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Post by tnr9 on Jun 17, 2020 14:09:09 GMT
One thing that is really important when internet dating is just being responsible for you....you owe these men nothing....they paid for the same service and are likely talking to many women as well. You only need to convey yourself....what you need, what you are looking for...and stick to that. That is what a good boundary does...it says...this is me...I don’t know if you fit yet but I am telling you who I am. There is no need to tell them why they aren’t a fit.....they just aren’t...and that is ok. There are literally millions of men in the world....so it is perfectly fair to say...nope, next.....and be done with it. Trust yourself.
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Post by kittygirl on Jun 17, 2020 15:20:28 GMT
And, of course, this morning at 8 am I get the dreaded "good morning" text. I don't have any advice as I am TERRIBLE at boundaries (I am currently taking Thais Gibsons course on boundaries and needs and it is helping me so much. I literally didn't even really have an idea of what a "boundary" even was as embarrassing as that is) but THIS made me laugh out loud as someone who truly "gets it". The thought of getting a "good morning" text (even just living it THROUGH you!) gives me ACTUAL anxiety. AHHH! Apart from that, I wasn't crazy about several of his other texts either (I read them as either controlling/manipulative or overly jealous which I'm so sensitive to and as a result could be my own narrative but would make me want to bolt faster than almost anything).
I applaud you for doing this and for updating us as it can really help us all to experience this growth and see how others are doing it. Thank you!
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Post by seeking on Jun 17, 2020 20:51:59 GMT
Tr9, you are kind. I would just not respond, which is what I usually do - no lengthy explanation. I just couldn't tell if this is someone I'd eve *try* with given his behavior. I'm still learning so much.
At any rate, yes, that was all guy #4. I never responded to his good morning text, and he either blocked me or disappeared from the dating site. That's too much. Sorry.
I seem to be "testing" these other guys and while in a relationship, I would never go like a week without hearing from or responding to someone, I like that they can bounce back from it and are appropriate in that they are not reacting to it like this guy did. And that - esp. given our quarantine stuff - are willing to take it slow, have some phone calls, not push for more right now. This guy was like "Oh, all that COVID stuff, I don't buy it."
I like your use of the word compatibility here - like "hey, let's talk more soon until we can get to know each other more and see if we're compatible."
I think I would do that with guy #1 who was also sending good morning texts every day. And I think I'm going to see if guy #2 is comfortable being friends - he mentioned that in one of our conversations, and that feels best to me. Guy #3 and I talk again tonight and he's the most promising.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 17, 2020 21:12:39 GMT
seeking, to answer your initial question. Anxious side attachment is conscious fear of abandonment and unconscious fear of engulfment. Avoidant side attachment is conscious fear of engulfment and unconscious fear of abandonment. From your descriptions of the guys, I think you're projecting a lot on them, assuming a lot about them with little information, and projecting what you want on them without meeting them or getting to know them. There's a lot of over-analysis in respect to very little initial contact, which makes me think you're not very open and are looking for excuses to distance (kind of as you said about being avoidant right now). You're not letting the guys show you who they are. I actually don't think it's a red flag that the guy is messaging good morning or that the other guy asked if you have time to date. If you feel good morning guy is too intimate, just tell him texting so early in the day isn't part of your morning routine. He can reach out if / when he wants, but if that's bothering you then manage his expectations that you won't respond until later on. But I'm not sure why that should bother you except you're actually assigning an expectation and obligation with it in your own head. You can just ignore it until later in the day, no big deal. The other guy probably has dated single mothers before and had issues with them not actually having time to date (or perhaps they just didn't click with him and gave him that as an excuse). I don't think that's a rude question unless he keeps harping on it and making negative or competitive remarks about kids. It's totally okay not to date if you need time to focus on and connect with yourself... what are you really looking for from online dating right now if you're also somewhat closed off? I also agree with your therapist. Think of it this way... look how exacting you're trying to be in wanting these guys to be and do exactly what you want. If they're in their 40s and 50s and used to living alone and doing their own thing, can you really control for how they live their lives to your preferences? Wouldn't you be offput if they weren't really particularly open and had similar expectations of wanting you to be a certain way, especially before they got to know you? There just seems to be a lot of fear and control and projection going into this overall, which can't be fun for you and reflects something in your connection with yourself.
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Post by seeking on Jun 18, 2020 2:46:03 GMT
Alexandra, I'm not closed off. Not sure what gave you that impression. Our state is still in lock down and hasn't re-opened. Kids are home from school; it's not the easiest thing to get out and date right now. I'm meeting someone in the next couple weeks outside with masks on. That's how it is here.
I'm definitely letting the guys show me who they are. I'm spending time talking to them on the phone or on Zoom until we can actually meet up.
