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Post by feelingmore on Dec 29, 2020 7:16:41 GMT
Hi all,
I am wondering how I can work towards becoming mentally strong and attaining comfort and emotional security in my relationship.
I am FA and boyfriend is DA in a long-distance relationship for about 9 months. At times, I will be left without a message back for long hours which turns into days - this worries me quite a bit. Though I know that, when this happens, my partner is preoccupied with something else, my mind can't help but to conclude that they will leave or disappear on me. This has happened before in our relationship where they've cut off contact with me then resurfaced out of the blue months later. I believe that this is where my anxiety stems, and I have been having difficulty with how to manage my internal neuroticism. Sometimes it gets to the point where that is all I can think about.
I'm a very expressive person in general, but I find it difficult to do that with my partner as I'm fearful that they don't reciprocate the same feelings. Recently, I gave my partner a sappy card with all of the "I love you's" and such. Since then, my partner has been withdrawn and barely talking to me or reaching out. In my opinion, this was a huge step for me to express my feelings to my partner as we don't verbally exchange a lot of these lovey words.
I want to be able to reach a point in our relationship that I am comfortable in truly expressing my feelings towards him, because I feel like I'm holding back due to fear. But since this, I believe that my fears are true - that my partner doesn't reciprocate the same feelings which has been causing him to withdraw from me.
Like the title of this thread suggests, I am also quite scared of being vulnerable to my boyfriend. I'm unsure of how to navigate romantic relationships and allowing myself to be emotionally vulnerable with him.
Every time I open myself up even just a little bit, it seems that he recluses back into his shell. Though I think that I understand why he does that, it brings me great anxiety to the point of neuroticism.
How do I move forward with allowing myself to be more vulnerable? Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated ♥️
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 29, 2020 18:11:57 GMT
Hi all, I am wondering how I can work towards becoming mentally strong and attaining comfort and emotional security in my relationship. I am FA and boyfriend is DA in a long-distance relationship for about 9 months. At times, I will be left without a message back for long hours which turns into days - this worries me quite a bit. Though I know that, when this happens, my partner is preoccupied with something else, my mind can't help but to conclude that they will leave or disappear on me. This has happened before in our relationship where they've cut off contact with me then resurfaced out of the blue months later. I believe that this is where my anxiety stems, and I have been having difficulty with how to manage my internal neuroticism. Sometimes it gets to the point where that is all I can think about. I'm a very expressive person in general, but I find it difficult to do that with my partner as I'm fearful that they don't reciprocate the same feelings. Recently, I gave my partner a sappy card with all of the "I love you's" and such. Since then, my partner has been withdrawn and barely talking to me or reaching out. In my opinion, this was a huge step for me to express my feelings to my partner as we don't verbally exchange a lot of these lovey words. I want to be able to reach a point in our relationship that I am comfortable in truly expressing my feelings towards him, because I feel like I'm holding back due to fear. But since this, I believe that my fears are true - that my partner doesn't reciprocate the same feelings which has been causing him to withdraw from me. Like the title of this thread suggests, I am also quite scared of being vulnerable to my boyfriend. I'm unsure of how to navigate romantic relationships and allowing myself to be emotionally vulnerable with him. Every time I open myself up even just a little bit, it seems that he recluses back into his shell. Though I think that I understand why he does that, it brings me great anxiety to the point of neuroticism. How do I move forward with allowing myself to be more vulnerable? Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated ♥️ Hi there...are you in therapy? I would suggest highly that you find a good therapist to help you with the uncomfortable feelings you are experiencing. I have always found it challenging to change behaviors while in a relationship that triggers me anxious.....especially if that partner is not in therapy for his own attachment issues. Do you get a sense that your partner is willing to work on his avoidance issues?
