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Post by Dualcitizen on May 27, 2020 2:22:50 GMT
serenity -- Somehow, I overlooked your post until now. I am so sorry for the oversight, as you've been helping me all along this journey. THANK YOU! As I might have mentioned, my last partner was an emotionally abusive, narcissist (diagnosed), so it wouldn't be unusual that I was drawn to another.  While I do think this guy is self-absorbed and selfish in his own misery, I still have found that he does have true empathy and kindness, unlike my ex who literally was all about how he appeared outside in public. Even so, I am sure you are right and this guy still has lots of narcissistic qualities, even if not a full-blown narc. Thanks for appreciating my work with dogs. It's "funny," because I've been doing this for awhile now and in most cases where the dog wasn't abused and neglected, their family would go out of their way to work with me and offer me help if they could. This guy put up obstacles, didn't even offer to help with the vet care or gas money or give me leftover food or anything. Now, I didn't ask and didn't even mention that I paid for stuff the program wouldn't cover, but it's another fine example of his selfishness. And you're right, I do have a rescuer nature and I consciously know it doesn't work, but I keep finding myself drawn to these men... Each time, I think this one is different and they appear to be, but I'm obviously not picking up on it. I will say that I ended it with this guy far sooner than I have historically in relationships, so it's progress. Now, I will stick to rescuing dogs and not men.  From what you've said, it doesn't appear this latest guy is a "narcissist tendency" unless he has a history of continual nastiness, and putting you down with commentary, but even a codependent can do this from time to time via "outer" critic. I've seen my exes "inner" and "outer" critic personally, she's roughly a Fawn/flight people pleaser codependent (very dependent on parents, the abusers). This guy you mention above, was looking for validation and became angry after he never received aforesaid validation from you. It's still an abusive way to behave, no doubts about it, passive aggressive and some control and manipulation in there for sure. He sounds definitely codependent. Richard Grannon explains here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjGsHUq8g3o |
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Post by confusednyc on May 27, 2020 16:59:31 GMT
Dualcitizen -- Thanks for your insight. That video was like nothing else I've seen or heard about codependency. Definitely sounds like my ex-FA... and I have my own codependency issues that I've been working through with my therapist, so this was helpful to me to watch. I do not quite understand your comment about not receiving validation from me. Do you mean in this particular scenario or overall? Throughout our relationship, I was always reassuring and complimentary of him. In fact, I was a little enamored at first, which he seemed to appreciate at the start ("No one has ever said those things to me"), but soon made him uncomfortable and he insisted I stop, which I did.
UPDATE: He just sent me a bunch of rambling texts that have me upset again. I was feeling okay today -- up early, hiking with the dogs, tackling so much around the house...felt I was out of the doldrums and the he appears. He apologized for the ordeal with the dog. Let me be clear: He said he was sorry, but didn't take any real responsibility. He still was wondering why it was so hard for me to get the dog. But his text was definitely emotional as if he'd been thinking and feeling bad.
I didn't respond. Awhile later, he tells me he helped find a home for this other dog he'd asked me to help with. He adds, "See I'm not totally useless." I have NEVER called him "useless" or any name or any mean thing like that. Then he says, "I can't imagine what you told Josh, but then again, I don't give a crap." Josh is my ex. Not even sure why this is mentioned. He knows I am cordial with my ex, but that's it.
I still don't respond. He sends another text later that just so I know, he's not seeing anyone new. He just doesn't want me to think too much, not that it matters much anyway who we see. That it's all too much and he just wants to be friends.
