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Post by iz42 on Oct 15, 2020 4:42:27 GMT
Just here to post a quick update. I’ve been making some progress with boundaries, communicating my needs, and taking better care of myself. I’m taking a break from dating and working through some of the most challenging stuff in my last relationship. After going through the usual push/pull dynamic my FA ex attempted to downgrade our relationship status. I allowed myself to get caught up in it for a while when I could have set firmer boundaries. We were “just friends” but he wanted all the perks of a relationship—emotional intimacy and sex. I guess this was about lowering the stakes and creating distance.
The same ex also spent a lot of time talking about boredom around sex and he suggested that when the sexual spark is gone in a relationship he is basically done (this usually happens after 1-4 years for him). This created a lot of anxiety for me. It was compounded by situations where he would talk about other women. I see now that this is pretty immature. At the time I thought it meant I had to work harder to keep his attention. I aspire to have a connection with a strong enough foundation to make it past the sparks of the honeymoon.
The other thing I’m thinking about is my need for validation. My ex always got very frustrated with me when I asked him to acknowledge or validate my feelings. I can’t say he was abusive but he would lash out in these situations. I’m grappling with questions around emotional regulation and validation. This is the only relationship I’ve been in where my need for validation was an issue and I suspect that it was partially due to his low empathy. He would shut me down and say I was overly needy. It made me feel terrible about myself. At the same time I want to work on validating my *own* feelings. I just struggle to understand what amount of validation it’s normal to ask for from a partner. I would hope that in some cases it’s okay to ask for my feelings to be validated, though maybe (hopefully) with a different partner I wouldn’t be in a situation where my emotional needs were being regularly dismissed.
Edited to add: one last thing that has always been hard is that my ex was never hurt by our breakups. I would be in agony and he would be unconcerned or on to the next person. He even told me this. For some reason this still feels so unfair to me. I know it’s probably one of the most typical aspects of the anxious/avoidant dynamic but it felt so deeply personal. It’s still hard to believe he cared about me because he was never sad when things ended.
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Post by maryisback on Oct 15, 2020 12:54:30 GMT
I am not sure why you are concerned with how he deals with the break up. It's not about "fairness" . Everyone copes in a different way. He copes by moving on to the next person. Also, I don't think you know how he really feels. Just because he told you he is not hurt, doesn't make it true. You broke up...move on.
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Post by annieb on Oct 15, 2020 14:27:40 GMT
I wish I could really be helpful, but when I read this kind it stuff my heart breaks for you. I guess in the end we all arrive at a point, where we take responsibility for our part. Good or bad. It doesn’t define, who we are if we admit our mistakes. It makes us better, actually. It does define us, I guess:)
I like that you are aware of the validation issue. That’s pretty much key here. I believe that if you focus on self validation, you will be well on your way to healing. Figure out on your own or in therapy why you don’t want to self validate (why you hand that responsibility over to another person), be it your past attachment figure/ caregiver or a newer relationship trauma, but there is something there in your past that’s causing this compulsion. I would “deep dive” and found that issue.
The focus as an AP is always on the avoidant because if we “figured them out” we would have our answers. It’s on a way believe it or not a controlling behavior albeit it may feel helpless or out of control. That’s the conundrum of a controlling behavior.
If you have a therapist it’s best to bring this up ASAP with them. If you don’t have a therapist just from my past experiences, when I was still fumbling on my own, the best thing I could do was raising my own self esteem. Google an article “42 ways of improving yourself“, and start doing all the things on that list one by one and you will see your self esteem gradually rising.
