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Post by seeking on Dec 15, 2021 14:41:28 GMT
I'm trying to see if I can fit this all into one category.
I have been in a similar dynamic with other people and trying to figure this one out.
I have a friend who is going through a horrible mess of a divorce/custody thing. She also regularly dissociates, and doesn't always act like she's in her adult space.
I've been through something similar so it can be triggering for me, but I'm pretty careful about it.
I know I've helped her a lot - and she's thanked me. I helped her find a really good therapist, get a lawyer, gotten in touch with domestic violence, helped kind of script boundaries she can have with her ex. And its made a huge difference.
Recently, she was in a dilemma and outside people - including myself - were giving her feedback but it was like she couldn't hear it. I was genuinely worried that she was risking losing her kids. That day, I was on the phone with her a couple times. Mind you, I'm a working single mom homeschooling a kid. So the time I'm giving her I guess I hope "counts" in some ways. I do feel invested b/c I care about what happens.
So all this is going on and she calls me to tell me about her therapy session and I'm thinking it will have something to do with the immediate crises she's in. And, she starts talking about when she was a little girl and how she is realizing she needs to have more "fun in my life" (?) - It was a total disconnect for me, so I didn't say anything. I was kind of quiet on the phone, processing, and she seemed to sense that? I guess? Because she was like "I was just sharing it with you..."
And I tried to circle back to like "Yeah, okay, but you've got this situation." But she didn't want to talk about that suddenly.
And yet - I couldn't go to that "other place" with her. I think she wanted me to. And it felt like I would be enabling her dissociation. I know that dissociation is necessary sometimes as a survival tool and for protection, but it felt alarming on my end. I felt like I was saying to her "Stay awake! Don't got to sleep!"
Later we sent some voice memos back and forth and I was a little annoyed. She had said something like "This is hard."
That can be a trigger for me I guess. Like when people are in this victim space. She was saying "This is hard." But it sounded like she was saying "I can't do this." I guess I couldn't be fully present with her in that moment b/c I think I was feeling somehow abandoned. Like where did my friend go? Why does it feel like I'm the only adult in the room? So I messaged her back and was like "Yep, shit's hard sometimes. I did a ton of hard shit for years, and survived. And you can do this. You'll get through it." I don't know if that's what she needed to hear but I think it's hard for me to navigate that place with another person. And I also think this is where some enmeshment feels like it came in? Like where was the boundary. She's allowed to say "This is hard." And I can stay on my side of the street and witness.
So during one of the voice memos, she said she was "done processing for the day" and going to bed. And I heard that. And I respected it and said get some rest. She said she felt like I was being really "harsh." I am not exactly sure what I was harsh about. But I guess that's how she experienced it.
We didn't talk for nearly 2 weeks after that. I think she had to go away, etc. And I was busy and she reached out to me last week and said "We should talk." Which felt bad. Like a younger part of me popped up and thought like "Great, now I'm in trouble."
We talked and she basically had to tell me that I was "really intense" that day and she had a panic attack. And I'm thinking - oh, so it was me? Lol. Her situation was INTENSE that day - but she couldn't connect to it. She admits she's in dissociation a lot. But somehow, I was intense. I didn't plan to get so defensive on the phone, but I was. And it was a mess. It felt like her sharing with me how she felt - which is fair. But there was a big part of me that was unwilling to back down.
I still have this kind of "agenda" for her - that can come up in a lot of my relationships - and that is what I'm writing about here - it feels hard (and may not possible) for me to be around people who regularly dissociation and aren't standing in their power. I know I was like that once. But I can't imagine I was the most pleasant or healthy to be around.
Anyway, this is a friendship - but it would happen in a more intimate relationship. It feels like the anxious attached part of me. Like the other party is checking out (maybe not from me). And it feels hard to hang by and watch it.
