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Post by john1234 on Aug 16, 2021 15:26:59 GMT
Hi John - I haven’t read all your posts, but I can feel your pain through your words and I’m so sorry. What stood out to me is how you’re brushing over some of your issues. First things first, you need to take care of yourself. Are you in AA or in addiction treatment or a rehab?. The other thing you mentioned. The annoyance, you might as well disclose it here so we can help you. For everyone who came here we came obsessed about the other person and our ego wrapped up in their validation (that they were not in a position to provide, no one is), and we ended up in some sort of a path of self love. I urge you to start on that path now. If you can see a therapist, see a therapist, if you have no resources, Google an article called 42 ways of improving yourself and start going down that list one by one. Somewhere around activity NR 6, you will have found new ways of soothing yourself. Notice I never mention your ex girlfriend, as she believe it or not has very little to do with all of this. You use her (or your brain rather) as a prop to steer the focus away from your self. I hope this is not harsh, as I know you’re all fresh to this and good luck to you! Hello annieb. Not harsh. Truth and I am looking for any help I can get. So thank you for even responding. My little annoyance well. It’s nicotine gum. I chew it like it’s going out of style. And it’s embarrassing. And she hates it. Of course she does. As the anxiety rises I chew more. I was a smoker and when my first daughter was born I quit with the aid of nicotine gum as my mother died young because of cancer. I did not want to do that to my daughter. I’ve been off and on it for a long time. Now the drinking. No I am not in AA as I have quit numerous times before on my own for years at a time. I will again. It’s not a problem. I had and an extremely toxic and abusive relationship with a woman with bpd and I went through a divorce and the drinking got out of control. It will be controlled. It is obviously much more difficult with the anxiety I am now putting myself through. The gum will be more difficult. Moving forward. I am speaking to a friend that’s a therapist but that is justly a conflict of interest so I will be making a call today for an appointment with a therapist today with a therapist. I am also speaking to a life coach. Once again thanks for the response and please don’t worry about being harsh. That’s one of the things I’m trying to learn is to not take things so seriously. See how didn’t talk about my ex either because she is not the problem I need to fix. I bring her up because the anxiety from I assume abandonment is strong with me.
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Post by annieb on Aug 16, 2021 15:58:10 GMT
Ah, thanks for responding! So the nicotine gum is another substance. It makes sense. Addiction is an attachment disorder. We’re all addicts here, some addicted to substances and some to other external things, such as avoidants. Our brain is doing the same loops and hoops whether it’s substance abuse or something else (reward cycle).
The most important part and kudos to you for getting a therapist, is don’t go it alone. If it were so effective to quit alcohol and nicotine on your own, you would have already done so. Try AA. You might be pleasantly surprised as to what a group of people can do for you. The sense of comradery and sharing. If you’ve never done it, I urge you to go to a meeting. Perhaps they have zoom meetings now, where you can remain completely annonymous, if shame and pride is an issue. I would look into that.
I have personally gone through great lengths in my life to avoid substance abuse and it would have been so much easier to delve into therapy at age 20 instead of age 35 - 39 like I did. I would have avoided so much pain I white knuckled through, and so much abuse and senseless abusive relationships I put myself through.
Sometimes I have to go through old emails with an ex husband because he was always messy with paperwork (of course, poor guy is an addict), and there are still a couple things that have to be fixed with the divorce paperwork, and I just weep for an hour remembering how I felt in that relationship and what it was like. (In one email he is describing kicking me in the stomach; and how he regrets it.)
I could have avoided this had I gone to therapy and all the money I sunk into fixing him, I could have bounced and fixed myself. Anything would have been better than these relationships. But at the time I couldn’t be alone. Now I can. From seeking validation outside of myself I was able to start seeking validation within. Unfortunately relationships and dating still trigger me and if I’m not careful I can end up in that same mindset, especially when I just start dating. So that might still be off the table for me. Now I understand why they don’t want people dating within a year of starting AA for example.
But just like you’ve reached out to us, and it’s a big step, reach out to AA, to therapist, group therapy, anything that’s available to you and keep busy working on you, because at this point no one can argue that you deserve it.
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Post by anne12 on Aug 16, 2021 17:28:14 GMT
annieb….an attatchment disorder ?