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Post by feelingmore on Dec 30, 2020 3:38:32 GMT
tnr9 Hi, yes I'm in therapy but much less so since the start of the pandemic. I've talked about this a bit with my therapist and she suggested couple's therapy. Though I think my partner is DA, he himself thinks he's quite secure... Which makes me question myself... whether or not I'm just creating anxieties for myself out of the blue. I haven't asked him if he would consider therapy with me, but I don't think he would want to.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 30, 2020 3:58:35 GMT
feelingmore, does your partner respond to your anxiety with empathy and understanding, or does he make you feel "less than" for it? Does he talk it through with you at all or does he shut down immediately?
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Post by feelingmore on Dec 30, 2020 10:47:39 GMT
feelingmore , does your partner respond to your anxiety with empathy and understanding, or does he make you feel "less than" for it? Does he talk it through with you at all or does he shut down immediately? I've only expressed certain serious concerns or expressions of my feelings towards him about a handful of times. Each time I do, it seems that he tries to "get it over with" as soon as he can. For instance, during times when he's stressed about something else, he will address my concerns but will not really delve deeper into it. Other times when things are ok with him, he will just brush it off as if I'm crazy for thinking something so terrible... as if I'm so insecure (maybe I am...?) I've done some reflection, and maybe I am wrong about him... I think it's possible that may be FA and not DA ... maybe my AP tendencies are provoking his avoidance. Sometimes, at random moments it seems, he will bring something up very casually... like: "I'm afraid one day you're going to leave me for someone because you'll realize I'm not good enough for you..." To me, that is a valid concern and when I try to address it, he won't want to talk about it any further. He won't even let me soothe him. He's had trust issues with women before, stemming back to his early childhood so I am trying to tread lightly.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 31, 2020 10:30:08 GMT
feelingmore , I was asking because you were second-guessing yourself. I agree with your opinion that his behaviors sound FA, and that you can trust your gut so far on what you've said about this. His responses are definitely not secure. I think you're asking a really good and courageous question, and one that's really important for you yourself to get more secure. All insecure types (whether anxious or avoidant) have issues with being vulnerable, because none are truly emotionally available. All 3 types, AP, DA, and FA, have difficulty connecting to themselves and difficulty communicating, even though it can manifest differently. There's some good info on the forum if you search fawn, freeze, and flee about the different patterns people with insecure attachment styles may use to cope with intimacy, confrontation, vulnerability... anything they are uncomfortable with. The catch-22 about insecure attachment is that, even though you may crave stability and security, it's pretty difficult to choose partners who don't trigger you (at least when you are unaware about attachment, like attracts like, meaning insecure attracts insecure, usually in an anxious-avoidant pairing or FA-FA who then trigger each other into a similar anxious-avoidant dynamic). But that's a problem because when you feel distrustful of other people in general, and then choose someone who doesn't necessarily have the capacity to be an emotionally safe person to open up to because of their own issues, then if you get hurt by being vulnerable and receiving a negative response when you've opened up then you will feel like, my bias is justified: I can't trust other people. So subconsciously, insecure actually choose partners who will prove this bias right, and then use it as an excuse to distance from real intimacy themselves. At the same time though, subconsciously, choosing partners in this way happens because you feel an attraction to something familiar you connect with, which in itself may trigger your attachment issues, because you're hoping on some level that things will play out differently this time and be corrected. That someone who has their own issues will change and treat you differently, which will in turn help you heal from something that happened in your own past. That's a lot of heavy stuff, and I'm saying it to give you context, not to dissuade you. Like I started with, it's so important that you're trying to improve your own ability to be present and vulnerable, and that you're trying to make your relationship more fulfilling for yourself. Those are both secure behaviors, and they are behaviors that were difficult but eventually helped me in my relationships. I think you can do what you're asking. A way to do it is to practice understanding your own needs first (connecting to yourself, being honest with yourself), and then communicating them as directly as possible without any agenda other than communicating. But the trick is, you will need to depersonalize whatever his responses are, because they don't actually reflect on you. If he doesn't want to talk about something or is being dismissive of you, it's not your fault and it's probably not actually about what you said. Fearful avoidants, as you probably experience yourself, fear both abandonment and engulfment. Being vulnerable opens you up to experiencing either of those fears (or even both). Someone "receiving" your