The good-morning guy was super creepy. I wrote about a whole bunch of other things he said. It wasn't just goodmorning (which I'm happy to ignore until I respond). I was just more putting it together as a full-picture to say "would this alarm you guys?" Because sometimes I get overly alarmed at nothing, and other times I didn't have alarms when I should have. I didn't think he was rude. I thought he was being (or feeling, to me) pushy and controlling.
I think what the fear and control (not sure about projection) is reflecting in me is the lack of boundary that my therapist was talking about. I'm trying to control things before they even happen, rather than trust myself to have boundaries as things arise. And that is something I'm actively working on.
"Anxious side attachment is conscious fear of abandonment and unconscious fear of engulfment. Avoidant side attachment is conscious fear of engulfment and unconscious fear of abandonment." <-------------------- this is BRILLIANT and a HUGE A-ha for me! Gosh, it took me years to understand this and this sums it up perfectly. I thought Anxious is ONLY fear of abandonment, and I actually think a lot of people do. So that makes total sense. It's funny though that I seem to be both - or maybe I'm just becoming more conscious of my fear of engulfment, it's been there all along.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 18, 2020 4:24:10 GMT
Alexandra, I'm not closed off. Not sure what gave you that impression. What gave me that impression was the over-analysis of all the guys and focusing on what may be wrong with each I do agree with the posts telling you to go with your gut, though. If there's other stuff bothering you about the good morning guy, then trust yourself and let it go. If you sense someone is pushy or controlling (or manipulative), then trust yourself on it and don't get involved. I'm just also recommending you look at what the guys are showing you with neutrality, openness, and curiosity, and not coming from a defensive place that gives things a negative bias. I understand not trusting yourself and therefore wanting advice, because you've had bad relationships and know you still may have trouble identifying your projected triggers versus real issues the guys bring to the table. And my advice about focusing on getting yourself more secure, so you can build the trust in your own judgement in addition to going into dating open-minded, is from my personal experience -- because I've done all the stuff we're discussing myself in the past! I'm trying to control things before they even happen, rather than trust myself to have boundaries as things arise. And that is something I'm actively working on. Yes, this is also what I'm trying to call out, so it's good you're aware of it. But the healthier boundaries naturally come with the work you do on improving your trust in yourself and your acceptance of yourself (ie that it's okay if you make a mistake or simply accepting it's okay to be you wherever you're at, I don't know enough about your attachment issues to necessarily know what self-acceptance means to you). "Anxious side attachment is conscious fear of abandonment and unconscious fear of engulfment. Avoidant side attachment is conscious fear of engulfment and unconscious fear of abandonment." <-------------------- this is BRILLIANT and a HUGE A-ha for me! Gosh, it took me years to understand this and this sums it up perfectly. I thought Anxious is ONLY fear of abandonment, and I actually think a lot of people do. So that makes total sense. It's funny though that I seem to be both - or maybe I'm just becoming more conscious of my fear of engulfment, it's been there all along. Glad that was helpful!
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Post by anne12 on Jun 18, 2020 5:54:12 GMT
How to tune into your "gut" felling - also depending on which attatchment style you've got and other tips and tricks - the nerveussystem is included .... jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1927/dating-tips-attatchment-styles-phasesseeking did you see this thread ? You are posting in the fearfull avoidant section - there are also tips on how to regulate and specific tips for fa (desorganized attatchment style). And some signs that can tell you if the person is a no go before you even start to interact with the person.... The different attatchment styles reacts differently when dating - their body, their brain, their nerveussystem ect. I have posted different questions you can ask yourself depending on your attatchment style ect.
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alice
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Post by alice on Jun 18, 2020 8:38:24 GMT
What you write in your dating profile can be an invitation to the men to respond - if they don't respond at all to what you are writing ex. that you like to go to a spa and spend "a synchronized bubble baht time with chocolate dipped strawberrys and champagne" (my avoidant female friends decription) he proberly wont respond to your dating profile if that's not his thing... Or if you enjoy weekends hiking in the woods , sleeping outside, making food at the fire you proberly won't attract "a potato couch person" Or if you write that your favorite Saturday thing is spending time at home making a good dinner and playing monopoly, proberly won't attract a very outgoing and adventures guy You can start the sentence with "Do you also like to..." Decribe it with a felt sence experience.. And notice how they react to your introduction pick up line ? I know you proberly can't practice this irl right now, but just the thought of doing some of these things can make some people respond and others not to respond. As my female avoidant dismissive friend said about the spa bubble bath thing: this makes me cringe - imagining sitting that close, skin to skin, being that intimate, romantic ect - all her shadow words .... Unfortunately, my experience is that a lot of men don't really care if the information on your profile is their thing or not as long as they find you attractive. They just want you to like them, so they will ignore that information or tell you they do like those things too. I can't tell you how many men have messaged me even when they are not remotely close to fitting or relating to the information in my profile.
