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Post by alexandra on Aug 11, 2020 0:03:02 GMT
alice, objectively, no one should be losing their temper with you at that stage. You're right not to want someone who takes their frustration out on other people. Easiest to just chalk it up to maybe he's having a bad day (or he's a jerk), and keep moving along to the next. And I didn't realize you meant a screen name, that's fine. I thought you meant you were going by Tina or something then saying just kidding, I'm Alice, which would be kind of awkward.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 11, 2020 0:07:52 GMT
kittygirl, I think it's misogynist because it's a boundary violation issue. He's putting his feelings above theirs. Yeah, you don't want someone starting from a position of DISTRUST (because then they're likely not very open or emotionally available), but expecting unearned trust and for them to drop their standards because you want them to isn't respectful at all.
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alice
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Post by alice on Aug 11, 2020 0:13:35 GMT
alice -I have a friend (a guy) who gets upset when women don't want him to pick them up at their houses on the first date and want to meet in public. He and I have gotten into full on yelling matches about this (I say it's perfectly normal as women are often CONCERNED FOR THEIR LITERAL SAFETY) Aand he thinks it comes across as "rude because it's like they don't trust me". I say "They DONT trust you! They don't f**king know you!" and he says all sorts of crap about how it's a totally unfair assumption etc. To me, it's a hallmark of real immaturity and (weirdly-and I can't fully explain why or how) misogyny. Like you're entitled to something you absolutely ARENT entitled to. It's unearned intimacy and it's gross. I would be extremely wary of men like this (and I am speaking as someone who has a friend who does this...BUT....full disclosure...he is misogynistic for what it's worth) I had this exact thing done to me. We still went on a date and the whole night he kept making passive aggressive comments about me not letting him pick me up. Had I encountered this today, I would have walked out in the middle of the date. |
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Post by kittygirl on Aug 11, 2020 0:17:55 GMT
kittygirl , I think it's misogynist because it's a boundary violation issue. He's putting his feelings above theirs. Yeah, you don't want someone starting from a position of DISTRUST (because then they're likely not very open or emotionally available), but expecting unearned trust and for them to drop their standards because you want them to isn't respectful at all. YES! You hit the nail on the head! (as usual ahaha) |
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alice
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Post by alice on Aug 11, 2020 0:20:33 GMT
alexandra You had it correct the first time. For instance, Alice is not my real name. Surprise! (I obviously know this is different.) I am not sure if I can change my profile now to make it more obvious. In this instance, we had a bit of back and forth online for three days and agreed to a call tomorrow. I texted him and used my real name (forgetting I hadn't explained it yet!). I don't wait very long, but I usually make a habit of clarifying when we exchange numbers or get on a call. One way MAYBE I relate is a man who lies about his age. For instance the other day a "40" year old messaged me and then at the end of the profile, he said he's not 40 but he's 50 and can't change it. How did you make that mistake to begin with? They're just adjusting their age so younger women will consider them. I don't see any excuse for that though, where anonymity online is a common occurrence.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 11, 2020 0:48:27 GMT
alice right, but even in that case, would you lose your temper and berate a guy when he revealed his age to you? Personally, I'd be put off and exit the conversation and end the connection, but I wouldn't get aggressive about it because I'm an adult and don't even know this person... they can do what they want, and I'll choose not to be a part of it. So that's why I was saying no matter what caused him to get upset, bad day or experience or felt personally offended by you, he can tell you how he feels without overreacting. That's the ick factor for me here. It's tough out there, but if you keep walking from the ones who aren't what you're looking for, you're more likely to recognize the ones you are looking for if they appear. It's all good learning. Really, really annoying learning, but ultimately good 
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alice
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Post by alice on Aug 11, 2020 1:10:54 GMT
alexandra I'm pretty sure I've graduated the course by this point. lol.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 1:25:35 GMT
alice -I have a friend (a guy) who gets upset when women don't want him to pick them up at their houses on the first date and want to meet in public. He and I have gotten into full on yelling matches about this (I say it's perfectly normal as women are often CONCERNED FOR THEIR LITERAL SAFETY) Aand he thinks it comes across as "rude because it's like they don't trust me". I say "They DONT trust you! They don't f**king know you!" and he says all sorts of crap about how it's a totally unfair assumption etc. To me, it's a hallmark of real immaturity and (weirdly-and I can't fully explain why or how) misogyny. Like you're entitled to something you absolutely ARENT entitled to. It's unearned intimacy and it's gross. I would be extremely wary of men like this (and I am speaking as someone who has a friend who does this...BUT....full disclosure...he is misogynistic for what it's worth) exactly what I mean about this insecurity and taking it personally!! It's not like you have PROVEN your trustworthiness and you expect women to trust you, despite every other piece of information signalling it's not necessarily safe for women!!! I've had once gone on a date where i told him i have just moved to a new country and it's therefore unsafe for me because I'm not too familiar with the places yet. Despite me putting it upfront like that, he started joking about how he knows where I live and he's going to hang around to see which door I come out from.  you cannot discuss or argue with people like that. my safety comes first and foremost!!! and if they're not even aware of this now, i'm pretty sure they'll be terrible partners who will ignore any of your needs. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 1:31:09 GMT
@shiningstar alexandra Everything else in my profile is real. I put out a LOT of information about myself. And since screen names are a common online occurrence, I don't see how it is harmful. alexandra , I understand what you are saying, but I need some mutual objectivity on this, I guess. And the answer is to move on. I just found his reaction to be rude, and I won't be treated that way. definitely. I mean, it's one thing to be abit miffed because they feel unsafe as well (scammers) but it's a completely different level to be upset about it. It's not only rude, but it's a red flag in my opinion. I tried to be understanding and make accommodations in the past for their feelings/reactions, but I find that it's best just to protect my own interests/safety first and foremost and if some dude can't deal with that, well, how can i ever be sure in his ability to prioritize my well-being? As long as you are presenting yourself somewhat authentically (e.g. Lizzie instead of Elizabeth), you just gotta move on swiftly and find someone who agrees with your approach of protecting yourself. |
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alice
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Post by alice on Aug 11, 2020 2:20:20 GMT
I figured out I can change my "screen name" on this site, so I'm going to make it more obvious that the name is a screen name, so I don't have to explain. Not that I think I did anything wrong, but it just alleviates the issue. So many early conversations go nowhere, that when they do go on for maybe a week, I let them know at this point. It was 2-3 days for this guy. I honestly didn't even remember his name until I went to text him.
