|
|
Post by introvert on Sept 6, 2022 13:59:49 GMT
I think it could be helpful to make a list of behaviors associated with your attachment INSECURITY and do self checks when you are in a spin.
Ruminating, check!
Then make a list of associated solution behaviors, recommended healthy alternatives.
So then you don't have to figure out what to do, or what's healthy in the moment... you have a plan that's based on the experience of those who have gone before.
You might not always recognize healthy but you can train yourself to recognize unhealthy. That can get you there.
|
|
|
|
Post by introvert on Sept 6, 2022 14:04:50 GMT
That's how I gradually transformed, along with other work to address my deep fears and narrative.
So if I noticed myself shutting down, as soon as I could I made sure to do the opposite and reach out. Literally just go lay down by my boyfriend and let his nervous system regulate me while he held me. Sometimes I almost gagged it felt like when I was speaking instead of remaining silent. Made myself do the opposite of my inclination. It is real work to become vulnerable like that. the anxious process is a bit different but still will entail doing some things opposite to what your impulse is.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Sept 6, 2022 17:38:16 GMT
This made me curious because internet is filled with stories about how having a secure partner helps DA's and FA's navigate their own attachment styles. I think there's some truth to it because I'm FA and what helped me the most in therapy is the connection I had with my therapist. Her being consistent, reliable and so on. Again, as everyone is saying, having a secure romantic partner definitely helps because they won't trigger you extra externally, giving you much more space to do your own individual work to earn secure. But it does not in itself make the difference, it just decreases the triggers you're going to deal with in navigating the relationship, as the triggers you'll face will be you triggering yourself due to either your fear of abandonment or your fear of engulfment being activated. It is not the same as the therapy relationship. Therapy is 100% supposed to help model a secure attachment for you, but is not going to trigger the same wounds as a romantic attachment figure will. A romantic attachment figure should also never be put in a therapist-type role in your life. So again, having a secure romantic partner comes with benefits and it is a good aspiration for yourself to want become more secure no matter what anyone else is doing around you (trying to get more secure for someone else instead of for yourself doesn't work), but primarily the benefit is not getting triggered extra and not getting pulled into a mutually insecure dynamic of patterned dysfunction that is inhibiting personal growth. Reconditioning your nervous system is part of the larger process, which may mean learning to recognize and control your triggers both anxious (fear of abandonment overwhelm) and avoidant (fear of engulfment shutdown). CBT exercises that you can get from a therapist or perhaps online can help you learn how to pause rumination, as can reminding yourself that feeling negative, abandoned, a need to reconnect, catastrophizing-- it all isn't true and a trick your brain and body are playing on you to stay connected to someone unhealthy who can't meet your needs because it was necessary for you to do that to survive childhood. And that you need to wait for it to pass and then figure out how to process and navigate whatever caused it to happen. Ultimately, anxious triggering is an inability to emotionally regulate yourself, and you're looking to other people and external sources to do it for you. It is a form of abandoning yourself. You need to build up a solid sense of identity and have enough compassion for yourself to learn to trust yourself to get through it and break out of your patterns. In addition to CBT, talk therapy can help as you need to understand your traumatic past and rewrite your narrative for yourself to process and heal. If none of that seems to be helping, you can also try SE somatic experience therapy, which is a different approach that has seemed helpful to people on this board. Having BPD adds additional layers that are outside my expertise. I do agree that if you don't know what security looks like or what a secure attachment style even means, start reading about it. Look up secure attachment style online, read the secure section of this forum. Other good online resources for trying to heal and earn security are Thais Gibson's free videos, and anne12 has put many tips and tricks and healing exercises together for all the attachment styles: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1073/healing-disorganized-attatchment-chock-traumajebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1072/healing-anxious-ambivalent-attatchment-tricks |
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Sept 7, 2022 7:18:16 GMT
That last paragraph there is you ruminating and has no bearing on reality. The thing to focus on is self awareness that you are ruminating instead of beating the dead horse you are ruminating about, trying to figure out if the lie is true. It's a lie, the ruminating is the problem here. I know, you're absolutely right. I know in the end it doesn't matter because my needs weren't met and that in itself should have been enough. I've always had difficulties trying to find out if what I need is 'normal' or is it my anxiety speaking, because so many people called me needy and dependant. I still barely know what 'normal' is, I always question myself even after a shit ton of therapy, which is probably one of the reasons why I'm prone to manipulation. Then I question myself even more which brought me here. Sometimes I try to imagine what a secure person would do in certain situations but then I realize I really have no f*cking clue lol. I'm on it. Work in progress. I completely understand the sentiment of "are my needs reasonable?" As my counsellor would say "this is your BPD talking". You are allowed to take up space. It can be so frustrating to do all this work and still feel lost. You come across as a very grounded person who has done a lot of work on yourself and I hope you are proud of that. www.instagram.com/reel/CiLM1HIMhDo/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link I like this video about having needs. |
