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Post by dullboat123 on Jul 30, 2021 5:15:01 GMT
Hello Dullboat123, I thought this too (Avoidant). I feel everything you said. I am not enjoying it, it was about establishing a life long partnership with them, one day they just switched it was so confusing. Regarding the drama as intimacy - this is interesting because I found when they are in a high stress state they come back or reach out. Once I have helped and they are not stressed they bail. Also aligning with that if I am in crisis and need help or genuine advice they block and bail, if they do give a reason it is usually blaming me for some (false or imagined) thing I did or they pick at random something from a past disagreement usually something small blown up to justify their leaving (An example would be they were 2 hours late for a dinner i booked, I cancelled it and they come to mine, when I ask where they were, I get accused of being controlling). I did call them out on it once and the response was "I am in my right not to want to see you or help you, you helped me, that was your choice, I didnt ask you too (but they did)". As for the power trip, again something that has come to mind recently When I get unblocked they dont reach out, I wait for weeks and months but I would eventually reach out (something i no longer do) they would then block me (why unblock in the first place) I think it is as you say a power trip or ego boost. Why is that??? Do you have any thoughts? I am now focusing on selfcare and working on healing. Hi HSP. OK what you described about your ex, is AVOIDANT 101. Their actions are so predictable that almost all of them displays the same symptoms and does the same shitty, not to mention mentally abusive things. And just as predictable, relationships with an avoidant is one of the least satisfying or fulfilling human experience ever. Please see the link on the signs of an avoidant/emotionally unavailable: psychcentral.com/blog/love-matters/2018/07/16-signs-of-an-avoidant-or-unavailable-partner#1My ex ticks 15 of the 16 traits. Judging from what you said, I'm sure your ex will tick most of the boxes. Bear in mind, its not you its them. You can look within yourself all you want but it will only make you feel worse because they are just people that treat people like shit. Remember, its 80% them and maybe 20% you. Not that avoidants are bad people per se, but interactions with them is either very surface or they will get passive aggressive when you try to develop anything deeper. So if you know people that says that your ex is a nice person, it is obvious that they do not know your ex at all that well. Avoidants CAN be narcissistic because of the selfishness and lack of empathy that they display. However what differentiates them with full blown narcissists is the grandiosity. Avoidants tend to remain low key and do not like drawing a lot of attention to themselves (hence avoidant). Which brings me to the point about the ego boost. They don't have grandiosity but that doesn't mean they don't have an ego. Look at it this way, they block and unblock you. How did you know? You checked right? Now, if you don't give a f**k anymore, you wouldn't know or even care whether they block you or not. Now, because they have done it so many times, they know exactly what you'll do. So all they do is wait. Bear in mind they don't give a shit about you or else they will reach out. So once you reach out, even after months, they'll go "Ahhh awesome. I still got this fella on the hook. I feel so attractive and pretty that I have some guy grovelling after my ass even after this long. But uggh, I don't want to talk to him.". **Block**. That itself is abusive. No one on this planet deserves that kind of abuse. you also mentioned that you're always there to help them but they will never stick their neck out for you? Yes. Again, that's avoidants 101. They are seldom loyal and will leave you when you need them the most. I experienced it myself. I fainted and fell down the stairs at home even though I'm ok. I told her via f**king text cause she'll never pick up my calls....all she said was "Of all nights, you have to pick the night that I'm unavailable. I can't leave my friend's place now sorry.". All because her friend adopted a f**king puppy and they're playing with the puppy. So pretty much, you or your life means nothing to them. Another incident, I challenged her that she never picks up her phone, what if there's an emergency? She said: "Well then you call an ambulance! I'm the wrong number to call isn't it?!".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 16:01:17 GMT
Hello Dullboat123, I thought this too (Avoidant). I feel everything you said. I am not enjoying it, it was about establishing a life long partnership with them, one day they just switched it was so confusing. Regarding the drama as intimacy - this is interesting because I found when they are in a high stress state they come back or reach out. Once I have helped and they are not stressed they bail. Also aligning with that if I am in crisis and need help or genuine advice they block and bail, if they do give a reason it is usually blaming me for some (false or imagined) thing I did or they pick at random something from a past disagreement usually something small blown up to justify their leaving (An example would be they were 2 hours late for a dinner i booked, I cancelled it and they come to mine, when I ask where they were, I get accused of being controlling). I did call them out on it once and the response was "I am in my right not to want to see you or help you, you helped me, that was your choice, I didnt ask you too (but they did)". As for the power trip, again something that has come to mind recently When I get unblocked they dont reach out, I wait for weeks and months but I would eventually reach out (something i no longer do) they would then block me (why unblock in the first place) I think it is as you say a power trip or ego boost. Why is that??? Do you have any thoughts? I am now focusing on selfcare and working on healing. Hi HSP. OK what you described about your ex, is AVOIDANT 101. Their