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Post by ctlguy260 on Aug 6, 2022 23:52:00 GMT
I am needed to vent here and having a tough time recently. I was with a FA/DA for a little over a year. We were absolutely best fiends, and just had so much joy with one another. We and everyone we knew talked about how rare of a couple we were. We cried laughing every day and had so much in common and she told me no man has ever loved her the way I had.
We officially broke up Nov 15th and I tried to work it out up until until Feb. She had so many walls up by then it was heart wrenching to feel and the constant rejection took its toll over me. There were even feelings up until the last time we saw each other and she stated she has to many things she had to work through as she was 2 yrs removed from a long marriage with a narcissist and she cant ask for me to wait on her to work through them after things she discovered in her woman's trauma group.
Low and behold she started seeing a guy 3 weeks after we stopped talking. Ironically he was a narcissist and "they had so much more of a connection then we did" and they felt like soul mates. At that point what we had according to her was just not enough and he was what she was looking for. She discovered who he was and then jumped right into another relationship weeks later. Needless to say this had dug a big knife in my heart as I feel that all we had, that she was not even fully committed in her heart at all. She never could have a deep conversation about us, or talk when I opened up. It became confusing where she couldn't even answer a direct question and just was like a dismissive "word salad" of vagueness.
Its been 7 months and I have never put work in on myself like I have. I am seeing a therapist, doing EMDR, taking course, reading book after book and I feel like I haven't made progress. I think about her EVERY day and I have never been more confused. Once I mentioned that every little memory of her triggers me from seeing her favorite drink at a gas station, driving by a restaurant we ate at before, or even the thought of the state she was born in. My therapist said the has been a traumatic event and that this is PTSD. For the life of me I cant break the cycle and we have spoke via email a few times with the last one me asking her to lunch and if she would be open to try to be friends and just catch up from time to time. She said she would love to be friends, then back tracked to "we could just check in from time to time and maybe in time we could hang out occasionally". I told her that what's the point and I if she is uncomfortable seeing me then the timing isn't right.
Today I have tried to be on the dating apps, talking to girls, exchanging numbers then go on dates. I am SO not able to connect or even consider putting ANY effort into it. I was primarily a AP but I am not full on FA now. I want a relationship after being single for 7 months but cant bring myself to do it. At this point I just want to wait now as I have tried to move on and cant do it and I cant help but to understand what it takes to be patient with a FA. In the end this is totally the hardest season of my life I have even been through.
So..... can a breakup with an FA that you loved deeply leave this much of a scar?
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Post by alexandra on Aug 7, 2022 3:06:47 GMT
It is not the breakup or love leaving the scar. It is that your self-esteem is very low and you do not know who you are without her. You are going through the motions of doing work, but you're still not ready to let go of her and focus on yourself, discovering who you are without her, and gathering the strength to define yourself. What fears are holding you back?
If you're not ready then you're not ready, and you keep trying and checking in with yourself until you are. Another relationship isn't going to fix this, though spending time with other people platonically or maybe family if you have any you are close to can help. If you lack a support system, getting into volunteering may help you get out of your head somewhat and change up the patterns you are stuck in. But pining for someone to the point that it interrupts and decreases your quality of life after many months or years usually represents a type of love addiction. You are stuck in the pain you know, which can seem romanticized and almost bittersweet, and may actually feel more comfortable than either the unknown or than sitting with other pain you may have. And if it's less painful for you to stay stuck than to move forward, then you may not be ready until you make the conscious decision that you deeply want a change.
I'm glad to hear you are still sticking through therapy and your other work, though, since your last few times posting. Every little bit does help even you're frustrated because it seems like you're not moving forward. Do you feel like you connect well with your therapist and are challenged by them in a positive way?
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Post by annieb on Aug 15, 2022 19:56:40 GMT
You’ve picked this person (another person that is not you) to carry the responsibility of your self worth. It’s a convenient trick our minds play on us. It’s a maladaptive survival mechanism. A dissociation. In order to overcome it you really have to divide the where you begin and this person ends. What is your thoughts and behavior and what is this other persons behavior and the meaning you have assigned to it. It feels like losing control (unfortunately we’ve all been there), and yet by controlling the outcome of the relationship we wish to control our self esteem. It’s deluding ourselves for feeling like we are in control by simultaneously relinquishing control. It’s all an illusion. None of this is actually happening.
