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Post by kittygirl on Jul 2, 2020 18:27:56 GMT
I would have posted this in the Support for FAs section, but I wanted anyone to feel like they could chime in...other FAs or APs who may experience this as well
As many of you know, I recently realized (accepted??) that I am FA. I have been working on identifying my fears (trigger) and where they come from. Some of them are easy (it's clear when I get a lot of anxiety about someone leaving that it's triggering my fear of abandonment or when I start to feel trapped it's my fear of engulfment) BUT there is something I have experienced in all of my relationships that I am really struggling to identify.
I have an almost crippling fear of "losing a connection" (or "losing my feelings") for someone-particularly as I start to get closer to them. It's this horrific thing that I almost feel is just LOOMING on the horizon and could happen at any given moment. It's so awful (I almost want to cry just typing it out!!). This fear of losing the connection goes both ways-being afraid of them losing it for me or me losing it for them. When I start to feel this way...the ONLY way i feel like I can preserve my feelings is to get space. The more I like someone, the more I almost desire keeping them like on the periphery of my life. But at the same time I LIKE them so I want to spend time with them. It's literally the definition of a Catch 22. I feel like giving up sometimes.
Now I know that APs also can have an extreme fear of losing the connection with a partner (and as such can become extremely vigilant to cues of abandonment or loss of connection) but it's my understanding (maybe I'm wrong) that a typical AP reaction to that might be to move in closer? In my case, it's quite the opposite as I want to move away so I can regain those feelings of "connection" (which I'm starting to think might just be my attachment wounds being activated which is a pretty devastating thing to realize! Is nothing I feel "real"? UGH)
I don't know if this is an FA thing or whatever, but for what it's worth I was talking with my FA ex the other day and I actually just said this out loud "Does this sound insane? I'm worried about losing the connection with someone if I get to close!" and he said "no it's not insane at all it's why I'm afraid of commitment" WHOA. So does this sound familiar to anyone else? Is this because I (we) can only really engage in fantasy bonds so as real intimacy forms, I (we) lose the "connection" AKA the manufactured version of the person we have created? GOD this stuff is so hard! I am in a very frustrated place today.
Just typing this out helped. This forum is so helpful even as a place to let stuff out.
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Post by alexandra on Jul 2, 2020 19:00:16 GMT
kittygirl Yes. Sounds typical FA to me. The entire FA pattern is come-here-go-away-repeat. There's a couple related things you can think about: Anxious attachment is driven by a conscious fear of abandonment and an unconscious fear of engulfment. Avoidant attachment is driven by a conscious fear of engulfment and an unconscious fear of abandonment. Fearful avoidant attachment is a combination of all flipping between conscious and unconscious -- that's going to result in a constant state of confusing, disorganized feelings and behavior. As children, FA often had adult caretakers they both loved and feared and still needed to stay attached to for survival. The fear could be from abuse, or simply from chaos and lack of predictability / stability. Here's an overview of the Strange situation, famous early attachment research in children. It describes how FA children were contradictory and sometimes froze totally due to the come here go away confusion of their attachment styles. What you're describing is common with FA, and goes way, way back. courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-lifespandevelopment/chapter/mary-ainsworth-and-the-strange-situation-technique/(This link also mentions an example of a child with a schizophrenic parent, who has inappropriate and unpredictable responses, as another reason a child may not learn how to bond or about healthy emotional responses to things. So, having an adult caretaker with extreme mental health issues, not just schizophrenia, can create this situation as well.)
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Post by amber on Jul 3, 2020 3:38:38 GMT
about a month after I met my ex FA he said to me out of the blue "im worried this is going to stop"... I asked him what he meant , and he said "im worried the connection will stop". he didn't state is very clearly because I don't think he really understood what it meant. but reading what you have written makes sense to me... there's a fear of connection/love ending because that is the exerience the person has had in childhood...sometimes there was connection and sometimes not. or love came with abuse. or love was followed by disconnection or neglect etc etc. so whenever there's love/connection it brings up the implicit feelings of fear and loss. now this could go even way back to infancy which is preverbal and experienced by the person on purely a sensation/feeling level so it doesn't make logical or rational sense as an adult
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 4, 2020 8:37:58 GMT
I tend to be very AP in relationships so my fear is that he will find someone else/lose interest....I don’t fear losing interest because I tend to have decided that person is the one. Although, I have been in 2 longish term relationships where...after 3 years of dating, I found myself pursuing someone else, even though I was still in a relationship.