Any feedback appreciated.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 15, 2021 15:11:25 GMT
I'm trying to see if I can fit this all into one category. I have been in a similar dynamic with other people and trying to figure this one out. I have a friend who is going through a horrible mess of a divorce/custody thing. She also regularly dissociates, and doesn't always act like she's in her adult space. I've been through something similar so it can be triggering for me, but I'm pretty careful about it. I know I've helped her a lot - and she's thanked me. I helped her find a really good therapist, get a lawyer, gotten in touch with domestic violence, helped kind of script boundaries she can have with her ex. And its made a huge difference. Recently, she was in a dilemma and outside people - including myself - were giving her feedback but it was like she couldn't hear it. I was genuinely worried that she was risking losing her kids. That day, I was on the phone with her a couple times. Mind you, I'm a working single mom homeschooling a kid. So the time I'm giving her I guess I hope "counts" in some ways. I do feel invested b/c I care about what happens. So all this is going on and she calls me to tell me about her therapy session and I'm thinking it will have something to do with the immediate crises she's in. And, she starts talking about when she was a little girl and how she is realizing she needs to have more "fun in my life" (?) - It was a total disconnect for me, so I didn't say anything. I was kind of quiet on the phone, processing, and she seemed to sense that? I guess? Because she was like "I was just sharing it with you..." And I tried to circle back to like "Yeah, okay, but you've got this situation." But she didn't want to talk about that suddenly. And yet - I couldn't go to that "other place" with her. I think she wanted me to. And it felt like I would be enabling her dissociation. I know that dissociation is necessary sometimes as a survival tool and for protection, but it felt alarming on my end. I felt like I was saying to her "Stay awake! Don't got to sleep!" Later we sent some voice memos back and forth and I was a little annoyed. She had said something like "This is hard." That can be a trigger for me I guess. Like when people are in this victim space. She was saying "This is hard." But it sounded like she was saying "I can't do this." I guess I couldn't be fully present with her in that moment b/c I think I was feeling somehow abandoned. Like where did my friend go? Why does it feel like I'm the only adult in the room? So I messaged her back and was like "Yep, shit's hard sometimes. I did a ton of hard shit for years, and survived. And you can do this. You'll get through it." I don't know if that's what she needed to hear but I think it's hard for me to navigate that place with another person. And I also think this is where some enmeshment feels like it came in? Like where was the boundary. She's allowed to say "This is hard." And I can stay on my side of the street and witness. So during one of the voice memos, she said she was "done processing for the day" and going to bed. And I heard that. And I respected it and said get some rest. She said she felt like I was being really "harsh." I am not exactly sure what I was harsh about. But I guess that's how she experienced it. We didn't talk for nearly 2 weeks after that. I think she had to go away, etc. And I was busy and she reached out to me last week and said "We should talk." Which felt bad. Like a younger part of me popped up and thought like "Great, now I'm in trouble." We talked and she basically had to tell me that I was "really intense" that day and she had a panic attack. And I'm thinking - oh, so it was me? Lol. Her situation was INTENSE that day - but she couldn't connect to it. She admits she's in dissociation a lot. But somehow, I was intense. I didn't plan to get so defensive on the phone, but I was. And it was a mess. It felt like her sharing with me how she felt - which is fair. But there was a big part of me that was unwilling to back down. I still have this kind of "agenda" for her - that can come up in a lot of my relationships - and that is what I'm writing about here - it feels hard (and may not possible) for me to be around people who regularly dissociation and aren't standing in their power. I know I was like that once. But I can't imagine I was the most pleasant or healthy to be around. Anyway, this is a friendship - but it would happen in a more intimate relationship. It feels like the anxious attached part of me. Like the other party is checking out (maybe not from me). And it feels hard to hang by and watch it. Any feedback appreciated. You probably were the only adult in the room…..when I had my car accident…I disassociated….even here….which @introvert brought to my attention. 🙂. I think what you are discovering about your friend is her lack of tools…and her inability to articulate what she needs from you….does she want advice? Does she want to simply vent? If she were forthcoming about that, then you would have a chance to decide if you want to participate or not…but because the lines are not clear…you are drawn into a space where neither of you is getting what you want. I would honestly give yourself some self care…a message, bubble bath….also, I would not engage in texting with her because it sounds like there is too much room for misinterpretation.