Detaching from this object of limerence (that is all in your head and your own making, she is a proxy) will be a good exercise in where you end and another person begins. Once you do this exercise you’ll probably never fall into the same trap again; or at least not to this degree. It will require feeling all sorts of pain and discomfort in order to go through this. And yet there is not another way.
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Post by introvert on Aug 17, 2022 2:25:02 GMT
She is the object of your limerence. The limerence exists in you, she became the object you fixate on when she became unavailable. You are perpetuating limerence with your continual reaching out, which provides you with intermittent reinforcement. Essentially, you are the addict and her attention (along with hope and fantasy) is your drug. If you want to get better to no contact. This is similar to an addict doing whatever necessary to refrain from taking drugs. Withdrawal will ensue. You can continue to visit a therapist but if you keep feeding your addiction to this woman (the limerence) no one can really help you. If you read the article here you may get a perspective of this as a physiological/ psychological phenomenon rather than simply unrequited "love". Think of it rather as a rash or a tumor, something that must be treated appropriately to be rid of it and it's negative consequences. Don't romanticize your suffering, don't relentlessly pursue her as an alcoholic pursues a drink. Easier said than done to be sure. I've seen these kinds of things go on for years, the article mentions an average length of duration for limerence at 3 years, and it ends with a long enough period of not being reinforced. Cold turkey is the way to go. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence
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Post by summer83 on Sept 1, 2022 11:37:10 GMT
I felt the exact same way with my FA ex, and for years I was traumatised (with and without him in my life). It was endless toxic game playing with him.
We went through 3 cycles of him deactivating on me.
The first cycle lasted 8 months. He blocked all my social media and my phone number. I eventually created a new account and reached out, and we ended up getting back together.
That last 3.5 months, until he deactivated again. This time, he was gone for 11 months.
A friend contacted him, and we ended up back together. This time, it last 4.5 months until he deactivated again.
And now it’s been two months, and I’m blocked again,
This time, I give up. I just feel numb toward him, and I’m actually relieved that this time around I feel okay.
I am ending the cycle. I’m sure one day he’d take me back again if I reached out…but I’m not reaching out ever again. I realise he will never change. Im tired of someone who is unpredictable and unreliable.
It took me over 2 years to be at peace with never seeing him again.
Trust me, you will get over her. It may just take some time or maybe some cycles, and over time you’ll be repulsed by the behaviour so much you’ll wonder why you ever cared so much.
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io90
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Post by io90 on Sept 4, 2022 11:35:22 GMT
I am not going to say many things. I am an AP and my ex is an FA. Je broke up with me 10 days ago and honestly he did not seem particularly happy. He was pressured, he has got serious traumas, he was vulnerable once again (so I know that he feels things towards me) and he just sabotaged everything (as he does usually in his relationships) by saying there is no spark anymore and that for him the duration of the relationship is as long as the spark’s duration.
We remain friends. I know he will return. So far no contact fro either side.
I think I might be a particular case since I am working on myself for years. But most of the time the pain is unbearable. It’s a perpetual self guilt. He said we both made mistakes but he tended to put most of the blame on me. And you know what? I know that’s not true but I struggle to actually realize and digest it.
Anyway. You will heal. Ups and downs will be there. But you will heal. Trust me. The first boy I fell in love with was also an FA/narcissist and a bad one. I had to be literally hospitalized when he rejected me eventually. He apologized, I welcomed him, he hurt me again. And again. And then I was unavailable. And he still chases after me. Almost 10 years now.
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Post by duklaprague on Nov 18, 2022 9:39:43 GMT
I can relate to the OP quite a lot. I am probably AP. Just broke up with an FA (posted the story elsewhere). She ended it pretty much out of the blue after three wonderful years. She used to say similar things, about how she always lit up around me, felt on fire next to me, no-one had touched her the way I touched, that I really ‘got’ her etc.