actions are so predictable that almost all of them displays the same symptoms and does the same shitty, not to mention mentally abusive things. And just as predictable, relationships with an avoidant is one of the least satisfying or fulfilling human experience ever. Please see the link on the signs of an avoidant/emotionally unavailable: psychcentral.com/blog/love-matters/2018/07/16-signs-of-an-avoidant-or-unavailable-partner#1My ex ticks 15 of the 16 traits. Judging from what you said, I'm sure your ex will tick most of the boxes. Bear in mind, its not you its them. You can look within yourself all you want but it will only make you feel worse because they are just people that treat people like shit. Remember, its 80% them and maybe 20% you. Not that avoidants are bad people per se, but interactions with them is either very surface or they will get passive aggressive when you try to develop anything deeper. So if you know people that says that your ex is a nice person, it is obvious that they do not know your ex at all that well. Avoidants CAN be narcissistic because of the selfishness and lack of empathy that they display. However what differentiates them with full blown narcissists is the grandiosity. Avoidants tend to remain low key and do not like drawing a lot of attention to themselves (hence avoidant). Which brings me to the point about the ego boost. They don't have grandiosity but that doesn't mean they don't have an ego. Look at it this way, they block and unblock you. How did you know? You checked right? Now, if you don't give a f**k anymore, you wouldn't know or even care whether they block you or not. Now, because they have done it so many times, they know exactly what you'll do. So all they do is wait. Bear in mind they don't give a shit about you or else they will reach out. So once you reach out, even after months, they'll go "Ahhh awesome. I still got this fella on the hook. I feel so attractive and pretty that I have some guy grovelling after my ass even after this long. But uggh, I don't want to talk to him.". **Block**. That itself is abusive. No one on this planet deserves that kind of abuse. you also mentioned that you're always there to help them but they will never stick their neck out for you? Yes. Again, that's avoidants 101. They are seldom loyal and will leave you when you need them the most. I experienced it myself. I fainted and fell down the stairs at home even though I'm ok. I told her via f**king text cause she'll never pick up my calls....all she said was "Of all nights, you have to pick the night that I'm unavailable. I can't leave my friend's place now sorry.". All because her friend adopted a f**king puppy and they're playing with the puppy. So pretty much, you or your life means nothing to them. Another incident, I challenged her that she never picks up her phone, what if there's an emergency? She said: "Well then you call an ambulance! I'm the wrong number to call isn't it?!". Hi Dullboat123, I have looked at the link you provided, 13 out of 16 traits have been consistently present. You are right regarding the passive aggressiveness they exhibit. Also how others tend to not understand (close friends) because in reality from what I have experienced they were never that close, in fact the inner circle was limited to me and funnily enough their ex of which they constantly attempted to stay in touch with in a way I felt was toxic. Several times we would go out with groups of our friends and her ex would show up with his partner. I would ask why is he here, seemed bit odd, only to be told they were invited by my now ex. Who would be upset that he shows up with his new gf (I felt like a pawn in a toxic game sometimes). What is that about? I felt they were on a power trip and it backfired when their ex comes along with their new partner all happy and dis interested in them. I do find the blocking and unblocking emotionally abusive as I have made them aware of how it makes me feel, yet they do it anyway. I would prefer an actual conversation rather than being blocked or sent a text because it would allow for understanding and to heal what the issues are but they seem to do everything possible to avoid repairing an issue and hold on to them with everything they have. For example we have repaired (or so I have thought at the time) many times, but when they are ready to devalue and discard they bring up something from the past saying its still an issue when it isn’t. Or hasn’t been for years. It got to the point where I would say show me the proof and there never was any but then you get attacked for asking that too, their attempts to gaslight. You’re last paragraph about them not being there when you need them hit home hard. Everything said there has happened to me in one way or another. Which is still shocking because things were great for a couple of years then one day it just switched off, I literally felt like I woke up to someone else. Their whole personality changed to stone cold. There were glimpses of the old them over the past year but its as if they noticed and went Ice cold after. Leaving immediately each time and not talking for weeks or months. It was / felt odd, I felt because of their lack of control/power at home with their family, the built up resentment would be taken out on me and manifest in odd ways like they would poke me (figuratively) again and again trying to ruin date nights, special occasions just so they could release whatever they had built up. I would ask where did that come from as it was completely random. I would get “you know why, I don’t want to discuss it, I am leaving now, don’t call me” etc (an example each month we would book a weekend away to focus on us, they started to change, they would come out for the meal, then as we are leaving to catch the train, they would say I am going now see you on Monday and completely sabotage the trip no explanation nothing, then when we see each other later in the week and they act like nothing happened and when I ask to discuss they say I am guilt tripping them and they would leave). So hard to communicate with someone like this regardless if you're anxious or secure.
