|
Post by amber on Aug 14, 2021 11:42:09 GMT
Well, after two years of working fairly heavily on my attachment issues and nervous system regulation, I find myself yet in another casual dynamic with a man over the last six months. About to officially end it as I’m realising it’s a dead end street. But wanting to post here to talk about how incredibly hard it is to repattern some of these entrenched issues! I started off seeing him as was wanting intimacy and closeness and due to lots of long lockdowns here it’s been hard to meet people in the usual way.I told myself I could handle it and not get attached but that was a bit of a lie lol.
After a few months feelings started settling in and and over time I found it so hard to walk away even though he explicitly stated from the start he did not want a committed relationship and just wanted someone to explore sexually with. I feel that I got caught up in wanting to spend time with him as he’s very articulate, authentic and genuine, and a unique communicator for a man. He seems secure yet doesn’t want a relationship as he’s admitted there’s some fears of losing himself and his independence/autonomy which happened in his last long term r/ship. Also he’s still caught up with a previous lover which is complex and messy. I think Im projecting some suppressed qualities od mine I see him in and possibly seeking validation from someone I’ve put on a pedestal
At the end of the day we aren’t aligned but it’s really shown me that I’m still repeating patterns and probably need to stay away from dating until I make some more internal changes.
Thanks for listening!
|
|
|
Post by anne12 on Aug 14, 2021 12:03:13 GMT
Hi amber You proberly know this already… But could it be because of the impact of oxytocin that you find it hard to leave Oxytocin makes women bond, when they are making love and they are touched on the breats and on the nipples. On the other hand mens testosteron can block the intake of oxytocin. “The impact of oxytocin: The effects of oxytocin are exacerbated by estrogen and minimized by testosterone. The bonding effect seems to last 2-3 weeks in women and 2-3 days in men. This could partly explain why younger women get more attached due to sex than younger men; and why post-menopausal women experience more freedom around sex while older men want regular sex to feel connected to their partners. It also explains why we see each other in a different light after orgasm (it’s orgasm that counts, with or without intercourse). Both men and women may want to consider the effects of oxytocin. Are you ready for that attachment, either by you or to you? Are you ready to abandon judgment?” verilymag.com/2016/05/oxytocin-sex-differences-women-hormones-bonding-sex-trustAs someone myself who is VERY sensitive to the impact of oxytocin I know, I simply cant have a casual sex thing with a man over a longer period of time …When I learned about the impact of oxytocin it helped me to understand myself better… Im also hsp so this can also have an impact jebkinnisonforum.com/post/42216/
|
|
|
Post by iz42 on Aug 14, 2021 19:30:20 GMT
Hi amber You proberly know this already… But could it be because of the impact of oxytocin that you find it hard to leave Oxytocin makes women bond, when they are making love and they are touched on the breats and on the nipples. On the other hand mens testosteron can block the intake of oxytocin. “The impact of oxytocin: The effects of oxytocin are exacerbated by estrogen and minimized by testosterone. The bonding effect seems to last 2-3 weeks in women and 2-3 days in men. This could partly explain why younger women get more attached due to sex than younger men; and why post-menopausal women experience more freedom around sex while older men want regular sex to feel connected to their partners. It also explains why we see each other in a different light after orgasm (it’s orgasm that counts, with or without intercourse). Both men and women may want to consider the effects of oxytocin. Are you ready for that attachment, either by you or to you? Are you ready to abandon judgment?” verilymag.com/2016/05/oxytocin-sex-differences-women-hormones-bonding-sex-trustAs someone myself who is VERY sensitive to the impact of oxytocin I know, I simply cant have a casual sex thing with a man over a longer period of time …When I learned about the impact of oxytocin it helped me to understand myself better… Im also hsp so this can also have an impact jebkinnisonforum.com/post/42216/I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I find the oxytocin thing interesting. As a woman I do notice it, but only after I already have strong feelings for someone (which for me usually takes time - a few months or more). If I'm having sex with someone that I don't have those feelings for, or someone who I don't feel physically compatible with, I don't have a hormonal response. I just feel neutral. Is this abnormal?
|
|
|
Post by iz42 on Aug 14, 2021 19:38:27 GMT
Well, after two years of working fairly heavily on my attachment issues and nervous system regulation, I find myself yet in another casual dynamic with a man over the last six months. About to officially end it as I’m realising it’s a dead end street. But wanting to post here to talk about how incredibly hard it is to repattern some of these entrenched issues! I started off seeing him as was wanting intimacy and closeness and due to lots of long lockdowns here it’s been hard to meet people in the usual way.I told myself I could handle it and not get attached but that was a bit of a lie lol. After a few months feelings started settling in and and over time I found it so hard to walk away even though he explicitly stated from the start he did not want a committed relationship and just wanted someone to explore sexually with. I feel that I got caught up in wanting to spend time with him as he’s very articulate, authentic and genuine, and a unique communicator for a man. He seems secure yet doesn’t want a relationship as he’s admitted there’s some fears of losing himself and his independence/autonomy which happened in his last long term r/ship. Also he’s still caught up with a previous lover which is complex and messy. I think Im projecting some suppressed qualities od mine I see him in and possibly seeking validation from someone I’ve put on a pedestal At the end of the day we aren’t aligned but it’s really shown me that I’m still repeating patterns and probably need to stay away from dating until I make some more internal changes. Thanks for listening! This sounds really tough. Realizing that you need to end it seems like progress in terms of knowing yourself and your needs though. I'm sure it's still hard, but you should give yourself credit for that. Without the work you've done on attachment and nervous system regulation, you likely wouldn't have the awareness that you're falling into these old patterns. In my own experience progress isn't linear and you can only take it one step at a time.
