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Post by introvert on Apr 19, 2022 3:58:02 GMT
Thank you tnr9 I'm glad that I'm starting g to be able to put some of my observations into words, even more glad if it can help anyone else grow. I know reading your journey and those of others here has helped me greatly understand my part in the hurt and I am trying so hard to not do that anymore. I think it's incredible and it's rewarding to see all of us working through this stuff. I resisted painful truths coming to self awareness also but you only fight that so long before it becomes too difficult to deny, and then embracing the fact that your thinking and actions are flawed becomes a relief at some point... because there is the answer, and there is the opportunity for improvement. It's not at all easy, not simple. Having it all fall down brick by brick is painful and can be frightening but it's also freeing and lets some light in. Hallelujah, lol. Some Light! Also, learning how to love yourself means having grace for where you've got it wrong, and also knowing that the lie of being unworthy is just that- it's a lie, a narrative, a reaction. Not the truth. You can't experience the safety of self love until you get there but once you do, things change, you change, your relationships change, and none of this triggers like it used to. It's just easier on every level, not the huge emotional dramatic fight it used to be. Safety isn't so scarce. |
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Post by introvert on Apr 19, 2022 4:19:14 GMT
Something I have heard from every single warm blooded, feeling, frustrated avoidant about their ex partner or current anxious partner: I don't feel heard. So whether you think an avoidant has communicated properly or not, that's one of the most painful aspects of being avoidantly attached. Not being heard, and having all kinds of things overlaid on their experience. In sooooo many cases, the avoidant has said flat out that they have doubts, are not feeling it, don't see a future. But when triggered by this expression of inner truth, an anxious person will go into overdrive and effectively eliminate any receptivity to this idea. The activated nervous system takes over, there is too much panic and activity and fear to be able to hear, accept, acknowledge, allow the avoidant to be in that state and to find safety. It's like rykus9 said, the suffering happens most inside the relationship for an avoidant, and by the time they leave they are not hanging on because they have gotten to the point of letting go. It's not that they never cared, it's not all the AP fears come true. I think in this case also the avoidant partner expressed doubts, confusion, and conflicted feelings. It's very common that this doesn't register well for an anxiously attached person, or that they think they can alter that and have it not be so. |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 19, 2022 4:34:27 GMT
Thank you tnr9 I'm glad that I'm starting g to be able to put some of my observations into words, even more glad if it can help anyone else grow. I know reading your journey and those of others here has helped me greatly understand my part in the hurt and I am trying so hard to not do that anymore. I think it is mutual hurt caused by mutual insecure attachment issues. I for one welcome these posts that share the “other side” as it gives me insight into the struggles that I have not been attuned to. I have a lot more empathy for what B must have gone through. |
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Post by usernametaken on Apr 19, 2022 4:43:06 GMT
Something I have heard from every single warm blooded, feeling, frustrated avoidant about their ex partner or current anxious partner: I don't feel heard. So whether you think an avoidant has communicated properly or not, that's one of the most painful aspects of being avoidantly attached. Not being heard, and having all kinds of things overlaid on their experience. In sooooo many cases, the avoidant has said flat out that they have doubts, are not feeling it, don't see a future. But when triggered by this expression of inner truth, an anxious person will go into overdrive and effectively eliminate any receptivity to this idea. The activated nervous system takes over, there is too much panic and activity and fear to be able to hear, accept, acknowledge, allow the avoidant to be in that state and to find safety. It's like rykus9 said, the suffering happens most inside the relationship for an avoidant, and by the time they leave they are not hanging on because they have gotten to the point of letting go. It's not that they never cared, it's not all the AP fears come true. I think in this case also the avoidant partner expressed doubts, confusion, and conflicted feelings. It's very common that this doesn't register well for an anxiously attached person, or that they think they can alter that and have it not be so. I am going to say yes and no with this. No one is perfectly attuned to their partner all the time. I think insecure attachers also have a tendency to slide things into conversation very subtlety. So instead of saying hey I'm feeling x can we talk, they kinda make a side comment and then the other person doesn't realize how big of an issue it is or misses it completely thinking it's just an offhanded comment. I'm trying to get better for listening for these comments but I think anyone would have an issue picking them up sometimes. |
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Post by introvert on Apr 19, 2022 4:51:36 GMT