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Post by annieb on Dec 15, 2021 15:17:37 GMT
Hey seeking - to me this sounds like you were trying to shake her out of her victim mode and you’ve been there and you’ve gotten out and it’s just very frustrating for you that she can’t. But being a good friend sometimes means that we will stand by them no matter what. Even if they don’t “perform” the way we think they should (or deserve). It’s frustrating to watch another person struggle, and everyone goes through something, but our experiences are only ours to have. They are very individual experiences even with lots of therapy and growth. And we as friends ought to support them in their journey. Tough love is great, but so is soft love; however “enabling”; it is accepting.
I’ve been in your shoes many times, but over time I realized it is me I’m frustrated with, not with them per se. It is me that’s stressed and reacting and condescending on them. And by extension I was projecting.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 15, 2021 18:03:17 GMT
seeking I agree that you recognize and have grown out of what she's doing, so it's hard for you to sit through because you recognize that she's hurting herself and you want what's best for her. I don't really think it's a problem that this came out as you were intense, and can understand the frustration that would have led to that, but she wasn't ready or receptive to hear you. It is a boundary issue for you, just backing off if you're not getting through because she is who she is and all you can do is accept that if you want to continue your close friendship. However, that doesn't mean you need to enable her. If she's disassociating, you can excuse yourself from the conversation. After a while she'll probably stop coming to you for that specific type of issue because she's not getting enabled like she wants, but that's okay too. Maybe it will cause her to think about why you're backing off those topics, though if she's not ready to deal with herself, it probably won't. But part of learning healthier relating, which you've been doing for some time, is that it will have an impact on unhealthy aspects to your existing friendships and relationships. Other insecure people are not necessarily changing with you and are used to a certain script in their minds about how your interactions go, assigned roles. There may be some growing pains here as a result, but I don't think it necessarily means you were getting enmeshed with her in your example. If anything, it may be the opposite that you were enmeshed before and now that you've grown out of it you're trying to assert something healthier, but since it's still new for you you're still trying to figure out how that looks for yourself. But it does involve letting go of the idea that you can help / save her, because she's also an adult who makes her own choices which you need to accept for better or worse. Even though it's painful to watch when someone self-sabotages or destructs.
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Post by seeking on Dec 15, 2021 18:18:50 GMT
You probably were the only adult in the room…..when I had my car accident…I disassociated….even here….which @introvert brought to my attention. 🙂. I think what you are discovering about your friend is her lack of tools…and her inability to articulate what she needs from you….does she want advice? Does she want to simply vent? If she were forthcoming about that, then you would have a chance to decide if you want to participate or not…but because the lines are not clear…you are drawn into a space where neither of you is getting what you want. I would honestly give yourself some self care…a message, bubble bath….also, I would not engage in texting with her because it sounds like there is too much room for misinterpretation. Thanks for this. That is what has been tricky. All along, the implication is that she is asking for help. She knows I have strong views (with domestic violence, narcissism). She was greatly at risk this day and I spoke up strongly (she chose to use the words "harsh" and "intense") - It feels like it can get messy because there are times when I don't say anything - and she also gets a little weird about that. Like she'll say "If you're thinking something, can you tell me." And here I told her - and it was too much. It starts to feel kind of exhausting. Too much/too little. And so the way we left things, I don't really know how to support her. And it's not like I can realistically have a boundary with the ex-court drama since it's a big part of her life. I'd rather actually not be involved. But I don't know if you get to pick and choose that when friends are going through stuff. Oh, and we were sending voice memos - not texting - but yeah, I get your point. But I like how you said "Drawn into a space where neither were getting what you want" - that is where I didn't feel like I got to choose that day - suddenly, I'm just drawn in and trying to help rather than - maybe I need to not engage in this today.
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Post by seeking on Dec 15, 2021 18:23:12 GMT
Hey seeking - to me this sounds like you were trying to shake her out of her victim mode and you’ve been there and you’ve gotten out and it’s just very frustrating for you that she can’t. But being a good friend sometimes means that we will stand by them no matter what. Even if they don’t “perform” the way we think they should (or deserve). It’s frustrating to watch another person struggle, and everyone goes through something, but our experiences are only ours to have. They are very individual experiences even with lots of therapy and growth. And we as friends ought to support them in their journey. Tough love is great, but so is soft love; however “enabling”; it is accepting. I’ve been in your shoes many times, but over time I realized it is me I’m frustrated with, not with them per se. It is me that’s stressed and reacting and condescending on them. And by extension I was projecting. And we as friends ought to support them in their journey. Tough love is great, but so is soft love; however “enabling”; it is accepting.
