DA/AP relationship for 11 years total and I’m losing my mind

That’s a lot to read. I think as long as you hang around and don’t shut the door forever and ever on this guy you will continue to deny a big part of yourself. This is your avoidance. This is you avoiding yourself by the extension of him avoiding you. Once you piece that together he will be forever downgraded to a friend. But I think you’re close. I think for most of the people on these boards who were able to get there it took several years. That is normal, good and healthy.

If you don’t choose yourself now, you will always break your own heart and you’ll use people outside of yourself to execute that for you.

Hi doctora ! I wanted to chime in here with not a different perspective (you've already gotten fantastic advice) but rather from a different life place that may be of use to you. I am currently 1 month out of a breakup with my avoidant ex (I actually don't really think it matters much whether they are FA or DA personally...it's not a question I wrestle with as it really doesn't matter and the end result is the same. I find that ruminating over that sort of thing does more harm that good at least to me personally, and that is something THEY have to determine while THEY are in therapy...it actually has to do with which core wounds shape them most). I want to touch directly on your desire for him to get help and let me share some stuff with you that may really help to open your eyes. All i ask is, while reading this, try to really open your mind (I actually feel you are great about this) because when we are in the throes of pain, our minds do crazy mental gymnastics to justify why OUR situations are different. I did this for a year and a half.


And here is my point regarding him getting help...I was talking to my (attachment specialist) therapist after my breakup and she was saying "Someone who is as disorganized in their attachment as (your ex) is will never be able to have a lasting relationship" and I asked her "Do you see other clients like him? How do they manage to succeed??" and she said....and please take this to heart "I don't see clients like him because they don't come to therapy and simply cannot be consistent to stick with it"....which a LIGHTBULB went off! Of course! If he can't be consistent with me, why would he ever be able to be consistent with therapy? APs are much much more likley to get help and stick with it (I think on my other attachment forum I am on we had maybe 200 APs and 5 avoidants) It's so painful, but your ex will replay these patterns over and over and frankly will do them with his poor future wife as well (if you end up being his poor future wife, he will do them with you). My (now) ex was working really hard. We had phenomenal communication (e.g. "Hey I feel trapped in this relationship." "I totally understand lets talk about it"...make up....talked about needs. etc etc. that sort of stuff) but, the tools that he has honed over his life of how to deal with pain will always trump the relationship. Always. ALWAYS.

SO here is some really practical advice to answer your questions at the beginning of this thread. My current breakup is unlike any I have ever had. In the past, I have always been able to move on almost immediately and become friends the next week and not care (very unhealthy signs I was never really committed to the relationship) and the first time my current ex dumped me (this is the second time...both after having the same conversation about my needs for consistency)it was like a living nightmare. THIS time it's very different because I am in such a more secure place-attachment wise. Now that doesn't mean it hasn't hurt (the first 3 weeks or so were absolute hell) but its been different because the way I have processed the emotions is different so getting back to your original questions I will give you my own advice on how I have dealt with the pain DIFFERENTLY this time around

Question your stories: Instead of saying things like "He used me. He never cared about me. He wants someone better" etc etc etc literally STOP yourself each time you go here and literally write down. WHat is the thought "He never cared for me" Can i know that is 100% true? "No". WHat evidence do I have to the contrary. And write it down. Now this isn't to be used as an activating strategy (ha don't go "Ok he clearly loves me so I need to reach out) noooo...but use it as a way of NOT getting stuck in the pain. Getting stuck by replaying exceptionally painful thoughts is what won't allow you to move through the phases of the breakup. And you want to move through so you aren't stuck for long periods of time

Reprogram painful core wounds: this is a BIG ONE. Use places where you find abnormal amounts of triggering as a golden nugget of knowledge to what you need to work on. For example, my ex is now majorly flirting with someone online (I know this because during the first week of the breakup I checked his twitter in sate of pain and found out). I nearly panicked. Why? Welll...because I have a horrible wound around "I will be replaced". So I focus on THAT thought. Not about him. It's got nothing to do with him it's just my subconscious pain points coming out. And I literally write down all the ways I am irreplaceable. I do this every single day. Over and over until that wound is reprogrammed (21 days is what we're taught in the personal development school). Be very mindful here and target why these things cause you pain. Look past him at what it actually is.

Fill your needs buckets on your own!: This one is also so important! First...you gotta figure out what your needs are. Surprisingly, a lot of people don't even know what needs they have. For example, I have a very very high need for humor/playfulness. It might seem like that can only be filled in a romantic relationship but it's not the case! I am in a great online community where people are very jokey. I watch movies or TV shows with a certain kind of humor. This is just one example. B ut learning how to meet your needs on your own will be paramount in you being able to move forward.