|
|
|
Post by iz42 on Sept 10, 2022 17:31:15 GMT
I know, you're absolutely right. I know in the end it doesn't matter because my needs weren't met and that in itself should have been enough. I've always had difficulties trying to find out if what I need is 'normal' or is it my anxiety speaking, because so many people called me needy and dependant. I still barely know what 'normal' is, I always question myself even after a shit ton of therapy, which is probably one of the reasons why I'm prone to manipulation. Then I question myself even more which brought me here. Sometimes I try to imagine what a secure person would do in certain situations but then I realize I really have no f*cking clue lol. I'm on it. Work in progress. I completely understand the sentiment of "are my needs reasonable?" As my counsellor would say "this is your BPD talking". You are allowed to take up space. It can be so frustrating to do all this work and still feel lost. You come across as a very grounded person who has done a lot of work on yourself and I hope you are proud of that. www.instagram.com/reel/CiLM1HIMhDo/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link I like this video about having needs. I relate to this too. I think one of the biggest challenges for me with moving from AP to secure is figuring out when I should be speaking up to express my needs/asking for reassurance and when I should be validating myself and soothing myself. It's a balance, and I'm definitely better able to self-soothe than I used to be. What's often hard for me is to assess when it's appropriate to tell my partner that I'm struggling. Figuring this out in the moment when I'm triggered is difficult. Usually I feel the impulse to deal with everything myself and in therapy rather than letting my him know what's going on. Maybe this means I've overcorrected and moved towards avoidant, I'm not sure. I don't want to be demanding, so my impulse is to try to deal with things myself. Taking time and space does help me figure out what's really going on underneath the trigger, but it also means that I'm not really being vulnerable with him. I have actively worked on advocating for myself and my needs, but it still feels pretty unnatural and uncomfortable at times. The last time I was triggered, I tried to let him know gently that I was feeling insecure because of a conversation that we had. It was a big step for me to speak up and tell him what I needed in those kinds of moments, but it made him very defensive. I'm trying to accept the fact that his reaction didn't mean I did the wrong thing by telling him what was going on. I have to be mindful of his triggers, but I still have to advocate for myself no matter what his reaction is. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Sept 10, 2022 19:27:54 GMT
It's also okay to tell someone you're struggling without expecting them to do anything about it, and (depending on what the issue is) even without them stepping up to do anything about it. Especially if you're just telling them and not asking them to do anything. Not every statement of needs is a request, and sometimes just sharing that you're struggling with something without expectation will result in a conversation and the other person helping in ways you hadn't thought of. It's easier to navigate if no one is triggered, and also easier to see what's "healthy" if the other person is secure, but I find that just going through the exercise of figuring out how to communicate your needs or head space is useful even if the other person responds in an insecure or defensive way (though if you know they aren't secure, it helps to know to depersonalize their response going into it). And in regards to it being okay if they don't do anything in response, there is something to be said for being able to trust someone at their word and not overreaching to try to do something for them if they didn't ask.
|
|
|
|
Post by iz42 on Sept 10, 2022 20:31:05 GMT
In the situation I described above, we were about to leave to go on an important trip where I was meeting some of his family members for the first time. The time pressure combined with the stress of the upcoming trip created a difficult situation. It was the first time that I saw his defensiveness as a projection that had nothing to do with me. And while it was still upsetting to have him act out and not be able to hear what I was saying, I stood my ground rather than freezing or fawning. In the past I would have absorbed his anger and taken it on as my responsibility. That alone feels like a big shift. I don’t have a lot of tolerance for him acting this way when I am genuinely wanting to share my experience because it’s so difficult to push past the discomfort of doing that in the first place. When I come to him to share how I’m feeling in a non-blaming way and he reacts with anger, I start to shut down. In the future what I hope he will do in those moments is to tell me that he’s feeling defensive and needs time to process. And I also hope we can get to a place as you're saying alexandra where we are both able to share what's going on just for its own sake and not because we necessarily need the other person to do something about it. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Sept 10, 2022 20:58:34 GMT
iz42, right. I'm not saying you need to be there yet. I'm just saying it's okay to share your needs or feelings without it making you "needy." Especially since not every share is also a request of someone else (besides to listen).