Yeah, this part feels where my work is. I can't really do this well. I do mostly tough love. Or kind of "check out" - When she said "this is hard" (I don't know if I wrote that part), there was a part of me that was like YOUR DAD IS PAYING FOR EVERYTHING - you don't work! It put me into a weird shock state because when I was going through this, I literally couldn't afford therapy - never mind having 2 therapists, friends who are helping, living off a parent's money, etc. It felt like am I being manipulated? Like she wants me to agree with her that it's hard, but I felt really resistant to that. So I know that's not great on my part, but really hard in the moment to be like "Aw, yeah, I know it's hard." I would not have been genuine or in integrity at all if I did.
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Post by seeking on Dec 15, 2021 18:40:30 GMT
I think after what I wrote to Annie and Tnr talking about self-care, that I really can't be a support to her in certain ways and that I'm trying to be and getting upset because I'm not doing it "right" and going to pause here and just have compassion for the part of me that had to do ridiculously hard things - so much so that they left me with PTSD, and that I can't realistically support someone who is coming from a victim place- I mean, I can. And I have. But I think with this particular friend, it feels "unethical" like it jars too much of my "stuff" to be in a clean place to offer her my support.
Plus, in my defense (and I know I'm still being defensive) but that day (I don't want to share too many personal details) was INTENSE. And she's now trying to tell me it wasn't and she was fine.
She'd just had a court hearing where the judge wanted her to have an escort to her car b/c her ex was being so crazy (in front of a judge!) and seemed under the influence. Her own lawyer said she'd never heard the judge say that. That was alarming. Then her ex went to her lawyer's office and the receptionist said he was being scary! And her lawyer told her NOT to send her kids for their visit. This was the day in question - the day *I* was being intense, according to her. Her kids were begging her not to go.
So I'm on the phone with her like WAKE THE EF UP (not really but in a kind way). I didn't think there was really anything else for me to do. Later, she called me, and that's when she wanted to talk about how she needed to have more "fun in my life" - and it was really bewildering.
When we talked about it, it's like she doesn't remember it that way -
I guess I just don't even know what to do with this at this point. And the fact that I'm making it my issue is so typical of me. I mean, I do this - I get in people's business sometimes. And I want to clean up my side of the street.
But I feel like I'm sticking to my thing here - like I'm actually happy I was intense. I know she wants someone to back off and not tell her what to do - but if you see your friend about to jump in front of a truck, you might get a little intense, I suppose.
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Post by seeking on Dec 15, 2021 19:31:34 GMT
seeking I agree that you recognize and have grown out of what she's doing, so it's hard for you to sit through because you recognize that she's hurting herself and you want what's best for her. I don't really think it's a problem that this came out as you were intense, and can understand the frustration that would have led to that, but she wasn't ready or receptive to hear you. It is a boundary issue for you, *** Meaning, I need to have a boundary with her? just backing off if you're not getting through because she is who she is and all you can do is accept that if you want to continue your close friendship. *** I did that. I did it when she said she needed to have "more fun in my life" - I didn't say anything, and she kind of got upset and was like "I was just sharing with you." Like I was supposed to suddenly be able to attend to that in the face of everything else that was going on!? Anyway, this feels really good to me - to do it this way. This is usually what I do. I am bad at "soft love" - but I can definitely just stay quiet (and have) and not buy into what wackiness people are saying. I accept that in my friendships (i.e, if my friends get quiet and kind of don't go along with my nuttiness). But I have done this with this friend, and she gets upset when I do that too. However, that doesn't mean you need to enable her. If she's disassociating, you can excuse yourself from the conversation. After a while she'll probably stop coming to you for that specific type of issue because she's not getting enabled like she wants, but that's okay too. Yes, this really helps. I did this with talking to her when her kids were around. She'd pick up her phone despite having her kids there, and then we'd try to have a conversation and she'd interrupt every 1 minute and talk to or yell at her kids. Instead of just picking up when she was available - and so I didn't talk to her anymore when her kids were around. And she got that pretty quickly. But part of learning healthier relating, which you've