And she too has been giving confusing mixed messages about staying friends. At first she said she wanted us to go back to being friends. But as we had never really had a ‘friend’ stage (we met online - not dating stuff), and after some chat which got more flirty, we ended up having sex the first time we met, and getting together after that.
I asked her if she meant as in purely platonic, or maybe FWB, ie without The Feels. She said she didn’t know what she meant. The last time I saw her she said that it needed to at least feel final so that she didn’t feel any pressure to contact me by a set date. And when I left she just said that she “probably won’t be in touch for a while”. This is now day 21 of no contact.
I kinda get that we all need to do work on ourselves etc, but sometimes why can’t it just be that we miss someone/something because it/they were really great?
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 21, 2022 3:15:18 GMT
I can relate to the OP quite a lot. I am probably AP. Just broke up with an FA (posted the story elsewhere). She ended it pretty much out of the blue after three wonderful years. She used to say similar things, about how she always lit up around me, felt on fire next to me, no-one had touched her the way I touched, that I really ‘got’ her etc. And she too has been giving confusing mixed messages about staying friends. At first she said she wanted us to go back to being friends. But as we had never really had a ‘friend’ stage (we met online - not dating stuff), and after some chat which got more flirty, we ended up having sex the first time we met, and getting together after that. I asked her if she meant as in purely platonic, or maybe FWB, ie without The Feels. She said she didn’t know what she meant. The last time I saw her she said that it needed to at least feel final so that she didn’t feel any pressure to contact me by a set date. And when I left she just said that she “probably won’t be in touch for a while”. This is now day 21 of no contact. I kinda get that we all need to do work on ourselves etc, but sometimes why can’t it just be that we miss someone/something because it/they were really great? It could….except….and let’s be honest here….if she was that great, she would not have given mixed signals or made the friendship strictly about her needs…or, kept you in the dark about when she would contact you. The issue with an AP mindset is that it tends to hold onto things that were fantastic and sweep under the rug those things that don’t fit that fantastic image. As my therapist would say…an AP falls in love with a fantasy construct of a person, not the actual person.
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lj
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Post by lj on Nov 21, 2022 22:32:43 GMT
More so then anyone can ever imagine. The more yesrs together the worse. I fear it is not repairable , the damage done.
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Post by duklaprague on Nov 27, 2022 13:08:27 GMT
I can relate to the OP quite a lot. I am probably AP. Just broke up with an FA (posted the story elsewhere). She ended it pretty much out of the blue after three wonderful years. She used to say similar things, about how she always lit up around me, felt on fire next to me, no-one had touched her the way I touched, that I really ‘got’ her etc. And she too has been giving confusing mixed messages about staying friends. At first she said she wanted us to go back to being friends. But as we had never really had a ‘friend’ stage (we met online - not dating stuff), and after some chat which got more flirty, we ended up having sex the first time we met, and getting together after that. I asked her if she meant as in purely platonic, or maybe FWB, ie without The Feels. She said she didn’t know what she meant. The last time I saw her she said that it needed to at least feel final so that she didn’t feel any pressure to contact me by a set date. And when I left she just said that she “probably won’t be in touch for a while”. This is now day 21 of no contact. I kinda get that we all need to do work on ourselves etc, but sometimes why can’t it just be that we miss someone/something because it/they were really great? It could….except….and let’s be honest here….if she was that great, she would not have given mixed signals or made the friendship strictly about her needs…or, kept you in the dark about when she would contact you. The issue with an AP mindset is that it tends to hold onto things that were fantastic and sweep under the rug those things that don’t fit that fantastic image. As my therapist would say…an AP falls in love with a fantasy construct of a person, not the actual person. I think the problem was that some of this stuff was hidden from plain sight. We met just before the pandemic, so essentially lived in our own wee bubble. We lived 40mins apart, and she has two young daughters, and a PITA ex that she still had to rely on for childcare support. She also has anxiety. So for example, I got that she sometimes might be a bit quiet for a few days if there was a lot going on. But maybe the Penny has only dropped more recently that part of that was having space from me, perhaps after a really great weekend together. But in many ways it absolutely was great. We got on great from the start, we’re completely comfortable around each other, made each other laugh a lot, both seemed to really get each other, both agreed it was the best sex we’d ever had with anyone… I get that it turns out that’s not enough sometimes, but it was a lot of ticked boxes, and whatever else I will always have great memories of this relationship.
