of the reason he ends up at the neighbor's home (he doesn't keep substances in his own home and I don’t drink or smoke )... So part of me feels glad they know I am solid and reliable and even when we are not talking, he feels safe enough to reach out. And I do NOT think he is a user. If anything, he is so opposed to accepting help or kindness of any kind from me... but when it's something "major," he somehow can call on me. BUT still, I feel a little used. I want to be like, "Why don't you ask one of your friends whom you give all your time to and show up for instead of asking me whom you do not show up for?" Of course, I NEVER say that. It hurts. Anyway, I felt it was inappropriate for her Dad to ask her to ask me. She claims he didn't have anything to do with it. She could be lying, but he also inappropriately relies on her to handle grown-up things. Don't get me started on their enmeshment -- that's another forum. LOL. So, I said "No" and I feel awful. I simply told her, "I don't think I can help you this time" and intended to leave it at that. And there was radio silence. I had never said "No" to them in their time of need and so she was shocked. I know I don't have to explain myself, but she wanted to understand. I explained to her that I would always help with things that I felt were appropriate to help with and that they couldn't do on their own, but this was something I felt her Dad could handle and that it's better that they figure out a long-term solution to this anyway. I gave her some suggestions about check cashing places and banks. I think she was so surprised and hurt that I'm not sure she understood. She kept saying this had nothing to do with her Dad and he told her to handle it. She got a little manipulative and said she was just going to give the money back to her Mom. I told her it was her decision to make, but too not be rash and consider the solutions I offered. I feel awful. I am trying to figure out boundaries with his daughter. Part of me regrets telling them my relationship with her would remain, because I don't know if I'm strong enough right now. I try to be acutely aware of myself when with her or speaking with her, but I feel like the potential and temptation of triangulation is always there. The other part of me feels like the right (and natural for me) thing to do is to NOT just disappear from her life. We have a connection and she has no one solid in her life. Her parents have let her down and disappointed her time and time again. I have no kids and so helping her with school or getting her permit or whatever is easy for me. I know all the ins and outs as I had to do a lot of that myself. I am second guessing my handling of the check, but I do think I would only be enabling if I just handed over the money. It's something her Dad could do on his own right? It's not rocket science. Her Dad does not sort his stuff and then it comes back to haunt him. And I asked why the money was so urgent and it was as suspected, she just wanted her phone turned on. She's addicted to social media. That, to me, did not warrant an emergency. If they had no food or electricity or needed medications, I would have helped. I've done that for my elderly neighbor. I will pick up her meds or pay an electric bill... Is it possible for me to be there for this young lady and move on? I am telling myself it is, if I start putting up boundaries like I just did. I just want to be careful that the boundaries are from a sincere, healthy place and not out of spite or hurt. Lastly, I find it confusing that he will come to me in these extreme moments of vulnerability (like when he had to go to the ER -- he could have called an ambulance) but he also struggles with being vulnerable in an everyday sense. What is that about? I seriously predicted he would come to me whenever he had an issue like this or when his "friends" betray him again. Like I said, I know he doesn't use people, but then again, I think there is a small subconscious part of him that is still using me in the sense that he will rely on me but not reciprocate even as a friend. Of course the timing was great. As soon as I feel like it's my first day closer to on-track, this happens... At the end of the day, your top priority is YOU. No one is going to look out for you more than yourself. If you aren't good, then you can't be good for anyone else either. It may look to others like you aren't being a "good friend" or otherwise letting them down, but you cannot compromise your own well being if it means enabling people to use you and offer you nothing in return. It doesn't necessarily mean they are bad people, but they are limited and unable to be nothing more than energy and emotional leeches at this time when you are getting yourself together over the ending of this relationship. True friends would understand your boundaries and why things would be untenable for you. You did the right thing, please give yourself credit for that. Boundaries sometimes are uncomfortable for us too but they are set up for reasons. We are the ones who have to protect ourselves and our boundaries, and they have to just deal with it. You deserve relationships that are give and take. We all have our different limitations, but being aware and mindful goes a long way to make up for the areas we may fall short on. I think you can be there for his daughter, but it's not a free for all. She DOES have two parents and they should be stepping up for her. In this case, I agree with you, this is something her father could help her take care, and to be honest, I would be turned off that he handled it like that. A man who takes care of his kids is a very attractive man to me, and the opposite is not. Being there for her doesn't mean you have to be a surrogate parent; it could mean you will be there for her within your ability and comfort for what's also best for you.