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Post by annieb on Aug 16, 2021 17:56:27 GMT
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Post by alexandra on Aug 16, 2021 18:24:53 GMT
Your fears and concerns about your ex are quite normal. Would a more secure guy showing up help her? Maybe, because he'd be less likely to trigger her, but probably not because insecure attachers are very skilled at also triggering themselves even when things are stable. So I don't think if she is talking about no commitment being easier for her that she'll be running into or attracting anyone secure right now. Like attracts like, usually levels of insecurity mirror each other, or else there's an imbalance (either the insecure will feel bored with a secure or the secure partner won't want to be with someone who shows inconsistent behavior). My personal experience was, this only changes as you start shifting on the spectrum. When I was textbook AP, I'd date extreme avoidants and potentially disordered people. As I got more secure, I might still date avoidants, but either they were less extreme or it would fizzle out after a few dates because it was mutually a bad match and certainly not what I was looking for. Those questions ultimately aren't going to matter if you focus on yourself, and they don't change or even answer anything here, but I understand why you're ruminating on them. It's quite normal at the beginning of all this. I also couldn't internalize secure concepts at first. I could recognize them intellectually but didn't feel them at all. It is a completely different set of thought patterns and a rewiring of your nervous system. krolle has also posted comments on some threads about security, doing the work, healthy relating that indicates he similarly sees it as in another language. My experience was, keep diving into the concepts, reading about it, immersing, start taking notice about your own patterns and where they fit in to your own attachment style and perhaps where they deviate from what sounds secure. I didn't feel like I was making any progress for the longest time. I had a friend who didn't know the extent of what I was going through or doing, but he told me trust the process. I didn't even know what the process was going to do. But I did feel in my gut the answers I needed were in there SOMEWHERE. It did take a long time (it typically takes 2+ years of concerted effort to earn security, though you may see bits of progress throughout), and I didn't know what I was looking for, but it eventually clicked. So I do encourage you to keep going... take small breaks as needed if you're getting overwhelmed, but trust the process truly was good advice. I worked through my own security first, as I continued to be attracted to emotionally unavailable people and was bored with / not attracted to secures, so that never worked for me. I also disagree with the advice that the best way to become secure is finding a secure partner. I think the best way to have a secure attachment relationship with a partner is to find a secure partner, but that does not change your overall attachment style or your relationships with others. The benefit is still that dating a person with secure attachment won't add additional triggering so gives you more space to work out your own issues separately plus models secure relating for you as an example, but I absolutely do not believe that dating a secure partner will magically change your attachment style. I strongly believe that only facing and healing your trauma at the same time as learning about how people relate to each other through attachment and what healthier relationship skills and dynamics look like will do that. Not everyone has to agree with that, but it's how it went for me. Plus, I have watched a couple people I'm very close to with insecure attachment styles have secure romantic relationships yet still struggle within themselves with their own issues, even if the relationship is good and long lasting and the issues are unrelated to romantic partner concerns. But since their relationships are okay, they don't feel the need to delve into the painful issues that still make them unhappy people. Bringing me to where annieb left off, because she was asking questions I also had. I think addiction stems from unaddressed trauma and attachment wounding and not having healthier coping mechanisms to deal with it, and then it rewires your brain and screws with your reward centers and balance, etc. Substance abuse is more complicated because there's an additional genetic and chemical component layer on top of that. But it is pretty common among people with attachment issues and other mental health difficulties. With substance abuse SPECIFICALLY, I think it's exceedingly difficult to get emotionally stable enough to delve into what you need to delve into while still drinking, emotionally dysregulating, and numbing (to avoid). I've watched some people try to do this, and even if they cut back to occasionally drinking but they're alcoholics, it just was throwing their mood off to make progress. So I am not a professional, but I would strongly advise that you get yourself a treatment plan to wean off alcohol first and be sober for a few weeks before you go full speed ahead on getting deep into your trauma. (Especially since confronting your trauma is likely to give you the urge to drink at first.) Yes, it's good to keep reading about attachment and absorbing information about healthy relationships and start planning therapy appointments at this time. But you have a lot of layers to get through, and addressing them all at once will be extremely challenging. Which I think is another reason AA says don't date for a year. You don't want to replace one addiction (alcohol) with another (co-dependency and love addiction), you want the space to focus solely on yourself when you're healing and not be tempted to distract yourself or overwhelm yourself taking on more responsibility for another person when you can't yet be healthy towards yourself, and there's a process to all this that you can't get done all at once. I also totally agree that you need help and support and shouldn't do this alone. AA doesn't work for everyone, but it's a good start. See how it goes, and if it's not for you there's still other groups and options. I do have a friend it's worked very, very well for, in spite of that friend not agreeing with all their methods (friend simply ignores anything with religious basis that comes up in those discussions, but takes away all the parts of the meetings that do work for them). And it's great you're going to start exploring therapy. That will be very important, though don't be put off if it takes meeting with more than one therapist to find a comfortable and good match for you. This is hard work. Be proud of yourself for starting to take action to take care of yourself.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 16, 2021 20:13:07 GMT
You may want to check out some YouTube videos about dr Gabor mate. I learned about him as I was trying to understand my now ex boyfriend’s addiction to alcohol and pot. Dr. Gabor mate absolutely believes that addiction is tied to trauma avoidance. I took some notes from a talk I watched recently but I cannot find them at the moment…but the jist is that addiction is something that provides us with a temporary feeling of pleasure, but has long term negative consequences and we struggle to let it go. And addiction has many forms from drugs and alcohol, shopping, working etc.