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 27, 2022 13:27:35 GMT
It could….except….and let’s be honest here….if she was that great, she would not have given mixed signals or made the friendship strictly about her needs…or, kept you in the dark about when she would contact you. The issue with an AP mindset is that it tends to hold onto things that were fantastic and sweep under the rug those things that don’t fit that fantastic image. As my therapist would say…an AP falls in love with a fantasy construct of a person, not the actual person. I think the problem was that some of this stuff was hidden from plain sight. We met just before the pandemic, so essentially lived in our own wee bubble. We lived 40mins apart, and she has two young daughters, and a PITA ex that she still had to rely on for childcare support. She also has anxiety. So for example, I got that she sometimes might be a bit quiet for a few days if there was a lot going on. But maybe the Penny has only dropped more recently that part of that was having space from me, perhaps after a really great weekend together. But in many ways it absolutely was great. We got on great from the start, we’re completely comfortable around each other, made each other laugh a lot, both seemed to really get each other, both agreed it was the best sex we’d ever had with anyone… I get that it turns out that’s not enough sometimes, but it was a lot of ticked boxes, and whatever else I will always have great memories of this relationship. My personal experience is that doubts are present for a while but are not disclosed out of fear….which means that the “end” does appear as a bit of a surprise. Someone who is secure would be honest the entire relationship, so nothing ends up a “surprise”. What I suggest is that you write down all the boxes she ticked off so that you can look for those in a new partner.
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Post by duklaprague on Nov 27, 2022 15:18:18 GMT
I think the problem was that some of this stuff was hidden from plain sight. We met just before the pandemic, so essentially lived in our own wee bubble. We lived 40mins apart, and she has two young daughters, and a PITA ex that she still had to rely on for childcare support. She also has anxiety. So for example, I got that she sometimes might be a bit quiet for a few days if there was a lot going on. But maybe the Penny has only dropped more recently that part of that was having space from me, perhaps after a really great weekend together. But in many ways it absolutely was great. We got on great from the start, we’re completely comfortable around each other, made each other laugh a lot, both seemed to really get each other, both agreed it was the best sex we’d ever had with anyone… I get that it turns out that’s not enough sometimes, but it was a lot of ticked boxes, and whatever else I will always have great memories of this relationship. My personal experience is that doubts are present for a while but are not disclosed out of fear….which means that the “end” does appear as a bit of a surprise. Someone who is secure would be honest the entire relationship, so nothing ends up a “surprise”. What I suggest is that you write down all the boxes she ticked off so that you can look for those in a new partner. Yeah, this goes back to September really. In August she was home visiting family for a month, and we were missing each other a lot. September just had a bunch of stuff I won’t go into (but was real and genuine) which just ranked up her anxiety and sense of being overwhelmed. We’ve never needed to message each other every day (so I don’t think junk I am too bad on the Anxious Preoccupied side), but she was unusually quiet for about four weeks. I sent the odd supportive message and something about looking forward to seeing her soon. That was enough for her to start to feel guilty which was probably the start of the end in her mind. I think I just need to go through the end of a period of no contact, message her if I don’t hear from her by the end of next week, and see if that at least brings some closure one way or the other.
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 27, 2022 16:10:39 GMT
My personal experience is that doubts are present for a while but are not disclosed out of fear….which means that the “end” does appear as a bit of a surprise. Someone who is secure would be honest the entire relationship, so nothing ends up a “surprise”. What I suggest is that you write down all the boxes she ticked off so that you can look for those in a new partner. Yeah, this goes back to September really. In August she was home visiting family for a month, and we were missing each other a lot. September just had a bunch of stuff I won’t go into (but was real and genuine) which just ranked up her anxiety and sense of being overwhelmed. We’ve never needed to message each other every day (so I don’t think junk I am too bad on the Anxious Preoccupied side), but she was unusually quiet for about four weeks. I sent the odd supportive message and something about looking forward to seeing her soon. That was enough for her to start to feel guilty which was probably the start of the end in her mind. I think I just need to go through the end of a period of no contact, message her if I don’t hear from her by the end of next week, and see if that at least brings some closure one way or the other. I would not recommend mind reading what you don’t know since you never discussed it with her. I have found that contact does not lead to closure….at least in my case…there has always been a hope of rekindling things. I would suggest talking to your therapist about your plan to send a message and see what he/she thinks.
