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Post by guineamom on Jul 1, 2023 16:40:18 GMT
Long time lurker, first time poster. This forum has helped me a lot so I figured I'd give it a shot.
Long story short, my FA boyfriend dumped me for the second time but I can't get rid of the feeling he is going to come back again. My therapist seems to think so too and apparently FAs tend to do that. I would love to take him back but I know I can't... because what a mindfuck that was! I'm a healed DA but that guy made me question reality with his mixed signals. I guess the purpose of my post is to 1) confirm that I'm not crazy and 2) be prepared in the event of a comeback.
We met a year ago and started as fwb since neither of us wanted a relationship at the time. We saw each other almost every weekend and over the months, we grew closer and connected at a deep level (deep conversations, opening up about our traumas, that kind of stuff). He was still saying that he did not want a relationship, that he would end up hurting me and all the textbook stuff, including mixed signals. All I said was that I didn't want to be in a relationship either. Around the 6 month mark, he admitted he had feelings for me while still being reluctant to commit but eventually, he asked for a relationship but wasn't sure. I went in saying we'll see where it goes. Boom, one week later he breaks up telling me he doesn't see a future, he compared me to his phantom ex and said he is not in love with me. I accepted the breakup and simply say I wish he had given us a chance.
10 days of no contact later, he comes back to apologize and explains that he freaked out. I tell him I understand and decide to take it slow because I'm cautious. The next 5 months are great. He wants to see me a lot, I meet all his friends and his siblings. He tells me he loves me, I'm amazing, he loves having me around. We are talking about introducing eachother to our parents, about marriage, kids, vacations... We had a few ups and downs but we handled them very well (his words). Then comes May and its many long weekends. He starts to deactivate. I'm not sure why but we did spend more time together than usual. His beloved brother moved back to town. He wants to enjoy the summer with his friends but he can't really make plans with them because he is broke. Someone asked him how long we had been together. His bitmrthday? It could be anything but it doesn't matter at this point he feels smothered by me because of course, eventually I try to ask him what's up and calmly explain that I need a little reassurance (big mistake I guess).
He pulled away for 2-3 weeks before dumping me again. During that time, he was hot and cold but told me he loves me, that we aren't going to breakup, initiated some dates but it still happened. The reason for the second breakup are basically the same as for the 1st one: "I never saw a future", "we said we will see and we saw", "I love you but was never in love with you", "I'm not ready for a relationship", "I never feel like spending time with you, it shouldn't be that way", "when I was with my ex, I wanted to see her all the time", "I'm not happy and you will not be happy either", "he came back the 1st time because he missed me"... and it goes on.
After the breakup, he was leaning anxious so he stalked my stories, reached out telling me he misses me and even bootycalled me. That messed up with my head big time so I cornered him and asked if he wants space or if he wants me out of his life. He couldn't answer. All I got was "why does it matter we are broken up" and the same stuff as during the breakup. I'm in no contact again since 7 days. The breakup was 17 days ago. I was a secure partner throughout the whole thing but maybe that makes me too boring?
I don't deal well with uncertainty so what do you guys think?
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Post by alexandra on Jul 1, 2023 17:26:56 GMT
I'm sorry you're hurting from a breakup, they are never fun. There isn't much uncertainty here, actually. He told you exactly who he is the entire time you've known him and what he would do, and he's behaved in kind. So yes, he probably will come back after he's had enough space (or maybe he won't, that's FA for you), but you already know the outcome. That means the only thing for you to really do is block him until you've processed the breakup and mourned the relationship and moved on to the extent that if he did come back you wouldn't want a relationship anymore, beyond perhaps friendship, and it won't mess with your feelings to hear from him or be in touch. The time for that isn't right now.
FA, and insecures generally, have bad boundaries. That means you need to prioritize your boundaries and make sure you're keeping ones that are healthy for you. FA who are prone to coming back will come back as many times as you'll allow (I've been there, done that, on the receiving end), which is why you prioritizing your own boundaries is so important in these situations. The bigger picture is, you already know you were on a path to healing before you met him, and now he pushes you anxious. Which I imagine from your post is not the kind of person you want to be, since it means you're going backwards in a way. That means he's not a good fit for you and your needs and your life and lifestyle goals. You being a secure partner to him doesn't matter, since this is his set of issues in spite of whatever it is you do (again, he's told you that himself over the time you've known him). It doesn't matter if he decided your consistency was boring, again, that's not the underlying problem and is not an indication of anything other than this isn't actually the type of relationship you want since you can't fully be yourself without worrying about how he's conditionally perceiving you.
