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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 11:38:25 GMT
Like most of you, I find it difficult to let go and get over my ex DAs and I keep coming back to online resources to help me. This forum has been especially constructive and sympathetic as members, either aware DAs or their partners, chime in to offer support, insight and advice. So this thread is for those of us who are struggling a bit to move on, or who have broken up but keep having doubts. This is particularly true due to the effects of intermittent reinforcement which can develop into an addiction for a doomed relationship: www.alleydog.com/glossary/definition.php?term=Intermittent%20ReinforcementPost here when you feel like having some encouragement and support, or if you have good anecdotes, cautionary tales, advice and strategies to help us bewildered, confused partners or former partners of DAs remind ourselves how fruitless it would be to hang on, to get through the period of withdrawal and to get a backbone. I had a LDR with my ex, we are truly well-matched in most aspects of our personality, views, attraction for each other, etc. and as our connection deepened, whenever we had a great date he would push me away for days, even weeks, with no contact. He would reconnect as if nothing were amiss. It left me miserable and astounded, and even though I know he is a classic Avoidant and broke up with him, it is still weighing on me. I still waste time and emotional space thinking about him and our relationship. I frequently fantasized that it *might* work if I do some emotional pretzels and mental acrobatics to accommodate him, even at the cost of ignoring my own needs. Even when I know deep down I will arrive at this same abyss a year or six, seven, eight, later. At such moments, I really need someone to tell it to me straight, a wake-up call. So please post here if you re in the same boat, getting over but struggling still, or if you have a good remedy for us to brace ourselves at this moment of weakness. Thank you all for your help so far, it has been invaluable. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 12:14:17 GMT
I am currently trying out two strategies to accelerate the recovering and forgetting:
1)We got a cocktail of biochemical goodies from toxic intermittent reinforcement - especially rewarding dopamine, but also oxytocin from the bonding, adrenaline like the casino fanatic, cortisol from the stress of not knowing where we are with our partners. Part of my recovery includes going dancing, eating dopamine boosting food, increasing bonding with my loved ones, empowering myself by reminding myself of my strengths, and whenever I become aware of my thoughts straying to ex DA, I throw myself into my passion for creativity. Basically I try to replenish the brain chemicals that messed up my rational, logical understanding that I need to leave this man behind and think no more of him, going No Contact.
2)I do some reality-check envisioning exercises - eg I imagine him with a new date, and I replay exactly how it went with him with I the new phantom girlfriend. I envision him not calling or messaging her after a few weeks, for days and weeks, after they get closer. I can see how miserable and withered she becomes. I also envision various confident self-loving women regarding ex DA with a skeptical eye and distancing themselves when they sense he isn't quite right, like his failed past relationships. The contrast between the two women helps to wake me up for a while. It is important for us not to lose sight of the fact that our exes probably will repeat the pattern over and over, with no good outcome for their partners.
Phew, so posting this now in the middle of my own relapse.
Stay strong!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 20:44:26 GMT
Hi Curious - useful thread and thank you for posting.
The intermittent reinforcement really is a killer when it comes to letting go - and the maddening glimmers of hope that shine in these relationships.
My relationship faltered a few times in the 6 years we were together - always the same reason, neglect from him and each time, new promises were made, we missed each other, were good together and then it started all over again only to gradually resume the same pattern.
Finding this forum was so helpful in explaining what was going on - and stopping me blaming him or myself.
In the end I worked on loving myself and came to the point where loving myself and being with him - someone who hurt me time and time again, just was mutually exclusive and I chose the former.
Every time I am tempted to get back in touch (and he keeps trying), I ask myself if I really want to sign up for more hurt - and the answer is always no... Our relationship lasted this long because I became expert at avoiding my feelings and stuffing them down. I too have avoidant tendencies and I think that in many ways me and the ex are similar and this fuelled the attraction. I am learning to heal myself - I often feel really lonely and disconnected and I now realise this is a result of childhood neglect/ abuse and have learnt to begin to feel authentically, to name my feelings and appreciate them rather than numbing them.
