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Post by boomerang on May 24, 2020 7:48:21 GMT
At the beginning of the year, I went through a painful experience that I'm still trying to make sense of, and wondering if my guy is FA (I'm AP) or whether he just had a shockingly abrupt change of heart. I was with a DA previously, and so feel I understand that dynamic some, but not sure whether attachment plays a role in this case or not.
I started dating a very attractive divorced guy, an adrenaline chasing, extreme-adventure type, shortly before he went away for his job for several months and not too long before I was moving to a new city for my own job. He seemed to really like me-- he asked me not to move, later asked me to come back, asked me not to date anyone else, said he wasn't going to either, talked about coming to see me, etc. Not realistic since it was such a young relationship and now LDR, but he sure made me feel like he really wanted this to continue, and I started wanting that too.
Eventually tho, I realized I could never pin him down to actual dates to come visit me or even meet halfway, so after about five months of this--despite the fact that I was really hooked by this point --I told him it was OK with me if he saw other people since we were not longer living in the same place. To which he did not respond at all (??) but instead, continued texting as before.
Finally, I went back for a short visit. And the first night was great. He could not have been happier to see me, or more warm and affectionate and I was the same way, too. But the next day was the polar opposite.
Between these two nights, he came came under pressure as he dropped the ball on things he said he'd take care of and suddenly realized that a) we had no place to stay my last night and that b) he had to spend my last day there taking care of some things for his kids when c) I was expecting to spend my last day with him as we had planned.
He ended up juggling me and his kids (left me to go to them--left them to get me to a hotel--left me alone in hotel to go back to them, several hours late), when each of us thought we'd have the whole day with him. So, he was aware that everyone was at least a little unhappy. It was clear while he was driving us around trying to find a free hotel room that he was very stressed. He and I did not fight at all, though I expect he got grief from his ex as he didn't get all the kid stuff done (and could easily have done it earlier).
In any event, when he came back to me that evening around 8 to go to movies, he was totally shut down. I mean totally: When I went to hug him, he pulled back; at the movies, I put my hand on his and he moved it away, I kissed him on the cheek and he looked alarmed. We went out to eat and he did not want to talk with me, was reading on his phone. He basically did not want to look at me or touch me, and I felt quite strongly that he wished I wasn't there. I think he only stayed with me in the hotel that night because he knew I expected him to. Later he told me he was just really tired, and he apologized for being so tired. But--that tired? Two months later, I asked what changed for him while I was there, but he just repeated that he had been tired.
But...it felt like more of an emotional than a physical shutdown to me, so I'm wondering if there is a way I can make sense of it in terms of attachment? As it is, I feel like he was just suddenly repulsed by me ("real me" not measuring up to "remembered me", or just finding he was not attracted to me after all), which is not a nice feeling...
The sequel to this is that after the visit, we continued texting and once he talked again about coming to see me--but I realized I was doing all the initiating and he was less and less engaged, so I just quietly stopped reaching out a month ago. Not a peep from him since.
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Post by mrob on May 24, 2020 8:35:21 GMT
Sometimes, the fantasy is good but the reality is just too hard. You don’t know what pushback he was getting from the other end to influence his behaviour on that last day, either.
I don’t think it’s just you, but it’s certainly information for you to make a decision about what your actions are from here.
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Post by boomerang on May 24, 2020 16:27:28 GMT
Sometimes, the fantasy is good but the reality is just too hard. You don’t know what pushback he was getting from the other end to influence his behaviour on that last day, either. I don’t think it’s just you, but it’s certainly information for you to make a decision about what your actions are from here. Thanks, Mrob. Indeed. There is no doubt he was full on into the fantasy thing since all of this was over the top given the fact that we didn't really know each other well--and I got seduced by his fantasy, too.
Much as I hate it, I do think the fantasy didn't match the reality for him. I am not the same as his fantasy person.
I guess I'll never know what triggered him or whether he is FA, so can't understand it in any way that I can "rationalize" into not being personal, about me.
But in any case, you are right that I have information about the way forward. I do not think there is any way forward with him--his attention has clearly shifted elsewhere.
But, what I can try to do is develop/prepare new ways to better respond when I am triggered myself. It's all a learning experience in managing one's own reactions/relating in human relationships, recognizing when an action is coming from a trigger/protectiveness rather than from a place of connection/communication, I guess.