Getting over inconsistent and hot/cold situations takes some time. Give yourself grace, and space, to let your nervous system recover from this dynamic. With some time, your perspective will likely shift because it sounds like you don't want to get jerked around, but you know that's what will continue to happen if you engage in this. I only broke on again off again insecure cycles like this through long periods of no contact which allowed healing, though I told my ex when I was doing this to not blind side him because it wasn't personal and didn't mean I didn't care for him. He wasn't giving me the space I needed to heal and wasn't going to because he was largely unaware of his own issues so certainly couldn't do what was best for me since he couldn't even do what was best for himself. Again, it wasn't intentional or malicious or because he didn't care, he just deactivated and didn't understand himself and wasn't addressing his FA stuff, so I needed to go my own way to stop hurting and move past it without worrying about what he was going to do.
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Post by mrob on Jul 2, 2023 2:12:09 GMT
When I experienced similar from your end and realised I didn’t want it anymore; that the behaviour sent me off balance and made me feel yuck, I knew I’d made progress. I gave one person four times before declaring enough. Like you, I could see the pattern, and they couldn’t. I made a decision for my own sanity.
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Post by guineamom on Jul 4, 2023 8:43:08 GMT
Thanks both of you. You are absolutely right but damn it's hard. I'm just unable to let go of the hope that he circles back. It's sick!
I wish he would just close the door instead of having to do it myself.
He leaned anxious during the weekend, probably wondering if I might meet another man or something. We texted yesterday and at some point I asked him if he would like to reconnect over coffee and I made it very clear that it was ok if he didn't want to. He was absolutely unable to give me a straight answer. Instead he asked if I thought it was smart, said it would be hard not to end up making out, admitted a part of him wants to see me but he doesn't want to hurt me and doesn't see how things would work out in the long run blablabla and it ended with a "we will see". That's truly fascinating. How can it be so hard to just say no?
I know it's typical but whyyyy be so cruel!? It takes one word! I spent the evening wondering if he's scared of his own feelings or if he's trying to let me down easy.
I envy people whose exes told them they never want to see them again. And I wish I knew nothing about AT. At least I could comfort myself by saying he's just an a-hole. I wouldn't have to break my own heart a second time for the sake of moving on.
I don't even know how to move on from this.
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Post by lovebunny on Jul 4, 2023 11:46:22 GMT
No contact. No coffee. Why do you want coffee with him? What do you think will have changed? What do you honestly think he'll say that'll make you feel better?
There's nothing there for you but pain and confusion.
Fearful avoidants can't say yes, and they can't say no. They want to keep you perpetually just at arm's length, but not too far.
Don't play the game. Take your ball and go home, work on yourself and your own healing and moving on.
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Post by guineamom on Jul 4, 2023 12:19:37 GMT
No contact. No coffee. Why do you want coffee with him? What do you think will have changed? What do you honestly think he'll say that'll make you feel better? There's nothing there for you but pain and confusion. Fearful avoidants can't say yes, and they can't say no. They want to keep you perpetually just at arm's length, but not too far. Don't play the game. Take your ball and go home, work on yourself and your own healing and moving on. Honestly? I want him to tell me it's over for good, because the vibe I'm picking up is that it's not. You're kind of confirming that. I'm so confused and hurt that it makes me regret all the work I have done. I had never been anxious before. It's the worst feeling ever. I wish I was my old DA self. It would have been easier. "Give people a chance, be vulnerable" my therapist said... I did and here's the result: another disapointment. I'm just so fucking tired. I just want to withdraw far, far away from other humans. |
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Post by mrob on Jul 4, 2023 14:00:46 GMT
I know this is hard, but knowing about AT actually lets you off the hook. It’s beneficial. Knowing you’re anxious and not stupid has to count for something? Knowing he’s an unaware FA, that is pointless continuing with, surely that has to count for something as well? You get to make the choice if it’s over, even if it’s only because of the futility. Love does but conquer all. This is the opportunity to use the work.