If I am tempted to think about him, obsess, try to help him, I try to remind myself that actually leaving and letting him hit rock bottom is likely to be the only way he ever begins to make any changes (if he ever does) - being with me was actually allowing both of us to continue to avoid the issues that had plagued our relationships by playing out the same old pattern again and again.
I believe change is only possible when there's a real motivation to do so - and hanging around accepting the behaviours that cause you pain isn't going to provide any kind of motivation and will just hurt you more.
Well done for getting this far - it's a painful uphill struggle - sounds like you have some excellent strategies in place.
Treat yourself as though you matter - that's always a good thing to remember!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 23:47:34 GMT
I hear you ocarina! But I'm hardly in the clear, strategies or no strategies. :/ Try as I might, I Talk the Talk, or rather Post the Post, Youtube the Youtube but rarely Walk the Walk.  Feel like one of those sprightly wellness guru who does pure yoga, chomps on celery stick, dreaming of her very own TED Talk during the day before succumbing to late night movies, cup cake frosting and online spying on exes misery at night. Hack, I'm going to lapse, fantasize about making up with DA, and forgive myself for being the warts-and-all human that I am. To lapse is Human, to forgive self ... Divine! Strategize all over again if that's what it takes. We just have to keep going, keep crossing, until they too, are as dismissed and avoided as we are. That tub of salted caramel chips ice-cream is beckoning at me from the kitchen, so for now I surrender. I promise I'll be good tomorrow. Meanwhile, be very very kind to yourself! |
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Post by howpredictable on Sept 25, 2017 2:25:12 GMT
When I used to struggle, I did a lot of reading about Attachment Injuries to try to make sense of things and reinforce the idea that DA is an unchangeable trait. Reading repeatedly about how well-entrenched the issues are, and how futile the situation was, finally helped it all sink in for me.
I also liked watching the YouTube videos of Alan Robarge, who specializes in this area and has a lot of great resources. This video, which has a lighter tone, got a particularly high number of replays with me:
youtu.be/iff1IDKhXSA
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 12:42:42 GMT
Thank you howpredictable, for the recommendation. I like the simple message "HE IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE." I might record this phrase and make it my wake-up chime on my iPhone every morning, just to drill it in. I also enjoy some of his other videos, such as "How not to be attracted to emotionally unavailable": www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzTg6m3XbrMMostly to train ourselves to be intolerant of unavailability. This one is helpful too... get rid of the nostalgia already!: www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuUg6NuBWtoMy strategy for today consists of putting a big white plate on the table at a particularly ravenously famished meal hour, plastering a smug mug of ex DA on a box of breadcrumbs I bought earlier and shaking a few crumbs on the big white plate, staring at the breadcrumbs till the growling of the stomach is burned into memory for perpetuity. Afterwards, place a full, warm, aromatic delicious loaf of multi-cereal and nut bread next to the plate of crumbs to compare and contrast before happily tearing into the luscious, scrumptious loaf, satiating hunger with true nourishment.  |
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Post by howpredictable on Sept 25, 2017 14:32:22 GMT
Thank you howpredictable, for the recommendation. I like the simple message "HE IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE." I like the line in the video, referring to our propensity to want to be an armchair therapist to help the DA change, where he says, "He knows where the library is. He knows where Barnes and Noble is.... He knows how to do a Google search." i.e. that if DA wanted to be in therapy and read books about his own issues, he'd be doing it himself. Great point. LOL
And for you, curious, I very much like your plan for the day. Bon appetit! :-)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 21:45:59 GMT
