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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2021 4:27:33 GMT
I'm looking for input from anxiously attached, concerning the need for reassurance. What does that look and feel like? I'm not sure if this means reassurance about the relationship, validation for the self concerning particular traits, or what kind of reassurance. Can someone help explain this and how that presents in your relationship ships?
Thanks in advance!
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Post by alexandra on Jun 20, 2021 4:45:48 GMT
Everything comes down to a fear of abandonment and trusting others over self. AP look for external emotional regulation because they effectively abandon themselves during periods of disconnection from attachment figures. This may not even be a real disconnection, but it's the perception of one which could then lead to abandonment / inability to survive.
This is often due to inconsistent parenting... the child internalized it by blaming themselves and looks for the magic formula to get their needs met ie sometimes they get their needs met so when they don't, it's their own fault for not being good enough and they need to try harder. They weren't taught to self-soothe with good boundaries because the family was probably making the kid parent and/or validate the adults, normalizing others emotionally regulating you instead of you doing it yourself.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 20, 2021 4:51:03 GMT
It feels horrible, stressful, uncontrolled, desperate need to reconnect and make it stop, very overactive nervous system response, perhaps can't eat or sleep properly until it passes, obsessive circular thoughts, and telling yourself the most negative story about your self and why you will be abandoned (and perhaps why you deserve it). Nothing can really fix it besides learning to self-emotionally regulate, but reassurance a partner is not judging or leaving (even just a hug sometimes) can calm it until that happens.
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Post by anne12 on Jun 20, 2021 6:10:58 GMT
I Think it depends of in what type of situations ?
Where is the person on the AP spectrum ?
Aware/unaware AP ?
Triggers ? Special wounds ?
With the sad type, who implodes or with the angry type who explodes and blames ?
In stressfull situations (because of outside stressors) or because of some stressors in the relationship or just when things are "normal" ?
(male/female ?)
Together with a secure, an avoidant a desorganised or ? (People can have a mix)
Living together or apart ?
When you are spending weekends together or when you are apert ?
Lovelanguage ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2021 8:47:00 GMT
Thank you, alexandra and anne12. I am unclear on what the "need for reassurance" means when I read about it, here and other places. Like in articles that describe ambivalent /AP , in the general sense. So are there actual verbal requests for reassurance that the partner loves them? For example asking in earnest "Do you love me? Do you want to be with me?" Or are manifestations of this more covert like being insecure about themselves, but not letting on about that and just secretly wondering if the partner will leave? I guess I'm just looking for what the dialog would look like on the anxious end, if that makes sense. Is it needing too much conversation about a stressor going on? Is that anxious, needing to talk about something they are facing (which seems healthy to me ) but to the point that a partner feels overwhelmed by it? Is that also considered a need for reassurance? Or is it more about being reassured about the relationship itself? |
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Post by anne12 on Jun 20, 2021 8:47:57 GMT
Ap Together with Da jebkinnisonforum.com/post/31563/Try to read the first long post in the healing AP thread - once the AP feel truely committed they tend to ..... Theres also a post about how to apologize They can think do you love me, will you stay with me ect. but not always ask about this... Some APs are more talkative than others. Aps tend to be more feminine leaning. They can also say out loud or think inside of them selves: "yeah, yeah you are here right now, but what about tomorrow, then you propberly will be gone" Sometimes you can tell that something is up when they do some of their protest behaviors, if they are getting into a victim role ect. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 20, 2021 10:04:08 GMT
Thank you, alexandra and anne12 . I am unclear on what the "need for reassurance" means when I read about it, here and other places. Like in articles that describe ambivalent /AP , in the general sense. So are there actual verbal requests for reassurance that the partner loves them? For example asking in earnest "Do you love me? Do you want to be with me?" Or are manifestations of this more covert like being insecure about themselves, but not letting on about that and just secretly wondering if the partner will leave? I guess I'm just looking for what the dialog would look like on the anxious end, if that makes sense. Is it needing too much conversation about a stressor going on? Is that anxious, needing to talk about something they are facing (which seems healthy to me ) but to the point that a partner feels overwhelmed by it? Is that also considered a need for reassurance? Or is it more about being reassured about the relationship itself? It can feel like both, because when the nervous system is sending “danger will Robinson” signals, it can be legitimately tied to a fear that needs to be addressed but is not necessarily handled correctly. I used to get these signals when B would not contact me for days and I would think he was out chatting up other women…..now, the legitimate concern was that I never felt he was all in….I felt he had 1 foot in and 1 foot out….but that would get overshadowed by a more pressing fear of being abandoned and wanting to ensure that was not happening….thus reaching