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Post by iz42 on Aug 10, 2021 4:01:45 GMT
iz42 , if the emotional connection is naturally there and growing, the desire for increasing intimacy will follow (even if you never get comfortable being touched all the time... as was said, you may have other love languages or different thresholds for what you each consider a comfortable amount of affection, and that's totally fine as long as you openly communicate). But it can definitely take a few months! I wasn't totally comfortable and all-in-decided how serious things would get long-term with my boyfriend for the first 3 months because I'd not spent enough time with him yet and because I'd never had a secure romantic relationship before. But I knew I liked him and found him generally attractive (even if we didn't have full on anxious-avoidant intensity), knew I didn't want to see anyone else, and he kept impressing me more and more with what an awesome (and consistent) person he is. About 5 months in, I was much more sure of my feelings and our foundation and the trust between us, as well as much more comfortable and appreciative of feeling happy, content, stable, and connected in a relationship -- and how much better and more sustainable that was than getting stuck in another stressful dance that I'm sooooo sick of. It's not immediate. But with the right person and right amount of compatibility, it will evolve organically if you give it some time. If you're continuing to want to spend time with him and seeing him and getting to know him, that's primarily what matters the first few months. Without the insecure sparks it's hard to gauge what the speed of comfort and connection should be because I'm assuming (from my own AP experience) that you're used to it happening in a RUSH when there's any chemistry [with avoidants], and add on to that the intense roller coaster of your last relationship being with an FA. If you're still feeling that way after a few months, and your physical connection is not growing either, at that point I'd reassess and it might be time to break up. That's why a lot of relationships get defined 3-6 months in: for insecure who are riding on physical chemistry, the honeymoon period is ending. For more secure, that's when they have collected enough information about the other person to decide if it's worth mutually deepening the commitment or not. But figuring this out is also what dating and not rushing head first into full, legal commitment is for! I think you're doing okay so far, you're listening to yourself, checking in with yourself, being aware of what you're feeling and connecting to yourself. Stay curious and give the guy a chance unless there are warning bells you can articulate. If you're feeling uneasy and coming off of having an insecure attachment style, trusting your gut and the uneasiness is absolutely worth paying attention to, but you need to parse out if the partnership is setting off the bells or if they're fear-based attachment issues still happening on your own side. Basically, I am a big believer in trusting your instincts, but part of overcoming insecure attachment is recognizing if you are overcoupling (ie projecting and confusing the message your body is sending you) and then connecting to yourself and sorting out what's really going on inside of you. This is so comforting alexandra !!! Thank you. I think I've been telling myself I should know by now how serious things will be etc. but we just don't know each other well enough yet. That ends up putting a lot of pressure on all our interactions, which isn't necessary. I have this idea that if we're good for each other everything will be perfect and I won't have any questions or doubts but it's just not realistic. I definitely want to give him a chance because he is the most stable guy I've met in a long time. I also don't want to jump into something without getting to know him first (as I've always done in the past). So the whole experience is just a little different. In any case, I'll think about love languages and that warrants a conversation, but I actually think he was nervous this weekend because it was my first time spending the night. He hadn't been that intensely affectionate before and I suspected it was coming from a place of nervousness. Everything is so new and we're both still adjusting.
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 10, 2021 23:30:51 GMT
Ah yes I understand now and that reminded me of my avoidant ex. My love language is touch and I like to touch her whereby she played that part for a while but after the mask comes off, she would be very stingy with her physical affection. I would tell her that I would love for her to touch me more, even putting her arms around me while watching TV. That would last 2 hours before she goes back to her cold, avoidant self again. I would touch her and hug her, only to be told off "I'm not your squishy toy". Together with her other distancing behaviours, those subliminally made me feel that I'm not good enough. IMO, hand around your waist or leg etc is the BARE MINIMUM of a loving relationship. Wanting space from simple things like that isn't normal and it would make people feel alienated. Perhaps one way of overcoming this and finding a happy middle ground is telling him don't touch you so often but you need to be proactive perhaps by giving him a peck on the cheeks here and there. Or even telling him you don't want to verbalise affection, you show it by tapping on his legs twice and smile at him to let him know. Whatever you both are comfortable with. Be creative! My avoidant ex also did this and I know how bad it feels. I am a very affectionate person in general and would never be cold with a partner. It’s not that I don’t want him to have his hand on my leg or my waist, it’s just that in that particular instance he never stopped touching me and it started to feel like too much. I need occasional breaks to be able to enjoy it. I didn’t push him away or even tell him I wanted space. I knew that would hurt his feelings. I think we are just getting to know each other and I’m realizing I need to have a balance between emotional and physical intimacy. If there is one and not the other, it feels off. Yes everything in moderation. I found one of the BIGGEST difference between secure and avoidants is COMMUNICATION. Avoidants can't communicate effectively to save their lives let alone their relationship. Another difference is the willingness to WORK THINGS THROUGH rather than running away from the issue like a 4 year old and hoping the issue goes away. So yes, its your body and you're within your Rights to uphold that boundary. So by all means talk to your partner and set a happy medium. Also be mindful enough to check in periodically to see if the boundary is still upheld and also check in with him to see whether he's happy. Just TALK! All the best!