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Post by blacksnow2 on Jul 30, 2021 17:11:31 GMT
Hello blacksnow2 Thank you for sharing this. What made you do it to that one person in particular? (Just seeing if I may have done anything) Also do you feel its them or anything they do to cause this blocking and unblocking? The covert narc suggestion is interesting, I will read around this - thank you. Do you find that the closer someone is the more likely you are to push them away? Like for me it felt like because I was the closest anyone had ever got including family. I was in their inner circle which was me and them. They seemed later to be more comfortable with "friends" or what i would call acquaintances than their actual partner. They seemed to prefer superficial relationships over close ones, close meant vulnerability something they did not ever want to appear. It probably will not apply to your situation, but the person I did it to was also FA and triggered all kinds of things in me, both anxious and avoidant behaviors. When I would block, it was an extreme response to wanting to create distance between me and him but not knowing how to do it less reactively. Then I'd jump back to unblocking after my trigger had subsided and/or I felt a sense of abandonment and an urge to reattach. Rinse and repeat.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 18:46:49 GMT
Hello blacksnow2 Thank you for sharing this. What made you do it to that one person in particular? (Just seeing if I may have done anything) Also do you feel its them or anything they do to cause this blocking and unblocking? The covert narc suggestion is interesting, I will read around this - thank you. Do you find that the closer someone is the more likely you are to push them away? Like for me it felt like because I was the closest anyone had ever got including family. I was in their inner circle which was me and them. They seemed later to be more comfortable with "friends" or what i would call acquaintances than their actual partner. They seemed to prefer superficial relationships over close ones, close meant vulnerability something they did not ever want to appear. It probably will not apply to your situation, but the person I did it to was also FA and triggered all kinds of things in me, both anxious and avoidant behaviors. When I would block, it was an extreme response to wanting to create distance between me and him but not knowing how to do it less reactively. Then I'd jump back to unblocking after my trigger had subsided and/or I felt a sense of abandonment and an urge to reattach. Rinse and repeat. I appreciate you sharing. It is helping a lot! One thing I would ask, I find a lack of communication tends to be behind most things. Not having that chance to sit and ask is there anything I can do to avoid the blocking and unblocking. Blacksnow2 I wonder, your opinion being on the other side of things, was there something you wish your partner or ex partner would have done or not done to not make you want to block, unblock repeat etc. I thank you for sharing.
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Post by alexandra on Jul 30, 2021 19:17:28 GMT
was there something you wish your partner or ex partner would have done or not done to not make you want to block, unblock repeat etc. Please remember that while some behaviors are more triggering to those with insecure attachment than other behaviors, ultimately anyone with insecure attachment has a whole list of triggers that has nothing to do with other people (they can trigger themselves, they can be triggered by stress as they lack healthy coping mechanisms for stress, they can be triggered by perceived but unreal sleights due to misunderstanding, they can be triggered by feeling generally overwhelmed, the list goes on). Searching for reasons that the unblocking and blocking cycle is personal and has to do with you is futile if you're being consistent and respectful and just acting as you would with any human. It's a struggle for all insecure attachment styles to depersonalize the behaviors of others (which in this case applies to both of you), but it's very, very important because you're looking for a story to tell yourself that keeps you connected and involved in the issues of the other person. But that's just the story and assumptions you're telling yourself, when it probably doesn't matter what you do. Your ex's behavior would be happening regardless because it's tied to their issues and cycles and isn't caused by you. As blacksnow2 said in the thread to get over people, someone who acts like this is most likely not ready to face their issues, and is simply being reactive to something in the moment (it very well could be something else unrelated to you). That's not something you caused, that's not something you can do anything about, it's not even something you are actually directly involved in. All it is is a reflection of their mindset right now, and your ex's mindset is not one of clear or direct communication with you, so you should stop tracking their block status and focus on yourself. If your ex comes back wanting to have a real conversation in the future, then you can reassess if you want to participate in that.
