swtbh
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Post by swtbh on Mar 31, 2020 23:37:40 GMT
Hello, I just wanted to introduce myself. I have recently recognized that I am FA and been reflecting a lot on my past and current relationships and what drives my feelings/actions in interpersonal relationships. I've been reading academic research about us and then informal posts about FAs on here and elsewhere and how confusing we come off to others. I can understand that and I agree that no one has to put up with unsatisfying relationships. But maybe this is selfish but sometimes I wish there was more compassion in general for people like us who have dealt with tumultuous attachment relationships and how terrifying it is to let people in and to love and be loved. One therapist I have heard said that this is become fundamentally we believe that to be known and to be loved is to be abused. That hit me like a ton of bricks. I understand though that other people just want to love us and care for us and it can be hurtful when we refuse or avoid that love... but instinctually, I do want to be safe and I do not ever want to be abused ever again.
However, I know that my intense fear of others and my intense self-loathing, while understandable from a viewpoint of wanting to be safe, is very limiting. I know intellectually the only way to get better is to get closer to others and trust them and let myself really feel love and open up to others. It's just so incredibly hard. Just wanted to put this out there.
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Post by confusednyc on Apr 1, 2020 1:35:51 GMT
Hi, swtbh. Thanks so much for your post... and for commenting on my thread. As the "sometimes partner" of an FA, your words really moved me. As you might recall from my thread, I have been struggling with my situation, trying so hard to understand my FA. I feel I have been patient and understanding, but sometimes it gets the best of me and no matter how much I try, I feel confused and rejected when I KNOW he cares for me deeply. When you wrote, "we believe that to be known and to be loved is to be abused." My FA had a very physically, emotionally and mentally abusive stepfather and his mother always took his side. He's 50 years old and just now stood up to the stepfather and the mother defended his father and so now he is not in contact with them and he is so sensitive and feels guilty. After I went no contact with him for a month, he told me he started therapy as he is just now coming to terms with how his abusive past has made him afraid of intimacy and is causing him to lose me. Of note, the few women he dated prior to me either cheated on him or were physically or emotionally abusive. I am far from perfect, but I am very calm, empathic and never even raise my voice so it confuses me that he gave those women a chance, but balks at defining a relationship with me. I know that I can't be with him right now, but your words reminded me of his plight and the need for me, as a human, to continue to be patient and compassionate towards him regardless of where he and I stand.
Anyway, I appreciate what you've shared and you're willingness to share your perspective as well as you acknowledging how while you wish for more compassion for FAs, you understand it's also hurtful to their partners. You sound like an amazing person. Thank you!
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swtbh
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Post by swtbh on Apr 1, 2020 6:52:16 GMT
Thank you for your empathy confusednyc ! And I'm sorry to hear that about your FA partner. I think it's great that you're willing to be this compassionate with him even if he's not treating you the best. You of course should stand up for yourself and your own needs. But for what it's worth, I think he does appreciate on some level your kindness. But I would imagine that he is so used to abusive treatment that he sees that as 'normal' and thus familiar. Healthy relationships can be so alienating for us because they are sadly not our norm and with our low to non-existent self-esteem, we can self-sabotage because at least we feel we can be in 'control' of familiar situations and/or feel like we're fundamentally unworthy of love anyway. I understand if that can seem strange from the outside but abuse really does warp your whole worldview. I am trying to realize the hard truth that this is actually a pretty self-centered way to view things and it is hurtful to others because quite frankly, it's an admission that we don't trust them completely. But I just don't see how that is possible for people to come close to me and not be completely repulsed by the 'real me' because I have completely internalized that the 'real me' is defective and unloveable and that's why people will hurt me from my abuse history. But I'm trying to build up my self-esteem and believe them that they genuinely do care and do not intend to hurt me. Again though, you are not obligated to stick around if it's too much for you and especially please do not feel obligated to fix your partner. I do believe that consistent love is crucial for FAs to feel safe but also it is truly our own responsibility to get better and treat others with respect. |
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swtbh
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Post by swtbh on Apr 1, 2020 7:26:19 GMT
Also, I have to admit, I feel really embarrassed reading people's descriptions of FA as being attracted to us (at least initially) because the FA person had a lot of unexpectedly wonderful traits and/or we look like we are hurting so bad and they just want to help us. They echo what a lot of people have seen in me I believe. Many people have told me they see something special in me but I have never truly believed them because I feel so worthless. I rationalize this as "They just haven't seen the real me yet. I'm just deceiving good people into thinking I'm a good person. In fact, I'm a horrible person for being such a liar to this good person so I must withdraw from them to prevent hurting them. And also, what if they hurt me like I have been hurt before? I can not let this happen." Thus, the self-sabotage. The withdrawal. But I have been trying to dig deep and maybe there is a deeper fear than being confirmed again as worthless when we do open up to people. I think the deeper fear is actually maybe I really am actually loveable and there is nothing fundamentally defective about me. That is a terrifying concept because I believe that I deserved to be abused because I'm despicable and if it turns out I'm not actually despicable, then why was I abused?