been doing for some time, is that it will have an impact on unhealthy aspects to your existing friendships and relationships. Other insecure people are not necessarily changing with you and are used to a certain script in their minds about how your interactions go, assigned roles. Agree. I did become friends with this person really only over the past year. And we got close fast, which may have been a bit of a red flag in our dynamic. She knows she overshares. Another mutual friend warned me to have boundaries with her. And the whole relationship has been a bit intense, and made me question at times if I want to be in it - I literally just walked out of the mess I was in for years with my own ex, etc. And this was all pretty triggering for me, but I've largely been able to take care of myself in it and also appreciate the times she's available to have conversations about other things - life, and child rearing, and homeopathy, and homeschooling and what we're all going through in the world. She's like minded (our kids were in class together at a school we both recently left) but it often feels like her energy is just really hijacked by a lot of complicated stuff and codependency - and I see myself getting sucked in (like the parts of me that are still healing)...and so I'm being careful. There may be some growing pains here as a result, but I don't think it necessarily means you were getting enmeshed with her in your example. If anything, it may be the opposite that you were enmeshed before and now that you've grown out of it you're trying to assert something healthier, but since it's still new for you you're still trying to figure out how that looks for yourself. But it does involve letting go of the idea that you can help / save her, because she's also an adult who makes her own choices which you need to accept for better or worse. Even though it's painful to watch when someone self-sabotages or destructs.yes, this is still true. And, yeah, it's frustrating. That day, I was more or less looking out for her children - and for her - I was afraid something would happen to them (more trauma). I knew I was overstepping a boundary. But it was like she just wasn't there - and I knew other people were trying to tell her too (like her lawyer). So yeah, I just don't know what to do from here - I feel like I need some space - but I will probably send her a note - our convo didn't go well that night. And I do feel sad at the loss of our friendship.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 15, 2021 19:49:11 GMT
Yes, that you need to hold a boundary and not push her and insist in a way that she hear you if she's not listening. State your point, if she's not interested, it's okay to change the subject or wind down the conversation.
This doesn't have to be all or nothing in the friendship, unless she requires the friendship to include this aspect of her life. You can tell her that you care about her and what's going on, but it's hard for you to stay objective when it's so reminiscent of your past experiences. That you're sorry for how the last couple interactions have gone and don't want to make her feel bad about it or to sit in conflict due to you both having different and irreconcilable perspectives. That if you're not helping, you're better off enjoying your time together on other topics. And you can see how she responds to that.
This may freak her out though if she has boundary issues. I don't personally believe it's overly problematic to say any of this because it's in the vein of honest communication and attempted conflict resolution, but not everyone is good at that or comfortable with it. I have a couple friends, though, that we have topics we just clash about so we don't go there anymore. If I need support in those areas I have other people better suited I can talk to, and I see no reason to hold any of that against anyone. We can otherwise stay friends.
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Post by seeking on Dec 15, 2021 21:58:51 GMT
Alexandra- I agree and this would feel good. I think it's possible. I will see.... I think it's tricky because it can often take up a lot of her life. And we've really navigated it well thus far - she's actually cried before thanking me for helping her. I don't need that kind of credit. I really have zero interest in "saving" anyone - mostly I've been concerned for her young boys who are growing up with a disaster of an alcoholic/drugging father. And she's mostly always overwhelmed - so it's not that big of a deal to be like "I think you need to hire a lawyer," "Try this therapist, she does trauma work." Etc. "Trying saying this" when her ex texts her nuttiness. They are only always suggestions. I always tell her I will not judge her whatever she decides - it's her decision.
It was just this day I spoke pretty strongly b/c she'd clearly checked out.
And the thing is it wasn't a problem *for me* - we could have gone on and I would have been fine with whatever she did. But she was the one who contacted me and said "We should talk" and that I was "intense" -- so I guess I just don't know what to do with that?