I don't respond and then he texts again telling me how to take care of the dog I took from him and saying he regrets giving the dog up. Then he's telling me how he disagrees with my philosophy on dogs and how I manage them. This is because I have two different groups of dogs as they don't all get along. They are undadoptable dogs, so I have to keep them separate. He starts saying if dogs are raised properly, then they don't need to be kept separately. Then says if they don't get along, they need to be sent to a home where they don't have this issue. I am furious. First of all, there aren't enough homes for dogs as it is. Secondly, most of my dogs no one would take due to their issues. Thirdly, I didn't raise my dogs. They came to me with horrible histories of neglect and abuse that can't always be undone (he should know, since it sounds like him -- sorry, I had to make the jab). So I made the choice to arrange my home and land in a way that they can be separated. It's common in the animal rescue world. He's not a malicious person, but this seems so mean to me. I've explained all my dogs' issues before to him and now he acts like we've never had the conversation. Meanwhile, he's gotten rid of FIVE dogs, because he felt they were too much. And after knowing him, I realized he tends to avoid anything that requires true effort and he's unwilling to sacrifice for the long term or has no concept of delayed gratification. I know this turned into a rant with me defending my dog care, but I am feeling very defensive because this is what I've devoted my life to and so it strikes a nerve.
Anyway, I'm not intending to reply, but I want to crawl under a rock and cry again.
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Post by alexandra on May 27, 2020 19:57:30 GMT
...but now you've laid down a solid boundary and said that won't work anymore. So, first he got angry and frustrated that it won't work anymore, and now he's trying other tactics to see what WILL work to keep you under his thumb. That doesn't necessarily mean he's doing it maliciously or intentionally, but it does mean it will keep happening if you let it, which is one reason this is so toxic. , exactly what I described to expect a couple days ago. He's trying to push all buttons to get any response. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on May 27, 2020 22:04:17 GMT
Dualcitizen -- Thanks for your insight. That video was like nothing else I've seen or heard about codependency. Definitely sounds like my ex-FA... and I have my own codependency issues that I've been working through with my therapist, so this was helpful to me to watch. I do not quite understand your comment about not receiving validation from me. Do you mean in this particular scenario or overall? Throughout our relationship, I was always reassuring and complimentary of him. In fact, I was a little enamored at first, which he seemed to appreciate at the start ("No one has ever said those things to me"), but soon made him uncomfortable and he insisted I stop, which I did. As per Alexandra's post. The last bit of your post is pertinent I feel. Now there could be factors for both of you in this relationship. But i'll tell you, as a secure attachment, I give chances for people to explain initially, and literally ask, what the over emotion is all about, and I certainly do not overreact when someone is over emotional and get dragged in and become dysregulated myself, I probably will be by default almost eventually if it's passive aggressive behaviour, like I will start to get annoyed with the behaviour, however I will still calmly describe what is going on and how that behaviour is effecting me etc and leave them to sort it out. As an example. And so baring that in mind, if that's what you did in this relationship bye and large, there is nothing you can do, at all. It's on the other person to be able to learn to self soothe and regulate themselves to some degree. And this guy and what you describe is unhealthy. His gravitation to the people he hangs with say it all to be honest. The pushing away, but then being passive aggressive when you move on (same happened to me on a couple occasions). He has low self esteem, literally tells you he does, and cannot "accept" your love (the old adage "if you don't love yourself, you cannot love another is pertinent). i.e. Your kind gestures. This was similar to my ex. I'll give you another example. I actually late last year made my ex. dinner one night, we're on friendly terms, I've tried to help her, she said to me "noone has ever done this for me!", I never said anything/reacted, but in my head, it was another light bulb moment of who she has attracted and stayed with longer term. I simply do not fit the paradigm. I am fully for a complimentary partner, where interdependence is key, along with reasonable emotional regulation. I feel you've done the right thing, it's upsetting still, but you have stronger boundaries, and it's for your own well being. I wouldn't concern yourself with the dogs, it's his "outer critic" berating you in the moment. And that would be due to his "inner critic" on himself, don't worry nor take offence, you know who you are and what you do, and that's all that matters. |
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Post by confusednyc on May 28, 2020 3:09:38 GMT
alexandra -- Yes, I see your words did come into play with my ex's latest antics.