I wish you best of luck and you are in good hands with the members here.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 15, 2020 16:58:34 GMT
Just a quick update here. I’ve been making some progress with boundaries, communicating my needs, and taking better care of myself. I’m taking a break from dating and working through some of the most challenging stuff in my last relationship. After going through the usual push/pull dynamic my FA ex attempted to downgrade our relationship status. I allowed myself to get caught up in it for a while when I could have set firmer boundaries. We were “just friends” but he wanted all the perks of a relationship—emotional intimacy and sex. I guess this was about lowering the stakes and creating distance. The same ex also spent a lot of time talking about boredom around sex and he suggested that when the sexual spark is gone in a relationship he is basically done (this usually happens after 1-4 years for him). This created a lot of anxiety for me. It was compounded by situations where he would talk about other women. I see now that this is pretty immature. At the time I thought it meant I had to work harder to keep his attention. I aspire to have a connection with a strong enough foundation to make it past the sparks of the honeymoon. The other thing I’m thinking about is my need for validation. My ex always got very frustrated with me when I asked him to acknowledge or validate my feelings. I can’t say he was abusive but he would lash out in these situations. I’m grappling with questions around emotional regulation and validation. This is the only relationship I’ve been in where my need for validation was an issue and I suspect that it was partially due to his low empathy. He would shut me down and say I was overly needy. It made me feel terrible about myself. At the same time I want to work on validating my *own* feelings. I just struggle to understand what amount of validation it’s normal to ask for from a partner. I would hope that in some cases it’s okay to ask for my feelings to be validated, though maybe (hopefully) with a different partner I wouldn’t be in a situation where my emotional needs were being regularly dismissed. Edited to add: one last thing that has always been hard is that my ex was never hurt by our breakups. I would be in agony and he would be unconcerned or on to the next person. He even told me this. For some reason this still feels so unfair to me. I know it’s probably one of the most typical aspects of the anxious/avoidant dynamic but it felt so deeply personal. It’s still hard to believe he cared about me because he was never sad when things ended. Hi iz42....I am working but will reply later. I want you to know that what you are going through is a very typical behavior for someone with an AP attachment. I too have experienced what you are stating above and will share what has worked for me. The very first thing is to delete him from having any access to you or you to him. I know this won’t feel right as I went through that as well...but trust me, you will be loving yourself and honoring who you are if you do. This is truly the first step. |
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Post by iz42 on Oct 15, 2020 17:08:09 GMT
I should clarify that I’m in therapy now and not in contact with my ex. I decided some months ago we couldn’t be friends. These are just the last remnants of things that have been difficult for me in processing our relationship and figuring out that I want in the future. I’ve found this to be a useful place to try to articulate my thoughts when I’m processing something. This was my first long term relationship with an avoidant and it really impacted me. All my other relationships have been with secure or other anxiously leaning people. I never felt the need for validation in any of those other relationships. So I’m just trying to understand what happened in this particular situation and how the dynamic developed. I understand that it’s more useful to look at my own behavior than his and I am doing that in therapy.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 15, 2020 17:27:28 GMT
I should clarify that I’m in therapy now and not in contact with my ex. I decided some months ago we couldn’t be friends. These are just the last remnants of things that have been difficult for me in processing our relationship and figuring out that I want in the future. I’ve found this to be a useful place to try to articulate my thoughts when I’m processing something. This was my first long term relationship with an avoidant and it really impacted me. All my other relationships have been with secure or other anxiously leaning people. I never felt the need for validation in any of those other relationships. So I’m just trying to understand what happened in this particular situation and how the dynamic developed. I understand that it’s more useful to look at my own behavior than his and I am doing that in therapy. Yes...let’s touch base later. This has been a pattern for me so I am extremely familiar with the feelings you are expressing. It all goes back to AP/DA dynamics. |
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Post by iz42 on Oct 15, 2020 18:04:32 GMT
I am not sure why you are concerned with how he deals with the break up. It's not about "fairness" . Everyone copes in a different way. He copes by moving on to the next person. Also, I don't think you know how he really feels. Just because he told you he is not hurt, doesn't make it true. You broke up...move on. I think the fairness issue is about rejection, and I need to work on that in therapy. This was a situation where we were on and off for several years so the breakups were a recurring thing and I think it triggered memories of my father emotionally distancing himself from me, which felt like rejection. |
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Post by iz42 on Oct 15, 2020 18:17:26 GMT
I do think I need to learn to validate my own feelings better. But perhaps another lesson is that in the future I won't put up with a situation with a partner who makes me feel like my basic emotions aren't valid. When I was struggling and asked him for support or empathy he would shut me down, and this created a dynamic where I felt like I had to keep working harder and harder to get his validation. He would become so frustrated with me that it make me feel guilty for asking for his support in the first place. I knew this was unhealthy at the time, but I felt like it was my own fault. Now I believe that I never should have put up with the dynamic from the beginning. He told me that he struggled with empathy fairly early on and I should have taken that as a huge red flag. I thought it meant something for him to be able to admit that, but it didn't mean he was willing to try to work on it (or had any desire to).