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Post by iz42 on Oct 4, 2021 6:54:49 GMT
Wanted to post an update here. I'm just past the 3 month mark with my boyfriend and things are going very well. A lot of the wrinkles have been smoothed out and I no longer feel overwhelmed by his attention. I'm very attracted to him. Most of the early relationship jitters have been resolved and I have much less anxiety. I know it's early and we're still getting to know each other but we have built a pretty strong foundation of trust at this point. I'm sure there will be issues that arise but there are no major red flags. We share similar values and we are considerate of each other's needs. I feel that he is emotionally open and present with me. The relationship feels easy in a lot of ways -- I'm never left questioning his interest or wondering if he's going to suddenly disappear. We communicate well. He has been very consistent, and it's been mind blowing to experience this after the 6 year roller coaster with my FA ex. It's a huge relief and something that I never thought would be possible. I know it can be nice to hear these kinds of stories so I wanted to share.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 5, 2021 22:52:47 GMT
This is great news, iz42! I'm glad giving things more time made a difference. Early dating (first few months) always feels dicey with an insecure attachment style, or shifting away from having one. It's so easy to trigger yourself with the early unknowns. He sounded like a good guy so I'm happy for you it's continuing to go that way
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Post by iz42 on Oct 9, 2021 23:26:27 GMT
This is great news, iz42 ! I'm glad giving things more time made a difference. Early dating (first few months) always feels dicey with an insecure attachment style, or shifting away from having one. It's so easy to trigger yourself with the early unknowns. He sounded like a good guy so I'm happy for you it's continuing to go that way Thanks alexandra! It's been sort of surprising to notice my feelings for him grow. I've never had a relationship develop organically like this before without much projection and fantasy. I took Diane Poole Heller's test the other day and came out 81.5% secure, 18.5% ambivalent. So there is still some anxiety there but it's improving and I'm not sure it even makes sense to shoot for 100% secure. Honestly the main challenge has been letting him be nice to me. I'm so used to be the one going out of my way for my partner and not having my effort reciprocated... I find it difficult to let him do nice things. In fact, this seems to be a challenge for both of us lol. As far as problems go, I guess it's a good one to have. It's very different having someone in my life who cares about me and wants to show me that he cares. My ex was terrible at making me feel cared about, even though I know he did love me in his own way.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 10, 2021 3:45:03 GMT
iz42 That's really awesome!!!! No, it doesn't make sense to shoot for 100% secure, you're in a VERY good place. Over 60% seems to be pretty secure, I haven't really seen anyone scoring higher than the 80s even if they are solidly secure. No one is going to react perfectly to every obstacle or stressful time, you just need a solid foundation to handle things in a healthy way as they come. It sounds like you've taken great strides in getting there (FWIW, I've gone up in security another 8% since I started dating my boyfriend, with my remaining AP piece cut in half, so there will likely continue to be some natural progression, but I'm so glad things are working out for you so far!)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2021 4:42:51 GMT
iz42 That's really awesome!!!! No, it doesn't make sense to shoot for 100% secure, you're in a VERY good place. Over 60% seems to be pretty secure, I haven't really seen anyone scoring higher than the 80s even if they are solidly secure. No one is going to react perfectly to every obstacle or stressful time, you just need a solid foundation to handle things in a healthy way as they come. It sounds like you've taken great strides in getting there (FWIW, I've gone up in security another 8% since I started dating my boyfriend, with my remaining AP piece cut in half, so there will likely continue to be some natural progression, but I'm so glad things are working out for you so far!) Congratulations you two! I should "test" too! 😃😬
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Post by anne12 on Oct 10, 2021 5:43:03 GMT
Ladies, how do you practise getting into recieving mode ? iz42 , alexandra ,
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Post by alexandra on Oct 10, 2021 6:47:26 GMT
It's a good question. I think, similar to where iz42 is going with this, it takes time and building trust and experiencing the give and take going well for me to be receiving of anything that isn't something trivial. Which means if the receiving seems appropriate relative to the connection, receiving it feels okay and natural and doesn't require getting into a mindset for it. It's more about if I feel uncomfortable receiving, it's a warning flag. So early in a dating situation for example, someone trying to give too much, maybe because they are fawning or idealizing or lacking boundaries, feels uncomfortable and I may not be accepting of receiving. But I think that's good because it is my gut telling me it's too soon relative to whatever our relationship is and to honor my boundaries. This is in contrast to when I was AP and receiving was almost always uncomfortable, but it was more often due to my younger experience with receiving having strings or emotional guilt attached that I was unconsciously projecting not because there was an issue with the person giving. Now that I can discern the difference, if it's me or if it's them, trust is all that's needed to be in a good mindset to receive.