Something I have heard from every single warm blooded, feeling, frustrated avoidant about their ex partner or current anxious partner: I don't feel heard. So whether you think an avoidant has communicated properly or not, that's one of the most painful aspects of being avoidantly attached. Not being heard, and having all kinds of things overlaid on their experience. In sooooo many cases, the avoidant has said flat out that they have doubts, are not feeling it, don't see a future. But when triggered by this expression of inner truth, an anxious person will go into overdrive and effectively eliminate any receptivity to this idea. The activated nervous system takes over, there is too much panic and activity and fear to be able to hear, accept, acknowledge, allow the avoidant to be in that state and to find safety. It's like rykus9 said, the suffering happens most inside the relationship for an avoidant, and by the time they leave they are not hanging on because they have gotten to the point of letting go. It's not that they never cared, it's not all the AP fears come true. I think in this case also the avoidant partner expressed doubts, confusion, and conflicted feelings. It's very common that this doesn't register well for an anxiously attached person, or that they think they can alter that and have it not be so. I am going to say yes and no with this. No one is perfectly attuned to their partner all the time. I think insecure attachers also have a tendency to slide things into conversation very subtlety. So instead of saying hey I'm feeling x can we talk, they kinda make a side comment and then the other person doesn't realize how big of an issue it is or misses it completely thinking it's just an offhanded comment. I'm trying to get better for listening for these comments but I think anyone would have an issue picking them up sometimes. I get what you're saying, but I am mentioning this specifically because I've seen it in so many stories here, especially recently. Of course no one is perfectly attuned, but I believe AP have a particularly hard time with receiving what's being said. Jeb mentioned that in an AP article and I felt it was spot on from my experience. I'll link it below. jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-anxious-preoccupied/?amp |
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Post by usernametaken on Apr 19, 2022 5:07:38 GMT
Oh, yeah. I think we wear some rose colored glasses and not only do we tend to miss feelings but when we do pick up on them, it's a we can work through this which is kinda rail roading and invalidating our partner. Where as an avoidant is more cynical about relationships so finds evidence even if trivial about why things are doomed.
I am getting better at picking up on things, but I tend to not address it. I struggle with feeling like a mature partner will tell me if there is anything important in their mind so we can openly discuss it. but I get that probably is wishful thinking and not realistic for the world we live in. Curiousity I think is important for both sides to express.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 19, 2022 14:10:58 GMT
Oh, yeah. I think we wear some rose colored glasses and not only do we tend to miss feelings but when we do pick up on them, it's a we can work through this which is kinda rail roading and invalidating our partner. Where as an avoidant is more cynical about relationships so finds evidence even if trivial about why things are doomed. I am getting better at picking up on things, but I tend to not address it. I struggle with feeling like a mature partner will tell me if there is anything important in their mind so we can openly discuss it. but I get that probably is wishful thinking and not realistic for the world we live in. Curiousity I think is important for both sides to express. I agree…..however, being here and knowing what I now know….I can look back on a myriad of times that B was simply trying to avoid conflict. Is that the right way to handle things? Nope. But I picked him…I picked a man who told me he hated conflict…so as much as I would say I want someone who is open with communication etc. it seems that my natural inclination is to pick someone who can’t. It is a conundrum. |
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Post by introvert on Apr 19, 2022 14:26:46 GMT
Oh, yeah. I think we wear some rose colored glasses and not only do we tend to miss feelings but when we do pick up on them, it's a we can work through this which is kinda rail roading and invalidating our partner. Where as an avoidant is more cynical about relationships so finds evidence even if trivial about why things are doomed. I am getting better at picking up on things, but I tend to not address it. I struggle with feeling like a mature partner will tell me if there is anything important in their mind so we can openly discuss it. but I get that probably is wishful thinking and not realistic for the world we live in. Curiousity I think is important for both sides to express. I agree…..however, being here and knowing what I now know….I can look back on a myriad of times that B was simply trying to avoid conflict. Is that the right way to handle things? Nope. But I picked him…I picked a man who told me he hated conflict…so as much as I would say I want someone who is open with communication etc. it seems that my natural inclination is to pick someone who can’t. It is a conundrum. Yes, both sides go at this sideways. But also, in this situation the avoidant gave a list of concerns that were dismissed by OP as excuses. He came up with a working theory of how a DA operates and said that her reasons were justifications after the fact and not what she really meant. This is something we see a lot, mind reading and trying to "figure out" a partner on the web instead of listening and accepting what the avoidant is saying. |
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Post by introvert on Apr 19, 2022 15:07:11 GMT
Isn't it true that AP tend to really not trust or "listen" ti themselves though, and that is where the relationship to self comes in? Here, the relationship presented all kinds of red flags and challenges just because of what was described by OP as the untenable or unlikely nature of LDR in different countries. The compulsion to persist in an untenable situation that is not meeting expectations is where the AP abandons the self and tries to overcome their own doubts and fears and warning signs, right? If they aren't listening to themselves, they can't listen well to others, and it comes from a fundamental lack of trust in their ability to get needs met or to even know really what those needs are on a deep level?
The avoidant conundrum is similar, shutting down their inner voice to adopt a narrative that seems like it could translate to something doable but in reality is just futile because of the basic inability to connect on a healthy level.
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