dualcitizen -- I wasn't perfect during our relationship and I did express hurt and frustration and take part in the "I'm done. Let's try again" cycle early on when I didn't know what was going on -- how he seemed so certain to want to try things with me and then got cold. But I can honestly say that, especially as I've gotten older, I am pretty good at outwardly controlling my emotions with others, even when I feel inner hurt and turmoil. I save sharing that with my closest friends and my therapist...and you all on this board. And I will fall apart alone often, but I put on brave, calm face outwardly. Not sure how healthy that all is either. But he and all my exes will attest that I never had out of control emotional episodes with the exception of my narc ex towards the end when I just yelled at him a few times towards the end of our relationship. So with my ex-FA, I was consistently reassuring and generally expressed how things made me feel, never yelling or blaming.
Your story about dinner is so familiar! My ex-FA used to say that about everything: "No woman has ever said such nice things about me. I've never had a woman want me sexually like you do. No one has ever been so kind to me. No one has ever done this or that for me." And he seemed to appreciate it so much at first and then he just became increasingly uncomfortable with it. It took me looking back now to see it differently. It's also helpful that you pointed out that you've seen that you do not fit the paradigm of the partners your ex stayed with longer term. I was always hurt that my ex-FA was willing to have long-term defined relationships with a cheater, a crack addict and an abusive woman. I wondered, "Why were they worthy of his love and I am not?" I even asked him once. Can't recall what he said. Now, my life is far from perfect. I have my own messes and I've been transparent with him about this. But he never was eager to check on me or help me, yet I have heard he would drop anything to "come to the rescue" of his exes and his addict friends. I am pretty independent and I don't have fires that need putting out, so maybe that's the problem?
And you are right about not worrying or taking offense at his comments about my dogs. I should just know my truth and that should be enough, but I'm still working on my own self-worth issues.
I still haven't responded and am hoping I stay strong. I feel a little bad ignoring him, but I am finally (sadly) accepting that each time I allow him in, I end up getting hurt and mistreated.
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Post by alexandra on May 28, 2020 3:48:21 GMT
alexandra -- Yes, I see your words did come into play with my ex's latest antics. dualcitizen -- I wasn't perfect during our relationship and I did express hurt and frustration and take part in the "I'm done. Let's try again" cycle early on when I didn't know what was going on -- how he seemed so certain to want to try things with me and then got cold. But I can honestly say that, especially as I've gotten older, I am pretty good at outwardly controlling my emotions with others, even when I feel inner hurt and turmoil. I save sharing that with my closest friends and my therapist...and you all on this board. And I will fall apart alone often, but I put on brave, calm face outwardly. Not sure how healthy that all is either. But he and all my exes will attest that I never had out of control emotional episodes with the exception of my narc ex towards the end when I just yelled at him a few times towards the end of our relationship. So with my ex-FA, I was consistently reassuring and generally expressed how things made me feel, never yelling or blaming. Your story about dinner is so familiar! My ex-FA used to say that about everything: "No woman has ever said such nice things about me. I've never had a woman want me sexually like you do. No one has ever been so kind to me. No one has ever done this or that for me." And he seemed to appreciate it so much at first and then he just became increasingly uncomfortable with it. It took me looking back now to see it differently. It's also helpful that you pointed out that you've seen that you do not fit the paradigm of the partners your ex stayed with longer term. I was always hurt that my ex-FA was willing to have long-term defined relationships with a cheater, a crack addict and an abusive woman. I wondered, "Why were they worthy of his love and I am not?" I even asked him once. Can't recall what he said. Now, my life is far from perfect. I have my own messes and I've been transparent with him about this. But he never was eager to check on me or help me, yet I have heard he would drop anything to "come to the rescue" of his exes and his addict friends. I am pretty independent and I don't have fires that need putting out, so maybe that's the problem? And you are right about not worrying or taking offense at his comments about my dogs. I should just know my truth and that should be enough, but I'm still working on my own self-worth issues. I still haven't responded and am hoping I stay strong. I feel a little bad ignoring him, but I am finally (sadly) accepting that each time I allow him in, I end up getting hurt and mistreated.