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Post by iz42 on Oct 10, 2021 17:41:20 GMT
Ladies, how do you practise getting into recieving mode ? iz42 , alexandra , I think for me it feels vulnerable because it means I am opening myself up to someone possibly disappointing me. I learned with my ex not to have any expectations about the relationship being reciprocal and that felt safer... because I never got my hopes up and I never had to worry about feeling bad that he was going out of his way for me. Having a more reciprocal relationship means I have to actually be vulnerable about what I want and let him do his best to meet my needs. This feels surprisingly scary. My ex could not meet my emotional needs and I got comfortable with having very low expectations. For me it is a process of learning to trust someone and be willing to let him show me that he is worthy of that trust. I also just have a hangup about inconveniencing other people and feeling like a burden that I'm having to work through on my own.
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Post by iz42 on Nov 20, 2021 21:31:29 GMT
Ladies, how do you practise getting into recieving mode ? iz42 , alexandra , I think for me it feels vulnerable because it means I am opening myself up to someone possibly disappointing me. I learned with my ex not to have any expectations about the relationship being reciprocal and that felt safer... because I never got my hopes up and I never had to worry about feeling bad that he was going out of his way for me. Having a more reciprocal relationship means I have to actually be vulnerable about what I want and let him do his best to meet my needs. This feels surprisingly scary. My ex could not meet my emotional needs and I got comfortable with having very low expectations. For me it is a process of learning to trust someone and be willing to let him show me that he is worthy of that trust. I also just have a hangup about inconveniencing other people and feeling like a burden that I'm having to work through on my own. Returning to this post because I'm still struggling with allowing my relationship to be reciprocal. I want to do everything and minimize all stress in his life. My fear is that my needs will place an unfair burden on him. I've been able to voice my emotional needs for the most part, but I want to take them back and just say "nevermind" for fear that I'm asking too much. I've also been in the mindset that I have to do everything perfectly (communicate perfectly, address issues perfectly, be the perfect partner, etc.) or else the relationship won't work. I'm finding this to be very painful and I'm exhausting myself. It's clear that these are my own issues to work through and don't actually have much to do with him or the relationship. I'm still in therapy but I can tell it's going to be a process. Has anyone else struggled with this?
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Post by alexandra on Nov 21, 2021 7:32:15 GMT
iz42 Yes. Everything in your post is describing aspects of codependency, AP, or both. I felt like I had to do everything perfectly or I'd be left when I was dating avoidants, and usually I was right. They needed everything to be perfect because they couldn't handle true vulnerability, conflict, or feeling out of control of their own environment (which, in a healthy relationship, sometimes you are because you do need to be interdependent and balance someone else's needs). In those case the problematic feelings were on both sides. And you're right, it is exhausting. I think it's really good that you're identifying all your feelings and also the fact that they're not coming from him. I'm assuming he's not doing anything to make you feel like you need to be perfect? Not triggering you to walk on eggshells? AP is all about wanting to overfunction for the partner while ignoring your own needs. Codependency is wanting to do and fix everything for the other person, not exactly knowing where the boundary is where you end and they begin, and anticipating their needs with hypersensitivity even if they haven't asked or indicated they want you to do or help them with anything. My inkling is you're functioning from a very old script with this dynamic from earlier in your life that you need to rewire. Which starts with getting a stronger sense of your own boundaries and accepting that it's okay for you to have needs (even better that you're already practicing communicating those needs), and includes the exercise you're doing now of identifying your feelings and dividing them up into what's a you issue, what's a him issue, and what's a relationship (your dynamics interacting together) issue. There's also an aspect of learning that it's okay to make mistakes in life, and that's even how you learn. There's a definite fear of failure embedded in insecure attachment styles, and I think for anxious-leaning insecures, it comes out in shame, fear, and a perfectionism defense mechanism to try to protect against abandonment.
