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Post by alexandra on Dec 24, 2020 19:36:25 GMT
henrietta777, when someone love bombs you, they don't see you as you are. They are projecting and acting on a fantasy. In my opinion, intense early love bombing happens for one of two reasons. Either it is conscious and manipulative behavior, ie learned by them earlier in life to get you to like them quickly before they flip the switch, and is likely symptomatic of a personality disorder. This one is about controlling you to do what they want. Or, it is not conscious or intentional but is instead reflective of an anxious-leaning attachment style (probably FA, possibly extreme AP), and stems from deep insecurity. In this case, what's happening is the person likes the idea of you and sees you as having "high value" against whatever their dream partner checklist is (even if it's all positive projection into the gaps of what they don't yet know about you or if it's about the checklist of traits itself and not about you as a person) and therefore makes them feel good about themselves because it reflects back on them having high enough value to snag someone like you and temporarily quiets their insecurity / anxiety. Until, it doesn't, because eventually it can't -- since their problems and feelings of low self-worth stem from themselves and not you, you didn't cause the problem and can't fix it, you can only be a temporary bandaid. When their feelings level out to be more normal, they start feeling crappy again and then resentful of YOU for not being their knight in shining armor. Neither of those scenarios are related to you or who you actually are at all. They simply are a red flag about the potential new partner's emotional instability and lack of potential to be a consistent and good partner to you.
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Post by henrietta777 on Dec 24, 2020 20:58:56 GMT
That was so helpful Alexandra. Both scenarios makes sense, and it could have been either. I remember thinking, ‘this is weird, I’m not being that open like he says, and he barely knows much about me (he weirdly hadn’t really asked about the fact I’m a professional musician/teacher, as an example), so it seemed to be based on very little of any substance.
The second scenario you mention sounds not dissimilar to slight narcissistic traits, too - with the idea of someone being ‘high value’ and them enjoying the fact you’re engaging. I tried to take his heat and intensity out of the situation by literally saying ‘hey, really, I think the way I’m being is pretty standard’, and should have left it at that. The next day (after this particular love bombing session I’ve in mind), I heard not a dicky bird from him all day, which was completely the opposite of how he’d been late the last evening, so I got triggered and pulled back in. I hope this is making sense.
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Post by henrietta777 on Dec 24, 2020 21:01:34 GMT
So that intensity followed by radio silence made me question whether I’d done something wrong, or more to the point just try to make sense of how someone’s ‘feelings’ could chop and change so drastically.
As an AP myself, when I met him I remember thinking crikey, this guy makes me seem pretty grounded....! But then I think the codependency /empath thing crept in - I didn’t want to write him off because I felt bad, judging him. I also didn’t want to believe that someone could be that manipulative!
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Post by alexandra on Dec 24, 2020 22:44:25 GMT
Judging someone isn't the same as recognizing that they're who they are and doing their own thing as a person yet not a good potential partner who can give you emotional stability. It doesn't need to be a binary either/or. This is actually an insecure attachment thing, and definitely something APs can think: if you choose not to date him it's because you've "judged" him negatively. And vice-versa, which makes you perceive you're being judged if the guy doesn't want to date you. It's part of the AP distorted thinking narrative, though. Whether or not someone wants to date you is actually neutral, especially at the beginning. It's not about lack in either of you necessarily but rather incompatibility longer term, which doesn't necessarily mean anyone is bad or did anything wrong. It just is.
APs frame everything negatively and in terms of being transactional in a way and desiring reciprocity (if everyone isn't on the same page, then it's someone's fault). This is related to being on guard, scanning for threats, your attachment system being activated anxious but triggering AP insecure thoughts of "others are better than self," leading to seeing yourself negatively if there's perceived rejection, and perhaps feeling a compulsion to reconnect to quiet that anxiety and negative self-talk.
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Post by henrietta777 on Dec 24, 2020 23:39:55 GMT
You’re absolutely right and frankly should be a counsellor on this stuff. Cant tell you how much your thoughts are helping to arrange mine so thank you so much for taking the time.
I have a habit of always ignoring my gut instinct, which feels pretty strong, and it always always backfires, so that’s a huge learning for me.
I’ve done some journaling tonight around this which has helped, in terms of stepping forwards to put a stop to things when I know that the person doesn’t ‘feel’ right.