Yes, and I hope you know my comment wasn't saying anything like I told you so lol. It was intended to point out, this is part of a predictable pattern, and hopefully that can help you depersonalize it to be less painful.
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Post by Dualcitizen on May 28, 2020 4:06:34 GMT
alexandra -- Yes, I see your words did come into play with my ex's latest antics. dualcitizen -- I wasn't perfect during our relationship and I did express hurt and frustration and take part in the "I'm done. Let's try again" cycle early on when I didn't know what was going on -- how he seemed so certain to want to try things with me and then got cold. But I can honestly say that, especially as I've gotten older, I am pretty good at outwardly controlling my emotions with others, even when I feel inner hurt and turmoil. I save sharing that with my closest friends and my therapist...and you all on this board. And I will fall apart alone often, but I put on brave, calm face outwardly. Not sure how healthy that all is either. But he and all my exes will attest that I never had out of control emotional episodes with the exception of my narc ex towards the end when I just yelled at him a few times towards the end of our relationship. So with my ex-FA, I was consistently reassuring and generally expressed how things made me feel, never yelling or blaming. Your story about dinner is so familiar! My ex-FA used to say that about everything: "No woman has ever said such nice things about me. I've never had a woman want me sexually like you do. No one has ever been so kind to me. No one has ever done this or that for me." And he seemed to appreciate it so much at first and then he just became increasingly uncomfortable with it. It took me looking back now to see it differently. It's also helpful that you pointed out that you've seen that you do not fit the paradigm of the partners your ex stayed with longer term. I was always hurt that my ex-FA was willing to have long-term defined relationships with a cheater, a crack addict and an abusive woman. I wondered, "Why were they worthy of his love and I am not?" I even asked him once. Can't recall what he said. Now, my life is far from perfect. I have my own messes and I've been transparent with him about this. But he never was eager to check on me or help me, yet I have heard he would drop anything to "come to the rescue" of his exes and his addict friends. I am pretty independent and I don't have fires that need putting out, so maybe that's the problem? And you are right about not worrying or taking offense at his comments about my dogs. I should just know my truth and that should be enough, but I'm still working on my own self-worth issues. I still haven't responded and am hoping I stay strong. I feel a little bad ignoring him, but I am finally (sadly) accepting that each time I allow him in, I end up getting hurt and mistreated. Noone is "perfect", secures are not perfect, I am not perfect. I'm just trying to relay to you, that even if you are fully regulated emotionally yourself, it's not a guarantee of success, or any change in outcome. Don't take me the wrong way, we all make mistakes. It's good you identify a few things. What I was trying to elude to is, regardless of behaviour, he certainly is not someone secure in himself, he's showing massive signs of insecurity, and so, you can pretty much guarantee, it's gonna be tough work at the bare minimum. Well done on your boundary setting, and I wish you the best with your efforts on yourself and I hope you reach whatever goals you set yourself in future. |
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Post by serenity on May 28, 2020 22:49:41 GMT
Dualcitizen -- Thanks for your insight. That video was like nothing else I've seen or heard about codependency. Definitely sounds like my ex-FA... and I have my own codependency issues that I've been working through with my therapist, so this was helpful to me to watch. I do not quite understand your comment about not receiving validation from me. Do you mean in this particular scenario or overall? Throughout our relationship, I was always reassuring and complimentary of him. In fact, I was a little enamored at first, which he seemed to appreciate at the start ("No one has ever said those things to me"), but soon made him uncomfortable and he insisted I stop, which I did. UPDATE: He just sent me a bunch of rambling texts that have me upset again. I was feeling okay today -- up early, hiking with the dogs, tackling so much around the house...felt I