|
|
|
Post by serenity on Apr 17, 2020 1:26:12 GMT
That was poor timing confusednyc So rough on you. I think its fine to have some boundaries with her, she's not your daughter, and you were never given the status of step mother, wife, or even girlfriend. If another woman came on the scene, none of them would think twice about replacing you and excluding you from their lives forever. You need to look after you. And also, there's no hurry to decide on how, or if, you wish to continue to interact with his daughter. Just keep letting her (and him) know you need space to heal for a few months. And do everything you can to honor yourself and what you need right now. <3
|
|
|
Post by confusednyc on May 25, 2020 16:47:29 GMT
Hi again, everyone. You know, I was about to write a couple weeks ago to say how I was doing pretty well... then, things took a turn. I had asked my ex-FA to take time apart until the end of the summer. It was painful the first couple of weeks, but I started feeling stronger. Then, he reaches out to tell me there's a dog in need. He throws in "Hope you're well." Animal rescue is my thing, so I write back but only "professionally" and regarding the dog. About six weeks into no contact, he texts and asks if we could please be friends and if he could help me around my house. I do NOT respond. Then he texts a couple days later to wish me a happy mother's day from my dogs (again, he knows dogs are my weakness). I do NOT respond. Eventually, he texts again regarding the dog and then asks for my help in rehoming one of his dogs. At this point, I THINK I'm ready to be friendly, as in cordial. I feel I've moved on for the most part. So I say I'll help with his dog and I tell him I'm in a good place, I've moved along and we can be friends. I say I've found a rescue that will take the dog, so he can bring the dog to me and we can discuss the details and also just catch up. HE GOES OFF! He says he doesn't want to talk, he's not ready, it makes him too upset to talk to me, etc. I tell him I'm confused as he just recently texted to be friends. He continues to say it all makes him too sad to talk about us. I explain that I meant we to just have small talk and I didn't want to rehash things either. Moving forward, I finally tell him to just leave the dog in my mud room and I'll come out and get the dog when he leaves -- we won't have to interact. He then tells me I'm taking it too far and seeing me is good for him, but he just doesn't want to talk about anything heavy. He agrees to the plan and timing and it seems easy. Then suddenly, he starts questioning the plan and says I need to get the dog... he can't drop him off. I then see where this is going, so I say that it seems both are feelings are too raw and it's best we stick to the original plan of taking time apart until after summer. So could he please drop the dog off in the mud room as planned. He starts telling me to just get the dog from his house when he's gone. I tell him I am not comfortable entering his home and ripping the dog out of his home. I explain we need to make the transition as smooth as possible for the dog. He says he can't fit into my schedule. I LITERALLY tell him to drop the dog off ANYTIME. Meanwhile, he has already driven up and down past my house five times during this and is merely down the road smoking and drinking coffee with the neighbors -- not busy at all. He has to pass the house to leave, so it's so easy. I tell him I am trying to help him and the dog, I am paying for the dog's surgery and vaccinations, scheduled it all, watching him until the rescue can take him, etc. and could he just drop the dog when he passes by. He tells me I'm being crazy and complicated. In the moment, I was just trying to coordinate as I would with anyone else. I forgot I was dealing with someone so emotional and irrational. I've never helped someone who made it so hard. I've taken in dogs and people have driven two hours to get the dog to me! He passes my house constantly. By divine intervention, I see the dog running loose down our road, so I get in my car and he hops in. I have to drive to my FAs to turn around and I guess I accidentally drove into his lawn. I tell him I got the dog. He texts me and goes off on me about his lawn. Says he's furious. Mocks me: "Was that soooo hard? You are too much! You make me crazy!" I tell him I never would intentionally mess up his lawn and he knows I'm very respectful." He keeps going on and on (this is all by text) and finally says, "I'm blocking you!" So since then, I've been set back. I keep replaying it all and I don't understand at all how it went from him wanting to be friends to being so grateful and appreciative of my help with the dog to BLOCKING ME. He has had his tantrums, but never threatened to block me. And that hurt, because I have been such a solid, good friend to him... not perfect, but I've been the one he counts on. Again, he keeps his unsavory friends near and pushes me away in the meanest of ways. Some friends says I should have just taken the dog out of his home. Sure, in hindsight, that seems the path of least resistance... but I really never thought someone could be so obstinate when they were asking me for help. Usually people meet at least halfway. In any case, I feel like I'm back to square one with my healing.