I hear you ocarina! But I'm hardly in the clear, strategies or no strategies. :/ Try as I might, I Talk the Talk, or rather Post the Post, Youtube the Youtube but rarely Walk the Walk. Feel like one of those sprightly wellness guru who does pure yoga, chomps on celery stick, dreaming of her very own TED Talk during the day before succumbing to late night movies, cup cake frosting and online spying on exes misery at night. Hack, I'm going to lapse, fantasize about making up with DA, and forgive myself for being the warts-and-all human that I am. To lapse is Human, to forgive self ... Divine! Strategize all over again if that's what it takes. We just have to keep going, keep crossing, until they too, are as dismissed and avoided as we are. That tub of salted caramel chips ice-cream is beckoning at me from the kitchen, so for now I surrender. I promise I'll be good tomorrow. Meanwhile, be very very kind to yourself! Curious - it sounds as though you're feeling you should be something other than hurt, confused, desperate or whatever - in reality what's happened to you and to a lot of the other sane posters on here is madness inducing.... It's fine and natural that you're not in the clear - there's no magic eraser that is going to suddenly make things ok and sometimes by trying to feel better , it actually makes things worse and the feelings linger for longer. Holding on to hope seems to be a kind of avoidance of confronting what we rationally know is over - and facing the very real pain. The best cure for me involved actually sitting down and admitting to myself that there was no hope, no happy ever after and then feeling really really shockingly hurt for a while. Love your yoga guru description - always suspected there was something too good to be true about those people.... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 21:48:57 GMT
Thank you howpredictable, for the recommendation. I like the simple message "HE IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE." I like the line in the video, referring to our propensity to want to be an armchair therapist to help the DA change, where he says, "He knows where the library is. He knows where Barnes and Noble is.... He knows how to do a Google search." i.e. that if DA wanted to be in therapy and read books about his own issues, he'd be doing it himself. Great point. LOL
And for you, curious, I very much like your plan for the day. Bon appetit! :-)
Great reminder - whenever I begin to get the feeling that I know better than someone else I realise it's a warning.... You're absolutely right - the only way the people will heal is if they find the energy and motivation to do the hard graft themselves - plenty of us here have done just that, by being self motivated, |
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Post by pooched on Sept 26, 2017 12:11:36 GMT
Thanks so much for starting this thread... I'm also having a lot of trouble recovering from the breakup with my DA ex almost three months ago -- we were together for 4.5 years, with push-pull cycles. It's doubly hard for me as we have the same friends, the same interests and worse of all, he lives in the same condo complex as I do (financially, I cannot sell my place and move). I've seen him a few times, we were cordial... and it always seems like it's three steps forward, two steps back in my recovery.
I've started to write notes to myself when I feel down... reinforcing and reliving the negative feelings of the hurt that I have felt while in the relationship, in the hopes that I don't cave when I see him. I've just recently started having more good days than bad (trying to get my mojo back) and that's a good sign.
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Post by howpredictable on Sept 26, 2017 13:18:58 GMT
I've started to write notes to myself when I feel down... reinforcing and reliving the negative feelings of the hurt that I have felt while in the relationship This has reminded me to share a tip that really worked for me. I sat down with small slips of paper, and I wrote all kinds of thoughts and feelings around the relationship. I ended up with a good-sized pile of slips that fall into a few categories. 1) Avoidance theme: e.g. "DA has had these issues all his life. He is not going to change." 2) Breakup theme: "This relationship needed to end. Be glad you are out of it now, rather than 5 years from now." 3) Ego-soothing theme: "This was not a rejection of you. This was a dysfunctional relationship that ran its necessary course." 4) Jealousy theme: "DA is NOT going to go on to be a better guy, in a better relationship with someone new. He is emotionally unavailable and is simply not capable." You get the drift. With all these slips, I put them in a little zippered pouch, and when I'm feeling unsettled, I sit down and start pulling them out and re-reading them. Sometimes, I organize them in piles according to what resonates with me most at that moment, which tells me about what particular aspect of the break-up I was struggling with at that time. Then, if needed, I can go off and do some reading around that issue. I believe that these break-ups are extra-hard, because the "bond" we have with Avoidants is actually strengthened by our own issues and dysfunctional methods of relating. So whenever I struggle with the breakup I try to avoid making myself a "victim" of the DA, and rather use it as an opportunity to work on my own issues. |
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Post by inspiring on Sept 26, 2017 21:44:33 GMT