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Post by kittygirl on Jul 4, 2020 18:07:56 GMT
alexandra oh that article was great! I hadn't seen that before. Alexandra you said it so well-it's like a state of confusion the more I get into someone and the longer the relationship lasts (although ironically my last serious relationship was 10 years and was not confusing at all but that's because my "feelings" had long gone so it was really just a friendship-no sex whatsoever for years-and he was so emotionally avoidant that I was never required to step out of my comfort zone). Also, sort of unrelated (though not really), I had a therapist years ago tell me I had "Borderline personality traits" and I didn't really take that seriously but now am starting to wonder as my feelings can literally go from adoration to hatred of the same person in a short period of time which doesn't seem like a typical FA thing (though maybe?). Still putting this all together amber wow, WOW. I relate to what your ex said so much. It's like "I really really like you and I don't want this to end but if we spend too much time together, or make it too official, or ____ or ____ or ____ (you name it), the feelings might just go away". For what it's worth, it's extremely scary for the person experiencing it (at least it is for me) and that's why I will do all sorts of things to keep the person at somewhat of a distance and never EVER saturate my time with them. For your ex, his triggers could have been different but boy can I relate to that feeling. Feeling disconnected for an FA like me can almost feel like I will die and that the relationship is absolutely OVER (and I think this is EXACTLY related to what you have above! About the childhood environment). I know this is an AP fear as well, so I am sure they can relate to that, only they may be more afraid of being on the receiving end of the disconnection and not as much on the giving end (I fear both. UGH) tnr9 Yes I suppose that makes sense if you have always been paired with men who are more rigidly in the avoidant camp than you are. The thing about my FA ex and I is we tended to (and still do even though we aren't in a relationship and have frankly minimal contact) bounce off of each other and we BOTH experience the flip flopping all the time (Thais Gibson said this is actually a very common FA/FA pairing dynamic but since I hadn't read about it at all on these boards-everyone seems to be more into one side of the attachment spectrum or the other and stays there-I missed completely for the longest time that I could be FA). I am not sure how to get over the fear of losing feelings for someone (right now it is to keep them at a distance which isn't sustainable), but my therapist and I have started working a LOT on a) tracking my body sensations during the day to regularly check in with where I am and try to cultivate neutral (or good) feelings as opposed to only being aware of the really bad feelings which strengthens those neuro-connections and b) working on my perfectionism issues. I think both of these are related to this phenomenon that I experience though how, I can't say yet.
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Post by amber on Jul 5, 2020 0:08:56 GMT
alexandra oh that article was great! I hadn't seen that before. Alexandra you said it so well-it's like a state of confusion the more I get into someone and the longer the relationship lasts (although ironically my last serious relationship was 10 years and was not confusing at all but that's because my "feelings" had long gone so it was really just a friendship-no sex whatsoever for years-and he was so emotionally avoidant that I was never required to step out of my comfort zone). Also, sort of unrelated (though not really), I had a therapist years ago tell me I had "Borderline personality traits" and I didn't really take that seriously but now am starting to wonder as my feelings can literally go from adoration to hatred of the same person in a short period of time which doesn't seem like a typical FA thing (though maybe?). Still putting this all together amber wow, WOW. I relate to what your ex said so much. It's like "I really really like you and I don't want this to end but if we spend too much time together, or make it too official, or ____ or ____ or ____ (you name it), the feelings might just go away". For what it's worth, it's extremely scary for the person experiencing it (at least it is for me) and that's why I will do all sorts of things to keep the person at somewhat of a distance and never EVER saturate my time with them. For your ex, his triggers could have been different but boy can I relate to that feeling. Feeling disconnected for an FA like me can almost feel like I will die and that the relationship is absolutely OVER (and I think this is EXACTLY related to what you have above! About the childhood environment). I know this is an AP fear as well, so I am sure they can relate to that, only they may be more afraid of being on the receiving end of the disconnection and not as much on the giving end (I fear both. UGH) tnr9 Yes I suppose that makes sense if you have always been paired with men who are more rigidly in the avoidant camp than you are. The thing about my FA ex and I is we tended to (and still do even though we aren't in a relationship and have frankly minimal contact) bounce off of each other and we BOTH experience the flip flopping all the time (Thais Gibson said this is actually a very common FA/FA pairing dynamic but since I hadn't read about it at all on these boards-everyone seems to be more into one side of the attachment spectrum or the other and stays there-I missed completely for the longest time that I could be FA). I am not sure how to get over the fear of losing feelings for someone (right now it is to keep them at a distance which isn't sustainable), but my therapist and I have started working a LOT on a) tracking my body sensations during the day to regularly check in with where I am and try to cultivate neutral (or good) feelings as opposed to only being aware of the really bad feelings which strengthens those neuro-connections and b) working on my perfectionism issues. I think both of these are related to this phenomenon that