out and asking if things are ok. There is an immediate need to get the nervous system to calm down….but the stressor does not have to be the relationship….it can be work, it can be family etc. It is very easy for someone whose nervous system doesn’t go into overdrive to read it as too much talking or texting or calling…and the person looking for reassurance feels that as well….so the request for reassurance often has this “I am bugging this person” low self esteem reaction as well. Does that help? I am experiencing this need for reassurance from a really good friend….she is exactly where I was at….her nervous system goes into hyper drive often….and she will want to talk to me in order to get reassurance that she made the right decision or that she is correctly angry about something. The other night, she did not like the attitude of a sales lady in a store but wanted to buy a coat. So I worked with the sales lady. My friend apologized to me afterwards and thanked me for listening to her. Through her, I see decades of my own nervous system in overdrive…and I know she just has to talk her way through it and once she gets to the other side and her nervous system regulated again…she is so much fun to be with. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2021 10:21:11 GMT
Thank you, alexandra and anne12 . I am unclear on what the "need for reassurance" means when I read about it, here and other places. Like in articles that describe ambivalent /AP , in the general sense. So are there actual verbal requests for reassurance that the partner loves them? For example asking in earnest "Do you love me? Do you want to be with me?" Or are manifestations of this more covert like being insecure about themselves, but not letting on about that and just secretly wondering if the partner will leave? I guess I'm just looking for what the dialog would look like on the anxious end, if that makes sense. Is it needing too much conversation about a stressor going on? Is that anxious, needing to talk about something they are facing (which seems healthy to me ) but to the point that a partner feels overwhelmed by it? Is that also considered a need for reassurance? Or is it more about being reassured about the relationship itself? It can feel like both, because when the nervous system is sending “danger will Robinson” signals, it can be legitimately tied to a fear that needs to be addressed but is not necessarily handled correctly. I used to get these signals when B would not contact me for days and I would think he was out chatting up other women…..now, the legitimate concern was that I never felt he was all in….I felt he had 1 foot in and 1 foot out….but that would get overshadowed by a more pressing fear of being abandoned and wanting to ensure that was not happening….thus reaching out and asking if things are ok. There is an immediate need to get the nervous system to calm down….but the stressor does not have to be the relationship….it can be work, it can be family etc. It is very easy for someone whose nervous system doesn’t go into overdrive to read it as too much talking or texting or calling…and the person looking for reassurance feels that as well….so the request for reassurance often has this “I am bugging this person” low self esteem reaction as well. Does that help? I am experiencing this need for reassurance from a really good friend….she is exactly where I was at….her nervous system goes into hyper drive often….and she will want to talk to me in order to get reassurance that she made the right decision or that she is correctly angry about something. The other night, she did not like the attitude of a sales lady in a store but wanted to buy a coat. So I worked with the sales lady. My friend apologized to me afterwards and thanked me for listening to her. Through her, I see decades of my own nervous system in overdrive…and I know she just has to talk her way through it and once she gets to the other side and her nervous system regulated again…she is so much fun to be with. Yes, this makes it much more clear! Now I'm seeing what is meant by "AP doesn't trust him/herself. " So it can be about any topic, the anxiety- not just the relationship. I was not clear on that. It's normal and healthy to talk about things one is struggling with but it's the degree and need for help that makes it problematic it sounds like. And how the partner or friend reacts is going to be down to where they are at. I can relate to this too, I suppose. I have needed to talk to my SO about hormonal changes that are very challenging, and also this HSP discovery and all it means to me, to a degree that he's probably not comfortable with. That might be a woman/man thing too. I notice that other women and the new HSP friends I have made actually need to talk about it too, so I am going to shift away from talking about those things within the relationship. The discussions inside the relationship aren't what I need, probably because those two issues have created stress for us both. I'm not sure it's down to anxious/avoidant tendencies as down to woman/man HSP/non HSP disparity. As I have discovered more about this HSP I need to talk about it because it impacts me a lot and I am needing to explore the positives, as I've had shame about it. So maybe that is needing reassurance. But I feel that I trust myself to know what I need. I don't think my SO can provide the support I need to the degree I would like but my response to that will be to not turn to him for it, I'm more inclined to get support from the other sources I've mentioned- female friends. That need is mutual among us so doesn't burden anyone!  But I think I get what you are saying- the anxious isn't merely venting or processing they need the other person to validate them because they are unsure of themselves and whether or not they are doing/feeling the right or acceptable thing? Is that the key difference between healthy sharing and anxious sharing? |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 20, 2021 14:18:23 GMT