|
|
|
Post by anne12 on Aug 14, 2021 20:25:11 GMT
iz42 Would you keep on having sex with a person that you dont feel physically compatible with or who you dont like as a person over a longer period of time ? I know the impact of oxytocin in woman can also be the reason why it can be a good thing for women to wait having sex with a new date/partner until they know the person better, because the impact of oxytocin can make it more difficult to end something…e.g youbcan choose to wait up to 2-3 months, then theres a change that you know a little more about the person. The problem is of course, that if sex is really important to you, and you realise that you are not a fit when it comes to sex. Oxytocin can also make you get bonded to a person that you dont really like. My guess is that oxytocin can affect women in different ways depending on their age, hormones, attatchmentstyle, where you are in your menstrual cycle ect… Women are more risk taking, when they are ovaluating
|
|
|
Post by iz42 on Aug 14, 2021 20:56:21 GMT
anne12 Well this is probably unusual, but in the past I did have long term partners that I wasn't physically attracted to. I went into it thinking that they were nice and that I should prioritize that over physical intimacy. One I stayed with for over 2 years before i left. It's not that I didn't like him, but more that I didn't have romantic feelings for him. I never enjoyed the sex but I thought that shouldn't be my biggest priority. Maybe the lack of oxytocin was an important message that I should have paid attention to though.
|
|
|
Post by anne12 on Aug 14, 2021 21:44:14 GMT
iz42 A study from Zurich has shown that around 5 % dont produce oxytocin The level of oxytocin can also be affected by not getting enough nurishment in early childhood, too much stress in life ect. In relationships you have to actually do something to produce oxytocin… you can also get it from hugging ect
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Aug 15, 2021 0:19:25 GMT
anne12 Well this is probably unusual, but in the past I did have long term partners that I wasn't physically attracted to. I went into it thinking that they were nice and that I should prioritize that over physical intimacy. One I stayed with for over 2 years before i left. It's not that I didn't like him, but more that I didn't have romantic feelings for him. I never enjoyed the sex but I thought that shouldn't be my biggest priority. Maybe the lack of oxytocin was an important message that I should have paid attention to though. I must admit I am little confused as to why you were in a romantic relationship with this guy. Not in a judgemental way. Just in my never ending quest to try understand women, this thread piqued my interest. You weren't romantically interested in him as far as I read. So What was the attraction? is 'nice' enough to start/ sustain a relationship?
|
|
|
Post by iz42 on Aug 15, 2021 1:02:19 GMT
anne12 Well this is probably unusual, but in the past I did have long term partners that I wasn't physically attracted to. I went into it thinking that they were nice and that I should prioritize that over physical intimacy. One I stayed with for over 2 years before i left. It's not that I didn't like him, but more that I didn't have romantic feelings for him. I never enjoyed the sex but I thought that shouldn't be my biggest priority. Maybe the lack of oxytocin was an important message that I should have paid attention to though. I must admit I am little confused as to why you were in a romantic relationship with this guy. Not in a judgemental way. Just in my never ending quest to try understand women, this thread piqued my interest. You weren't romantically interested in him as far as I read. So What was the attraction? is 'nice' enough to start/ sustain a relationship? There was a lot of denial involved. I had learned not to trust my instincts in some ways due to how previous relationships had turned out. I think I was also very very lonely, so when someone 'nice' and seemingly emotionally available came along, I went with it. It felt good to be wanted. I'm pretty sure he was AP (and I was too at the time). I basically just let myself get swept up in his fantasy/infatuation with me. I convinced myself that it was the best relationship I'd ever been because it wasn't just based on sexual chemistry and "sparks." This was 7 years ago, but even now with potential partners I have a lot of trouble determining what amount of chemistry/attraction is appropriate vs. what amount is a red flag and a sign of insecure attachment being activated.