I experience though how, I can't say yet. Why do you think this happens to you kitty girl ? As in, why do you think you lose feelings for someone, or lose the connection? I wonder if this is a typical FA trait. This usually doesn’t happen to me being AP with romantic r/ships but it does happen to me sometimes with friendships. I can really like a friend for a couple of years and then something changes and they start irritating me a lot; and I start questioning if we have grown apart of growing at different area. Not all friends, just some. Perhaps that’s normal. I have one friend who gives advice a lot, when we first were friends I liked this and thought it showed she was a great listener but now it just annoys the hell out of me and feels kike she is trying to fix me all the time. Thanks for sharing. Great you are in therapy and I also am trying to focus on pleasure and good feelings as I’ve realised I am all reinforcing feeling bad by focusing on bad feelings too much. |
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Post by kittygirl on Jul 5, 2020 15:39:06 GMT
amber it's a great question and I am also curious if it's an FA trait which is why I was curious if other FAs experienced it. It definitely is a thing I experience (and my ex) and your ex as well but who knows I am trying to figure out where this comes from and I have come up with a couple of things. Any other insecurely attached people might be able to recognize these A)i think that since I tend to equate "feelings" with longing, then it's inevitable that as the longing goes away (which is a natural occurrence once the relationship becomes more and more of a sure thing and more secure) those feelings of pining will disappear. For me, this means I will longer want to have sex with the other person AT ALL and so start to view them as a friend. B) I am coming to realize that I form fantasy bonds with (I'm aware it's a fantasy) others and so as I get to KNOW someone, the fantasy (which is almost akin to a drug) starts to wear off. This is why I LOVE interacting with strangers (I'm the type of person that goes to the bar with friends and disappears to hang out with other people I don't know the entire night)....is this an FA thing in general? Might be, considering strangers can be less scary to me than someone I know really well. I remember DISTINCTLY googling "why don't I miss people" several years ago after a boyfriend told me he missed me when I went on vacation and I didn't want to lie so I said nothing, and felt really bad about it. This is a pattern I experience over and over-not just with romantic relationships but with friendships and family as well. I am just sick of it happening over and over and I now have reached a point where the FEAR of it happening is enough that it's keeping me from wanting to be close
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Post by amber on Jul 5, 2020 22:35:41 GMT
This is very interesting. My ex FA had trouble missing me and didn’t say he missed me much until I brought it up. Then he would say it but not often. I think it made him feel too vulnerable.
It’s so great you have so much self awareness around all this stuff, what type of therapy are you doing? Interesting about the strangers, I’m the opposite really.i get social anxiety and would almost never go off and chat to random strangers if I was out! I do really believe these issues can be worked on and healed, but it does take a lot of effort and time. You are on the right track.
When I was in my early twenties I had similar experiences to you with men, I would get really turned off men after a period of time, especially if they were really into me.i labelled them as needy (even if they were just caring and loving) and would break up with them or cheat on them. I had an excellent cousnellor at the time who helped me see that this was a defence mechanism against pain and fear of abandonment (my feelings of disgust for men were actually a protective mechanism). I worked through this quite intensely with her on an emotional level and then was able to really open up and fall in love with my partner at the time, who I had initially friend zoned because he brought up those disgust feelings.
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Post by kittygirl on Jul 8, 2020 22:15:04 GMT
amber thank you so much for your kind words! I can say that the ONLY reason I am so self aware is because I have been on this forum for a year, and in that time have read probably every single post on here. That was the most eye opening for me. I have said it before and I will say it again, this is the single best resource on the internet (imo) The therapy is "attachment based" but it's really focused on somatic experiencing and something called "NeuroAffective Relational Model". It's a lot about getting emotions to fit into a more tolerable zone so I am not in a constant state of either totally numbing out, or literal freak out mode. I will keep you guys posted on how I get on with it all.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 10, 2020 9:20:05 GMT
amber thank you so much for your kind words! I can say that the ONLY reason I am so self aware is because I have been on this forum for a year, and in that time have read probably every single post on here. That was the most eye opening for me. I have said it before and I will say it again, this is the single best resource on the internet (imo) The therapy is "attachment based" but it's really focused on somatic experiencing and something called "NeuroAffective Relational Model". It's a lot about getting emotions to fit into a more tolerable zone so I am not in a constant state of either totally numbing out, or literal freak out mode. I will keep you guys posted on how I get on with it all. I get the whole fantasy bond and I do wonder if B and I had continued dating whether I would still be so mesmerized by him. But I think, given my history....I continued to look for ways he still met my fantasy and would extrapolate that forward. It sounds as if you do the opposite by looking at how the person is now different from the fantasy. I like talking to new people as well, but I attribute that more to being extroverted. |