I believe that these break-ups are extra-hard, because the "bond" we have with Avoidants is actually strengthened by our own issues and dysfunctional methods of relating. So whenever I struggle with the breakup I try to avoid making myself a "victim" of the DA, and rather use it as an opportunity to work on my own issues. We are indeed no victims. In the bigger picture, we're responsible for having attracted this kind of person. Please get me right, I don't say we deserved that. My point is that this kind of relationship can lead us to the very core of our own issues. And this is actually a gift of life. I broke up with my DA-partner five weeks ago. I admit, it is still not over to me but I accept this feeling. I'm still not in a good state but at least I've been better since I understood my own issue. Although my ex-partner took over all responsibility for the failure of our relationship, I knew this can't be the lesson: he has a problem and that's it. No, there must also be a lesson left for me to be learnt. And this lesson is definitely not watching out red flags next time or I'm not good enough. No. No. Since I was in deep despair and grief, I saw a therapist. And suddenly I realized my own issue beyond the relationship trouble. Due to a very early trauma, I have the deeply entrenched feeling of not belonging anywhere or to anyone. I've looked for my place in this world (in terms of geography, work and relationship) for a very long time with the result of ending up in very instable situations. To make a long story short, bringing along something huge like an urge to belong is bound to clash with a DA's fear of closeness. And he mirrored a lot of my own fears. (And at the same time and for the first time, I had the feeling that I finally arrived when I was with him while he was in a non-triggered state. This makes it harder to overcome this loss.) Realizing my own issue doesn't make my ex-partner unimportant, but it puts him into perspective, and I feel really better about working on my own stuff than thinking constantly about helping him. I'm also aware that I would never have done this intense work on my own baggage while being with him. It's all good the way it is. So Curious, I can encourage you in keeping up activities such as yoga, etc.. But speaking from my own experience, I can also recommend to trace down your lesson. And this lesson can be very life-changing in a very positive way. Also, the root for our behaviour is mostly not of cognitive nature or can be solved with solely cognitive capacities. There is a lot going on in our sub-consciousness. So seeking help can be very benificial. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 6:47:08 GMT
I believe that these break-ups are extra-hard, because the "bond" we have with Avoidants is actually strengthened by our own issues and dysfunctional methods of relating. So whenever I struggle with the breakup I try to avoid making myself a "victim" of the DA, and rather use it as an opportunity to work on my own issues. We are indeed no victims. In the bigger picture, we're responsible for having attracted this kind of person. Please get me right, I don't say we deserved that. My point is that this kind of relationship can lead us to the very core of our own issues. And this is actually a gift of life. I broke up with my DA-partner five weeks ago. I admit, it is still not over to me but I accept this feeling. I'm still not in a good state but at least I've been better since I understood my own issue. Although my ex-partner took over all responsibility for the failure of our relationship, I knew this can't be the lesson: he has a problem and that's it. No, there must also be a lesson left for me to be learnt. And this lesson is definitely not watching out red flags next time or I'm not good enough. No. No. Since I was in deep despair and grief, I saw a therapist. And suddenly I realized my own issue beyond the relationship trouble. Due to a very early trauma, I have the deeply entrenched feeling of not belonging anywhere or to anyone. I've looked for my place in this world (in terms of geography, work and relationship) for a very long time with the result of ending up in very instable situations. To make a long story short, bringing along something huge like an urge to belong is bound to clash with a DA's fear of closeness. And he mirrored a lot of my own fears. (And at the same time and for the first time, I had the feeling that I finally arrived when I was with him while he was in a non-triggered state. This makes it harder to overcome this loss.) Realizing my own issue doesn't make my ex-partner unimportant, but it puts him into perspective, and I feel really better about working on my own stuff than thinking constantly about helping him. I'm also aware that I would never have done this intense work on my own baggage while being with him. It's all good the way it is. So Curious, I can encourage you in keeping up activities such as yoga, etc.. But speaking from my own experience, I can also recommend to trace down your