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Post by anne12 on Nov 21, 2021 7:59:32 GMT
You can try to talk to your inner child in a gentle Way (how Old is she ?) and ask her what is her purpose of being perfect ? Where can you feel her in your body ? Try to locate where you can feel her in your body ? Let her answer and not the adult you. (hint - she is proberly trying to protect you) Then you can tell her that is was very understandble in the past, what she is trying to do, but that it dosent work anymore. And that she is allowed to relax now, that you are the adult now, and it’s you who is in charge now. Then you can give her a hug and you can ask her to go out a play with her favorite toy or with her favorite friends. Or she can sit on you lab or she can stand befind you. And you (your inner devine grown up woman, your adult self) will take Care of your adult lovelife. Then notise how does it feel in your body now. ❤️ (you can be guided through this with an SE attatchment love therapist) Theres this advice from an attatchment therapist I helped a client moving from ambivalent attatchmentstyle into secure attatcment style. We also had to work with her inner devine feminine women. With the primal part of her brain. She went from being over-responsible to becoming queen in her own life. She was already feminine. But when she went into a relationship with a man, she took over-responsibility in the relationship, took a lot of the initiative ect. Her own mother had been a pleaser and had been over-responsible in relation to her father. Her mother took too much responsibility at home, with the kids, in the household ect., while her father had the freedom to concentrate on his work, go out with his male friends and go on guy trips and play sports. During the therapy sessions she came in contact with her inner little playfull feminine girl, she had been, when she was a child - and this among other things, changed her from being over resposible to being receptive, playfull, being able to rediate with her feminine energi in her daily life ect. jebkinnisonforum.com/post/40648/jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/3269/happy-inner-child-essence
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Post by anne12 on Nov 21, 2021 8:27:35 GMT
jebkinnisonforum.com/post/41677/You can do the “Open your heart exercise” 1) Do the taoist breast massage exercise youtu.be/OPfy1d5GhEo- it builds up oxytocin - it builds up your sensuality - it gives you more energy - your inner woman Will enjoy the massage - its a way to give love to yourself 2) Put a hand on your emotional heart. Close your eyes. Feel your heart. Notice how is it in your heart. Imagine that your inner woman helps you to draw White or golden light from above into your heart and let the light run though your heart and let it "wash" out the things/people in your heart, that you dont need anymore. As if you are taking a shower. Then Ask your heart: “Heart, what do you really wish/want ?” Pause “Heart, What are you afraid of ?” Pause “Heart, what do you love about me ?” Pause “Heart, what do you want me to do for you in the upcoming week ?” Pause Then after a while get back into the precent moment You can get help from your inner devine feminine woman now. You can ask her to show up infront of you or beside you and to show you a scenario when she (you) felt good, felt sensuel, was having fun, felt that she was in her own power ect. What does she show you? How does she stand? Maybe she is dancing ? What does she say to you ? How does it feel in your body ? (maybe you can see her, maybe you can sense her, maybe you can think of her - use what works best for you) Then let her blend/emerge into your body again. Notice where she enters into your body. How does it feel in your body now ? You can Call her for support whenever you want to now. (I use my inner devine feminine woman a lot - sometimes she is much wiser than me) There are more tips in the general discussion forum - (in the feminine/masculine woman thread and the open your heart thread) and of cource in the healing threads for ambivalent and desorganised attatched people. And in the reguleting tool thread in the Secure Forum. The yin breath is also a very good tool (and the yang breath when you need to be more assertive). (Layla Martin) Remember to get pleasure on a daily basis. Sometimes women needs time for themselves to give themselves daily pleasure before they are able to recieve. Do you as a woman remember to get out of your head and get down into the body on a daily basis ? To connect with the body and your emotions ? Do you remember to stop, feel your body and your heart? Most women want to do well in their lives, Being a good friend, being a good daughter, beeing a good co worker, being a good mother, being a good partner ect... But what could you do to recharge your batteries every day for at least 20 minutes? : When you walk, you get down into your body. Feel your legs. Take breaths: breahte in