|
|
|
|
Post by introvert on Sept 11, 2022 14:21:56 GMT
I completely understand the sentiment of "are my needs reasonable?" As my counsellor would say "this is your BPD talking". You are allowed to take up space. It can be so frustrating to do all this work and still feel lost. You come across as a very grounded person who has done a lot of work on yourself and I hope you are proud of that. www.instagram.com/reel/CiLM1HIMhDo/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link I like this video about having needs. I relate to this too. I think one of the biggest challenges for me with moving from AP to secure is figuring out when I should be speaking up to express my needs/asking for reassurance and when I should be validating myself and soothing myself. It's a balance, and I'm definitely better able to self-soothe than I used to be. What's often hard for me is to assess when it's appropriate to tell my partner that I'm struggling. Figuring this out in the moment when I'm triggered is difficult. Usually I feel the impulse to deal with everything myself and in therapy rather than letting my him know what's going on. Maybe this means I've overcorrected and moved towards avoidant, I'm not sure. I don't want to be demanding, so my impulse is to try to deal with things myself. Taking time and space does help me figure out what's really going on underneath the trigger, but it also means that I'm not really being vulnerable with him. I have actively worked on advocating for myself and my needs, but it still feels pretty unnatural and uncomfortable at times. The last time I was triggered, I tried to let him know gently that I was feeling insecure because of a conversation that we had. It was a big step for me to speak up and tell him what I needed in those kinds of moments, but it made him very defensive. I'm trying to accept the fact that his reaction didn't mean I did the wrong thing by telling him what was going on. I have to be mindful of his triggers, but I still have to advocate for myself no matter what his reaction is. As an avoidant I have struggled to let my partner know what is going on with me but the motivation is different... I don't have the concern about being demanding or too much necessarily; it's that self soothing and closing the door to deal by myself is the unquestioned normal for most of my life, and I don't trust another person to look out for me. Asking for help means putting my well-being in someone else's hands and that's not gone well in my history. So similar behaviors with different underlying motivations and stories. I'm sorry he didn't react well when you shared your insecurity. I don't think it's a sign you shouldn't have brought it up. My partner has ADHD and rejection sensitive dysphoria, so I have had yo be mindful of how to bring up things that might stimulate a defensive response in him. Usually if I begin by saying something like "I need your help with something please" then describe my own burden and let him know what he can do to help me, he can see Im not criticizing him I'm actually suffering and needing a hand- he has an opportunity to be my helper which is what he wants to be- he doesn't want to be my tormentor. Insecure dynamics can be touchy and you have to really be mindful about the vulnerabilities of each partner. My partner carries some defensiveness and shame around being "wrong" and "not good enough" around his traits as someone with undiagnosed adhd. Just thought it might be helpful to share that. Good job on continuing to work through it, it's complicated stuff! |
|
|
|
Post by iz42 on Sept 12, 2022 5:56:20 GMT
I relate to this too. I think one of the biggest challenges for me with moving from AP to secure is figuring out when I should be speaking up to express my needs/asking for reassurance and when I should be validating myself and soothing myself. It's a balance, and I'm definitely better able to self-soothe than I used to be. What's often hard for me is to assess when it's appropriate to tell my partner that I'm struggling. Figuring this out in the moment when I'm triggered is difficult. Usually I feel the impulse to deal with everything myself and in therapy rather than letting my him know what's going on. Maybe this means I've overcorrected and moved towards avoidant, I'm not sure. I don't want to be demanding, so my impulse is to try to deal with things myself. Taking time and space does help me figure out what's really going on underneath the trigger, but it also means that I'm not really being vulnerable with him. I have actively worked on advocating for myself and my needs, but it still feels pretty unnatural and uncomfortable at times. The last time I was triggered, I tried to let him know gently that I was feeling insecure because of a conversation that we had. It was a big step for me to speak up and tell him what I needed in those kinds of moments, but it made him very defensive. I'm trying to accept the fact that his reaction didn't mean I did the wrong thing by telling him what was going on. I have to be mindful of his triggers, but I still have to advocate for myself no matter what his reaction is. As an avoidant I have struggled to let my partner know what is going on with me but the motivation is different... I don't have the concern about being demanding or too much necessarily; it's that self soothing and closing the door to deal by myself is the unquestioned normal for most of my life, and I don't trust another person to look out for me. Asking for help means putting my well-being in someone else's hands and that's not gone well in my history. So similar behaviors with different underlying motivations and stories. I'm sorry he didn't react well when you shared your insecurity. I don't think it's a sign you shouldn't have brought it up. My partner has ADHD and rejection sensitive dysphoria, so I have had yo be mindful of how to bring up things that might stimulate a defensive response in him. Usually if I begin by saying something like "I need your help with something please" then describe my own burden and let him know what he can do to help me, he can see Im not criticizing him I'm actually suffering and needing a hand- he