|
|
alice
Full Member
Posts: 128
|
Post by alice on May 25, 2020 17:59:34 GMT
It's a power struggle between both of you. It's difficult when they appear to be "safe" by a form of pursuit, but he was only doing this when you were ignoring him. If you reciprocate in any way, he's going to run. You see the patterns, and so when he does it the next time (he likely will, but please do not wait for it), you have to put the emotions aside (easier said than done) and go with cold hard logic which is predicting his pattern and that is to run when you respond. So just don't respond. He is using what he knows will get to you (the dogs). This doesn't make him a bad person, per se, but he is desperately trying to get what he needs and unfortunately that ignores your feelings and needs. He is just not capable of caring for your feelings at all.
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on May 25, 2020 18:17:43 GMT
Wow. I'm so sorry. These are more than attachment issues, he's very seriously emotionally unstable. I know you've posted that he tries to get help, and does have several co-morbid problems, but I don't really see a scenario in which you can have him in your life with any sort of meaningful friendship / connection based on even this recent situation with the dog. He doesn't care about the dog's well-being and was using it to control you, and getting angry, irrational, moving goalposts when it wasn't working how he wanted it to.
It's dug up stuff for you and you were treated badly, so of course you're feeling set back now. But you also sound like you're aware of what's going on and how toxic this all is and that withdrawing yourself is your best option, so give yourself some time to feel the negative emotions you're feeling and process them, and I think it'll get better for you soon. But you may need to also process and mourn that you can't have a friendship with this man after all, because he's so toxic and will just keep dragging you through like this no matter what you do. If you can't, it's not a failure on your part, it's you respecting yourself and having healthy boundaries because he can't.
And I'm glad you did get the dog so that the dog can get what it needs!
|
|
|
Post by confusednyc on May 25, 2020 19:39:49 GMT
alice and alexandara -- Thank you both for your comforting perspectives and compassion.
Alice, I do understand the idea of the power struggle, but I looked back at our exchange and I can say that I only tried to accommodate within reason. When he suddenly said he wasn't ready to talk, I came up with a plan to drop the dog so we wouldn't have to see each other. Then he complained I was taking it too far. When he said he couldn't drop the dog off at a certain day/time, I picked a different one until I eventually said "Any day. Any time."
Alexandra, yes, he has many issues by his own admission. I now have learned he plans or starts to get help, but has never followed through fully or for any length of time. And, yes, when I told him we could be friends and saw how he changed his mind and then this dog thing, that's when I said we should continue to be apart. I could see that a friendship might not be possible and I think that's a lot of the pain I'm feeling. And realizing that what I valued in him most was his gentle nature and I'm seeing more and more that he has a very ungentle, volatile side which I don't want to admit.
I also forgot to mention that after not responding and then many days later saying I was okay with being friends, I assured him I would keep boundaries and not cross things physically as we both had in the past. I told him I was past that. I assumed that would offer him comfort in seeing me, because while he would touch me (no sex though), he would often complain that it made him uncomfortable and was sinful and we had to stop. Well, that text was followed by his lashing out about how he didn't want to talk to me. I was confused as just days earlier he wanted to be friends. I can't win!
I'm affected lots by the blocking me. He's never done that. He'll say he's done and after a week or two, simmer down and reach back, either apologetically or as if nothing happened. The blocking seems so extreme even for him. Is it typical for someone to raise the stakes/push the envelope as they sense the other isn't as emotionally invested? Obviously, I am still pretty invested or I wouldn't be falling apart; however, by text, I was really calm and matter-of-fact and didn't get caught up in his emotions or mine.