vulnerability may feel just as deeply uncomfortable to receive it because it's foreign to that person, too, and so doesn't feel safe. The way to deal with this is to not abandon yourself if your partner isn't responding how you'd like. If he wants to rush out of the conversation, that will trigger a fear of abandonment in you, as he is likely feeling a fear of engulfment at the same time. What I eventually found when I had a deep fear of abandonment was that it was because I was getting my external validation and emotional regulation (so, feeling good about myself) from other people. Others were defining me, which is very typical for an AP or an anxious-leaning FA. So it felt like I'd have nothing if someone I cared about left, and I'd be defensive and take everything personally and act out of fear. I had to start practicing connecting to myself, communicating even if I didn't like the response, depersonalizing it, and seeing that no matter how negatively someone responded -- I would still be okay. I was going to survive, even if my anxiety was triggered and I felt a desperate need to reconnect and not be abandoned. It felt miserable to be triggered anxious, but it would also eventually pass and I'd be okay because I'm an adult. Forcing myself to practice that (while at the same time working on my esteem and self-acceptance in other ways) eventually helped a lot in reconditioning my triggers. Best case scenario, your boyfriend actually sees the change in you and responds in kind, because more open communication in a relationship makes it better, and because you can have vulnerable moments and maybe even disagreements but not break up over them. The way I did this was to force myself to open up to my FA now ex-boyfriend, and to just practice. Often, in that situation, he wasn't really a safe person emotionally to open up to so he'd usually get triggered in the moment and then run away. BUT, as long as I remained calm when that happened (so that he'd learn I was a safe person to have deep discussions with and I wasn't going to punish him for freaking out), then if I gave him a few days to a couple weeks to calm down and I asked to revisit the conversation when he felt more comfortable, and I pushed him to talk a bit but it was still mostly on his schedule, he'd eventually be present to have whatever discussion with me needed to be covered. I did need to be very clear, to know what I wanted to say, and to try to keep it short-ish and direct so he wouldn't get overwhelmed. But if I did all these things, he'd start to open IF I initiated and led it. He still wouldn't take any initiative himself, and his lack of vulnerable communication with me actually led to our first breakup. My forcing myself to go through this exercise of talking to him vulnerably was me trying to correct our prior communication failures, before I understood it was actually attachment issues on both our sides. However, even though he didn't grow into a better communicator and we eventually broke up again, working through that with him when he had the patience to put his own fear aside and do it was really, really helpful for ME since I was working towards being more secure on my own. Really listening to him when he was participating in these conversations helped me see a different perspective on how other people think differently than I do (and not always choose the assumptions and narrative that reflected most badly on me, not blame myself: actually start depersonalizing). I would actually recommend that if you do these things I'm describing, you might want to start off practicing being more vulnerable with someone else in your life who is secure or whom you have a secure dynamic with first. That may help you get to a point where you feel more comfortable connecting with yourself because you won't get a triggering response from a person who is safer to open up to, if you do have anyone like that in your life. One of the benefits of therapy is supposed to be establishing a secure dynamic with the therapist so that you start to model what a secure dynamic looks like, what it feels like to have a safe person to trust, how to choose someone safe to open up to. Again, back to what I wrote before about opening up to someone who isn't emotionally safe-- I don't want you to end up feeling closed off and like everyone is this way if your boyfriend isn't responding how you want. You can't control how other people respond, you can only control yourself and who you choose. If he doesn't feel comfortable right away with you opening up, and he doesn't take it as an invitation to reciprocate, that doesn't mean you've done anything wrong or bad. It just means you're in different points in your process. I appreciate that this is all much easier said than done, and mostly I hope it just gives you some ideas to think about. And that others chime in with their opinions, too. I also recommend you look at anne12's thread on different exercises to work on healing FA (disorganized) attachment, in addition to whatever you're working on with your therapist. The more secure you get in general, believe it or not the more natural and easier it will get to be vulnerable. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1073/healing-disorganized-attatchment-chock-traumaGood luck! I hope he ends up being inspired by your better communication, but you can't expect it or try to influence how he responds or what he does. Focusing on yourself and the changes you're hoping to make, and saying whatever you need to in spite of however he responds, is the key to you eventually improving your own relationship satisfaction level and decreasing your fear and anxious triggering.