Anyway, I can't claim to speak for all FAs but I hope this possibly illuminates some of this mindset.
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dida
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Post by dida on Apr 1, 2020 16:25:39 GMT
Hi, I'm also realizing I'm a FA (with dominant avoidance). I thought i was DA (which I fpund out trough therapy [she said I'm avoidant with anxious traits... Which is FA, but for sone reason I never looked up anything but DA] but some users pointed out I seem FA. I started reading and everything made so much more sense.
I get the part about love meaning abuse. I'm in almost 2 and a half year long relationship (which I'm sad to admit that seems to die a slow death). J is insanely sweet, caring and understanding. Always tells me he loves me and that I'm highly intelligent and he loves that, or tells me I'm the most beautiful girl he has ever seen, but the only thing that pops in my mind is "you're so desperate to just have a girlfiend, thats why you're with me", "you need to tell me I look good, because I'm your girlfiend. I can see I look disgusting sp you sure can see that too", "I'm so bland and boring. Everyone hates me so you sure hate me too" . I just cand stand compliments. Feels like lies. I hate when he does something for me as it feels like I own him something,like having tp be close or have sex... Or sometimes like I don' t deserve it. It just always feel like closenes and love given to you comes with a price.
Stay strong! Hope you'll heal as soon as possible and finally be able to embrace love. (sorry for my english, not my first language)
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swtbh
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Post by swtbh on Apr 2, 2020 4:20:12 GMT
Thank you for your advice caro , I actually have been reading that book. I do have a partner and I have communicated my basic insecurities and they are aware of why I have a strong need for space and I have an abuse history and all that. It hasn't been smooth sailing but I have been with my partner for years and I am grateful for their continual understanding and patience. I don't know if I should talk about my deeper fears because I feel worried that I will hurt their feelings if I tell them things like I do feel unworthy of their love. I know they care about me and it likely won't feel good to hear that it's hard for me to truly accept it. But I will think about it. |
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swtbh
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Post by swtbh on Apr 2, 2020 4:27:32 GMT
Thank you dida. I think I do have more DA inclinations but I don't really think like that usually. But sometimes when I do feel especially stressed or anxious, I can get agitated when people try to show me love so I can relate to that. I hope you also feel better too. |
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Post by anne12 on Apr 2, 2020 7:25:46 GMT
swtbh You can try to read the thread "how to create a long lasting juicy relationship" in the general discussion forum. If your partner is willing to work with you, there are different exercises you and your partner can do together to develop your relationship. You can take a new "step" every week, month or how ever it will suit you and your partner and read it together and do the suggested couples-exercises.