while counting to 4 and breathe out while counting to 4. Combine it with an ohm or an ahh sound. Make the sound 3 times. m.youtube.com/watch?v=QSAvPgqQ2L0 A then you are getting ready to get into recieving mode... How do you get into receiving mode? You have to get out of go, go, go, do, do do mode, out of your head. You need to open your senses and you need to allow yourself to do NOTHING!!! Tell yourself that right now you are allowed to receive. Let go, tune into your energy, ask yourself: What do I need right now ? Do you need to: Lie down, go for a walk, receive a hug, receive a loving message, take a bath, receive a massage, listen to music, lie in the grass and look up in the sky or.... You recharge in your parasympathetic nervous system. This is where you regenerate and disconnect. You do it when you are sleeping, but it is also important a few hours during a day. You could say that the parasympathetic nervous system is the recipient. Ask your body and your soul, what you need? "I as a woman am allowed to get nuture xxxx" Notise when you become agressive, when you cry, when you are getting grumpy, when you are lashing out ect? When you discover yourself, you can change strategy ... So that you can receive and feel your ❤️ jebkinnisonforum.com/post/37590/jebkinnisonforum.com/post/40662/
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Post by iz42 on Nov 21, 2021 17:22:38 GMT
iz42 Yes. Everything in your post is describing aspects of codependency, AP, or both. I felt like I had to do everything perfectly or I'd be left when I was dating avoidants, and usually I was right. They needed everything to be perfect because they couldn't handle true vulnerability, conflict, or feeling out of control of their own environment (which, in a healthy relationship, sometimes you are because you do need to be interdependent and balance someone else's needs). In those case the problematic feelings were on both sides. And you're right, it is exhausting. I think it's really good that you're identifying all your feelings and also the fact that they're not coming from him. I'm assuming he's not doing anything to make you feel like you need to be perfect? Not triggering you to walk on eggshells? AP is all about wanting to overfunction for the partner while ignoring your own needs. Codependency is wanting to do and fix everything for the other person, not exactly knowing where the boundary is where you end and they begin, and anticipating their needs with hypersensitivity even if they haven't asked or indicated they want you to do or help them with anything. My inkling is you're functioning from a very old script with this dynamic from earlier in your life that you need to rewire. Which starts with getting a stronger sense of your own boundaries and accepting that it's okay for you to have needs (even better that you're already practicing communicating those needs), and includes the exercise you're doing now of identifying your feelings and dividing them up into what's a you issue, what's a him issue, and what's a relationship (your dynamics interacting together) issue. There's also an aspect of learning that it's okay to make mistakes in life, and that's even how you learn. There's a definite fear of failure embedded in insecure attachment styles, and I think for anxious-leaning insecures, it comes out in shame, fear, and a perfectionism defense mechanism to try to protect against abandonment. I don’t think he’s doing anything to make me feel like I need to walk on eggshells. There are differences that have come to light and potential conflicts for us to work through so I think I’m feeling threatened by those. I can’t tell if any of this stuff will be a dealbreaker in the future. I know that at its core I’m dealing with a fear of abandonment. And it’s also behavior that I witnessed between my parents, as my mom was AP and my dad was emotionally abusive. My parents were terrible at modeling healthy conflict resolution so conflict makes me panic. It’s frustrating to me that even with all these years of work on myself I don’t seem to be making progress. I guess I haven’t really had a chance to practice being in a more reciprocal relationship before so it’s somewhat understandable that I’m still learning. it’s probably inevitable that some of this stuff would get triggered. My understanding is that codependency is a dynamic that usually happens when one partner is more unstable and the other becomes the caretaker/fixer, but my boyfriend isn’t unstable at all. So part of this is seeing that he can take care of himself and backing off. The hardest thing is for me to feel like a burden. That is a tape that replays over and over. It feels absolutely intolerable. And I had a very chaotic childhood so I think it comes from wanting to hold everything together when there was a lot of scary instability. I feel embarrassed that I’m still struggling with this stuff here. Thanks to you all for listening.
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