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Post by alexandra on Dec 16, 2021 1:20:54 GMT
seeking, apologize that it felt like a confrontation as it was not your intention and acknowledge and take note of what she said. That doesn't mean she's right, but she does has feelings and interacting like that together doesn't work well so you need to think about what you want to do with it. Repeated incidences of it might make me consider how emotionally healthy the friendship can be for me and how close or distant of friends I actually want to be.
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Post by annieb on Dec 16, 2021 15:41:54 GMT
Hey seeking - to me this sounds like you were trying to shake her out of her victim mode and you’ve been there and you’ve gotten out and it’s just very frustrating for you that she can’t. But being a good friend sometimes means that we will stand by them no matter what. Even if they don’t “perform” the way we think they should (or deserve). It’s frustrating to watch another person struggle, and everyone goes through something, but our experiences are only ours to have. They are very individual experiences even with lots of therapy and growth. And we as friends ought to support them in their journey. Tough love is great, but so is soft love; however “enabling”; it is accepting. I’ve been in your shoes many times, but over time I realized it is me I’m frustrated with, not with them per se. It is me that’s stressed and reacting and condescending on them. And by extension I was projecting. And we as friends ought to support them in their journey. Tough love is great, but so is soft love; however “enabling”; it is accepting.
Yeah, this part feels where my work is. I can't really do this well. I do mostly tough love. Or kind of "check out" - When she said "this is hard" (I don't know if I wrote that part), there was a part of me that was like YOUR DAD IS PAYING FOR EVERYTHING - you don't work! It put me into a weird shock state because when I was going through this, I literally couldn't afford therapy - never mind having 2 therapists, friends who are helping, living off a parent's money, etc. It felt like am I being manipulated? Like she wants me to agree with her that it's hard, but I felt really resistant to that. So I know that's not great on my part, but really hard in the moment to be like "Aw, yeah, I know it's hard." I would not have been genuine or in integrity at all if I did. I hear you in that. I’ve been caught in that trap a few times with my well off friend (she is a born and raised wealthy fifth generation American and I’m an off the boat immigrant); and yet we have so much incommon. She’s offered tough love to me and while it was really hard to accept it for me in the moment, her words were what led me out of my last daze of being in a relationship with a narcissist. I resisted her advice yet it was what saved me. Sure, how can I take her advice when she has all these resources and I have none. Yet it still applied. It worked. I’ve been bewildered with her before for other reasons. Her splitting tip and tax when paying a restaurant bill making sure she isn’t paying for what she didn’t order type of thing or travel expenses splitting and calculating ad nauseum. Whereas I would just pay whatever since she is my friend and it’s more important for me to be with her than to penny pinch. And she has wealth whereas my “net worth” is pretty much always in the red (Although I’ve climbed out of the hole recently). It’s hard to “help” someone who clearly has more resources than we do, but it’s still very caring to do so. And if we can get over our own resentment. I think both friends are better off.
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Post by seeking on Dec 16, 2021 22:28:51 GMT
I also had a realization today - and just wanted to post it here, mostly so I can remind myself. But I was messaging my sister about our mom whose health I'm starting to manage more and more.
My sister lives a very protected life - doesn't work, has a husband who does everything. When our parents were in an accident, she basically curled up in a ball and couldn't function. No judgment, but it's like she's not equipped to cope with life. I get that we both came from trauma. But while I turned my career into working as a trauma practitioner, my sister hasn't even gone to therapy. When she does, she gets really mad and starts blaming everyone else around her and says it's her husband's fault.
So today I'm writing her an email because I'm not allowed to send her voice memos because they "stress her out" and I'm writing the email and thinking, Oh this is going to stress her out too. Like I should sugar coat it, couch it in ways that don't upset her.
It's been this way all my life with certain people - me being the one willing to look at things head on, be direct, face it. I never actually really knew how to do otherwise. And other people treating me as if I'm "intense" like the word my friend used - which can feel really alienating - and not only alienating, but lonely - like the feeling I had when my friend was in her child place rather than like an adult who is facing this head on - and I'm her friend supporting her in this hard thing.