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Post by amber on Apr 2, 2020 20:13:06 GMT
Also, I have to admit, I feel really embarrassed reading people's descriptions of FA as being attracted to us (at least initially) because the FA person had a lot of unexpectedly wonderful traits and/or we look like we are hurting so bad and they just want to help us. They echo what a lot of people have seen in me I believe. Many people have told me they see something special in me but I have never truly believed them because I feel so worthless. I rationalize this as "They just haven't seen the real me yet. I'm just deceiving good people into thinking I'm a good person. In fact, I'm a horrible person for being such a liar to this good person so I must withdraw from them to prevent hurting them. And also, what if they hurt me like I have been hurt before? I can not let this happen." Thus, the self-sabotage. The withdrawal. But I have been trying to dig deep and maybe there is a deeper fear than being confirmed again as worthless when we do open up to people. I think the deeper fear is actually maybe I really am actually loveable and there is nothing fundamentally defective about me. That is a terrifying concept because I believe that I deserved to be abused because I'm despicable and if it turns out I'm not actually despicable, then why was I abused? Anyway, I can't claim to speak for all FAs but I hope this possibly illuminates some of this mindset. This is great insight into your beliefs. I have this belief around feeling that if people really get to know me they won’t like who I am underneath. But less so than I used to. I’ve realised as well I struggle to let love in. Thanks for sharing your perspective from an FA, I suspect my ex sabotaged our relationship because he he felt unworthy and thought at some point he may be found out. |
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Post by confusednyc on Apr 6, 2020 19:16:40 GMT
Thank you for your empathy confusednyc ! And I'm sorry to hear that about your FA partner. I think it's great that you're willing to be this compassionate with him even if he's not treating you the best. You of course should stand up for yourself and your own needs. But for what it's worth, I think he does appreciate on some level your kindness. But I would imagine that he is so used to abusive treatment that he sees that as 'normal' and thus familiar. Healthy relationships can be so alienating for us because they are sadly not our norm and with our low to non-existent self-esteem, we can self-sabotage because at least we feel we can be in 'control' of familiar situations and/or feel like we're fundamentally unworthy of love anyway. I understand if that can seem strange from the outside but abuse really does warp your whole worldview. I am trying to realize the hard truth that this is actually a pretty self-centered way to view things and it is hurtful to others because quite frankly, it's an admission that we don't trust them completely. But I just don't see how that is possible for people to come close to me and not be completely repulsed by the 'real me' because I have completely internalized that the 'real me' is defective and unloveable and that's why people will hurt me from my abuse history. But I'm trying to build up my self-esteem and believe them that they genuinely do care and do not intend to hurt me. Again though, you are not obligated to stick around if it's too much for you and especially please do not feel obligated to fix your partner. I do believe that consistent love is crucial for FAs to feel safe but also it is truly our own responsibility to get better and treat others with respect. swtbh - Again, I appreciate your willingness to be so open, honest and vulnerable. I am not the queen of self-esteem, but I cannot imagine the way you are feeling. It sounds so painful. I am impressed and inspired by your self-awareness and determination to "figure it out." That in and of itself speaks to the quality person you are. Your words sound almost exactly like my FA. He recently told me he is and always was a "loser" and that he was "not a good man." It broke my heart, because while I do see how he can be self-destructive and self-sabotages, he is such a good person. And he is so talented and smart and handsome (though he's told me no woman like me has ever been attracted to him), but he doesn't see it and has asked me not to compliment him ever again, which was so hard for me to comprehend. Like I said, I cannot imagine what it must be like to carry these feelings about oneself. Anyway, thank you again for being so forthcoming. You sound pretty amazing to me and I say that sincerely. Not many are so self-aware and determined to work on themselves in a real way. |
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swtbh
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Post by swtbh on Apr 8, 2020 5:57:05 GMT
Thanks again everyone for the advice and empathy. Typical for an FA, I don't feel this is all that impressive but I appreciate the support. Honestly, I don't know if this actually feels all that painful though. It's just normal for me and it's what I feel I deserve anyway... although I have heard from my partner and others that my thought process is harsh and I have a lot of self-loathing. Maybe once I continue on self-compassion I will feel differently though.
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