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Post by annieb on Jul 30, 2021 19:38:51 GMT
I've gone through some of these blocking and unblocking events myself, and when I have done it it was from confusion in effort to self preserve and try to move on from a dating situationship. When people have done it to me, I believe it is the same. They've been ashamed of doing it, when I've asked, and I am ashamed having done it. I wouldn't take it as game playing, just know that the other person on the other end is struggling with their own issues.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 30, 2021 19:53:11 GMT
Hi HSP. OK what you described about your ex, is AVOIDANT 101. Their actions are so predictable that almost all of them displays the same symptoms and does the same shitty, not to mention mentally abusive things. And just as predictable, relationships with an avoidant is one of the least satisfying or fulfilling human experience ever. Please see the link on the signs of an avoidant/emotionally unavailable: psychcentral.com/blog/love-matters/2018/07/16-signs-of-an-avoidant-or-unavailable-partner#1My ex ticks 15 of the 16 traits. Judging from what you said, I'm sure your ex will tick most of the boxes. Bear in mind, its not you its them. You can look within yourself all you want but it will only make you feel worse because they are just people that treat people like shit. Remember, its 80% them and maybe 20% you. Not that avoidants are bad people per se, but interactions with them is either very surface or they will get passive aggressive when you try to develop anything deeper. So if you know people that says that your ex is a nice person, it is obvious that they do not know your ex at all that well. Avoidants CAN be narcissistic because of the selfishness and lack of empathy that they display. However what differentiates them with full blown narcissists is the grandiosity. Avoidants tend to remain low key and do not like drawing a lot of attention to themselves (hence avoidant). Which brings me to the point about the ego boost. They don't have grandiosity but that doesn't mean they don't have an ego. Look at it this way, they block and unblock you. How did you know? You checked right? Now, if you don't give a f**k anymore, you wouldn't know or even care whether they block you or not. Now, because they have done it so many times, they know exactly what you'll do. So all they do is wait. Bear in mind they don't give a shit about you or else they will reach out. So once you reach out, even after months, they'll go "Ahhh awesome. I still got this fella on the hook. I feel so attractive and pretty that I have some guy grovelling after my ass even after this long. But uggh, I don't want to talk to him.". **Block**. That itself is abusive. No one on this planet deserves that kind of abuse. you also mentioned that you're always there to help them but they will never stick their neck out for you? Yes. Again, that's avoidants 101. They are seldom loyal and will leave you when you need them the most. I experienced it myself. I fainted and fell down the stairs at home even though I'm ok. I told her via f**king text cause she'll never pick up my calls....all she said was "Of all nights, you have to pick the night that I'm unavailable. I can't leave my friend's place now sorry.". All because her friend adopted a f**king puppy and they're playing with the puppy. So pretty much, you or your life means nothing to them. Another incident, I challenged her that she never picks up her phone, what if there's an emergency? She said: "Well then you call an ambulance! I'm the wrong number to call isn't it?!". Hi Dullboat123, I have looked at the link you provided, 13 out of 16 traits have been consistently present. You are right regarding the passive aggressiveness they exhibit. Also how others tend to not understand (close friends) because in reality from what I have experienced they were never that close, in fact the inner circle was limited to me and funnily enough their ex of which they constantly attempted to stay in touch with in a way I felt was toxic. Several times we would go out with groups of our friends and her ex would show up with his partner. I would ask why is he here, seemed bit odd, only to be told they were invited by my now ex. Who would be upset that he shows up with his new gf (I felt like a pawn in a toxic game sometimes). What is that about? I felt they were on a power trip and it backfired when their ex comes along with their new partner all happy and dis interested in them. I do find the blocking and unblocking emotionally abusive as I have made them aware of how it makes me feel, yet they do it anyway. I would prefer an actual conversation rather than being blocked or sent a text because it would allow for understanding and to heal what the issues are but they seem to do everything possible to avoid repairing an issue and hold on to them with everything they have. For example we have repaired (or so I have thought at the time) many times, but when they are ready to devalue and discard they bring up something from the past saying its still an issue when it isn’t. Or hasn’t been for years. It got to the point where I would say show me the proof and there never was any but then you get attacked for asking that too, their attempts to gaslight. You’re last paragraph about them not being there when you need them hit home hard. Everything said there has happened to me in one way or another. Which is still shocking because things were great for a couple of years then one day it just switched off, I literally felt like I woke up to someone else. Their whole personality changed to stone cold. There were glimpses of the old them over the past year but its as if they noticed and went Ice cold after. Leaving immediately each time and not talking for weeks or months. It was / felt odd, I felt because of their lack of control/power at home with their family, the built up resentment would be taken out on me and manifest in odd ways like they would poke me (figuratively) again and again trying to ruin date nights, special occasions just so they could release whatever they had built up. I would ask where did that come from as it was completely random. I would get “you know why, I don’t want to discuss it, I am leaving now, don’t call me” etc (an example each month we would book a weekend away to focus on us, they started to change, they would come out for the meal, then as we are leaving to catch the train, they would say I am going now see you on Monday and completely sabotage the trip no explanation nothing, then when we see each other later in the week and they act like nothing happened and when I ask to discuss they say I am guilt tripping them and they would leave). So hard to communicate with someone like this regardless if you're anxious or secure. The thing is…you have control over your own reaction. Do not make this about the other person or you will lose the valuable opportunity to look at what you do have power an d control over…which is whether you choose to stay in contact. Checking boxes on another person’s actions and behaviors does nothing to change the dynamic and keeps you “stuck”…whereas, choosing how you are going to respond gives you “power”.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 1:18:11 GMT