On the bright side, the dog is doing wonderfully! My FA complained that he had to rid of the dog, despite being attached, because the dog was too destructive and to much work. His house is chaotic (constant fighting and yelling between his daughter and him) and he leaves the dog tied out all day. My home is calm, my dogs are on a routine and this dog has not destroyed one thing or made one mess. He is easy! Hmmm.... Of note, one person suggested he also didn't want to drop the dog off, because he had to face yet another perceived failure in his life and also he is very sensitive to animals on some level and didn't want to face saying "bye" to the dog and wanted someone else to do his bidding.
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on May 25, 2020 19:55:16 GMT
confusednyc, I actually think you've got it backwards... "The blocking seems so extreme even for him. Is it typical for someone to raise the stakes/push the envelope as they sense the other isn't as emotionally invested?" Yes, it's typical of emotional abusers to keep pushing the envelope (ie mowing down the other person's boundaries however they can). But it's not really because they're concerned that the other person isn't reciprocating their own emotional investment anymore. It's a control tactic. He manipulates you to try to get his needs met. On some level, he was able to do this using fuzzy physical boundaries before, but now you've laid down a solid boundary and said that won't work anymore. So, first he got angry and frustrated that it won't work anymore, and now he's trying other tactics to see what WILL work to keep you under his thumb. That doesn't necessarily mean he's doing it maliciously or intentionally, but it does mean it will keep happening if you let it, which is one reason this is so toxic.
|
|
|
Post by confusednyc on May 26, 2020 16:17:01 GMT
alexandra - That makes sense. It's very hard for me to admit his behavior's are abusive and controlling. I want so badly to believe he was the kind, gentle man I first met. I never thought he had this side. Thanks for reminding me that it may not be malicious or intentional; still, the result is it's hurtful. And, again, the hardest part is how he accepts mistreatment and disrespect from all of his peers and never cuts them out... complains, but then defends them. I haven't been perfect, but I can 100% say that I have never raised my voice, called him a name or treated him with any disrespect. I have respectfully expressed my feelings or difference of opinion at times and, yes, when I didn't understand what was going on with his hot and cold behavior at first, I did get emotional, but it was in the way of getting sad and expressing my hurt and confusion. Yet, he "punishes" me and continues to give all his time and energy to friends he himself as referred to as "liars and thieves, bad influences." Sigh.
|
|
|
Post by serenity on May 26, 2020 19:41:55 GMT
alexandra - That makes sense. It's very hard for me to admit his behavior's are abusive and controlling. I want so badly to believe he was the kind, gentle man I first met. I never thought he had this side. Thanks for reminding me that it may not be malicious or intentional; still, the result is it's hurtful. And, again, the hardest part is how he accepts mistreatment and disrespect from all of his peers and never cuts them out... complains, but then defends them. I haven't been perfect, but I can 100% say that I have never raised my voice, called him a name or treated him with any disrespect. I have respectfully expressed my feelings or difference of opinion at times and, yes, when I didn't understand what was going on with his hot and cold behavior at first, I did get emotional, but it was in the way of getting sad and expressing my hurt and confusion. Yet, he "punishes" me and continues to give all his time and energy to friends he himself as referred to as "liars and thieves, bad influences." Sigh. Sending you love and Hugs confusednycI felt very upset reading about how he treated you You deserve a lot of credit and a BIG thank you for rehoming that dog for him and paying for its vet bills. And he if he really cared about its welfare, he would have done it himself. He just used it as a lure to reel you in. Then he gas lit you, was totally unreasonable, assassinated your character, emotionally destabilised you, and punished you with rejection and stonewalling. From a distance, he comes across as a vulnerable narcissist who has gotten very good at playing the victim and putting on a social facade of "care" to mask his selfishness and lack of care. You have a strong rescuer side to your nature, and if you're like me, you will struggle with it from time time and pick the wrong causes. You will feel the pain and woundedness behind an abuser's behaviour, and feel that urge to pluck out the thorn from the lions paw. But you really have to know that when a wound is psychological, love almost never helps. Instead, it enables and gives them someone to swipe with their claws. Very few abusive men wish to give up the power of abusing others, and in the rare cases where they do, its rejection, rather than love, that motivates them. Don't throw away your valuable time and qualities as a rescuer on abusive men. IMO you are too important, and what you do in the world is truly valuable. <3