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Post by john1234 on Aug 16, 2021 23:57:25 GMT
Your fears and concerns about your ex are quite normal. Would a more secure guy showing up help her? Maybe, because he'd be less likely to trigger her, but probably not because insecure attachers are very skilled at also triggering themselves even when things are stable. So I don't think if she is talking about no commitment being easier for her that she'll be running into or attracting anyone secure right now. Like attracts like, usually levels of insecurity mirror each other, or else there's an imbalance (either the insecure will feel bored with a secure or the secure partner won't want to be with someone who shows inconsistent behavior). My personal experience was, this only changes as you start shifting on the spectrum. When I was textbook AP, I'd date extreme avoidants and potentially disordered people. As I got more secure, I might still date avoidants, but either they were less extreme or it would fizzle out after a few dates because it was mutually a bad match and certainly not what I was looking for. Those questions ultimately aren't going to matter if you focus on yourself, and they don't change or even answer anything here, but I understand why you're ruminating on them. It's quite normal at the beginning of all this. I also couldn't internalize secure concepts at first. I could recognize them intellectually but didn't feel them at all. It is a completely different set of thought patterns and a rewiring of your nervous system. krolle has also posted comments on some threads about security, doing the work, healthy relating that indicates he similarly sees it as in another language. My experience was, keep diving into the concepts, reading about it, immersing, start taking notice about your own patterns and where they fit in to your own attachment style and perhaps where they deviate from what sounds secure. I didn't feel like I was making any progress for the longest time. I had a friend who didn't know the extent of what I was going through or doing, but he told me trust the process. I didn't even know what the process was going to do. But I did feel in my gut the answers I needed were in there SOMEWHERE. It did take a long time (it typically takes 2+ years of concerted effort to earn security, though you may see bits of progress throughout), and I didn't know what I was looking for, but it eventually clicked. So I do encourage you to keep going... take small breaks as needed if you're getting overwhelmed, but trust the process truly was good advice. I worked through my own security first, as I continued to be attracted to emotionally unavailable people and was bored with / not attracted to secures, so that never worked for me. I also disagree with the advice that the best way to become secure is finding a secure partner. I think the best way to have a secure attachment relationship with a partner is to find a secure partner, but that does not change your overall attachment style or your relationships with others. The benefit is still that dating a person with secure attachment won't add additional triggering so gives you more space to work out your own issues separately plus models secure relating for you as an example, but I absolutely do not believe that dating a secure partner will magically change your attachment style. I strongly believe that only facing and healing your trauma at the same time as learning about how people relate to each other through attachment and what healthier relationship skills and dynamics look like will do that. Not everyone has to agree with that, but it's how it went for me. Plus, I have watched a couple people I'm very close to with insecure attachment styles have secure romantic relationships yet still struggle within themselves with their own issues, even if the relationship is good and long lasting and the issues are unrelated to romantic partner concerns. But since their relationships are okay, they don't feel the need to delve into the painful issues that still make them unhappy people. Bringing me to where annieb left off, because she was asking questions I also had. I think addiction stems from unaddressed trauma and attachment wounding and not having healthier coping mechanisms to deal with it, and then it rewires your brain and screws with your reward centers and balance, etc. Substance abuse is more complicated because there's an additional genetic and chemical component layer on top of that. But it is pretty common among people with attachment issues and other mental health difficulties. With substance abuse SPECIFICALLY, I think it's exceedingly difficult to get emotionally stable enough to delve into what you need to delve into while still drinking, emotionally dysregulating, and numbing (to avoid). I've watched some people try to do this, and even if they cut back to occasionally drinking but they're alcoholics, it just was throwing their mood off to make progress. So I am not a professional, but I would strongly advise that you get yourself a treatment plan to wean off alcohol first and be sober for a few weeks before you go full speed ahead on getting deep into your trauma. (Especially since confronting your trauma is likely to give you the urge to drink at first.) Yes, it's good to keep reading about attachment and absorbing information about healthy relationships and start planning therapy appointments at this time. But you have a lot of layers to get through, and addressing them all at once will be extremely challenging. Which I think is another reason AA says don't date for a year. You don't want to replace one addiction (alcohol) with another (co-dependency and love addiction), you want the space to focus solely on yourself when you're healing and not be tempted to distract yourself or overwhelm yourself taking on more responsibility for another person when you can't yet be healthy towards yourself, and there's a process to all this that you can't get done all at once. I also totally agree that you need help and support and shouldn't do this alone. AA