was out of the doldrums and the he appears. He apologized for the ordeal with the dog. Let me be clear: He said he was sorry, but didn't take any real responsibility. He still was wondering why it was so hard for me to get the dog. But his text was definitely emotional as if he'd been thinking and feeling bad. I didn't respond. Awhile later, he tells me he helped find a home for this other dog he'd asked me to help with. He adds, "See I'm not totally useless." I have NEVER called him "useless" or any name or any mean thing like that. Then he says, "I can't imagine what you told Josh, but then again, I don't give a crap." Josh is my ex. Not even sure why this is mentioned. He knows I am cordial with my ex, but that's it. I still don't respond. He sends another text later that just so I know, he's not seeing anyone new. He just doesn't want me to think too much, not that it matters much anyway who we see. That it's all too much and he just wants to be friends. I don't respond and then he texts again telling me how to take care of the dog I took from him and saying he regrets giving the dog up. Then he's telling me how he disagrees with my philosophy on dogs and how I manage them. This is because I have two different groups of dogs as they don't all get along. They are undadoptable dogs, so I have to keep them separate. He starts saying if dogs are raised properly, then they don't need to be kept separately. Then says if they don't get along, they need to be sent to a home where they don't have this issue. I am furious. First of all, there aren't enough homes for dogs as it is. Secondly, most of my dogs no one would take due to their issues. Thirdly, I didn't raise my dogs. They came to me with horrible histories of neglect and abuse that can't always be undone (he should know, since it sounds like him -- sorry, I had to make the jab). So I made the choice to arrange my home and land in a way that they can be separated. It's common in the animal rescue world. He's not a malicious person, but this seems so mean to me. I've explained all my dogs' issues before to him and now he acts like we've never had the conversation. Meanwhile, he's gotten rid of FIVE dogs, because he felt they were too much. And after knowing him, I realized he tends to avoid anything that requires true effort and he's unwilling to sacrifice for the long term or has no concept of delayed gratification. I know this turned into a rant with me defending my dog care, but I am feeling very defensive because this is what I've devoted my life to and so it strikes a nerve. Anyway, I'm not intending to reply, but I want to crawl under a rock and cry again. Oof!! Thats so awful, no wonder you feel like crawling into a hole. I agree with Alexandra, he's provoking you via Gaslighting...accusing you of having thoughts, intentions, and weakness you don't actually have, leaving you feeling a need to defend and explain yourself. Its important to realise that he's not looking for a sane conversation at this point, or to be corrected for his false assumptions. He wants to make you the "bad guy" and if you engage, you're giving him someone to hurt, invalidate, and destabilize, instead of facing his own demons. Gaslighters are usually looking to upset you so that when you finally react, they can blame "your reaction" on why they think/behave the way they do. That's how they stay unaccountable for their own stuff. I think you'd be best to ignore him for now, and if he tries it again, ignore that too. Only engage with him when he's being reasonable or else the gaslighting will escalate. Sending hugs!! |
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Post by mrob on May 29, 2020 1:14:58 GMT
Simple solution. Say goodbye and block. Blocking is neither as difficult nor as traumatic as some would have you believe.
Give yourself some space.
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alice
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Post by alice on May 29, 2020 6:16:03 GMT
confusednycI'm not sure I would agree that he is gaslighting you, however, he is not respecting your boundaries. He is trying to get your attention. Of course, you have to do what is right for you. If receiving these texts are hurting you, you should block him. I know this is difficult....it's hard for me to not look at messages, yet seeing them can disturb your peace of mind. I hope you continue to do the things you have been doing to take care of yourself. Just keep in mind he is just trying to get your attention. The content of how he is doing that is irrelevant.