I guess the leftover bit that I’m ruminating on is how he could’ve u turned in under 12 hours when nothing seemed to massively change from my side. He was still effectively love bombing - calling me in the evening, talking about when I met his dogs etc etc. I guess to then call it off really triggered the AP in me massively and it didn’t end well as a result because I felt such conflictive distortion. It felt like I’d just been a sitting duck that whole time, just waiting on his whims....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2020 0:25:10 GMT
You’re absolutely right and frankly should be a counsellor on this stuff. Cant tell you how much your thoughts are helping to arrange mine so thank you so much for taking the time. I have a habit of always ignoring my gut instinct, which feels pretty strong, and it always always backfires, so that’s a huge learning for me. I’ve done some journaling tonight around this which has helped, in terms of stepping forwards to put a stop to things when I know that the person doesn’t ‘feel’ right. I guess the leftover bit that I’m ruminating on is how he could’ve u turned in under 12 hours when nothing seemed to massively change from my side. He was still effectively love bombing - calling me in the evening, talking about when I met his dogs etc etc. I guess to then call it off really triggered the AP in me massively and it didn’t end well as a result because I felt such conflictive distortion. It felt like I’d just been a sitting duck that whole time, just waiting on his whims.... This is really important. Sometimes people say things like "yes be open with me, i love honesty" but they aren't really ready to deal with that honesty and the things you tell them. They want to feel trusted but they aren't really ready to be trustworthy to you. So, it's not that being honest is unattractive, it's that it's unattractive to those who aren't willing/able to deal with honesty. Is that someone you want? I think the AP trigger is compounded by the fact that you somewhat "know" it's not great but you still took a shot, so not only are you hurt by this behavior, there's implicit self blame for taking a risk on yourself as well (re what you said about gut instinct!). You also mentioned being a sitting duck and waiting on his whims - this is also important. it's a cue on taking self-responsibility and having some control over yourself and your situation. |
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Post by henrietta777 on Dec 25, 2020 18:58:05 GMT
Yes absolutely shining star. I was doing alright before this. Building my life up, in spite of Covid-19, and feeling on more of an even keel.
It’s hard to meet eligible guys where I’m currently living, so I guess when someone comes along and seems like they really seem to get and like what you’re about, when they swiftly withdraw and dump you (presumably for someone or something they deem more desirable), it feels like a comedown. And on top of that, there’s very few people to meet!
I am a relatively open person - that’s always been who I am. I enjoy banter and humour massively but don’t skate on the surface much, as I’m a naturally curious person and find that the only way to get to know someone is to be relatively open and ask what I like to think are interesting questions. I don’t want to have to change who I am, but I guess it’s not about that. It’s about changing my response to their behaviour and nipping things in the bud before they become serious or my attachment is triggered. Often it’s less about the person as well, and more about the ‘loss’ of a perceived ‘potential’, particularly when I know I would really like to be back in a relationship after a fair while out of one (18 months)...
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Post by anne12 on Dec 25, 2020 19:26:41 GMT
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Post by henrietta777 on Dec 25, 2020 19:38:23 GMT
Anne - I met him once, and the date lasted the weekend. But overall, it was 5 weeks of intense talking every night/all day, with what felt like a sense of momentum and us both being in our thirties and on the same page. Perhaps just a load of future faking.
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Post by anne12 on Dec 25, 2020 19:48:08 GMT
Wow, that sounds very intense.
When you move that fast, you can risk falling in love almost right away as an ap or an fa
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Post by henrietta777 on Dec 25, 2020 20:06:39 GMT
Anne - he led/set the pace it felt, though afterwards he said he ‘disagreed that he had pursued me’. Some of his messages were really full on, even up until the night before he called it off with no warning.
I don’t think I fell in love. I don’t even know who he was really, looking back, if he was able to say all that stuff and then just turn on his heel.
I don’t get how people can be the intense ones and then just move on without a second thought, leaving the one who was trying to just see it for what it was feeling absolutely horrendous and utterly bamboozled as to what the hell just happened. Like it was a dream... or in his words, ‘sorry to put you through this rollercoaster’...