Anxious "sharing" goes in circles and is unproductive because they are too triggered to communicate properly. The nervous system is flooded, and they need to soothe it before a truly productive conversation can happen. So then they seek reassurance the relationship is okay and you're not leaving while they calm down out of an overstimulated state. They're also in protection and survival mode so both disconnect from their needs and the actual issues in the moment and see things out of fear, so they're most interested in saying the right thing to get you to indicate you're not abandoning them because they are too scared that their needs will push you away due to conditioning. So they'll either not say what they mean out of fear or they can't explain them because they're not used to getting their needs met and are disconnected from them as a result. This also is related to the overcoupling thread I often link to, where things are projection from the past but seem to be in the moment when the AP is triggered in this way. They have no idea what they believe is wrong in the moment in front of them isn't what's actually wrong. I had zero ability to communicate any of this until I got way more secure, and especially not in those triggered moments. tnr9 is right that the default anxious is to worry a partner is one foot in and one foot out. So if the problem in the moment is the relationship, they seek assurance you're sticking around. If the problem is a different life stressor that gets projected on you, they want support in knowing you'll stick around even though they're stressed and not at their best because they worry if they're not perfect they'll be abandoned. Like I said, it's all a core fear of abandonment. You don't want to be enabling if they're constantly validation-seeking without doing the heavy lifting work they need to do to stop abandoning themselves and confront their insecurity issues. But if they ARE in earnest doing that, a hug and reassurance you care about them and aren't going anywhere can help them calm down and be more rational and less in self-protection freak out mode. If they're truly making their own progress, these triggered episodes of need for validation will decrease. But trying to have a productive relationship conversation at these times is as useless as trying to do it with an avoidant who is in a deactivated triggered state. The AP is NOT emotionally processing at these times and is basically unable to. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2021 14:34:47 GMT
Anxious "sharing" goes in circles and is unproductive because they are too triggered to communicate properly. The nervous system is flooded, and they need to soothe it before a truly productive conversation can happen. So then they seek reassurance the relationship is okay and you're not leaving while they calm down out of an overstimulated state. They're also in protection and survival mode so both disconnect from their needs and the actual issues in the moment and see things out of fear, so they're most interested in saying the right thing to get you to indicate you're not abandoning them because they are too scared that their needs will push you away due to conditioning. So they'll either not say what they mean out of fear or they can't explain them because they're not used to getting their needs met and are disconnected from them as a result. This also is related to the overcoupling thread I often link to, where things are projection from the past but seem to be in the moment when the AP is triggered in this way. They have no idea what they believe is wrong in the moment in front of them isn't what's actually wrong. I had zero ability to communicate any of this until I got way more secure, and especially not in those triggered moments. tnr9 is right that the default anxious is to worry a partner is one foot in and one foot out. So if the problem in the moment is the relationship, they seek assurance you're sticking around. If the problem is a different life stressor that gets projected on you, they want support in knowing you'll stick around even though they're stressed and not at their best because they worry if they're not perfect they'll be abandoned. Like I said, it's all a core fear of abandonment. You don't want to be enabling if they're constantly validation-seeking without doing the heavy lifting work they need to do to stop abandoning themselves and confront their insecurity issues. But if they ARE in earnest doing that, a hug and reassurance you care about them and aren't going anywhere can help them calm down and be more rational and less in self-protection freak out mode. If they're truly making their own progress, these triggered episodes of need for validation will decrease. But trying to have a productive relationship conversation at these times is as useless as trying to do it with an avoidant who is in a deactivated triggered state. The AP is NOT emotionally processing at these times and is basically unable to. This is helpful also, thank you. When someone who is in this state feels criticized or that the relationship is threatened, could they also engage in shifting that to anger? So instead of saying they are afraid they are going to be abandoned, would they potentially become very abandoning in their own behaviors? I ask because as I'm reading about it it doesn't seem to be just seeking validation type of behaviors, aggression seems to take over at some point, which would make sense if this is a fight or flight response? |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 20, 2021 15:03:21 GMT