People act in patterns. Maybe this is where you need to be right now to see that. It’s really hard, but I assure you that once you’re at that point, you’ll never fully turn back. Only for very human short spurts, lol.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2023 14:47:02 GMT
Thanks both of you. You are absolutely right but damn it's hard. I'm just unable to let go of the hope that he circles back. It's sick! I wish he would just close the door instead of having to do it myself. He leaned anxious during the weekend, probably wondering if I might meet another man or something. We texted yesterday and at some point I asked him if he would like to reconnect over coffee and I made it very clear that it was ok if he didn't want to. He was absolutely unable to give me a straight answer. Instead he asked if I thought it was smart, said it would be hard not to end up making out, admitted a part of him wants to see me but he doesn't want to hurt me and doesn't see how things would work out in the long run blablabla and it ended with a "we will see". That's truly fascinating. How can it be so hard to just say no? I know it's typical but whyyyy be so cruel!? It takes one word! I spent the evening wondering if he's scared of his own feelings or if he's trying to let me down easy. I envy people whose exes told them they never want to see them again. And I wish I knew nothing about AT. At least I could comfort myself by saying he's just an a-hole. I wouldn't have to break my own heart a second time for the sake of moving on. I don't even know how to move on from this. "How can it be so hard to just say no?" Now you know why it can be so hard. Look, here's the thing. You don't have to do anything, let go of anything, you don't have to stop chasing the FA who broke up with you. This sounds counterintuitive, I know. I'm a former DA as well... I read and also experienced that you move out of DA , then through a phase of FA-ish... then secure but the old elements can remain to be triggered. You're just triggered into insecurity and you can ride it out. It sucks but eventually the FA treatment of you will disgust you and you will cut him off out of sheer disgust, or you will be so humiliated it would be mortifying to allow him one more inch with you. What I'm saying is, it gets easier as the insult of his behavior sinks deeper into your chest. You're not done til you're done. If you're not done, don't worry, there's more pain where this came from and you can drink your fill, eventually you will be done. In the meantime, balance the energy you're giving him with some energy for yourself. You can't remove all the negativity from your life right now, but day by day you can add some pure, beautiful positive. What are you going to do for yourself today, that is nurturing, brings you happiness, or serves your best self? |
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Post by guineamom on Jul 4, 2023 14:51:29 GMT
I know this is hard, but knowing about AT actually lets you off the hook. It’s beneficial. Knowing you’re anxious and not stupid has to count for something? Knowing he’s an unaware FA, that is pointless continuing with, surely that has to count for something as well? You get to make the choice if it’s over, even if it’s only because of the futility. Love does but conquer all. This is the opportunity to use the work. People act in patterns. Maybe this is where you need to be right now to see that. It’s really hard, but I assure you that once you’re at that point, you’ll never fully turn back. Only for very human short spurts, lol. Quite the opposite. Ignorance is bliss they say and the fact he is living his best life while I'm miserable proves it. For him, I'm just not "the one". Been there, done that, it's easy. I'm probably going to become the new phantom ex... lucky me. Knowing the breakup has nothing to do with me makes me feel powerless. It's not like I can own up for mistakes or anything. I'm just put in a spot where I have no other choice. Sure my ego is intact, but at the end of the day it's not my decision and it never will be. I do want him to cycle back so we can at least try to have the conversations. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2023 15:18:38 GMT
I know this is hard, but knowing about AT actually lets you off the hook. It’s beneficial. Knowing you’re anxious and not stupid has to count for something? Knowing he’s an unaware FA, that is pointless continuing with, surely that has to count for something as well? You get to make the choice if it’s over, even if it’s only because of the futility. Love does but conquer all. This is the opportunity to use the work. People act in patterns. Maybe this is where you need to be right now to see that. It’s really hard, but I assure you that once you’re at that point, you’ll never fully turn back. Only for very human short spurts, lol. Quite the opposite. Ignorance is bliss they say and the fact he is living his best life while I'm miserable proves it. For him, I'm just not "the one". Been there, done that, it's easy. I'm probably going to become the new phantom ex... lucky me. Knowing the breakup has nothing to do with me makes me feel powerless. It's not like I can own up for mistakes or anything. I'm just put in a spot where I have no other choice. Sure my ego is intact, but at the end of the day it's not my decision and it never will be. I do want him to cycle back so we can at least try to have the conversations. It sounds to me like you are not fully embracing your responsibility and choice in this from the beginning. I've said it before, it smacks hard but when you play stupid games you get stupid prizes. This started as FWB, not the secure way to go really... because this shitshow is often the result. Learn that, it's valuable information! He broke up with you, and your low-investment, low expectations self took him back. When you have low expectations for how someone would treat you, breakups are not the end point they should be. You goofed taking him back, now you know... but that was your choice. Your bar is still too low for a healthy relationship. Own that... you are choosing insecure dynamics and this is the price you pay. Stop acting like a victim because you aren't a victim, you are just being toxic right along side him. If you have DA roots you may appreciate the candor pointing you toward your own autonomy and responsibility in this. If you're feeling too anxious to access that you will feel like I hit you in the face with a boot. Either way, I am not trying to harm you I am simply pointing out the fact that you brought this on by engaging in a less than secure way, and you can bring it to a close when you are ready, do more work, and make progress. It took me a long time of experimenting with toxic relarionshits to figure it out, that's the process for all of us and for you too. I do wish you some clarity and some empowerment here. If you paint yourself as a victim here you WILL have a harder time, you will repeatedly be "victimized". You really do have a choice here, it's just not what your insecure, unhealthy side wants to do. That sucks but it's true, don't you think? |
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Post by alexandra on Jul 4, 2023 17:33:04 GMT
Whether or not he has an insecure attachment style has nothing to do with him also being an @sshole. He most certainly can be both at once! Insecure attachment is no excuse for bad behavior, it's just an explanation. Ignorance is not bliss because knowledge of patterns allows you to not start up something with an emotionally unhealthy person that will go no where in the future. However, if you are still emotionally unhealthy yourself, then you either won't recognize it early on or will try to ignore it and ignore your own needs, like happened here.