lesson. And this lesson can be very life-changing in a very positive way. Also, the root for our behaviour is mostly not of cognitive nature or can be solved with solely cognitive capacities. There is a lot going on in our sub-consciousness. So seeking help can be very benificial. This is so true - when I looked at how long I CHOSE to stay in a relationship that was hurting me, I realised that this was my place to look at and like Inspiring, through therapy and some really hard painful times, I have begun to uncover patterns of childhood neglect, loneliness, being completely out of touch with emotions, that over the years I had totally hidden beneath a screen of appearing to be just fine. I genuinely believe that until these things have been approached and conciously dealt with, I would never have been able to have the kind of relationship I seemed to want and therefore despite all the pain (and infact because of it) I am no way a victim here, I have as much to learn from the experience as DA and blaming him isn't going to help me. This kind of journey really hurts, which is why so many people would rather not go there and repeat the same patterns (this includes the DA). Perhaps, despite all he pain, we are really the lucky ones for having dipped out toes into the potential of healing. |
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Post by inspiring on Sept 27, 2017 9:59:48 GMT
Ocarina, I'm very happy to read that you share the kind of same experience. Yes, blaming the DA is indeed not very helpful. It's good to understand their feelings, why they act the way they do (so we don't need to take it personally) but at the same time, it is very important to understand ourselves. I anyway don't like the concept of guilt. I rather call it responsibility, and since there are always two people in a dyad, two have their share in responsibility. And it gives us power instead of being stuck in a victim role. About my issue I'm working on, attachment trauma, I don't want to withhold literature from you which really opened my eyes: www.greenballoonbooks.co.uk/franz-ruppert/trauma-fear-and-loveRuppert does not just explain how attachment traumata can come into existence, he also offers a very productive method to resolve it. I don't claim that we all have an attachment trauma. I just want to share this, and then you can choose whether this resonates inside of you or not. About the struggle of letting go or staying strong, I can only say (as I said before) that I still hold sparks of hope for our relationship. This may be justified/wise/sensible or not. I just accept this feeling. I don't fight it. I don't fuel it either by having the urge to do something to re-establish the relationship. I'm just very sure that my ex-partner also values this deep love, connection and compatibility we had/have. FULLSTOP! Anything else is his choice and out of my reach. But I know that I am a person who is worthwhile to be pursued, no matter he will do so or not. I just deeply trust that the best will happen for all people who are involved in this....whatever that means. Time knows the story line. I am just very grateful to life that I met him. I'm also grateful to him for showing me my issue. |
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Post by howpredictable on Sept 27, 2017 12:49:24 GMT
I am just very grateful to life that I met him. I'm also grateful to him for showing me my issue. Exactly! I echo both of you and am honestly grateful to have had this relationship with the DA (and a few other dysfunctional pairings before that).
I learned a few things about myself: not only am I what's colloquially called "emotionally available", but I have Attachment trauma also and have had many "aha!" moments that are propelling me along what I hope is a healing journey. (And I know I have mentioned him before, but the YouTube videos and work of Alan Robarge are great, easy-access sources).
Whenever I am tempted to vilify my Exes, I imagine a big book of Dysfunctional Relating. They are described perfectly in one chapter.... my own issues are simply found in a different one. I was (am?) simply not relationship-ready and nobody could have "cured" me and extracted a good relationship out of me, not even the best partner.
In this last pairing I was the pursuer, he was the distancer.... but I know that with my own emotional availability and Avoidance I have been a Runner from relationships all my life, from people who were probably healthy. I will never know. To gain compassion, I just have to "flip the script" and see myself as the dysfunctional one, because I am, just in a different way from my Ex.
So with the knowledge that I was irresistably drawn to DA due to my own entrenched childhood issues, I can hardly blame him for his actions and patterns. We were both in the same leaky boat, and found each other for exactly that reason.
Good luck to all on their journey. As the title of the thread says, "Stay Strong".
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