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Post by anne12 on Dec 25, 2020 20:15:33 GMT
You need to do slow dating, you need some boundaries. If the other one moves too fast you have to ask the person to slow down. It is not healthy to move that fast. You need pauses to be able to give yourself time to sence and regulate so that you can better get in touch with your intuition. It sounds like you felt your intuition (your NO), but then you started doubting yourself or ? It is recommended to keep the first couple of dates short - (around 2 hours) (Meeting a couple of times per week in the start up phase is often recommended for aps. This will give some pease in the ambivalents nerveussystem.) The ap can loose themselves, they can leave themselves when dating, and can become preoccupied with the other person. They need to pause and regulate, go for a walk, ask a friend ect.. If the ap can pause, they can actually feel their own boundaries and get in touch with their wants and needs. The ap have to ask themselves: "what about me, what do I want and need ? Do I want him ? Why ? (why helps you to get up in your head) Is there something that I need instead of him ? What could that be ? How can I get this in other ways in my life ?"ect...Do you know how to ask the right questions ? (Like a Sherlock Holmes detective) - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/26367/ - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/26262/The fa can also have trouble feeling their own boundaies (and other peoples boundaries) Because they are desociated. Or they can feel their bounderies, but be in doubt if their boundareis are okay, because their boundareis have been crossed in their childhood. They can walk right into danger They also have to regulate, and ask some of their (male) friends what they think ect. Both aps and expecially fas can have a tendencie to overshare and move too fast. Leaning back, be observing, sence, do ping pong conversation, notise if words and actions are alinged are all good things to do/notise when dating someone.. He can be a narc, he can be ap or fa. Ap can loose interest when the other person becomes too available. FAs can be in high arousel when dating, move fast as hell and suddenlly flip and turn around and shut down and end things aruptly. If the other is charming and intense and it is too good to be true, then be aware of psychopathic and narcissistic features. This happens until you have surendered yourself to the other person. You can try to yawn and watch if the other person mirrors You. If not it may be a warning sign.You can also try to provoke the person early on - by saying no to something they want. Try to say no to a date, a vacation ect. Sometimes they then will suddenly show their true colours. They do not like being told no. They can be very intuitive and they can try to read you and tell you, what you are longing to hear. Who attracts narcs: jebkinnisonforum.com/post/36895/ - listen to the first youtube clip with Dr. Ramani about why people going through life transitions are vulnerable to narcissists How does being with a narcissist affect your body, mind, and soul? www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=eJr1WQyNpH4 |
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Post by alexandra on Dec 25, 2020 20:30:14 GMT
henrietta777, I've actually had this happen to me a few times. I learned after the second time what an enormous red flag it is about the person and their total lack of emotional stability because I got to see some stuff play out longer-term. The guy sent me literally 1600 messages in 3 weeks. We saw each other a bunch in person, too, and it was littered with red flags I didn't understand were red flags. He spoke disparagingly about exes who got "obsessed" with him, introduced me to friends who said they'd never seen him like a woman as much as me (they also hadn't known him that long), it was very full on. He flipped and ended things suddenly, and even though I was still trying to figure out how much I liked him, it felt like withdrawal for a couple weeks for him not to be constantly blowing up my phone. I knew it was him and not me because he jumped into how he wasn't ready for marriage and needed to focus on his career and I was like WHAT?? Marriage? It's been a month. How about we figure out if we want to keep dating first? We attempted to see if we could be friends. This lasted another 3 weeks. We hung out once in a small group and went out for the night. I realized on that night he had an alcohol problem. It was fun but strange. We saw each other one more time after that: he was drunk and said vile, horrible things to me for no reason. I had an anxiety attack and realized I'd only ever felt that way one time before... when the first guy who love bombed me then flipped was gaslighting me. After my anxiety attack passed, I recognized the feeling was oh, he was gaslighting me. I never spoke to him again. Years later, a friend went on a few dates with him. I didn't know until after, and she didn't know I knew him. He did the exact. Same. Thing. To. Her. Flipped a switch after a brief time. Nothing changed except now he's apparently openly full on into hard drugs, too. She was really upset until I made the connection and told her what happened to me. Bullet dodged. I was still AP when I met him. My friend is AP, too. The fast forward whirlwind thing is not a good sign, and will always inevitably turn into a roller coaster. But it actually is a good sign you can't comprehend how someone could flip and treat you that way because it means you don't identify with such an incredibly unstable mindset. I feel bad for people who act that way now and don't stick around anymore when I meet someone new like that (I met one person like that earlier this year, who wasn't vindictive, but love bombed me then ghosted only 10 days in when I didn't respond in kind and tried to slow down the speed, which validated that I was correct). They are such deeply unhappy people who don't know how to or may not want to figure out how to climb out of it. But it has zero to do with me, and it's not a reflection on me.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 25, 2020 21:03:08 GMT
I'd also recommend you look up "object constancy" and "object permanence." People who flip can have a lot of trouble with it, which is connected to their instability and their own mental health issues.
I also agree strongly with what anne is saying about exploring your own boundaries and making sure they are healthy. That's the first step in recognizing these situations. But healthy doesn't mean distrusting everyone and erecting walls. It does mean trusting yourself more than most APs tend to do, though.
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Post by henrietta777 on Dec 25, 2020 23:02:01 GMT
Alexandra and Anne - thank you. For some reason I’m not given the option of responding directly to your messages, which is frustrating.
I have just had a brief look into object permanence/constancy and it really resonates. A fair amount to take in there but high levels of relevance. I am going to digest it and think about my response to your previous comments but just wanted to reiterate my thanks for taking the time to write your insights and being able to unpick some of what’s happened over the past month through your help has been so reassuring. I hope you’ve had lovely Christmas Days.
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