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Post by feelingmore on Jan 2, 2021 8:46:49 GMT
feelingmore , I was asking because you were second-guessing yourself. I agree with your opinion that his behaviors sound FA, and that you can trust your gut so far on what you've said about this. His responses are definitely not secure. I think you're asking a really good and courageous question, and one that's really important for you yourself to get more secure. All insecure types (whether anxious or avoidant) have issues with being vulnerable, because none are truly emotionally available. All 3 types, AP, DA, and FA, have difficulty connecting to themselves and difficulty communicating, even though it can manifest differently. There's some good info on the forum if you search fawn, freeze, and flee about the different patterns people with insecure attachment styles may use to cope with intimacy, confrontation, vulnerability... anything they are uncomfortable with. The catch-22 about insecure attachment is that, even though you may crave stability and security, it's pretty difficult to choose partners who don't trigger you (at least when you are unaware about attachment, like attracts like, meaning insecure attracts insecure, usually in an anxious-avoidant pairing or FA-FA who then trigger each other into a similar anxious-avoidant dynamic). But that's a problem because when you feel distrustful of other people in general, and then choose someone who doesn't necessarily have the capacity to be an emotionally safe person to open up to because of their own issues, then if you get hurt by being vulnerable and receiving a negative response when you've opened up then you will feel like, my bias is justified: I can't trust other people. So subconsciously, insecure actually choose partners who will prove this bias right, and then use it as an excuse to distance from real intimacy themselves. At the same time though, subconsciously, choosing partners in this way happens because you feel an attraction to something familiar you connect with, which in itself may trigger your attachment issues, because you're hoping on some level that things will play out differently this time and be corrected. That someone who has their own issues will change and treat you differently, which will in turn help you heal from something that happened in your own past. That's a lot of heavy stuff, and I'm saying it to give you context, not to dissuade you. Like I started with, it's so important that you're trying to improve your own ability to be present and vulnerable, and that you're trying to make your relationship more fulfilling for yourself. Those are both secure behaviors, and they are behaviors that were difficult but eventually helped me in my relationships. I think you can do what you're asking. A way to do it is to practice understanding your own needs first (connecting to yourself, being honest with yourself), and then communicating them as directly as possible without any agenda other than communicating. But the trick is, you will need to depersonalize whatever his responses are, because they don't actually reflect on you. If he doesn't want to talk about something or is being dismissive of you, it's not your fault and it's probably not actually about what you said. Fearful avoidants, as you probably experience yourself, fear both abandonment and engulfment. Being vulnerable opens you up to experiencing either of those fears (or even both). Someone "receiving" your vulnerability may feel just as deeply uncomfortable to receive it because it's foreign to that person, too, and so doesn't feel safe. The way to deal with this is to not abandon yourself if your partner isn't responding how you'd like. If he wants to rush out of the conversation, that will trigger a fear of abandonment in you, as he is likely feeling a fear of engulfment at the same time. What I eventually found when I had a deep fear of abandonment was that it was because I was getting my external validation and emotional regulation (so, feeling good about myself) from other people. Others were defining me, which is very typical for an AP or an anxious-leaning FA. So it felt like I'd have nothing if someone I cared about left, and I'd be defensive and take everything personally and act out of fear. I had to start practicing connecting to myself, communicating even if I didn't like the response, depersonalizing it, and seeing that no matter how negatively someone responded -- I would still be okay. I was going to survive, even if my anxiety was triggered and I felt a desperate need to reconnect and not be abandoned. It felt miserable to be triggered anxious, but it would also eventually pass and I'd be okay because I'm an adult. Forcing myself to practice that (while at the same time working on my esteem and self-acceptance in other ways) eventually helped a lot in reconditioning my triggers. Best case scenario, your boyfriend actually sees the change in you and responds in kind, because more open communication in a relationship makes it better, and because