Hi Dullboat123, I have looked at the link you provided, 13 out of 16 traits have been consistently present. You are right regarding the passive aggressiveness they exhibit. Also how others tend to not understand (close friends) because in reality from what I have experienced they were never that close, in fact the inner circle was limited to me and funnily enough their ex of which they constantly attempted to stay in touch with in a way I felt was toxic. Several times we would go out with groups of our friends and her ex would show up with his partner. I would ask why is he here, seemed bit odd, only to be told they were invited by my now ex. Who would be upset that he shows up with his new gf (I felt like a pawn in a toxic game sometimes). What is that about? I felt they were on a power trip and it backfired when their ex comes along with their new partner all happy and dis interested in them. I do find the blocking and unblocking emotionally abusive as I have made them aware of how it makes me feel, yet they do it anyway. I would prefer an actual conversation rather than being blocked or sent a text because it would allow for understanding and to heal what the issues are but they seem to do everything possible to avoid repairing an issue and hold on to them with everything they have. For example we have repaired (or so I have thought at the time) many times, but when they are ready to devalue and discard they bring up something from the past saying its still an issue when it isn’t. Or hasn’t been for years. It got to the point where I would say show me the proof and there never was any but then you get attacked for asking that too, their attempts to gaslight. You’re last paragraph about them not being there when you need them hit home hard. Everything said there has happened to me in one way or another. Which is still shocking because things were great for a couple of years then one day it just switched off, I literally felt like I woke up to someone else. Their whole personality changed to stone cold. There were glimpses of the old them over the past year but its as if they noticed and went Ice cold after. Leaving immediately each time and not talking for weeks or months. It was / felt odd, I felt because of their lack of control/power at home with their family, the built up resentment would be taken out on me and manifest in odd ways like they would poke me (figuratively) again and again trying to ruin date nights, special occasions just so they could release whatever they had built up. I would ask where did that come from as it was completely random. I would get “you know why, I don’t want to discuss it, I am leaving now, don’t call me” etc (an example each month we would book a weekend away to focus on us, they started to change, they would come out for the meal, then as we are leaving to catch the train, they would say I am going now see you on Monday and completely sabotage the trip no explanation nothing, then when we see each other later in the week and they act like nothing happened and when I ask to discuss they say I am guilt tripping them and they would leave). So hard to communicate with someone like this regardless if you're anxious or secure. The thing is…you have control over your own reaction. Do not make this about the other person or you will lose the valuable opportunity to look at what you do have power an d control over…which is whether you choose to stay in contact. Checking boxes on another person’s actions and behaviors does nothing to change the dynamic and keeps you “stuck”…whereas, choosing how you are going to respond gives you “power”. You are completely right, thank you. I think I am just wanting a nice answer wrapped up. I dont like the guessing, I think thats part of the "Trauma" (sorry if wrong word) This cycling back over the details has stolen so much of my time (daily). I try to shake it but I just want to know why. I am taking small steps to healing, as we said previous: Journaling, exercising, trying not to be on my own. But I do get the urge to go down a rabbit hole to understand them. I do struggle with the "control over…which is whether you choose to stay in contact." I dont have any means to contact now. I would love to stay in contact, I care for them, They are just making it impossible for me to do so. I cant help feeling they won, they played a game and it was not fair because I didn't know the rules. Once more I know they will come back at some point 6 months / 1 year...longer "when they feel low and need a boost" but I havent any idea what to do, we sync so quickly like we were never apart but I dont want this cycle happening again.
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Post by blacksnow2 on Jul 31, 2021 5:37:31 GMT
I appreciate you sharing. It is helping a lot! One thing I would ask, I find a lack of communication tends to be behind most things. Not having that chance to sit and ask is there anything I can do to avoid the blocking and unblocking. Blacksnow2 I wonder, your opinion being on the other side of things, was there something you wish your partner or ex partner would have done or not done to not make you want to block, unblock repeat etc. I thank you for sharing. Not what you want to hear, but no, there's nothing to do but sort of "deal with it" (i.e. let it pass and wait). In the moment I'm triggered, I believe whatever narrative is playing out in my head and you are the enemy of the story. My nervous system is activated. But the more the same trigger occurs, the less intense it is because I'm consciously trying to rewire my attachment and fix my behavior.