doesn't work for everyone, but it's a good start. See how it goes, and if it's not for you there's still other groups and options. I do have a friend it's worked very, very well for, in spite of that friend not agreeing with all their methods (friend simply ignores anything with religious basis that comes up in those discussions, but takes away all the parts of the meetings that do work for them). And it's great you're going to start exploring therapy. That will be very important, though don't be put off if it takes meeting with more than one therapist to find a comfortable and good match for you. This is hard work. Be proud of yourself for starting to take action to take care of yourself. Thank you for all of the great insight. I know the drinking is the main issue I have and I have already weened myself off on my own. I will try the AA thing. I believe I am clear headed enough to immerse myself into all of the info online about becoming more secure. As I said I am very confused about it. I have also read on some sites that it is not even possible to change your style. The nicotine, I will be weening myself off of it, but That is gonna take some time and much more effort. Thank you again for taking the time for a perfect stranger. [/quote]
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Post by john1234 on Aug 16, 2021 23:58:07 GMT
You may want to check out some YouTube videos about dr Gabor mate. I learned about him as I was trying to understand my now ex boyfriend’s addiction to alcohol and pot. Dr. Gabor mate absolutely believes that addiction is tied to trauma avoidance. I took some notes from a talk I watched recently but I cannot find them at the moment…but the jist is that addiction is something that provides us with a temporary feeling of pleasure, but has long term negative consequences and we struggle to let it go. And addiction has many forms from drugs and alcohol, shopping, working etc. Thank you I will take a look at these videos.
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Post by john1234 on Aug 16, 2021 23:59:06 GMT
annieb….an attatchment disorder ? Are you saying I should buy this book because I have an attachment disorder? Thank you for the response.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 17, 2021 0:27:56 GMT
I have also read on some sites that it is not even possible to change your style. Rest assured, this is not true. I know at least 5 other people IRL who changed their styles to earn secure (all FA or DA), some more who are in process who have seen improvement, and I did it. All of us are now in stable relationships, though all with different partners than those whose break ups may have led to our different paths of change. @shiningstar did it as well. It's not easy at all but it's absolutely possible. I recommend watching some videos by Thais Gibson as well.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 17, 2021 1:09:03 GMT
I have also read on some sites that it is not even possible to change your style. Rest assured, this is not true. I know at least 5 other people IRL who changed their styles to earn secure (all FA or DA), some more who are in process who have seen improvement, and I did it. All of us are now in stable relationships, though all with different partners than those whose break ups may have led to our different paths of change. @shiningstar did it as well. It's not easy at all but it's absolutely possible. I recommend watching some videos by Thais Gibson as well. I completely agree with alexandra…..it is possible…and even though I am not earned secure yet…I am on my way.
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Post by john1234 on Aug 17, 2021 1:42:16 GMT
I have also read on some sites that it is not even possible to change your style. Rest assured, this is not true. I know at least 5 other people IRL who changed their styles to earn secure (all FA or DA), some more who are in process who have seen improvement, and I did it. All of us are now in stable relationships, though all with different partners than those whose break ups may have led to our different paths of change. @shiningstar did it as well. It's not easy at all but it's absolutely possible. I recommend watching some videos by Thais Gibson as well. I have watched many of her videos. She is great.
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Post by john1234 on Aug 17, 2021 1:43:03 GMT
Rest assured, this is not true. I know at least 5 other people IRL who changed their styles to earn secure (all FA or DA), some more who are in process who have seen improvement, and I did it. All of us are now in stable relationships, though all with different partners than those whose break ups may have led to our different paths of change. @shiningstar did it as well. It's not easy at all but it's absolutely possible. I recommend watching some videos by Thais Gibson as well. I have watched many of her videos. She is great. . Did you say it took two years?
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Post by john1234 on Aug 17, 2021 1:44:03 GMT
Rest assured, this is not true. I know at least 5 other people IRL who changed their styles to earn secure (all FA or DA), some more who are in process who have seen improvement, and I did it. All of us are now in stable relationships, though all with different partners than those whose break ups may have led to our different paths of change. @shiningstar did it as well. It's not easy at all but it's absolutely possible. I recommend watching some videos by Thais Gibson as well. I completely agree with alexandra…..it is possible…and even though I am not earned secure yet…I am on my way. How long have you been in the process?
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 17, 2021 1:50:55 GMT
I completely agree with alexandra …..it is possible…and even though I am not earned secure yet…I am on my way. How long have you been in the process? With earnestness about it? 2 years….but…..that is two years of unpacking a bunch of childhood trauma and how that has tied into today.
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