I wish in retrospect I had addressed it directly that last morning while it was happening, instead of stepping back emotionally into myself when he wouldn't hug me back before I left...I was too triggered by then, though, myself. Two triggered people means at least one has to have tools at hand to cut the trigger auto response, and I was probably the better placed to do it as I am aware but...I didn't have the resources at the time.
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Post by alexandra on May 24, 2020 17:16:06 GMT
I wish in retrospect I had addressed it directly that last morning while it was happening, instead of stepping back emotionally into myself when he wouldn't hug me back before I left...I was too triggered by then, though, myself. Two triggered people means at least one has to have tools at hand to cut the trigger auto response, and I was probably the better placed to do it as I am aware but...I didn't have the resources at the time. It's part of the AP pattern to keep looking back and ruminating over the "perfect" thing that could have been done, the correct magic formula that would have gotten your needs met if you just selected it. This is a fallacy based on learning to regulate the inconsistent caretakers earlier in your life to try to sometimes get your needs met. His state of triggering was neither your fault nor your responsibility. If your, "I should have..." is something you could have done to better respect yourself and practice direct communication, okay, maybe. Learn that lesson and keep moving forward. But nothing you did would have changed the outcome of the situation because it doesn't sound like it was about you at all, beyond that you chose an unavailable partner. This had nothing to do with you not living up to the fantasy. It entirely had to do with a fantasy was all he could offer, and that only works for so long. I personally stay away from adrenaline junkies. They need a lot of extreme stimulation and variety to feel alive and whole, and it keeps them closed off as they are always seeking a new challenge / something else and it's very difficult for them to be present for the regular day to day. That's usually related to them not knowing how to self-regulate if they're feeling emptiness. I can see why you were swept away by this. He made it sound romantic when you were safely at a distance (don't move! Stay with me!), but when words and actions don't align, remember that's the biggest red flag. He was all talk, from well before you visited. The actual issue here has to do with flipping the narrative. You don't need to do anything differently except keeping working on your own security so that you'll choose more available partners who can show up, if that's what you're looking for. |
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AM
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Post by AM on May 24, 2020 17:34:30 GMT
Dear Boomerang, even if you'd attempted to address what was happening while it was happening in the moment, there may have been a good chance the outcome would've been much different than what you would have expected....to the negative realm, with anger out of left field being triggered rather than mere disassociation, distancing, etc being activated. In relating to a DA and unresolved trauma individual, this has been a common, out of nowhere response. Not insight, not understanding, not validation, not reciprocity or vulnerability, but uncharacteristic lashing out, much not even related to what was happening in the moment. Unless you are trained, psychologically, emotionally etc. (therapist) or are securely Secure and have your eyes wide open, able to not take some things personally or get lost in the inevitable transference, then understand that what is going on within him (DA) has nothing to do with you. Know that there was nothing you could have said or done to have changed the outcome, and you are blessed that whatever distancing strategies used did not have a more dramatic or traumatic outcome upon you.
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Post by boomerang on May 26, 2020 11:36:14 GMT
I wish in retrospect I had addressed it directly that last morning while it was happening, instead of stepping back emotionally into myself when he wouldn't hug me back before I left...I was too triggered by then, though, myself. Two triggered people means at least one has to have tools at hand to cut the trigger auto response, and I was probably the better placed to do it as I am aware but...I didn't have the resources at the time. It's part of the AP pattern to keep looking back and ruminating over the "perfect" thing that could have been done, the correct magic formula that would have gotten your needs met if you just selected it. This is a fallacy based on learning to regulate the inconsistent caretakers earlier in your life to try to sometimes get your needs met. His state of triggering was neither your fault nor your responsibility. If your, "I should have..." is something you could have done to better respect yourself and practice direct communication, okay, maybe. Learn that lesson and keep moving forward. But nothing you did would have changed the outcome of the situation because it doesn't sound like it was about you at all, beyond that you chose an unavailable partner. This had nothing to do with you not living up to the fantasy. It entirely had to do with a fantasy was all he could offer, and that only works for so long. I personally stay away from adrenaline junkies. They need a lot of extreme stimulation and variety to feel alive and whole, and it keeps them closed off as they are always seeking a new challenge / something else and it's very difficult for them to be present for the regular day to day. That's usually related to them not knowing how to self-regulate if they're feeling emptiness. I can see why you were swept away by this. He made it sound romantic when you were safely at a distance (don't move! Stay with me!), but when words and actions don't align, remember that's the biggest red flag. He was all talk, from well before you visited. The actual issue here has to do with flipping the narrative. You don't need to do anything differently except keeping working on your own security so that you'll choose more available partners who can show up, if that's what you're looking for. Alexandra, thank you so much for the above. It made me feel better. This was a really devastating rejection and one that seemed to confirm my deeply rooted worst fears/self beliefs, that many of us here share, as it was such a sudden turnaround and felt so specifically personal.