NOW all of this isn't going to change the fact that at first it is going to hurt like hell. It's so normal to want to know if they miss us and I will tell you that avoidants operate in a different world. Their "missing" feels different to them and they often dont even allow themselves to feel anything until weeks (or months) later. You on the other hand will feel pain RIGHT off the bat but you will move through it faster. You'll bleed more, but he will bleed longer. The NUMBER ONE piece of advice is: Absolutely NO contact whatsoever for AT LEAST 60 days (maybe 90). Or....maybe indefinitely. That means, no more chatting with his sister. No checking social media (if you can help it) NOTHING. Remember that our brains are hardwired to AVOID PAIN rather than SEEK PLEASURE so your brain will play a million tricks on you to get you to reach out or connect. This is driven by your brain's frantic efforts to avoid what it sees as imminent danger. It was helpful for me while moving through this month that when I am feeling that, to remind myself that it's perfectly normal. But it doesn't represent reality. I am safe. YOu will be safe.

I believe (and some people on this forum disagree with me) that being friends with an ex is fine and if you had a strong friendship with him I don't see a need to throw that away. But it's got to be sincere with no lingering feelings or "toxic hopefulness" as I like to call it. That is where our brains hold out hope (this is an especially painful thing for APs because it keeps them stuck in loops for long periods of time). It won't be easy but when you start to see the light on the other side, things will be SO CLEAR.


One of my favorite quotes is this one from Maya Angelou: "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time". You are an amazing, smart, confident person (I can tell from your posts) and he made the decision to not have you in his life. And this isn't the first time. Take him at his word, respect that he must live with his choices and start to BELIEVE that it's his loss (it is).

kittygirl .....
What can I say, thank you. That felt like a hug...from someone who knows what they’re talking about.I feel and agree with EVERYTHING you said but it’s so, so helpful to have you say it, and the way you say it. To you too, tnr9....I really appreciate all the advice I’ve gotten here. And Anne12....I’ll look at that now.  

I am on the personal development school forum! I’m a recent member! On the forum, I am user Annie B. I have a thread there about this exact thing, it has more details there, although everything you said is spot on without knowing all the details. I watched the break up course and the reprogramming one but did not do the actual workbook stuff yet, just watched the video parts while I was at work. I am going to commit to doing the workbook stuff this next week. I also want to do the shadow course.

I think our situations sound pretty comparable. My therapist said some very similar things as yours did to you. The couples therapist said he was extremely avoidant, so you’re right, my guy totally was. Like we were getting kinda somewhere, but it was also really unfulfilling because it was all about getting him to feel more secure (you and I had done a lot if that work on our own, am I right? So much so that we were able to not take the avoidance personally AND try to behave secure enough to help our partner as much as we could).

Oh, by the way, totally feel you on how this is not the same relationship/breakup as usual. Normally I move on fairly quickly and can stay friends, too - I think part of this I think it because I always held out a spot for my avoidant, so probably didn’t fully attach to anyone else...or maybe they didn’t check off boxes like I needed them to. I dunno, either way, this relationship is not like any others I’ve had. I wasn’t this anxious with anyone else, and now, I am more secure period, even with regards to my avoidant.

About bleeding more, that’s actually what I’m trying to do, I’m trying to process this as vigorously and thoroughly as possible, as quickly as I can, because I am so done with THIS, this life sucking energy that paints everything sad. I am tired of being sad about this. I hope I can get to the other side of this, fast. I did all I can do, after all.

You seem amazing, smart and confident too...it really is their loss. I have never truly let him walk away entirely, reaching out a year, two years later. But by my reaching out to him, he has not had to live with his choices. I was always fairly confident that he’d realize what a mistake he’d made but also felt confident that it would happen when it was too late, so Id reach out, because well, I wanted to avoid that tragedy. It’s time for me to stop seeing this as a tragedy.

About filling your own buckets....I think I manage do to do that fairly well...but I will try to do it better still. One thing that’s hard for me to get around or work with here, is that one of my huge needs at this point in my life is to have a family. Ive done a lot for a young woman...recorded an album, finished grad school, I learned some languages, etc., and not that my development is by any means finished, but I have an intense desire to have children at this point. I’m ready. And he said he was, too....I get freaked out by his determination to “find a wife” (which reminds me of Borat) because it implies that he too, has a sense of urgency about having a family. This is also what makes his unwillingness so confusing. If he felt we have a shot, and knows consciously that relationships take work, and heard from the therapist herself that he’s not giving it a chance by leaving and that we do have a chance at improving things if he stays, why wouldn’t he keep working on things? He knows how ready I am to have a family, and im pretty sure he thinks I’d be a great mom. It’s like he’s trying to convince himself he’s totally perfect and that everything will work if he has a better, more compatible partner. I really tried my hardest from what I felt was a secure place and it still didn’t work, and I get terrified at the thought that he’ll find someone to have kids with and that it really was me not being good enough, secure enough, calm enough. I also have that dread of being replaced.  But then, I also realized, man, he might not be great as a parent, and definitely co-parenting partner, if he doesn’t get at least a little less avoidant, and it just wasn’t really happening in couples therapy.

I won’t chat with his sister or friends anymore. Maybe we eventually can be friends, he mentioned that several times. Like he wants me in his life some way, but is not willing to do the work required to be in a healthy romantic partnership and knows it.

Thanks so much, kittygirl. If you’re on the other forum gimme a holler. . I’ll read some of your old posts in a bit, I’m curious about your situation.

anne12. Thank you, I will try these!