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Post by maryisback on Oct 15, 2020 18:40:04 GMT
I do think I need to learn to validate my own feelings better. But perhaps another lesson is that in the future I won't put up with a situation with a partner who makes me feel like my basic emotions aren't valid. When I was struggling and asked him for support or empathy he would shut me down, and this created a dynamic where I felt like I had to keep working harder and harder to get his validation. He would become so frustrated with me that it make me feel guilty for asking for his support in the first place. I knew this was unhealthy at the time, but I felt like it was my own fault. Now I believe that I never should have put up with the dynamic from the beginning. He told me that he struggled with empathy fairly early on and I should have taken that as a huge red flag. I thought it meant something for him to be able to admit that, but it didn't mean he was willing to try to work on it (or had any desire to). I do not understand the need to be validated by others. Your own feelings are valid if you have them. Looking outside yourself for validation is a never ending circle. I have been in relationships with people that continuously want to be validated and it's exhausting and frustrating. No one can make you feel "invalid" unless you let them. |
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Post by iz42 on Oct 15, 2020 19:33:43 GMT
I do think I need to learn to validate my own feelings better. But perhaps another lesson is that in the future I won't put up with a situation with a partner who makes me feel like my basic emotions aren't valid. When I was struggling and asked him for support or empathy he would shut me down, and this created a dynamic where I felt like I had to keep working harder and harder to get his validation. He would become so frustrated with me that it make me feel guilty for asking for his support in the first place. I knew this was unhealthy at the time, but I felt like it was my own fault. Now I believe that I never should have put up with the dynamic from the beginning. He told me that he struggled with empathy fairly early on and I should have taken that as a huge red flag. I thought it meant something for him to be able to admit that, but it didn't mean he was willing to try to work on it (or had any desire to). I do not understand the need to be validated by others. Your own feelings are valid if you have them. Looking outside yourself for validation is a never ending circle. I have been in relationships with people that continuously want to be validated and it's exhausting and frustrating. No one can make you feel "invalid" unless you let them. Yes, I agree. I now believe that it's about standing up for myself instead of trying to convince someone to empathize with me when they obviously can't do that. To give an example, at one point I reached a big professional accomplishment and my partner did not congratulate me. I expressed to him that I was hurt and that I would appreciate acknowledgment for this accomplishment I had worked toward for many years. He was defensive about it. I wanted him to understand how it felt not to have him congratulate me. Instead it became a fight about me being too sensitive. I never should have put up with this. In these kinds of situations I thought that if I just tried hard enough I could get him to understand why I was hurt. He would become cold and increasingly distanced. I should have just walked away. |
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Post by maryisback on Oct 15, 2020 19:56:23 GMT
I do not understand the need to be validated by others. Your own feelings are valid if you have them. Looking outside yourself for validation is a never ending circle. I have been in relationships with people that continuously want to be validated and it's exhausting and frustrating. No one can make you feel "invalid" unless you let them. Yes, I agree. I now believe that it's about standing up for myself instead of trying to convince someone to empathize with me when they obviously can't do that. To give an example, at one point I reached a big professional accomplishment and my partner did not congratulate me. I expressed to him that I was hurt and that I would appreciate acknowledgment for this accomplishment I had worked toward for many years. He was defensive about it. I wanted him to understand how it felt not to have him congratulate me. Instead it became a fight about me being too sensitive. I never should have put up with this. In these kinds of situations I thought that if I just tried hard enough I could get him to understand why I was hurt. He would become cold and increasingly distanced. I should have just walked away. Ah, ok, I see validation of feelings different from an acknowledgement. He was not supportive to you in that moment and partners should be supportive, otherwise what's the point. Personally, I see this as a separate issue from empathy. Sometimes, these types of interactions stem from jealousy (of your accomplishment) than from lack of empathy. |
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Post by iz42 on Oct 15, 2020 20:36:06 GMT
Yes, I agree. I now believe that it's about standing up for myself instead of trying to convince someone to empathize with me when they obviously can't do that. To give an example, at one point I reached a big professional accomplishment and my partner did not congratulate me. I expressed to him that I was hurt and that I would appreciate acknowledgment for this accomplishment I had worked toward for many years. He was defensive about it. I wanted him to understand how it felt not to have him congratulate me. Instead it became a fight about me being too sensitive. I never should have put up with this. In these kinds of situations I thought that if I just tried hard enough I could get him to understand why I was hurt. He would become cold and increasingly distanced. I should have just walked away. Ah, ok, I see validation of feelings different from an acknowledgement. He was not supportive to you in that moment and partners should be supportive, otherwise what's the point. Personally, I see this as a separate issue from empathy. Sometimes, these types of interactions stem from jealousy (of your accomplishment) than from lack of empathy. That's interesting. The same scenario played out countless times so I'm not sure it was about jealousy. When there was any issue where I felt hurt and wanted an apology or an acknowledgment of my perspective (perhaps that is different from validation - I don't know), we had the same dead-end conversation where he got defensive and focused on my reaction rather than his behavior. Once in a blue moon he would apologize but it was very rare. I clearly let myself get caught in this trap and I would often get so upset I would apologize for bringing up the issue in the first place. I will NEVER do that again. I see how that just perpetuated the cycle. Occasionally months or years later he would admit that he was wrong or give some sort of apology but it never felt like he really understood how I was feeling. |