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Post by duklaprague on Nov 27, 2022 16:34:38 GMT
Yeah, this goes back to September really. In August she was home visiting family for a month, and we were missing each other a lot. September just had a bunch of stuff I won’t go into (but was real and genuine) which just ranked up her anxiety and sense of being overwhelmed. We’ve never needed to message each other every day (so I don’t think junk I am too bad on the Anxious Preoccupied side), but she was unusually quiet for about four weeks. I sent the odd supportive message and something about looking forward to seeing her soon. That was enough for her to start to feel guilty which was probably the start of the end in her mind. I think I just need to go through the end of a period of no contact, message her if I don’t hear from her by the end of next week, and see if that at least brings some closure one way or the other. I would not recommend mind reading what you don’t know since you never discussed it with her. I have found that contact does not lead to closure….at least in my case…there has always been a hope of rekindling things. I would suggest talking to your therapist about your plan to send a message and see what he/she thinks. We did discuss some of this stuff. She messaged me in September in reply to a message from me. She mentioned stuff that was going on which was making her anxious and feel overwhelmed, and said that when she was feeling overwhelmed she didn’t communicate much. And we had a pretty good talk face to face at hers at the end of October. I mentioned that I had realised that supportive messages were counter productive, and that I understood now that they just make me another thing she need to give attention to when she is already at capacity. But yes, of course there is a hope of rekindling things.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 27, 2022 19:40:15 GMT
Something it took me a long time to learn when I was still AP: it doesn't matter how good the good times are in a relationship or how many boxes the other person checks off if they cannot also get through the bad times with you. How you, as a couple, handle stress together (either stress on only one or both of you), resolve conflict, fight, argue, and get through tough times is often more important than how well you feel you connect when enjoying the good times together. This is because a healthy, enduring, and sustainable relationship needs a foundation of trust and working together as a team. If your partner responds to stress by turning away from you or withdrawing totally, it can very well have absolutely nothing to do with you and not be your fault. But it does mean it's a good-times-only relationship that on some level lacks trust, communication, intimacy, and vulnerability. Life will always have stress and problems, and she's now shown you how she will leave you whenever any come up. This is very important information for you to have. You can look back on the relationship fondly and keep the good memories while having grace for yourself: you deserve a partner who will tackle life's good times and bad times together with you without giving you reason to worry that one thing going wrong is the end.
Relationships should be stable, but if one or both partners do not have the capacity to stay together when unrelated stress and issues are not going as expected and run off instead, then they're not ready to be a good, mature partner. The closure is understanding the big picture, that good times can be good but the person is still a bad match, and letting them go with love so you can be emotionally available and open to surround yourself with supportive people who make your life fuller without emotionally draining you. The closure is you being able to fully process your emotions on your own, and to some extent that may look like going through the 5 stages of grief... but needing to experience all of them until you reach acceptance.
That doesn't mean dating again before you're ready or have mourned the relationship, it means leaning into your support network of friends and family while reflecting on yourself. What kind of partner are you looking for? Are you attracted to emotionally available people or do you tend to go for unavailable or unstable people where the relationship only works some of the time instead of all the time? Are there gaps on your end that you may need to attend to, such as having an insecure attachment style yourself? Do you have a fear of abandonment or engulfment that gets in the way of building healthy romantic partnerships? Do romantic relationships seem to recreate and bring up older dynamics you've experience with other family members, such as parents in your childhood? This is where the closure on any past, current, and future relationships that don't quite work and leave you confused or in pain is eventually is found, not through other people.
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