When someone who is in this state feels criticized or that the relationship is threatened, could they also engage in shifting that to anger? So instead of saying they are afraid they are going to be abandoned, would they potentially become very abandoning in their own behaviors? I ask because as I'm reading about it it doesn't seem to be just seeking validation type of behaviors, aggression seems to take over at some point, which would make sense if this is a fight or flight response? This depends on the personality of the person. Yes, they'll likely get defensive. But anger totally depends. I wouldn't ever get angry or aggressive, but my conversational circularness could be very overbearing because I wasn't communicating my actual needs and my stamina to keep it up was endless. Also, a lot of AP are uncomfortable with anger and may not even be able to feel it / they can only feel it if directed at themselves (which is a reason they get stuck on emotional processing and can't get through the stages of it). It is fight or flight, though, so some may get defensive through anger and others may say the opposite of what they want as a test (I'll protect myself by distancing and abandoning you first IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, no wait, I thought you'd reassure me). You can look up AP "protest behavior" to see the range of responses. |
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Post by annieb on Jun 20, 2021 15:25:30 GMT
Anxious "sharing" goes in circles and is unproductive because they are too triggered to communicate properly. The nervous system is flooded, and they need to soothe it before a truly productive conversation can happen. So then they seek reassurance the relationship is okay and you're not leaving while they calm down out of an overstimulated state. They're also in protection and survival mode so both disconnect from their needs and the actual issues in the moment and see things out of fear, so they're most interested in saying the right thing to get you to indicate you're not abandoning them because they are too scared that their needs will push you away due to conditioning. So they'll either not say what they mean out of fear or they can't explain them because they're not used to getting their needs met and are disconnected from them as a result. This also is related to the overcoupling thread I often link to, where things are projection from the past but seem to be in the moment when the AP is triggered in this way. They have no idea what they believe is wrong in the moment in front of them isn't what's actually wrong. I had zero ability to communicate any of this until I got way more secure, and especially not in those triggered moments. tnr9 is right that the default anxious is to worry a partner is one foot in and one foot out. So if the problem in the moment is the relationship, they seek assurance you're sticking around. If the problem is a different life stressor that gets projected on you, they want support in knowing you'll stick around even though they're stressed and not at their best because they worry if they're not perfect they'll be abandoned. Like I said, it's all a core fear of abandonment. You don't want to be enabling if they're constantly validation-seeking without doing the heavy lifting work they need to do to stop abandoning themselves and confront their insecurity issues. But if they ARE in earnest doing that, a hug and reassurance you care about them and aren't going anywhere can help them calm down and be more rational and less in self-protection freak out mode. If they're truly making their own progress, these triggered episodes of need for validation will decrease. But trying to have a productive relationship conversation at these times is as useless as trying to do it with an avoidant who is in a deactivated triggered state. The AP is NOT emotionally processing at these times and is basically unable to. This is helpful also, thank you. When someone who is in this state feels criticized or that the relationship is threatened, could they also engage in shifting that to anger? So instead of saying they are afraid they are going to be abandoned, would they potentially become very abandoning in their own behaviors? I ask because as I'm reading about it it doesn't seem to be just seeking validation type of behaviors, aggression seems to take over at some point, which would make sense if this is a fight or flight response? When I’ve asked avoidants (dismissive avoidants by my assessment) about how they felt in those moments (a threat of abandonment, which was usually pertaining to some sort of a conflict), they said often felt anger and the option were to either lash out or retreat. Hence the avoidance. FAs or APs would potentially turn anger inwards like Alexandra says, causing depression. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 20, 2021 17:05:39 GMT
Anxious "sharing" goes in circles and is unproductive because they are too triggered to communicate properly. The nervous system is flooded, and they need to soothe it before a truly productive conversation can happen. So then they seek reassurance the relationship is okay and you're not leaving while they calm down out of an overstimulated state. They're also in protection and survival mode so both disconnect from their needs and the actual issues in the moment and see things out of fear, so they're most interested in saying the right thing to get you to indicate you're not abandoning them because they are too scared that their needs will push you away due to conditioning. So they'll either not say what they mean out of fear or they can't explain them because they're not used to getting their needs met and are disconnected from them as a result. This also is related to the overcoupling thread I often link to, where things are projection from the past but seem to be in the moment when the AP is triggered in this way. They have no idea what they believe is wrong in the moment in front of them isn't what's actually wrong. I had zero ability to communicate any of this until I got way more secure, and especially not in those triggered moments. tnr9 is right that the default anxious is to worry a partner is one foot in and one foot out. So if the problem in the moment is the relationship, they seek assurance you're sticking around. If the problem is a different life stressor that gets projected on you, they want support in knowing you'll stick around even though they're stressed and not at