alice
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Posts: 128
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Post by alice on Jun 21, 2020 7:16:57 GMT
Of course there is a pattern. FA is the lovely stable combination of AP and DA. That’s why some call it “disorganised”. alice , I thought so too, then I became increasingly anxious. Insecure attachment is no win. Do you ever have the repulsion effect? I never was anxious at the beginning of a relationship or dating. It was always because someone flipped on me. |
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Post by mrob on Jun 21, 2020 8:29:33 GMT
Of course there is a pattern. FA is the lovely stable combination of AP and DA. That’s why some call it “disorganised”. alice , I thought so too, then I became increasingly anxious. Insecure attachment is no win. Do you ever have the repulsion effect? I never was anxious at the beginning of a relationship or dating. It was always because someone flipped on me. How do you mean flipped? My repulsion is directly related to engulfment. Most people take a while to be at ease, then when they do, all the cohabitation and happily ever after comes out. That’s when I “flip”, if you like. From beginning to end, and totally unaware is my origin story. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/532/ it makes for scary reading. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 21, 2020 11:37:52 GMT
Oh yes alice , definitely not being engulfed is on the top of my list. I don’t go for challenges. I feel inferior to most women, so that low self esteem ensures that one will be a self fulfilling prophecy, so I don’t go there. Interesting. Does anyone think there is a pattern in this? AP find the Avoidant attractive and pursues Avoidant to earn love FA find the Avoidant attractive and pursues Avoidant to avoid engulfment I think I fall more into the latter...I would say me being attracted to someone who seems independent would satisfy my desire to not be engulfed. Hey Alice....on the flip side of being completely into someone avoidant.....I am absolutely repulsed if someone is too into me. Case in point, there was a guy in my group who I thought really, really liked me...he reached out via FB messenger (Even though we are not friends) and gave me a compliment that I felt was “over the top”. I avoided him like the plague, built up walls....the thought in my mind was “he wants something I can’t give him and even if I could give it, I would not want to give it to him”. Extremely paranoid and judgmental. And again, built on this love must be earned concept...in my entitled mind, he did not earn it. I am working with my therapist on a better system...because either being all in (AP) or completely repulsed (Avoidant) is very taxing and is for me, a super old coping mechanism of trying to control who gets my attention, love etc. |
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Post by kittygirl on Jun 21, 2020 12:36:47 GMT
Anyway, I really pine for people who are aloof and dismissive because it feels so much safer (and makes me "feel something") when I am the pursuer. It's sort of the only way I can "feel anything" for someone which is embarrassing and effed up to even write down. But just as you experienced, once that affection is returned I really get turned off (can almost turn into repulsion-like a grossed out feeling).
Do you feel like pursuing someone in this way makes you feel like you've won something or earned something priceless or solved a puzzle in a way that other people would not be able to achieve? alice -you've already gotten such great insight here, but I'm excited because for once this is one is extremely easy for me to answer! First of all, know that the "feeling something" is simply my anxious attachment wounds being inflamed and ignited to high hell. For someone who is so often in the avoidant camp which largely feels like a "lack of feelings" my brain literally tells me "ok you are feeling totally insecure, totally freaked out, obsessive and out of control..weeee this must be love!!" So just so it's clear what i meant-it's not ACTUAL love I'm feeling at all, It's not even actual feelings...it's just a lack of numbness which comes from attachment wounds. To answer the second part, for me, it's 100% about my parents (but mostly my dad). PERIOD. I am chasing an unavailable partner in order to "win" the UNCONDITIONAL love I so desperately craved as a child. Once I get it, at first, its elation. Like a joy you almost cant describe. But once that part wears off, and I realize they are sticking around, my feelings become almost numb (it's horrific for me. I feel utterly ashamed of it). But here's what I realize now is happening on that part-the other side of the coin for me is i have ZERO model on how to be emotionally affectionate or present with another person (again, my parents). mrob had mentioned this about himself once and that's when the lightbulb EXPLODED for me. So the way my brain deals with that overload is to simply shutdown and become "bored" (coping mechanism) become irritated (coping mechanism) repulsed (coping mechanism) and ultimately to lose interest (coping mechanism). Sadly and ultimately (and this part is so hard to write or admit) it's really not about the other person at all, is it? They could all be droids programmed to respond a certain way to me and it would be the same. Forever walking the earth trying to win everyone over but it's a VOID inside of me that simply isn't fixable with another person. Hell, my dad could probably change a large part of who he is now and it wouldn't matter. In addition, I expect (not fear, EXPECT) for everyone to let me down, so once a real tangible relationship is in front of me, it terrifies me to think of what would happen to me if I trusted them enough to go for it. No no, I'll take my affections from over here, thank you very much. For what it's worth, my parents have said "i love you" to me a handful of times my whole life, and my brother and I (both in our 30s) have never once said it to each other despite describing each other as "best friends". I bring this up because have you ever seen him interact with his family? This may be HUGE insight for you.
As funny as this sounds, part of me thinks we should have some sort of thing where we a) meet all the exes of our partners and they meet ours so we all realize "oh shit this is happening to ALL of us together! How fun!" and b) we see how our partners interact with their families. I bet this answers so much of these questions for us.
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Post by annieb on Jun 21, 2020 15:05:20 GMT
Wow Kittigirl, you really summed it up. Especially the shame of being irritated with their love once they reciprocate. It’s been a total rollercoaster of emotions and it’s embarrassing and shameful. This all came out with the last guy that I seriously dated as well, and the one after that was not as serious, but I was still getting activated. I went through the full gamut of these emotions and I simply cannot do this again. It’s the most exhausting experience. I stay in the “secure” mindset for a few weeks and the something snaps, and I’m back at it again. And by the time I start to cognitively approach my reaction and correct it, I’m already in this painful hole.