Also, FAs in general are unpredictable. You can't really pin them down and try to act in a way that brings about a certain outcome. They'll catch on, or get triggered in a new way, or start being totally different than what you thought.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 10:54:43 GMT
I appreciate you sharing. It is helping a lot! One thing I would ask, I find a lack of communication tends to be behind most things. Not having that chance to sit and ask is there anything I can do to avoid the blocking and unblocking. Blacksnow2 I wonder, your opinion being on the other side of things, was there something you wish your partner or ex partner would have done or not done to not make you want to block, unblock repeat etc. I thank you for sharing. Not what you want to hear, but no, there's nothing to do but sort of "deal with it" (i.e. let it pass and wait). In the moment I'm triggered, I believe whatever narrative is playing out in my head and you are the enemy of the story. My nervous system is activated. But the more the same trigger occurs, the less intense it is because I'm consciously trying to rewire my attachment and fix my behavior.
Also, FAs in general are unpredictable. You can't really pin them down and try to act in a way that brings about a certain outcome. They'll catch on, or get triggered in a new way, or start being totally different than what you thought.
Blacksnow2 It is what I want to hear, helpful and thank you. It's just an attempt to understand behaviours to avoid triggering not manipulate (important to know). It is sad because, regardless of attachment styles, generally in relationships we all make dispensations for our partners, learn them, likes dislikes etc, if they dont eat a certain type of food you avoid cooking it for them, learning one another. I am coming at attachment the same way learning from it so what ever relationship I have be it friend, family or partner I can make dispensations or approach talking about it the right way. My usual form of communicating is to just be direct. for exmaple: "we need to discuss what went on last night". But I am learning certain attachment styles "avoidant" or personalities "narcissistic" can not deal with this. The response is extremely unbalanced: long term relationship + wanting healthy communication = growth but with the above personality / attachment: long term relationship + having healthy communication = end of relationship.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 31, 2021 13:34:16 GMT
Not what you want to hear, but no, there's nothing to do but sort of "deal with it" (i.e. let it pass and wait). In the moment I'm triggered, I believe whatever narrative is playing out in my head and you are the enemy of the story. My nervous system is activated. But the more the same trigger occurs, the less intense it is because I'm consciously trying to rewire my attachment and fix my behavior.
Also, FAs in general are unpredictable. You can't really pin them down and try to act in a way that brings about a certain outcome. They'll catch on, or get triggered in a new way, or start being totally different than what you thought.
Blacksnow2 It is what I want to hear, helpful and thank you. It's just an attempt to understand behaviours to avoid triggering not manipulate (important to know). It is sad because, regardless of attachment styles, generally in relationships we all make dispensations for our partners, learn them, likes dislikes etc, if they dont eat a certain type of food you avoid cooking it for them, learning one another. I am coming at attachment the same way learning from it so what ever relationship I have be it friend, family or partner I can make dispensations or approach talking about it the right way. My usual form of communicating is to just be direct. for exmaple: "we need to discuss what went on last night". But I am learning certain attachment styles "avoidant" or personalities "narcissistic" can not deal with this. The response is extremely unbalanced: long term relationship + wanting healthy communication = growth but with the above personality / attachment: long term relationship + having healthy communication = end of relationship. I want to highlight that all insecurely attached individuals “avoid”….it isn’t strictly those with “avoidant” in the attachment style. Anxiously attached individuals avoid by trying to figure the partner out and “adjust” in a way that is not authentic with who that person is. Consider that for a moment….because anxiously attached people are not just adjusting what is cooked for a partner…but their own behavior/responses and expectations to try to fit into that partner’s life….and in doing so…the anxiously attached person is avoiding their own needs/wants/desires. And….since anxiously attached individuals are attracted to and often end up dating avoidants…then APs also are not good at relationships either. In other words…work on healing your own trauma and stop analyzing and then judging the trauma of this other person.
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Post by blacksnow2 on Jul 31, 2021 15:08:12 GMT
Blacksnow2 It is what I want to hear, helpful and thank you. It's just an attempt to understand behaviours to avoid triggering not manipulate (important to know). It is sad because, regardless of attachment styles, generally in relationships we all make dispensations for our partners, learn them, likes dislikes etc, if they dont eat a certain type of food you avoid cooking it for them, learning one another. I am coming at attachment the same way learning from it so what ever relationship I have be it friend, family or partner I can make dispensations or approach talking about it the right way. My usual form of communicating is to just be direct. for exmaple: "we need to discuss what went on last night". But I am learning certain attachment styles "avoidant" or personalities "narcissistic" can not deal with this. The response is extremely unbalanced: long term relationship + wanting healthy communication = growth but with the above personality / attachment: long term relationship + having healthy communication = end of relationship. I don't think it's a good idea to apply that to attachment styles if it means walking on eggshells and ignoring your own needs. What I've had more success in is owning my own feelings and expressing them without making others responsible for them or being accusatory. Sometimes I think I'm doing that but I soon realize that the 'emotional content' of what I said contains an implicit "you did this, make it better".