The weird thing though is that it gives me that feeling of being around an avoidant. Like I'm "too much" or wrong in some way. I don't feel wrong or too much until I've encountered their energy.
And they make it about me - like the email to my sister about my mom - she hasn't responded, but typically she'd get like upset. Whereas I'm trying to relay to her necessary information, but she can't handle it so she puts it on me/blames me.
It's actually one of the worst feelings.
But I realize it's the trigger that got brought up with my friend a couple weeks ago, which for some reason is helpful for me to see..
Thanks again for the feedback and the space to share and process.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 23:09:01 GMT
Alexandra- I agree and this would feel good. I think it's possible. I will see.... I think it's tricky because it can often take up a lot of her life. And we've really navigated it well thus far - she's actually cried before thanking me for helping her. I don't need that kind of credit. I really have zero interest in "saving" anyone - mostly I've been concerned for her young boys who are growing up with a disaster of an alcoholic/drugging father. And she's mostly always overwhelmed - so it's not that big of a deal to be like "I think you need to hire a lawyer," "Try this therapist, she does trauma work." Etc. "Trying saying this" when her ex texts her nuttiness. They are only always suggestions. I always tell her I will not judge her whatever she decides - it's her decision. It was just this day I spoke pretty strongly b/c she'd clearly checked out. And the thing is it wasn't a problem *for me* - we could have gone on and I would have been fine with whatever she did. But she was the one who contacted me and said "We should talk" and that I was "intense" -- so I guess I just don't know what to do with that? just wanted to add that sometimes people need to dissociate, play it down, turn it around on you, etc etc, because it is what they need to protect themselves and a very fragile sense of reality. Alot of people struggle to maintain a sense of normalcy in their reality, even when things are not normal. And the more things are not normal, the more they work to try to keep it normal. That's what it sounds like to me in this case - it's clearly not a normal situation that is very threatening to one's sense of normalcy and stability. In a way, the more you push for solutions, the more it requires for her to acknowledge and accept that there are plenty of problems, which she does not seem to be ready for or is still working towards. This can be very daunting because it is not just one problem at a time (or so it can feel that way), but feels like a mass of tangible and intangible problems all tied together in one big ball. Because it is very hard to disentangle all the problems to fix them one by one, it's overwhelming and there's paralysis i.e., checking out, ignoring, playing it down. She's not psychologically prepared for fixing i.e., it's not something she's ready for yet because it requires resources (self-awareness, energy, clarity, determination, money, patience, strategizing, etc) that she has yet to muster up. She herself said she's in "processing" stage, not in "fixing" stage, and that is why it can be hard to hear what you have to offer - because it keeps disrupting wherever she is at, to get to where you are at. Also, if you're always the "fixer", others can tend to outsource that job to you, and stay in the "processor" role, since there is no pressure to do anything themselves. She is well aware of the solutions - maybe all you need to say is "this is hard, i know. but you know you have the tools and me when it's time to get fixing", and just leave it to her to come to it on her own terms. Everyone needs to be in the victim space (to feel sorry for themselves and to recognise that shit's happened); some people stay in it longer than others, some stay way too long, but it can be healthy to take a beat and acknowledge one's situation. It sounds like as a child, you have had to be in the adult space without support, and perhaps even get blamed at times. Maybe not being always a "fixer" is something you can experiment with! I've experimented being on both sides - victim and fixer roles. Being a victim is no longer enjoyable once I've tasted how empowering it is to be a fixer, and I'm frustrated most times with others. But to acknowledge and appreciate one's victimization can be healing as well. Much love from me to you, her and the kids <3
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Post by seeking on Dec 17, 2021 2:09:48 GMT
In a way, the more you push for solutions, the more it requires for her to acknowledge and accept that there are plenty of problems, which she does not seem to be ready for or is still working towards. I really appreciate your response and understanding of the situation - and, yes, this is very much the case. I think I'm a safe person for her to be angry at/kind of lash out at/have a boundary with right now. She can't wit her ex. And she is in kind of "fawn mode" with him and her lawyer. So I become a bit of the bad guy in a way. Which part of me is fine with (it's a lot like parenting!) but parts of me are like "ef that!" (my own younger/more dysregulated parts)
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