The top reason I wish I had addressed it at the time was because I was left not understanding what he was thinking/feeling and so instead left feeling it was me. With my former DA love a few years ago, I started out directly addressing things, but learned not to as he would then shut down and disappear for a month or more--so I learned not to do it. I regret learning this. It's a fear based suppression of myself for fear of consequences (hearing something I don't want to hear, abandonment). And yet, in this situation at the New Year, I did it again.
And as you note, the underlying reason is that I feel that if we had been able to communicate, this might have been fixed in some way (which probably would just have been me feeling better in the moment, I realize). But as I am thinking now, I reflect that it's a long way from here to there. Even if I had asked what was happening, no matter how calmly, chances are I would not have had any real response from him in that state. Or maybe ever. I think you are quite right (and thank you highlighting this) that all he had to offer was a fantasy. That rings true for me. Still, I wish for my own self-respect that I had not suppressed myself from fear.
I thought maybe he was FA, and overwhelmed by the closeness the night before, which was why I posted in this section, but it really doesn't matter, does it. What you wrote captures the nature of this and whether he is DA/FA or whatever, he is not an available partner.
RE the adrenaline junky part, I believe that, too. He seems to have an extraordinary amount of internal stress. A friend who is a therapist said the same thing, he cannot regulate his emotions well and he uses extreme experiences to manage that, that his emotions push him for that release. If he cannot do that, he heads to the wilderness alone. It makes me feel sympathy for him. We've all got our stuff.
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Post by boomerang on May 26, 2020 12:08:22 GMT
Dear Boomerang, even if you'd attempted to address what was happening while it was happening in the moment, there may have been a good chance the outcome would've been much different than what you would have expected....to the negative realm, with anger out of left field being triggered rather than mere disassociation, distancing, etc being activated. In relating to a DA and unresolved trauma individual, this has been a common, out of nowhere response. Not insight, not understanding, not validation, not reciprocity or vulnerability, but uncharacteristic lashing out, much not even related to what was happening in the moment. Unless you are trained, psychologically, emotionally etc. (therapist) or are securely Secure and have your eyes wide open, able to not take some things personally or get lost in the inevitable transference, then understand that what is going on within him (DA) has nothing to do with you. Know that there was nothing you could have said or done to have changed the outcome, and you are blessed that whatever distancing strategies used did not have a more dramatic or traumatic outcome upon you. Wow-- I never even thought about that. But, for sure, there was a lot of pent up emotion in him--it came out in his voice (agitation). I never felt unsafe with him, but if he had lashed out verbally--wow. I don't know how I would have responded. And given his challenges regulating his emotions (which I was totally unaware of at the time), I guess I really am fortunate that the worst I had to deal with was the physical and emotional withdrawal. As bad as that was/is.
And I think you all are right: there is nothing I could have done to change the outcome. I wish there were, though, of course. This was/is all very, very painful for me. I was so excited to see him, and so open--the worst is I felt/feel so foolish for thinking this could have been real. Trusting it. I cannot convey how shocking the change was in his demeanor to me.
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Post by mrob on May 26, 2020 12:36:49 GMT
That’s the lesson to learn from this. It’s time for you to sweep your side of the street. Find out what it is in you that makes you ruminate and obsess over someone or a situation that doesn’t work. This is a great place to start.
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Post by alexandra on May 26, 2020 18:49:54 GMT
I think the other helpful thing to do here is think about your assumption that things not working out = abandonment. That's a typical AP / anxious perspective, and one that I shared for many years. But you aren't actually being abandoned unless you also abandon yourself. It was helpful for me to consider, certainly, since AP (and anxious side FA) patterns are at their core attempting to manage fear of (external) abandonment.
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