Even when I get it right, the person won't always respond in a nice way (especially if they have an insecure attachment style) and in those cases, you have to make a decision about whether you want to walk away or if it's something you can work with. Nothing is really foolproof when it comes to people/relationships. I'm trying to be okay with that rather than finding tiny ways to control another person in order to completely avoid pain and looking at myself.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 15:53:06 GMT
Blacksnow2 It is what I want to hear, helpful and thank you. It's just an attempt to understand behaviours to avoid triggering not manipulate (important to know). It is sad because, regardless of attachment styles, generally in relationships we all make dispensations for our partners, learn them, likes dislikes etc, if they dont eat a certain type of food you avoid cooking it for them, learning one another. I am coming at attachment the same way learning from it so what ever relationship I have be it friend, family or partner I can make dispensations or approach talking about it the right way. My usual form of communicating is to just be direct. for exmaple: "we need to discuss what went on last night". But I am learning certain attachment styles "avoidant" or personalities "narcissistic" can not deal with this. The response is extremely unbalanced: long term relationship + wanting healthy communication = growth but with the above personality / attachment: long term relationship + having healthy communication = end of relationship. I want to highlight that all insecurely attached individuals “avoid”….it isn’t strictly those with “avoidant” in the attachment style. Anxiously attached individuals avoid by trying to figure the partner out and “adjust” in a way that is not authentic with who that person is. Consider that for a moment….because anxiously attached people are not just adjusting what is cooked for a partner…but their own behavior/responses and expectations to try to fit into that partner’s life….and in doing so…the anxiously attached person is avoiding their own needs/wants/desires. And….since anxiously attached individuals are attracted to and often end up dating avoidants…then APs also are not good at relationships either. In other words…work on healing your own trauma and stop analyzing and then judging the trauma of this other person. Tnr9 you are right avoidance is what I am talking about regardless of attachment style. I was not meaning to target individual styles, sorry if it comes across that way. But this is the style I have had experience with so naturally it will be discussed. I do disagree regarding the comment on the cooking analogy, it was a generalisation of how we adapt to others not necessarily my ex person which is why i said "I am coming at attachment the same way learning from it so what ever relationship I have be it friend, family or partner". All people in relationships make adjustments and compromise. There is no perfect fitting into another persons life, John Gottman says compromise and communication is important for making a healthy relationships. I do agree with the AP avoiding their wants needs and desires to try and please their partner as later on this is what i started to do. I feel that I have been misunderstood in the next part. In order to heal I need to understand what it is that needs healing. Which lead me here, buying the books, counselling etc. In order for me to heal it does include talking about my experiences which I thought were welcomed on this forum?! I am not judging anyone, I am attempting to understand different povs as I lean toward AP I need to analyse my situation to understand that, as that situation involves others naturally in my case a potential avoidant or narcissist I have to investigate why I reacted that way with that person. Which does require discussing and trying to understand to heal and not to be judged for doing so. Jeb wrote and sold a book on it, I am just trying to understand my situation like so many on this forum, and asking questions to get different perspectives. If we had the answers we wouldn't be here.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 16:09:14 GMT
Blacksnow2 It is what I want to hear, helpful and thank you. It's just an attempt to understand behaviours to avoid triggering not manipulate (important to know). It is sad because, regardless of attachment styles, generally in relationships we all make dispensations for our partners, learn them, likes dislikes etc, if they dont eat a certain type of food you avoid cooking it for them, learning one another. I am coming at attachment the same way learning from it so what ever relationship I have be it friend, family or partner I can make dispensations or approach talking about it the right way. My usual form of communicating is to just be direct. for exmaple: "we need to discuss what went on last night". But I am learning certain attachment styles "avoidant" or personalities "narcissistic" can not deal with this. The response is extremely unbalanced: long term relationship + wanting healthy communication = growth but with the above personality / attachment: long term relationship + having healthy communication = end of relationship. I don't think it's a good idea to apply that to attachment styles if it means walking on eggshells and ignoring your own needs. What I've had more success in is owning my own feelings and expressing them without making others responsible for them or being accusatory. Sometimes I think I'm doing that but I soon realize that the 'emotional content' of what I said contains an implicit "you did this, make it better".