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 15, 2020 21:06:47 GMT
I do think I need to learn to validate my own feelings better. But perhaps another lesson is that in the future I won't put up with a situation with a partner who makes me feel like my basic emotions aren't valid. When I was struggling and asked him for support or empathy he would shut me down, and this created a dynamic where I felt like I had to keep working harder and harder to get his validation. He would become so frustrated with me that it make me feel guilty for asking for his support in the first place. I knew this was unhealthy at the time, but I felt like it was my own fault. Now I believe that I never should have put up with the dynamic from the beginning. He told me that he struggled with empathy fairly early on and I should have taken that as a huge red flag. I thought it meant something for him to be able to admit that, but it didn't mean he was willing to try to work on it (or had any desire to). Just something to consider. What is important... AP=needs, DA=boundaries, FA=vacillates between the two. Although Mary is correct that externalizing validation is not a great choice.....for APs, this really isn’t a choice...it was a matter of survival. If I don’t know if mom or dad will be happy with me or not...then I will try to anticipate things while trying to control how they act towards me by altering my behavior....and at the same time, trying to get the love I need through looking for validation that they still love me, am I enough etc. The issue is..as Mary pointed out....this behavior to someone who is DA or FA leaning avoidant will be exhausting which just perpetuates that old pattern and my needs never get met and my partner’s boundaries get triggered and he pulls away. It really does take 2 people who are reacting towards each other out of their attachments to create the dance. I am not saying 1 is right and 1 is wrong...but that both are wrong for each other. |
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Post by iz42 on Oct 15, 2020 21:52:38 GMT
I do think I need to learn to validate my own feelings better. But perhaps another lesson is that in the future I won't put up with a situation with a partner who makes me feel like my basic emotions aren't valid. When I was struggling and asked him for support or empathy he would shut me down, and this created a dynamic where I felt like I had to keep working harder and harder to get his validation. He would become so frustrated with me that it make me feel guilty for asking for his support in the first place. I knew this was unhealthy at the time, but I felt like it was my own fault. Now I believe that I never should have put up with the dynamic from the beginning. He told me that he struggled with empathy fairly early on and I should have taken that as a huge red flag. I thought it meant something for him to be able to admit that, but it didn't mean he was willing to try to work on it (or had any desire to). Just something to consider. What is important... AP=needs, DA=boundaries, FA=vacillates between the two. Although Mary is correct that externalizing validation is not a great choice.....for APs, this really isn’t a choice...it was a matter of survival. If I don’t know if mom or dad will be happy with me or not...then I will try to anticipate things while trying to control how they act towards me by altering my behavior....and at the same time, trying to get the love I need through looking for validation that they still love me, am I enough etc. The issue is..as Mary pointed out....this behavior to someone who is DA or FA leaning avoidant will be exhausting which just perpetuates that old pattern and my needs never get met and my partner’s boundaries get triggered and he pulls away. It really does take 2 people who are reacting towards each other out of their attachments to create the dance. I am not saying 1 is right and 1 is wrong...but that both are wrong for each other. That's a helpful perspective. Thanks tnr9. I'm think I'm partly trying to picture how things would work in a healthy, secure dynamic. Obviously there is self-work that needs to be done outside of a relationship to get to a point where I, as someone with AP tendencies, have self-soothing techniques. I would want to make sure I'm not putting too much pressure on my partner to validate me and that I'm able to communicate my needs in an appropriate way. We all (even secure people) have needs and expectations in relationships, right? I guess I hope that if I were feeling frustrated with something that my partner was doing or wanted to explain why I was having a particular reaction, they would be receptive and try to understand. Then we could resolve the conflict and move on. In my previous relationship we never moved on--it was an endless loop of me trying to explain and him shutting down. I'm not trying to put all the blame on him or saying his behavior was bad, I'm just saying that I would not allow myself to be a situation where I was stuck in a cycle like this. |
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Post by serenity on Oct 15, 2020 22:53:17 GMT
Hugs iz42,
Its good to hear from you, and thanks for sharing your update. I'm unsure if you've been watching Thais Gibson's stuff on youtube, but she makes a good point about Anxiously-attached grief versus Avoidant grief. AP and anxious FA grief is immediate, intense, and usually the the agony of it passes within a month or so. Avoidantly-attached partners usually feel happy and free after a breakup for some time * BUT* within a few months the rejection-pain hits them like it hits everyone else. Some will "use" a new lover to mitigate the grief, but they can use drugs or whatever. They still feel grief, you weren't nothing to them.
I feel everyone has a vulnerable side that can use support and validation at times. Our closest relationships are the ones we should feel free to ask for that support. And we should be free to make bids for connection when we need them, and have those bids responded to. You are not an Island, and Avoidants are only like that because its a defense mechanism due to childhood neglect. This is not something we should emulate, its unhealthy. What we need to be doing is allowing only trustworthy people close to us, who are capable of meeting our needs.
iz42 you were neglected and trained to feel that your needs are unimportant and will be rejected. Give it some time, you will heal. If you have good people in your life you trust, try asking for support and expressing feelings again, and making bids for connection. See how good healthy people respond to you. Let them care. <3
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