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Post by kittygirl on Jun 21, 2020 16:04:09 GMT
God YES YES YES! I will be doing so well and then BOOM some little thing happens and I feel like I have taken so many steps back. I become a wreck. I hate it. It feels so defeating. Especially because I will be literally feeling and thinking in a secure way. And then it goes into such a terrible tailspin. I am experiencing this at the moment. Highly triggered and trying not to freak. Thank GOD for this forum is all I can say
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Post by alexandra on Jun 21, 2020 17:33:49 GMT
We stayed together another year because I think he felt so dumb longing for me and changing his mind as soon as he really had me (and we were very close friends for a long time first, he wasn't surprised by who I actually was or anything when we went official), plus he was avoidant and avoiding the entire thing. He just got super resentful and callous because I didn't perfectly magically fix all his mental health issues through my mere existence... and I blamed myself and stuck around, getting anxious and codependent. Oooh, I like your point, annieb. What I'm describing here, being on the receiving end of it, was probably less that he felt dumb and more that he felt shame, before he felt resentment (perhaps a coping mechanism to project and diffuse the shame). And kittygirl, describing your partners as might as well be droids because it's your issues in spite of the partners. Well said. This is why attachment theory works and is predictable. The dynamic between two inputs (FA meet AP, FA meet DA, FA meet secure etc...) is always the same within each pairing. |
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alice
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by alice on Jun 21, 2020 18:59:05 GMT
How do you mean flipped? My repulsion is directly related to engulfment. Most people take a while to be at ease, then when they do, all the cohabitation and happily ever after comes out. That’s when I “flip”, if you like. From beginning to end, and totally unaware is my origin story. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/532/ it makes for scary reading. By flipped, I mean that they went from liking me immensely to suddenly pulling away (maybe deactivation?). It happens pretty starkly. To me at least, out of nowhere. What do you mean by "at ease"? |
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Post by mrob on Jun 24, 2020 0:53:19 GMT
Absolutely my experience.
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Post by dhali on Jun 24, 2020 2:16:22 GMT
I just can't believe I didn't see this with all the knowledge I have. alice-it's funny this should come up now, because I have been struggling with how to even approach this on here myself (for weeks now) and since this is coming up relatively organically I can tell you I recently discovered ("discovered") that I am FA (it's a long story that I will reserve for it's own post but included seeing an attachment specialist who was like "uhhhh do you not realize you're FA?"). It's so so SO hard to see this stuff when youre IN it...like it's my own reality so how on earth can I know something different? I have read so much about attachment, felt like I was really informed but it wasn't until recently that I was BLOWN AWAY (like it felt like my world was turned upside down) did I realize this. I cried and cried at first ha. Anyway, I really pine for people who are aloof and dismissive because it feels so much safer (and makes me "feel something") when I am the pursuer. It's sort of the only way I can "feel anything" for someone which is embarrassing and effed up to even write down. But just as you experienced, once that affection is returned I really get turned off (can almost turn into repulsion-like a grossed out feeling). INSANE that I experienced this my entire life and never put the pieces together-EVEN WITH all that I know! Just shows HOW HARD this attachment stuff really is. Thanks for sharing. My realization came after a breakup with, what I thought was a dismissive avoidant at the time. She’s an FA, most likely, and had some pretty bizarre behavior in the end. Anyhow the intermittent reenforcement and the love bombing threw me for a loop. So in trying to heal I went out on a few dates. Definitely not ready at the time. Anyhow, this woman I was on a first date with was asking about my previous relationships and dating and my parents... and since it was fresh in my mind, I brought up attachment theory. Which my date knew all about. And then as I started talking about dating younger women (subconsciously doing the avoidant thing), she stopped and said- I’ve never quite been on a date like this before. We are talking about avoidant attachment, and everything you’ve described to me on this date screams avoidant. She listed off pretty much everything I said. It was a slap to the face and I denied it for a few weeks. Until I had to really consider it. And then I was able to pinpoint all the relationships I started with no intent of ever taking it anywhere, or the ones I did- the discussions I made to judge them, and not double down my efforts. It was eye opening. And if I never saw it, I’d be a lost cause. I’d be going from one woman to the next. Always crying foul. |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 24, 2020 5:33:57 GMT
I just can't believe I didn't see this with all the knowledge I have. alice-it's funny this should come up now, because I have been struggling with how to even approach this on here myself (for weeks now) and since this is coming up relatively organically I can tell you I recently discovered ("discovered") that I am FA (it's a long story that I will reserve for it's own post but included seeing an attachment specialist who was like "uhhhh do you not realize you're FA?"). It's so so SO hard to see this stuff when youre IN it...like it's my own reality so how on earth can I know something different? I have read so much about attachment, felt like I was really informed but it wasn't until recently that I was BLOWN AWAY (like it felt like my world was turned upside down) did I realize this. Don't feel too bad about it, this can be quite typical. After a few years of our back and forth, I finally told my FA ex he's FA. He said, "no I'm not, I'm AP!" I said to him, I was textbook AP, and you act nothing like I do in response to anything! It's been even more years gone by since then, and he still doesn't accept it 🤷🏻♀️ We don't talk about it, but I've brought up some mutual friends who are in troubled long-term relationships with FAs just to mention hey, fyi this friend is having a rocky time, and he starts projecting that I'm secretly talking about him (because, duh, he acts just like the FAs do, but I'm actually not referring to him at all) and gets snippy. |
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