Even when I get it right, the person won't always respond in a nice way (especially if they have an insecure attachment style) and in those cases, you have to make a decision about whether you want to walk away or if it's something you can work with. Nothing is really foolproof when it comes to people/relationships. I'm trying to be okay with that rather than finding tiny ways to control another person in order to completely avoid pain and looking at myself.
Hi Blacksnow2 I am still learning, and I understand what you mean about walking on eggshells. When activated I lean toward AP in the sense of "Ignoring my own needs". The bit where you say "you have to make a decision about whether you want to walk away or if it's something you can work with" This is where I am struggling. I am getting better. I am in no contact, I am not reacting negatively to the blocking or unblocking just don't do anything and focusing on my healing and understanding which lead me here. I agree control is completely wrong. I would never and have never done that. I feel that my ex person was quite controlling, when we did sit and talk, I told them what causes me to activate and tbf to them they told me too. But they just decided to go full ahead on using what hurts me against me. Examples being blocking, ghosting, bread crumbing to name a few. The big one was projecting on to me. So I avoid doing any of those things now. If it helps anyone to know as an AP to other APs give space and plenty of it. Let the partner come to you in their own time, don't text, call, email give true space, it shows respect to the other person, but also establish healthy boundaries and as you said blacksnow2 don't walk on eggshells. It is hard, as any form of healthy boundaries are attacked and not respected usually.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 31, 2021 18:02:20 GMT
I want to highlight that all insecurely attached individuals “avoid”….it isn’t strictly those with “avoidant” in the attachment style. Anxiously attached individuals avoid by trying to figure the partner out and “adjust” in a way that is not authentic with who that person is. Consider that for a moment….because anxiously attached people are not just adjusting what is cooked for a partner…but their own behavior/responses and expectations to try to fit into that partner’s life….and in doing so…the anxiously attached person is avoiding their own needs/wants/desires. And….since anxiously attached individuals are attracted to and often end up dating avoidants…then APs also are not good at relationships either. In other words…work on healing your own trauma and stop analyzing and then judging the trauma of this other person. Tnr9 you are right avoidance is what I am talking about regardless of attachment style. I was not meaning to target individual styles, sorry if it comes across that way. But this is the style I have had experience with so naturally it will be discussed. I do disagree regarding the comment on the cooking analogy, it was a generalisation of how we adapt to others not necessarily my ex person which is why i said "I am coming at attachment the same way learning from it so what ever relationship I have be it friend, family or partner". All people in relationships make adjustments and compromise. There is no perfect fitting into another persons life, John Gottman says compromise and communication is important for making a healthy relationships. I do agree with the AP avoiding their wants needs and desires to try and please their partner as later on this is what i started to do. I feel that I have been misunderstood in the next part. In order to heal I need to understand what it is that needs healing. Which lead me here, buying the books, counselling etc. In order for me to heal it does include talking about my experiences which I thought were welcomed on this forum?! I am not judging anyone, I am attempting to understand different povs as I lean toward AP I need to analyse my situation to understand that, as that situation involves others naturally in my case a potential avoidant or narcissist I have to investigate why I reacted that way with that person. Which does require discussing and trying to understand to heal and not to be judged for doing so. Jeb wrote and sold a book on it, I am just trying to understand my situation like so many on this forum, and asking questions to get different perspectives. If we had the answers we wouldn't be here. There is a difference between compromise…where 2 people talk with each other and adjust in a partnership and what AP attached individuals do which is try to anticipate/adjust by gathering information through websites, articles, books and experiences in order to accommodate their partner. This is because as a child, an AP attached individual had to adjust to a parent’s perceived needs…and this has continued into adulthood and feels…”familiar/normalized”. But what happens…and this where you are going…is that the partner doesn’t ever “seem” 1.grateful for the adjusts 2. Willing to make adjustments the other way 3. Willing to talk about making mutual compromises…and this is entirely based on that person’s childhood and really is not about the relationship or you. And I get the “hey, I can make adjustments…why can’t the other person. “ line of questioning…and that goes more into how trauma was processed by that other person. What behaviors were learned that kept that person feeling safe and in control….just as your behaviors are meant to do the same thing. I am an AP leaning individual….so I have been down this road you are walking…..multiple times over with different avoidant partners. I have read every book, listened to a ton of podcasts, read tons of threads on Reddit….all in the hopes of understanding the guys I dated who broke up with me. I wanted to find that secret sauce of an avoidant that would tip the scales in my favor and result in the happily ever after that I craved. Unfortunately that did not happen. At the end of the day…trauma is trauma…how it impacts an individual is what causes the attachment wounds that lead to so many broken relationships. After decades of pretzeling myself…I am in therapy to get to know who I am. I want a partner who is able to compromise and I know that it will require someone else who is as committed to his journey towards healing as I am.
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