Thread to stay strong

Wow...thank you all, howpredictable, inspiring, ocarina, meimei, for sharing so many wonderful stories, tips, advice, resources.

Thanks so much meimei for the links, I found the full audio book "Wired for Love" by Sam Tatkin:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gzYT766yCI

Me too, I had attachment trauma before, and I was married for many years to a Narcissist. I had an incredibly high tolerance for toxic treatment with my exhusband, until I was completely exhausted.

Due to this prior horrible marriage, I was able to quickly identify avoidant behavior in ex DA, and broke it off within a few months (couldn't get to know him as well due to long distance and fewer occasions to date), so I guess there's a silver lining of sorts...

I managed to recover from the emotional trauma in my marriage by ultimately recognizing what it was, forgiving and quite forgetting.

I am generally a laughing person, and I found a lot of relief in humor, even dark humor. Try it, laughing brightens you up immediately, and DA's dodging ways will look quite ridiculous.

You are right, we all have to go through two phases - the dismissing, discarding of feelings for the ex, even though we seem to be able to sense their true need for attachment despite their distancing, and also our own internal journey to make ourselves stronger, wiser and happier in the aftermath.

I assure you that it will come sooner than later - I went through that after my marriage and today, it's incomprehensible to me how I could have cried so much over ex husband, who isn't at all attractive by all standards, and who suffers from a disorder.

Perhaps soon enough I'd feel the same about ex DA, though he has many good qualities that I admire, he is much more disordered than I am in finding and keeping a relationship. What will he become when he retires from the career that is his crutch, his pride, his substitute for emotional support? Being a secure, I'm already further along in pursuing my goals. I know that a wonderful man is waiting for me to get through all the Mr Wrongs to find him, and with ex DA gone, I'm closer!

We have from now until the end of our lives to find him, that's quite a lot of years, so take heart.

Meanwhile, with more time to ourselves, we can learn to love ourselves more, to raise our intolerance for avoidant/disrespectful/inconsiderate behavior from others (not just SOs), pursue our passion, and have fun dating many different types of men to hone our selection skills and heighten our radar for the wrong sorts.

Haha, I'm no yoga guru, but I hope to practice mindfulness to increase control over my anxiety and looping thoughts. Like you, I will forgive myself each time I waste more precious hours wallowing instead of doing something that makes me feel great, such as coming here to commiserate and feeling encouraged by so many strong, wise, resilient Secures and Awares-on-their-way to more Secure Attachment.

We're heading towards the light and unfortunately, must leave behind those whom we care deeply about but are unable to reach. They might one day go on their own journey, but it's one they have to undertake of their own free will, and not "helped" by us to fulfil our needs.

I'm glad I gave him a kind farewell message, we both deserved a good closure, accepting things as they are. I was so happy when I saw Robarge's video about this, I forgot its title, but it said we could make parting beautiful, and then go our separate ways in peace.

Believe me, I still ache for him, because there were more good moments than bad, and I was falling for him, but the shock of being refused and avoided after a fantastic date would only increase in intensity as we get closer and deeper. Such is the irony of being in such a relationship - the deeper you're in, the more likely it will break due to the rising intolerable closeness to DA.

So it's doomed from the start anyways, and better to end it now than later.

Fortunately, we will all emerge stronger, more whole, more complete, having done the work on ourselves. Courage!

DearLover, I'm so sorry you got involved with a person with NPD, that's another category of hell in addition to dealing with an avoidant. Good for you for doing the closure on your side, you don't need anymore from him, so let him ghost. I'm not sure though, that he regards you so lowly, he might be missing what you both shared, but the nature of his disorder makes him shut that down.

I like the "tough love" message in the video, but I didn't like the viewers' comments about how victims are responsible for their misery for not leaving. Many stayed for pragmatic, realistic reasons, children, finances, etc.

I don't know if I'm typical but I stayed because I believed that people can change for the better, I wanted to help my ex husband because I knew he had a horrible upbringing and I felt sympathy for him. I stayed because I didn't know about disorders until the gaslighting, projecting, splitting, etc finally broke me and alerted me to do my own search. None of those around me knew about disorders either, and everyone (most of my friends happen to be Christians) couldn't understand even when I explained my confusion in plain language as the abuse was so futile and purposeless, and they counseled me to forgive, forget, check my own words and deeds, change myself to not provoke ex husband, etc. They see an intelligent, confident, optimistic person and they assumed I must have contributed to the fighting and that "no one is perfect","it takes two to tango", etc.