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Post by anne12 on Jun 18, 2020 9:47:51 GMT
Ha, ha alice yes you are probably right. Are you "testing" the men ? You are allowed to do that! Can't you just skip the men who doesn't seem to want to get to know you ? You "just" have to find one man. Women testing men: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1052/story-dating-lifeAsk questions Make your own love vision And yourself : Does it make sence that this person can fit into my own love vision ? And what about your deal breakers ? You can can maybe say: something that can make me end a relationship is xxxxxx- and see how he responds ! How does his dating profile look like ? What kind of pictures does he share ? Is he interesting in getting to know you or does he only talks about himself ? Is he interacting with you or is he only trying to impress you ? What does he say about exes, family and friends ? Does he only say: oh yeah I also like spending couple/family time at home playing monopoly or ? I can't copy paste from the dating thread right now but you can also listen to Allison Armstrong www.understandmen.com/qc_workshop/Unhealthy_Men_the_Secrets_of_Early_Detection_PAXProgramsInc_032515.mp3Finding out if he is a type A or a type B man
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alice
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Post by alice on Jun 18, 2020 19:34:14 GMT
Ha, ha alice yes you are probably right. Are you "testing" the men ? You are allowed to do that! Can't you just skip the men who doesn't seem to want to get to know you ? You "just" have to find one man. Women testing men: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1052/story-dating-lifeAsk questions Make your own love vision And yourself : Does it make sence that this person can fit into my own love vision ? And what about your deal breakers ? You can can maybe say: something that can make me end a relationship is xxxxxx- and see how he responds ! How does his dating profile look like ? What kind of pictures does he share ? Is he interesting in getting to know you or does he only talks about himself ? Is he interacting with you or is he only trying to impress you ? What does he say about exes, family and friends ? Does he only say: oh yeah I also like spending couple/family time at home playing monopoly or ? I can't copy paste from the dating thread right now but you can also listen to Allison Armstrong www.understandmen.com/qc_workshop/Unhealthy_Men_the_Secrets_of_Early_Detection_PAXProgramsInc_032515.mp3Finding out if he is a type A or a type B man Re: testing...Oh, I have gotten better at this, but I didn't used to be so great! I'll check out these resources. Thanks!
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Post by seeking on Jun 21, 2020 1:37:54 GMT
seeking did you see this thread ? You are posting in the fearfull avoidant section - there are also tips on how to regulate and specific tips for fa (desorganized attatchment style). Which thread? Am I not fearful avoidant? I thought I was!?
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Post by anne12 on Jun 21, 2020 3:13:05 GMT
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Post by mrob on Jun 21, 2020 3:41:39 GMT
Is anyone interested in this from a man’s point of view?
Firstly, all this talk about “gut”. Gut is what got most of us here in the first place. If gut worked, I wouldn’t be here. I would be secure and living happily ever after, tiptoeing through the tulips. I’ve needed my gut to be deprogrammed, just as I’ve needed to be deprogrammed in many other parts of my life.
Secondly, this is a place where people share in a general way, but there are things that people say that may seem small, but change everything. Things that give a real indication of people’s motivation. If half the information is shared, you’ll only get half an answer. The “good morning” text is a great example. Every woman I’ve seen wants that in the very least. Consistency, to know they’re in my mind, so on. I understand that once engulfment is reached, everything else is a pressure. I get that. But I beg you to put yourself in someone else’s shoes. Try and get past the dysfunction of insecure attachment and have some compassion.
Also, asking whether you have the time... I think that’s a valid question. I had coffee with a lady recently who could never have time for me, but was on a dating site. I had to make that assessment and see if that fitted with my life. I have the right to make that assessment as a sovereign individual. That’s probably some of the biggest news for me out of attachment theory is that I can decide what’s right for me. I just have to act in a reasonable, compassionate way.
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alice
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Post by alice on Jun 21, 2020 4:07:30 GMT
That’s probably some of the biggest news for me out of attachment theory is that I can decide what’s right for me. I just have to act in a reasonable, compassionate way. It's more about honestly communicating this. Most people don't because they don't want to turn you off because they miss out on having you in a way that they see fit that may not be in line with what you are looking for. A lot of people require autonomy but don't give it in return. Or vice verse. This is an excellent point.
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Post by mrob on Jun 21, 2020 4:15:39 GMT
Absolutely, alice regarding communication. I had to come from a point before that, though. Like others on this thread, I had no boundaries. I wanted you to like me so much that I’d tolerate any behaviour. That I didn’t have the right to speak up, that I was being difficult, and if I was difficult, you’d leave, and that was too much to bear after I’d compromised so much to have you like me. It’s all a terrible roundabout.
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