Maybe if a guy pulled on me "hey my name is really Larry...." and the name Larry is really a deal breaker for me.... Actually that happened once. A guy I liked a decent amount went by his middle name and his first name is a more unattractive name, lol, but that would be pretty petty to have an issue with that.
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Post by anne12 on Aug 11, 2020 6:31:36 GMT
There are some men, who are not aware of how it feels to be a woman walking in the world today: They are totally unconscious about this. They have never felt unsafe themselves. "That the experience of the feminine in the world often includes feeling unsafe, and if they wish that their partner/date/female friend can relax into her feminine, they must include this in awareness as they lead her." A lot of women knows the key trick, when walking alone in the dark. Some men are learners and others are not. I like this clip from a workshop with John Wineland. All unconscious men should watch this imo. (And some women could also benefit from watching this clip) m.youtube.com/watch?v=S9T54qGziwo
Theres a chance, that a guy who wants to pick you up or who wants to drive you home, just wants to provide for you. Trying to recieving his offer with grace, saying thank you, that is very thoughtful of you and then explaining why is too early for you as a woman to take his offer, could be a way to watch how he responds.
He could be totally unconscious about the feeling of feeling unsafe as a woman. Or he could just be creapy,/not respecting boundaries/angry at his mom and other female caregivers/relatives, teachers, who didn't receive him with grace as a child...?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 9:14:36 GMT
I have used this as a way to suss out the other party- putting upfront my concerns of safety as a woman, particularly in a different country, and online dating. The reactions are VERY telling. There're 3 types of people:
1. did not care and likely will not care in the future (ala my story above) >> run!
2. indifferent >> depends on whether he just doesn't care or he's unsure what to do and lets me take the lead in making decisions around places etc.
3. listens >> watches his own behavior, checks in if you're ok with it, and asks for your opinions/preferences. Proffers options. Do not assume that "safe" is the same for everyone and imposes that on you.
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alice
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Post by alice on Aug 12, 2020 23:57:03 GMT
@shiningstar I need more "sussing" out techniques. I naturally do some of them. For instance, in this last situation, I did say sorry initially that I caused any confusion but explained myself. I only apologized for confusion not because I did anything wrong. But I told him his reaction was not one I find acceptable in the respect I expect to receive. He gave some explanation on his end but did not apologize. I didn't answer him and he blocked me. I rarely block anyone and to me, I think his entire reaction showed me I did the right thing in walking.
I actually used something you suggested further back...I can't remember where you said it. I added a "code word" to my profile. I made it easy by putting it at the top and it's worked quite well. Several men use it. I made it fun, so it wasn't like I was putting myself up on some pedestal. But still so many men send generic messages like they've read my profile "I see we have a lot in common" but don't make any mention of the code word. So, great idea there. It's amazing how little respect there is in the dating world today.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 13, 2020 18:59:22 GMT
alice, not sure you need further sussing out techniques than you've already added actually, because it seems like you're doing just fine quickly figuring out who has attachment or character issues at this point. You can't perfectly pre-filter and do need to spend a little bit of time talking to people to know. You're not getting actually involved in real relationships with men that should be filtered out, so I think if you keep leaning in to building more security in yourself on your end, you'll be good and naturally recognize when you've found a better option. I know very well it's frustrating when it seems like there's a very small pool that meets what you're looking for, though. I'm pro being non-negotiable about only searching for matches in your must-have list (I constructed my list to result in guys who are in a similar life stage to me, which is hugely important in making this all easier), then talking to those matches a bit from there with an open mind, and that being sufficient sussing. Those apps and websites are always suggesting widening the search... when I do that (out of frustration at the small pool) it always created much worse matches and time wasters.
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alice
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Post by alice on Aug 13, 2020 21:25:07 GMT
alexandra I think that describes it pretty perfectly and I've had your same experience.
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