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Post by kittygirl on Jul 10, 2020 15:37:37 GMT
amber thank you so much for your kind words! I can say that the ONLY reason I am so self aware is because I have been on this forum for a year, and in that time have read probably every single post on here. That was the most eye opening for me. I have said it before and I will say it again, this is the single best resource on the internet (imo) The therapy is "attachment based" but it's really focused on somatic experiencing and something called "NeuroAffective Relational Model". It's a lot about getting emotions to fit into a more tolerable zone so I am not in a constant state of either totally numbing out, or literal freak out mode. I will keep you guys posted on how I get on with it all. I continued to look for ways he still met my fantasy and would extrapolate that forward. It sounds as if you do the opposite by looking at how the person is now different from the fantasy. This is SO FASCINATING to me! Because YES when I start to get to really get to know people, I just see it as the path to INEVITABLE disappointment. I start seeing all the ways we aren't compatible. I get afraid that they will say something that really turns me off and makes me feel that crushing defeat and want to leave. So the way I protect myself from this is to seriously always keep them at arms length and I will CONSCIOUSLY try not to get to know them too well (how unbelievably messed up is that???). Now you say that you can sort of move the goal post of your fantasy bond, which I could imagine in theory but is not how I operate at all (I sort of wish I could in some ways!). Not that you have the answers to this, but do you guys suppose this is indicative of someone being more avoidant leaning vs more anxious leaning? (I know you are also FA but have been highly AP In your relationships). Or is this not attachment related at all? My bonds tend to be so highly fantasy-based (and I fantasize constantly in my day to day life as well) that I wonder if this is part of my own personal problem with relationships. So interesting how we can LL have different realities! |
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 10, 2020 18:23:46 GMT
I continued to look for ways he still met my fantasy and would extrapolate that forward. It sounds as if you do the opposite by looking at how the person is now different from the fantasy. This is SO FASCINATING to me! Because YES when I start to get to really get to know people, I just see it as the path to INEVITABLE disappointment. I start seeing all the ways we aren't compatible. I get afraid that they will say something that really turns me off and makes me feel that crushing defeat and want to leave. So the way I protect myself from this is to seriously always keep them at arms length and I will CONSCIOUSLY try not to get to know them too well (how unbelievably messed up is that???). Now you say that you can sort of move the goal post of your fantasy bond, which I could imagine in theory but is not how I operate at all (I sort of wish I could in some ways!). Not that you have the answers to this, but do you guys suppose this is indicative of someone being more avoidant leaning vs more anxious leaning? (I know you are also FA but have been highly AP In your relationships). Or is this not attachment related at all? My bonds tend to be so highly fantasy-based (and I fantasize constantly in my day to day life as well) that I wonder if this is part of my own personal problem with relationships. So interesting how we can LL have different realities! I think both (clinging to a fantasy bond or fear of losing it) are both a result of insecure attachment. A secure person would welcome getting to know a whole person. It would provide information about compatibility. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Jul 11, 2020 1:33:32 GMT
I continued to look for ways he still met my fantasy and would extrapolate that forward. It sounds as if you do the opposite by looking at how the person is now different from the fantasy. This is SO FASCINATING to me! Because YES when I start to get to really get to know people, I just see it as the path to INEVITABLE disappointment. I start seeing all the ways we aren't compatible. I get afraid that they will say something that really turns me off and makes me feel that crushing defeat and want to leave. So the way I protect myself from this is to seriously always keep them at arms length and I will CONSCIOUSLY try not to get to know them too well (how unbelievably messed up is that???). Now you say that you can sort of move the goal post of your fantasy bond, which I could imagine in theory but is not how I operate at all (I sort of wish I could in some ways!). Not that you have the answers to this, but do you guys suppose this is indicative of someone being more avoidant leaning vs more anxious leaning? (I know you are also FA but have been highly AP In your relationships). Or is this not attachment related at all? My bonds tend to be so highly fantasy-based (and I fantasize constantly in my day to day life as well) that I wonder if this is part of my own personal problem with relationships. So interesting how we can LL have different realities! Fantasising is a form of dissociation? From what I've read anyway. (I'm sure this next bit maybe painful and triggering perhaps) I guess you may have to piece together with your past what may really be the reason for the fantasising constantly as a coping mechanism perhaps? And how that may link to the 4Fs? You'd really have to explore this with a professional clearly. On a sidenote, my ex. also once asked me who my celebrity crush was in effect, she liked a particular singer at the time and sort of her language eluded to the fact this changes from time to time, I actually couldn't answer as I don't generally think about that. Does that ring a bell as well? Just wanted to also say, appreciate the sharing Kitty, very brave and courageous and it helps people like me trying to learn about all this and be mindful of others. |
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alice
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by alice on Jul 11, 2020 1:50:57 GMT
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