their best because they worry if they're not perfect they'll be abandoned. Like I said, it's all a core fear of abandonment. You don't want to be enabling if they're constantly validation-seeking without doing the heavy lifting work they need to do to stop abandoning themselves and confront their insecurity issues. But if they ARE in earnest doing that, a hug and reassurance you care about them and aren't going anywhere can help them calm down and be more rational and less in self-protection freak out mode. If they're truly making their own progress, these triggered episodes of need for validation will decrease. But trying to have a productive relationship conversation at these times is as useless as trying to do it with an avoidant who is in a deactivated triggered state. The AP is NOT emotionally processing at these times and is basically unable to. This is helpful also, thank you. When someone who is in this state feels criticized or that the relationship is threatened, could they also engage in shifting that to anger? So instead of saying they are afraid they are going to be abandoned, would they potentially become very abandoning in their own behaviors? I ask because as I'm reading about it it doesn't seem to be just seeking validation type of behaviors, aggression seems to take over at some point, which would make sense if this is a fight or flight response? So….there were times that I had a really emotional and triggering experience outside of the relationship (this especially happened when I had interacted with my mom) where I would get a bit gruff ( not angry, anger was reserved for drivers on the road who were driving too slow, not using a turn signal etc) with b. I called these ripples because they did not have anything to do with b but I was so stirred up I would project it forward. A lot of times I was tied to a sense of unrealistic expectations or obligations I felt from my mom. Anger has never felt ok to express with my mom and as such, I ever really learned how to properly express it in any situation. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2021 18:41:51 GMT
When someone who is in this state feels criticized or that the relationship is threatened, could they also engage in shifting that to anger? So instead of saying they are afraid they are going to be abandoned, would they potentially become very abandoning in their own behaviors? I ask because as I'm reading about it it doesn't seem to be just seeking validation type of behaviors, aggression seems to take over at some point, which would make sense if this is a fight or flight response? This depends on the personality of the person. Yes, they'll likely get defensive. But anger totally depends. I wouldn't ever get angry or aggressive, but my conversational circularness could be very overbearing because I wasn't communicating my actual needs and my stamina to keep it up was endless. Also, a lot of AP are uncomfortable with anger and may not even be able to feel it / they can only feel it if directed at themselves (which is a reason they get stuck on emotional processing and can't get through the stages of it). It is fight or flight, though, so some may get defensive through anger and others may say the opposite of what they want as a test (I'll protect myself by distancing and abandoning you first IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, no wait, I thought you'd reassure me). You can look up AP "protest behavior" to see the range of responses. Aha, this makes a lot of sense. I remember you trying to describe this to me on my original thread about this, but it wasn't sinking in so much. But this is very accurately describes what I see from my SO in conflict. It's very overwhelming, the circula conversation that is locked into a narrative that absolutely cannot be refuted nor altered with any attempts at communicating my perspective. And the stamina, it really seems unstoppable, coming from an intensely activated state. So, it's starting to make sense to me to see the two types of AP that are described i. the threads here- the imploding and exploding type. And, it seems some go more to hostile behavior as listed by Levine (I think?), some more to the fawning type of response. anne12 has provided a lot of information on the two types, sad vs angry as well. I also see how there is a lot of overlap between the different insecure styles. Both with withhold, but with a different flavor. Both may attack, but from different places on the surface (while underlying is a similar insecurity). And, I believe it's true we all have an assortment of insecure as well as secure strategies, it's down to where we are in growth, the situations, the interpersonal dynamics, etc. All of the responses in this thread have been extremely helpful, and I appreciate all of it. Even if I didn't respond to each post it's been giving me a clearer picture. I think it's helpful to understand these things in order to not take activating behaviors personally, while still being able to create the appropriate boundaries around them. Also, there are ways to provide assistance during anxious behavior that can at least demonstrate support and stability when it's needed. That is the very hard part for me, when my own insecure patterns are triggered. So awareness is beneficial so that I can try to make progress in the relationship that I am in, as well as being alert to various coping strategies in myself (I have a small alice of anxious in my insecure pie as well.) How confusing! Ha. Again thank you all for helping me understand my non-dominant style (nice way to think of it, I think- insecure is insecure and manifests different ways is all). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2021 18:50:46 GMT
alexandra, I got totally into retreat mode in that other thread because I had a) shared very personal information and b) got introduced to HSP that created a cascade of various reactions in me. So thanks for being patient to help me through it again! 😬😃
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