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Post by serenity on May 29, 2020 22:54:03 GMT
confusednyc I'm not sure I would agree that he is gaslighting you, however, he is not respecting your boundaries. He is trying to get your attention. Of course, you have to do what is right for you. If receiving these texts are hurting you, you should block him. I know this is difficult....it's hard for me to not look at messages, yet seeing them can disturb your peace of mind. I hope you continue to do the things you have been doing to take care of yourself. Just keep in mind he is just trying to get your attention. The content of how he is doing that is irrelevant. I think the way someone goes about getting their needs met is totally relevant though. Respectful people will be direct about what they need from others, and simply ask. Psychologically abusive people will manipulate, control, gaslight, character assassinate, insult, attack and stonewall. Whether acted our consciously or not, these are all very psychologically, emotionally and even physically harmful behaviours if you are on the receiving end, and noone is immune. The reason many of us put up with it though, is because intermittent reinforcement causes cognitive dissonance. We let partners off the hook and invent a narrative to justify staying in the firing line of harm. "He just wants attention""He loves me deep down" "He had a bad childhood" "he was feeling X,Y,Z" . It helps us avoid the pain breaking an addiction, our grief, and feelings of abandonment. But its also a mental trap that keeps us in harms way. If someone wants something from you, then its their responsibility it ask for it respectfully and clearly. If they haven't done that and you invent a narrative about what they want whilst enduring harmful behavior, its likely cognitive dissonance at work. |
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alice
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Post by alice on May 30, 2020 1:24:21 GMT
confusednyc I'm not sure I would agree that he is gaslighting you, however, he is not respecting your boundaries. He is trying to get your attention. Of course, you have to do what is right for you. If receiving these texts are hurting you, you should block him. I know this is difficult....it's hard for me to not look at messages, yet seeing them can disturb your peace of mind. I hope you continue to do the things you have been doing to take care of yourself. Just keep in mind he is just trying to get your attention. The content of how he is doing that is irrelevant. I think the way someone goes about getting their needs met is totally relevant though. Respectful people will be direct about what they need from others, and simply ask. Psychologically abusive people will manipulate, control, gaslight, character assassinate, insult, attack and stonewall. Whether acted our consciously or not, these are all very psychologically, emotionally and even physically harmful behaviours if you are on the receiving end, and noone is immune. The reason many of us put up with it though, is because intermittent reinforcement causes cognitive dissonance. We let partners off the hook and invent a narrative to justify staying in the firing line of harm. "He just wants attention""He loves me deep down" "He had a bad childhood" "he was feeling X,Y,Z" . It helps us avoid the pain breaking an addiction, our grief, and feelings of abandonment. But its also a mental trap that keeps us in harms way. If someone wants something from you, then its their responsibility it ask for it respectfully and clearly. If they haven't done that and you invent a narrative about what they want whilst enduring harmful behavior, its likely cognitive dissonance at work. In this case, it is irrelevant because there is already a break, a determination that there are attachment issues and that this relationship is not workable. All of that means no contact to move on and heal. Trying to determine all of these things you mention (the whys and hows) tends to lead to reading into things which further reinforces the attachment and all of this is purely unnecessary analysis and conjecture. AP tends to overanalyze and assume someone is purposely out to get them. Most people are not like that, however, there are a good number of people who are careless enough to allow for collateral damage while attempting to get their needs met. AP style thinking like this only harms the AP. I would highly discourage this kind of behavior and harmful thinking. As an FA, I have been on both sides of this. I have thought someone was out to get me, and I have had someone accuse me of purposely holding out and manipulating his feelings. Neither were accurate. The answer is much simpler. That answer is to stop thinking about what the other person is doing, walk away, and heal your own issues. |
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Post by serenity on Jun 1, 2020 18:35:30 GMT