There's a lot of counter-intuitive relationship advice out there - if I hadn't known about disorders, I might have thought and advised the same, especially when we cling to the equation of the emotional investment and sunk costs. We just didn't know about lost causes that are so well hidden behind seemingly functioning healthy attractive partners, and kept lingering like a casino newbie at the shiny, bling-bling slot machine dispensing pennies, waiting for the jackpot.

We are all normal unawares - it's only after realizing that ex is a likely Narcissist that everything fell into place and the decision to leave was taken. I was truly in the fog. I've since recognized a former friend, an ex colleague, an ex boss, as Narcissists, but I had no idea before reading up and understanding disorders. My former friend, a handsome high achieving (since fallen) divorced man was so successful at his game that he managed to con a beautiful, well-off, extremely picky European aristocrat to marry him and have a child with him. He described what he did to get his prize (he truly believed that he loved her...but of course tensions started soon after marriage... ), and it was no holds barred courting - lavish vacations, gifts, charm poured like bubbly champagne, etc. When they are in the chase, we truly have no idea about ulterior motives.

Only fellow travelers who woke up could understand our journey - so don't beat up yourself over your "mistake", you were only being generous, empathetic, giving, forgiving, optimistic, hopeful, etc, all good traits when you finally find the right man.

I won't be changing these aspects of myself. I'm becoming wiser, a bit more paranoid about red flags, but otherwise, I want to save the best for Mr Right one day.

So don't beat yourself up - you were only being a lovely angel for the lucky guy,...unfortunately he's a lost cause in disguise. Drop him, move on to the next one, and so forth, until the right guy reciprocates the love back to you.

I came across this parable called "The Broken Popcorn Machine"

www.loveadvice.com/articles/POPCORN.HTM

It's a simple story, I find it succinct, and it goes right to the point.

From the webpage...

"So often in my private counseling, I've heard the same story from both men and women: "I met this attractive, interesting person, the sex was exciting, our relationship started off great, and I fell in love."

Then they go on. "But I've poured my heart into this relationship for over a year, and he (she) just isn't responding. He (she) insists nothing's wrong, but I know something must be.

....the relationship failed to blossom into mutual love and eventual commitment for a different reason: the person you've fallen for looks normal but turns out to be commitment-phobic, has fear of intimacy, or is simply a "witholder."

Invariably, my hopelessly in-love client feels there must be something they're doing wrong, or something more they should do to solve the problem. I feel sad for them, for the unfairness of the situation, but all I can do is tell them the following little story, about a mother and her son and a popcorn machine at a carnival.

The son gets a coin from his mother for popcorn but comes back empty-handed, so his mother walks over to the machine with him to help. She is careful to put the right coin in the right slot, and she even shakes the machine, but no popcorn comes out. She turns away but he pulls her back, his heart set on popcorn. "The popcorn is right there," he cries, "I can see it, and we put the money in, so why can't you do something to get it?"

His mother gently explains why she can't help. "I'm afraid there's nothing you can do and nothing I can do; the machine is broken and the only one who can fix it is a popcorn machine repairman."

Accepting the message of this parable is difficult, so I usually continue. "Your partner is a broken popcorn machine. You've put your coins in and deserve to get love out. You may even see love in him (her), but there's nothing either of us can do to get it out. The repair he (she) needs is years of therapy. This is a popcorn machine you can't fix, and you can't wait for it to get fixed. Put the loss behind you and get on with your life."

In addition to commitment phobia, withholding, and fear of intimacy, there are some other problems you may encounter in relationships which prove sadly resistant to love and the best of intentions. You probably can't:

Cure an alcoholic
Cure a drug addict
Make a Homosexual straight
Get a heavy person to lose weight
Get a smoker to quit smoking
Get a slob to be neat
Rescue a crazy person
Expect fidelity when it was never there before
Keep a crook on the straight and narrow
Expect someone to always stay the same
Expect someone to be what you expect

If you've done all you can in a relationship and it's still not working, the Broken Popcorn Machine story may help you come to peace with letting it go."

"

Hey peeps,

Sorry to interrupt your flow. I used to be part of it but for a couple of days, I've suffered a setback, and I need an intervention. Although I don't know in which direction.