you can have vulnerable moments and maybe even disagreements but not break up over them. The way I did this was to force myself to open up to my FA now ex-boyfriend, and to just practice. Often, in that situation, he wasn't really a safe person emotionally to open up to so he'd usually get triggered in the moment and then run away. BUT, as long as I remained calm when that happened (so that he'd learn I was a safe person to have deep discussions with and I wasn't going to punish him for freaking out), then if I gave him a few days to a couple weeks to calm down and I asked to revisit the conversation when he felt more comfortable, and I pushed him to talk a bit but it was still mostly on his schedule, he'd eventually be present to have whatever discussion with me needed to be covered. I did need to be very clear, to know what I wanted to say, and to try to keep it short-ish and direct so he wouldn't get overwhelmed. But if I did all these things, he'd start to open IF I initiated and led it. He still wouldn't take any initiative himself, and his lack of vulnerable communication with me actually led to our first breakup. My forcing myself to go through this exercise of talking to him vulnerably was me trying to correct our prior communication failures, before I understood it was actually attachment issues on both our sides. However, even though he didn't grow into a better communicator and we eventually broke up again, working through that with him when he had the patience to put his own fear aside and do it was really, really helpful for ME since I was working towards being more secure on my own. Really listening to him when he was participating in these conversations helped me see a different perspective on how other people think differently than I do (and not always choose the assumptions and narrative that reflected most badly on me, not blame myself: actually start depersonalizing). I would actually recommend that if you do these things I'm describing, you might want to start off practicing being more vulnerable with someone else in your life who is secure or whom you have a secure dynamic with first. That may help you get to a point where you feel more comfortable connecting with yourself because you won't get a triggering response from a person who is safer to open up to, if you do have anyone like that in your life. One of the benefits of therapy is supposed to be establishing a secure dynamic with the therapist so that you start to model what a secure dynamic looks like, what it feels like to have a safe person to trust, how to choose someone safe to open up to. Again, back to what I wrote before about opening up to someone who isn't emotionally safe-- I don't want you to end up feeling closed off and like everyone is this way if your boyfriend isn't responding how you want. You can't control how other people respond, you can only control yourself and who you choose. If he doesn't feel comfortable right away with you opening up, and he doesn't take it as an invitation to reciprocate, that doesn't mean you've done anything wrong or bad. It just means you're in different points in your process. I appreciate that this is all much easier said than done, and mostly I hope it just gives you some ideas to think about. And that others chime in with their opinions, too. I also recommend you look at anne12's thread on different exercises to work on healing FA (disorganized) attachment, in addition to whatever you're working on with your therapist. The more secure you get in general, believe it or not the more natural and easier it will get to be vulnerable. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1073/healing-disorganized-attatchment-chock-traumaGood luck! I hope he ends up being inspired by your better communication, but you can't expect it or try to influence how he responds or what he does. Focusing on yourself and the changes you're hoping to make, and saying whatever you need to in spite of however he responds, is the key to you eventually improving your own relationship satisfaction level and decreasing your fear and anxious triggering. Thank you for your detailed advice, I appreciate it so much and will apply it to my relationship. My therapist has noted that I may have trust issues with him, since he has left me (ghosted) me before. And that it may be hard to overcome these, given our insecure attachments and his unwillingness to work through these or to attend individual/couples therapy. I fear that continuation of this dynamic is going to set up an awful framework for the long run. The biggest issue for me at the moment is concerning one thing: he’s said “I love you” a couple times to me, but will say “I think” or “I guess” afterwards. It’s hurtful to me because it feels like he doesn’t actually mean it, which maybe he doesn’t. I’ve asked him to not say “I love you” unless he actually knows, not just thinks (my therapists advice). And since then, he hasn’t said I love you to me. It’s causing me an emotional headache. I’m afraid this insecure dynamic is going to wear me out.