has an opportunity to be my helper which is what he wants to be- he doesn't want to be my tormentor. Insecure dynamics can be touchy and you have to really be mindful about the vulnerabilities of each partner. My partner carries some defensiveness and shame around being "wrong" and "not good enough" around his traits as someone with undiagnosed adhd. Just thought it might be helpful to share that. Good job on continuing to work through it, it's complicated stuff! That was super helpful - thanks for sharing! My boyfriend and I both have ADHD so it's definitely relevant. I like the idea of asking for his help as a way of approaching him. I've noticed that he carries a lot of shame about his avoidant tendencies, and if that shame surfaces when I bring up an issue I'm having, he gets triggered. There is work he will need to do on his own to sort that out, but I can try to be more mindful of it. The recent experience I described was painful, but we talked through it and I do think we will learn from it moving forward. The main thing I learned is that while I tend to go into freeze or fawn during conflict, he has a tendency to go into fight mode very quickly. When he gets dysregulated in that way there is really nothing I can do except to stop the conversation and give him time to calm down. He has never yelled at me or said anything really hurtful - he just gets exasperated and makes it clear that he is at a loss for how to address the situation. It upsets me when he gets frustrated because it feels like he's no longer willing to work together to solve the issue. If we're both more aware that he is reaching that stage of dysregulation, we can react differently. I am trying to move toward a "healthy fight" mode where I am more assertive and I stay engaged during conflict instead of freezing (that assertiveness includes being willing to be honest/vulnerable with him even when I'm not sure how he will react). And he probably needs to work on "healthy freeze" where he slows down and takes a time out instead of reacting defensively. This is really tough stuff but it feels useful and important. |
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Sept 12, 2022 11:48:58 GMT
Does anyone have any tips on how to be more compassionate towards others, especially when triggered, without losing sight of my own boundaries? How to let go with love, without feeling the need to change others? I don't ever want to go through this again :-( I feel horrible and don't know what to do.
The dealbreaker for me was when he said he no longer had romantic feelings for me (after months of acting more and more distant) but didn't know why and tried to manipulate me into staying with him anyway. Sometimes he threatened to breakup with me when he felt stressed (usually work related) and for a while I tried to give him the space he needed, but because of the non-constructive way of communicating I felt more and more unsafe. He was stunned when I said I started to feel anxious and set boundaries. He apologized and I could tell he felt really guilty, but he didn't actually do anything to change. It got worse. Not sure why but I think one of the reasons is because I pressured him to get professional help (I regret this a lot). Eventually I broke up with him. After a week of NC he sent me an email, in which he wrote that he's always been optimistic and that he always believed in us. A complete mindf*ck, because in my experience he barely gave me the impression that he wanted to be in this relationship, which is why I broke up with him.
To be honest I still feel a bit hurt, but I want to acknowledge that I hurt him too by pressuring him and expecting him to be someone he's not. Im the end it's all about having different needs without being right or wrong. He never said this directly but I'd totally understand it if I gave him the idea that he wasn't good enough. I genuinely want to take responsibility for that and to let him know that I'm sorry for hurting him. I think I just want to be able to leave with compassion, without causing too much harm. Since he's really sensitive I probably hurt him a lot. What do you guys think? Send him a letter?
|
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Sept 12, 2022 14:24:36 GMT
So, you’re leaning anxious and he’s leaning avoidant. It’s the same dance. If you’re FA, how would you feel if the boot was on the other foot? If the roles were reversed? I have been on both sides, and I’ve envied the stability of both AP and DA.
There’s no way of doing what you’re wanting to do and staying as you are. It’s not possible. Pain is the touchstone of spiritual progress, and I don’t think there’s too much more spiritual that movement within one’s self. It’s not possible to be insecurely attached and not feel that stuff in that way.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Sept 12, 2022 17:01:02 GMT
I don't think you need to send him a letter right now. You're making a lot of assumptions about how he felt, and neither of you are in an emotionally stable place right now because you're both triggered. Sending a letter prolongs the connection without risking in person communication, which is why so many insecure styled people want to do it. You don't need to reconnect with him right now.
Write the letter to collect your thoughts, and then sit on it and don't send it. You need some more time to work on yourself and shift your perspective, usually at least 3 months after a breakup, and he's actually not a part of that process. You can't do anything for him right now since he's dealing with his own stuff. But you don't need to do anything right now either and can apologize at a later date when you're both less reactive and in less pain and better equipped to handle it.
The trick about being compassionate, is it truly starts with being compassionate towards yourself first, and starting to heal. It's not about him right now, although it feels that way because you have anxiety and pain and said yourself you don't know what to do... which means you're doing the normal FA thing of looking outward for relief. Go inward, keep up with your therapy, journal, it may sound trite but it is all important.
|
|