Despite my words above (we are not victims, blaming the DA doesn't make sense), I've been feeling really angry for the last days. I don't particular feel like a victim but I'm full of anger out of a sudden. Although my head is aware of all the described DA behaviours and their reasons for it, my heart rebells. I am so angry at my expartner's silent treatments at the end. And that it took to end the relationship in order to get a reaction from him, namely that he's not able to have a relationship now, that he is sorry, and that he loves me. That was the first time that he expressed his love towards me in these concrete words. The 'I love you' was then all over the place. He didn't just write it just once. I mean, it is of course a relief having had my feeling confirmed that there was deep love also from his side. But honestly, what shall I do with this? I believe him that he loves or loved me. But why did he write that so often? Why the emphasis on that instead of the incapability of being in a relationship now because of his fear of closeness? It doesn't make it any easier to free my mind and my heart. In a way, it feels like a farce....treating me like shit, HUGE declaration of love in the moment I ended the relationship, and then a complete shut-down again....And in another way, it feels like as if he wanted to keep a door open. I don't know.

As said, my mind is already aware that these ambivalent feelings of love and hurt are the pivotal point of the dilemma...it's just at the moment, I have a complete rebound. Is there any DA on the board who has an explanation for that? And at all who are in post-break period: Have you also had phases of anger? How did you handle them?

joanneg, so glad it helped, I'm digging into other sites to find resources too. I'm not over yet...I underestimated how much I still feel for him.

Inspiring, I'm so sorry to hear about this yo-yo intermittent reinforcing behavior, it gives us DA partner troubled hopes. I can understand your dillemma...in my weaker moments, i.e. rather often, I secretly wish that DA I broke up with would ask to reconcile again even though I know it will end up like his past 2 marriages.

So his behavior is making it very difficult for you to move on.

That's so selfish, and in the end that's the behavior of a broken popcorn machine, ugh, I wish he will either commit to therapy and working on it together with you or let you move on in peace.

Thank you peeps, for your prolific response.

Howpredictable, what a bliss that you share your perspective(s) with us. Your DA-streak is indeed interesting. I guess there a probably gradients among DA people (must be). My ex-partner actually didn't act as if he wanted to end the relationship when I confronted him in person. Tears came to his eyes everytime I slightly mentioned a possible ending. He admitted that he thought he wouldn't be able to have a relationship but he didn't come to terms. He neither intended to make me break up with him by his actions (that's what he said). But in the end, I did it - via a text message and a letter because his shut-down made it impossilbe to have another meeting. However, once I wrote my decision whithout having confessed my love, he came up with his huge confession. Have you ever felt love or regrets after a break-up?
Your hint that I'm re-feeling emotions from my childhood resonates most with me. Because I also have ambivalent feelings towards my mother. And as mentioned in other threads, I just realized an early trauma of mine.

Curious, thank you so much for your words. Yup, sometimes I manage to live with this ambivalence and sometimes I don't. Yesterday, I didn't. And I do understand your dreams of reconciliation. Same here.....mostly fueled by his confession of love.

Ocarina, oh yes, there are definitely categories of anger, and it is probably a necessary phase to get over it (Howpredictable, I hope your guess about the turning point will come true). One sentence really stroke me: "he wanted me, but on his own terms and at the expense of my happiness." Yes, it makes it clear....it is really nice to be wanted but for what price? Thanks for that. But please don't beat yourself up for what you did. It's good to realize it but then really put emphasis on your statement: "I'm sure we all did what we thought seemed the right thing at the time and need to forgive ourselves for that too."

So again, many thanks. And I can tell, I wasn't angry anymore (for today)....but now I'm really sad again....I feel lost, etc.. but I know these feelings do not solely stem from the break-up (although I really have this stupid feeling that it would only need to have him back....and I would be better....my mind knows that this bullshit...but my feeling is like this....and this also the aftermath of a former attachment trauma).

However, THANK YOU for being here, and I wish us again a gentle transition.

Hello, keeping doors open is their classic move. They always want an option of having you when they see fit. I think your anger is perfectly normal and expressed in a healthy way it is very helpful for you moving on. It's like the inner you standing up for yourself.
I am in the same spot as you rt now. Finally after more than a yr of being patient and understanding about why he treats me like shit, I'm just pissed. I'm completely and utterly done with it. The anger is helping me move on. I hope it does that w you too.
A tool that had helped me is listening to Louise hay and different affirmations as well as journaling and writing a letter telling him exactly how I feel and rereading it when I need to remember why I will never repeat that cycle again.