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Post by anne12 on Jan 2, 2021 9:55:11 GMT
If his avoidant they often say "I think..." as they are very much up in their head, having difficulty feeling their body and their emotions. www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Eph9Z96NF4E&feature=youtu.bejebkinnisonforum.com/post/31532/I would also take eachothers lovelanguage into consideration - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/31947/Maybe saying/writing "I love you" is a big thing to him. Maybe it makes him feel uncomftable ? Maybe he is not there yet ? Maybe he dosent come from a home where his parents ect. used theese words ? Maybe you are touching one of his shame bottons ?.Shame shuts down the ability to be voulnarble. Maybe he thinks, that when you/he uses the word "love" it means that you are going to get married ? Maybe he is masculine and move slow (it can take up to two years for the masculine to fully commit, while the feminine wants to commit after around 2-3 months) ect... Maybe you can try to make a wish list, with 10 different ways he can help you to show you, that he loves/likes you ? Loving someone dosent mean, that saying the word LOVE is the only way to express love. It can be said/done in many different ways. jebkinnisonforum.com/post/30609/"...For instance, during times when he's stressed about something else, he will address my concerns but will not really delve deeper...." - - -sounds like its a bad idea to expect him to delve deeper, when he is stressed.... What are your concerns ? What is it that you want to communicate to him ? What is your request ? You can try to "book" a meeting with him. Theres this model for the good conversation: The good conversation: 0. Tell your partner that you would like to have a talk. 1. Agree a time when it suits both of you - when there is time, no stress ect. 2. A, tell what your purpose is with the conversation. What do you want to achieve? "I wish we could spend more time together" 3. What is the deeper need? e.g. "I want to feel more connected with you", "I want to feel that I matter to you' ect. 4. How important is the need in the head on a scale from 1-10? How important is the need in the heart on a scale from 1-10? (there can be a difference from the feeling in the head to the feeling in the heart) 5. B tries to imagine/feel the importance of the conversation for A and A s need 6. What does it do to B that A has this need and the importance of As need? 7. A asks B what do you need from me to be able to help provide this need of mine ?....... You can get more inspiration in the thread called "how to create a longlasting juicy relationship" -generel discussion forum
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Post by alexandra on Jan 3, 2021 0:06:56 GMT
feelingmore , none of my FA exes ever could say "I love you" to me. Even after several years. It's not about you, it's likely about them never receiving healthy love in the past and not knowing how to accept it or respond, in addition to not trusting themselves (or others) and doubting they even know what "love" is so not wanting to commit to it. Ambivalence about the whole thing, and even about who they are or what they want in a partner, because nothing feels altogether safe or comfortable (due to their own attachment issues). Avoidants need to feel they have one foot in and one foot out in order to not get triggered by too much intimacy and to remain comfortable in the pairing. It's related to feeling like they have enough control and won't be engulfed by the partner (even if it's all projection and in their own heads and the partner isn't crossing any healthy boundaries). I think what anne12 is saying is right, too. You also may be more familiar with some of these feelings than I am since you've stated you're FA and I was AP, and maybe you have a different take. But on the AP side, and I believe for FA triggered anxious as well, love is confused with longing and feeling overwhelmed. So if you aren't feeling that pull constantly, you may doubt your feelings, when it's actually just being triggered anxious. But you (general you) don't know any better. You do need to decide if his inability to say I love you is a dealbreaker for you. But you can also look more into love languages and decide if he's communicating it in a different way than words and if that's enough for you, or if words of affirmation is your main love language and never hearing it will be too difficult. This is tied into what I said in my last post about de-personalizing things and improving your own communication while being open to really listening if his communication style is different. And if, in total, you eventually considering if any of that even matters or if there's not enough compatibility for you to truly be happy and comfortable longer-term.
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