I think the way someone goes about getting their needs met is totally relevant though. Respectful people will be direct about what they need from others, and simply ask. Psychologically abusive people will manipulate, control, gaslight, character assassinate, insult, attack and stonewall. Whether acted our consciously or not, these are all very psychologically, emotionally and even physically harmful behaviours if you are on the receiving end, and noone is immune. The reason many of us put up with it though, is because intermittent reinforcement causes cognitive dissonance. We let partners off the hook and invent a narrative to justify staying in the firing line of harm. "He just wants attention""He loves me deep down" "He had a bad childhood" "he was feeling X,Y,Z" . It helps us avoid the pain breaking an addiction, our grief, and feelings of abandonment. But its also a mental trap that keeps us in harms way. If someone wants something from you, then its their responsibility it ask for it respectfully and clearly. If they haven't done that and you invent a narrative about what they want whilst enduring harmful behavior, its likely cognitive dissonance at work. In this case, it is irrelevant because there is already a break, a determination that there are attachment issues and that this relationship is not workable. All of that means no contact to move on and heal. Trying to determine all of these things you mention (the whys and hows) tends to lead to reading into things which further reinforces the attachment and all of this is purely unnecessary analysis and conjecture. AP tends to overanalyze and assume someone is purposely out to get them. Most people are not like that, however, there are a good number of people who are careless enough to allow for collateral damage while attempting to get their needs met. AP style thinking like this only harms the AP. I would highly discourage this kind of behavior and harmful thinking. As an FA, I have been on both sides of this. I have thought someone was out to get me, and I have had someone accuse me of purposely holding out and manipulating his feelings. Neither were accurate. The answer is much simpler. That answer is to stop thinking about what the other person is doing, walk away, and heal your own issues. Hi Alice, I agree that many people who use tools such as manipulation, gaslighting, character assassinations, stonewalling and witholding to get their needs met are often falling back on deeply ingrained habits, rather than consciously abusing people. But conscious or not, it doesn't lessen the harm and distress those behaviours can cause others, most particularly those who rely on them, such as partners, employees, and children. I disagree that believing others are out to get them is an "AP" trait. Anxiously attached partners tend to let their partners off the hook too much and cling to hope as part of cognitive dissonance and the intermittent reinforcement dynamic. When someone in this position makes the mental turn and acknowledges that they are in harms way, its means they are healing via facing reality. It usually takes a lot of pain and/or distance from the relationship to get to this point. I've often heard this referred to as "coming out of the Fog" and its regarded as healthy, because it aids with forming boundaries with abusive behavior. On the other hand, "Hypervigilence" - where a person distrusts others without any reason - is a symptom of PTSD and I've seen it affect people across all attachment styles. I definitely agree that confusednyc is on the right path with trying to have no contact. I also appreciate its hard when they are neighbours and he drives past her home every day, sometimes multiple times a day. |
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alice
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Post by alice on Jun 2, 2020 23:09:48 GMT
Hi Alice, I agree that many people who use tools such as manipulation, gaslighting, character assassinations, stonewalling and witholding to get their needs met are often falling back on deeply ingrained habits, rather than consciously abusing people. But conscious or not, it doesn't lessen the harm and distress those behaviours can cause others, most particularly those who rely on them, such as partners, employees, and children. I disagree that believing others are out to get them is an "AP" trait. Anxiously attached partners tend to let their partners off the hook too much and cling to hope as part of cognitive dissonance and the intermittent reinforcement dynamic. When someone in this position makes the mental turn and acknowledges that they are in harms way, its means they are healing via facing reality. It usually takes a lot of pain and/or distance from the relationship to get to this point. I've often heard this referred to as "coming out of the Fog" and its regarded as healthy, because it aids with forming boundaries with abusive behavior. On the other hand, "Hypervigilence" - where a person distrusts others without any reason - is a symptom of PTSD and I've seen it affect people across all attachment styles. I definitely agree that confusednyc is on the right path with trying to have no contact. I also appreciate its hard when they are neighbours and he drives past her home every day, sometimes multiple times a day. I agree and disagree with you in part, but out of respect for the person hurting on this thread, I'm not going to continue to engage with you on this. |
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While I do think this guy is self-absorbed and selfish in his own misery, I still have found that he does have true empathy and kindness, unlike my ex who literally was all about how he appeared outside in public. Even so, I am sure you are right and this guy still has lots of narcissistic qualities, even if not a full-blown narc.