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on May 26, 2020 20:23:29 GMT
And, again, the hardest part is how he accepts mistreatment and disrespect from all of his peers and never cuts them out... complains, but then defends them. Yet, he "punishes" me and continues to give all his time and energy to friends he himself as referred to as "liars and thieves, bad influences." Sigh. This sounds like he generally feels powerless and like he has to people-please (it's not uncommon that FA may fawn to win approval, as they learned it might work in childhood), and perhaps with the women he dates he sees it as an outlet to reclaim some control. Are most of the "friends" he caters to also men? He may have some gender issues going on from however he grew up. It's also possible that he feels he is on the level of these people he recognizes as not good people (ie feels bad about himself and who he is, surrounds himself with similar people) and then is mean to those who treat him better because he doesn't feel he deserves it. Example of negative thought-track of someone insecure and who has a bad relationship with him/herself: something must be wrong with anyone else who can care for someone as broken as me. But again, we can speculate all day and not know. What's important is that the outcome, that he doesn't treat you with respect, is the same. And you didn't cause the behavior, so you also can't change it.
|
|
|
Post by confusednyc on May 26, 2020 21:40:02 GMT
alexandra, you're spot on. He always says things like he feels better about hanging out with "losers," because he realizes he's not as messed up as they are. He said he is a light in their lives, too. He actually hangs out with addict and alcoholic men and caters to the older, addict/alcoholic mothers of them who apparently tell him how wonderful he is for helping them out so much (their children are addicts who still live at home and are enabled by them). He has issues with his mother, whom he never felt good enough for and who sided with his abusive stepfather.
In one of our last talks, he said he was not a good man, that he wasn't good enough for me, blah blah blah. He started saying that crap about 2-3 months in and I wished I'd listened then. He would say it, but then say he didn't want me to give up.
He hasn't dated anyone in 12 years since me. And, as mentioned in my previous post, according to him (and mutual acquaintances and his family have corroborated), the three serious relationships he had included a woman who cheated on him with his best friend, an abusive crack addict and an abusive woman who had bipolar disorder. I was the first woman he'd dated since the last one. All of the prior women denied him sex eventually and I now believe despite his obvious strong sexual desire, he felt comfortable in sexless relationships.
But you're right, the outcome is what matters. I am eager for the day I will stop ruminating and trying to make sense of it all. You and this forum are certainly helping with this. Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by confusednyc on May 27, 2020 0:24:14 GMT
serenity -- Somehow, I overlooked your post until now. I am so sorry for the oversight, as you've been helping me all along this journey. THANK YOU! As I might have mentioned, my last partner was an emotionally abusive, narcissist (diagnosed), so it wouldn't be unusual that I was drawn to another. While I do think this guy is self-absorbed and selfish in his own misery, I still have found that he does have true empathy and kindness, unlike my ex who literally was all about how he appeared outside in public. Even so, I am sure you are right and this guy still has lots of narcissistic qualities, even if not a full-blown narc. Thanks for appreciating my work with dogs. It's "funny," because I've been doing this for awhile now and in most cases where the dog wasn't abused and neglected, their family would go out of their way to work with me and offer me help if they could. This guy put up obstacles, didn't even offer to help with the vet care or gas money or give me leftover food or anything. Now, I didn't ask and didn't even mention that I paid for stuff the program wouldn't cover, but it's another fine example of his selfishness. And you're right, I do have a rescuer nature and I consciously know it doesn't work, but I keep finding myself drawn to these men... Each time, I think this one is different and they appear to be, but I'm obviously not picking up on it. I will say that I ended it with this guy far sooner than I have historically in relationships, so it's progress. Now, I will stick to rescuing dogs and not men.
|
|