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Aug 15, 2021 16:29:05 GMT
I must admit I am little confused as to why you were in a romantic relationship with this guy. Not in a judgemental way. Just in my never ending quest to try understand women, this thread piqued my interest. You weren't romantically interested in him as far as I read. So What was the attraction? is 'nice' enough to start/ sustain a relationship? There was a lot of denial involved. I had learned not to trust my instincts in some ways due to how previous relationships had turned out. I think I was also very very lonely, so when someone 'nice' and seemingly emotionally available came along, I went with it. It felt good to be wanted. I'm pretty sure he was AP (and I was too at the time). I basically just let myself get swept up in his fantasy/infatuation with me. I convinced myself that it was the best relationship I'd ever been because it wasn't just based on sexual chemistry and "sparks." This was 7 years ago, but even now with potential partners I have a lot of trouble determining what amount of chemistry/attraction is appropriate vs. what amount is a red flag and a sign of insecure attachment being activated. Thankyou for your response. I wanted to tell you that I find myself really impressed with it. The way you are honest, transparent and insightful, without being defensive impresses me. I like that I can 'question' someone's actions from a place of genuine curiosity, without the person's ego putting them in hostile mode and perceiving it as an attack. To me that's the basis of increased understanding and better relating. I find this incredibly difficult with the women in my real life, many of whom are personality disordered. To me, what is simply being politely curious seems to result in a sort of righteous indignation response. Like.. "how dare he ask me that!! or question me!" etc. And the intensity of the response leaves me shocked and then I withdraw to my solitude. Your communication style and candour makes me want to genuinely listen to you and interact with you. It's like a breath of fresh air compared to much of my personal real life experience. Other women on this forum have been good and compassionate communicators with me too. So I'd like to take this time to thank them as well. Compliments aside, what you said also resonates with me a lot. I mistrust myself and others to a very high degree. I'd say it's probably my main barrier to a healthy relationship. It leaves you always unsure about a lot of things. I haven't dated in a couple of years. But very recently a woman I know has made it quiet clear she is romantically interested in me. And since then I find myself ruminating in all kinds of similar questions you probably do. Hyper vigilant for red flags, trying to look for signs of personality disorders or serious attachment trauma. Whilst trying to be aware of my own crap popping up. Questioning whether im attracted to her even though I would describe her as very attractive, And if I'm not, maybe that's a good thing?.....ad nausem.... I think for me, and perhaps you by the sound of it. Our behaviours are an over compensation to our trauma. And I'm also wanting to validate your thoughts and feelings by saying I'm having them too. Much like you were, I'm also very lonely. The drive to connect is a powerful thing. I'm estranged geographically from my family, and because of covid and the threats of my ex partner, I don't just mean 'out of a relationship' lonely. I mean I was genuinely isolated for quiet a while. It does strange things to your brain. I have theorized that loneliness perhaps causes atrophy in the parts responsible for healthy interactions. Mirror neurons, social circuitry etc. But I haven't looked into whether there's any actual research to prove this. Seems plausible though. Use it or lose it type scenario.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 15, 2021 17:14:53 GMT
Much like you were, I'm also very lonely. The drive to connect is a powerful thing. I'm estranged geographically from my family, and because of covid and the threats of my ex partner, I don't just mean 'out of a relationship' lonely. I mean I was genuinely isolated for quiet a while. It does strange things to your brain. I have theorized that loneliness perhaps causes atrophy in the parts responsible for healthy interactions. Mirror neurons, social circuitry etc. But I haven't looked into whether there's any actual research to prove this. Seems plausible though. Use it or lose it type scenario. I know this isn’t my thread…..but I wanted to chime in here if that is ok. I haven’t wanted to date because I have tended to bond super quick and dash over red flags etc. The last time I did this though (pull in and stop dating) I ended up being drawn to an NPD so I am beginning to think that my fear of repeating a pattern isn’t really helpful. How else am I to test new skills etc of not to be out there so to speak. krolle…there is a lot of research on how bad isolation is….not just mentally, but physically as well. Dr Gabor Mate says the worst 2 things for people are stress and loneliness. I have a friend who just joined a newish dating site and although she hasn’t found anyone…I applaud her being out there and actively looking. She has a very good grasp on herself and what she needs and does not settle for flakiness as she calls it. I think the most important thing is to both agree that you in an exploration phase…getting to know one and another and whether you would be good fits for each other. If she is not cool with that…if she wants to rush things along…that gives you some information about her attachment style. Also…perhaps you are cautious because you do not want to lose the friendship if you explore dating with her. I know that once I cross over from friendship to dating, I cannot go back as feelings will have moved to a different level. In any event….whatever direction you choose to go…I appreciate your insight as well. We have so few men here who are willing to open up the way you have.
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Aug 15, 2021 22:02:05 GMT
anne12 Well this is probably unusual, but in the past I did have long term partners that I wasn't physically attracted to. I went into it thinking that they were nice and that I should prioritize that over physical intimacy. One I stayed with for over 2 years before i left. It's not that I didn't like him, but more that I didn't have romantic feelings for him. I never enjoyed the sex but I thought that shouldn't be my biggest priority. Maybe the lack of oxytocin was an important message that I should have paid attention to though. 9 years for similar reasons. It turned out to be the most successful of any relationship I had. Until it didn’t.
|
|