Putting so much on him to make a decision for you (especially when he's not capable, very likely a combination of getting punished by people close to him for trying to say no as a kid plus his disconnection from himself) is something to discuss with a therapist. You want to give away all your power and avoid responsibility for yourself, why? It should be the most empowering thing that you can decide to walk away towards something better and are not relying on someone else to live your life for you! Kids need to rely on adults, sure, but you're an adult, so there's something certainly there to explore in your own healing. Plus, letting others make decisions for you creates uncertainty, making you more unhappy! So none of this will be wasted work.
Your therapist telling you to give people a chance isn't bad advice, but were you told to specifically give this person a chance even though he wouldn't commit? Giving people who aren't emotionally safe or stable your vulnerability is a self-fulfilling prophesy (which, in addition to the dysfunctional dynamic feeling familiar and comfortable, is sometimes another reason why insecures choose to be vulnerable with them, they know they'll get a bad outcome). You trust and attach to someone you shouldn't, you recreate bad patterns you experienced earlier in life hoping something will change, and they instead prove you right so you continue to feel bad, closed off, and like you shouldn't trust others because they'll hurt you. This has everything to do with who you choose, and getting to the bottom of why you chose them is on the road to healing.
If your therapist instead told you this is a great guy, give him a chance, give him a chance, the entire time even with you describing all the red flags, then you need to find a different therapist.
If you live your life passively, trying to avoid taking responsibility for your decisions and wanting other people to make them for you, then you'll keep hurting because you are always deprioritizing yourself. So no wonder it hurts so much! The bliss wasn't coming from ignorance, it was temporarily kicking the can down the road as you kept suppressing your own needs and feelings until you couldn't.
Even if it hurts to do it now, again, go no contact with him or you're continuing to kick the can down and prolonge your own pain. It's okay for you to believe he's a jerk, FA or not. You're NOT powerless to make your own decisions to improve your life, which starts with disengaging from dead ends.
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Post by lovebunny on Jul 4, 2023 18:28:55 GMT
@introvert said:
"It sucks but eventually the FA treatment of you will disgust you and you will cut him off out of sheer disgust, or you will be so humiliated it would be mortifying to allow him one more inch with you."
This is sooooo darn true!!!!!
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tish
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Post by tish on Jul 6, 2023 14:43:08 GMT
As a recovered/recovering FA, my personal take on how your FA treated you was unkind. So, while he is FA and back and forth, he is also saying “I don’t see a future with you and I’m not in love with you.” That’s mean. I don’t know how drawn out your break ups were in the actual conversation and explanation and if you maybe begged or asked for explanations or whatever, but if he came out of the gate this way, saying these things…not good signs. So although it’s really easy for us to be confused by the attachment, it’s clear in my opinion this person wasn’t trying to just part and protect you from pain. Which I hope gives you some strength when he does come back that although he has attachment issues, he also isn’t maybe the best guy to you in addition to that short coming. So, FA or not, maybe not the kindest to you.
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tish
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Post by tish on Jul 6, 2023 15:00:13 GMT
I missed this part:”I spent the evening wondering if he's scared of his own feelings or if he's trying to let me down easy. I envy people whose exes told them they never want to see them again. ”
He was an asshole to you. If you go back to him and ask him more questions he will get even meaner. If someone else pushed their ex to the brink, don’t wish for that. You’ve been dished out enough for the time being to hurt you and indicate to you that he didn’t concern himself with hurting you.
I had an ex once say “I don’t love you. I don’t love you. I don’t love you.” And it came out of nowhere. I said literally as a response “good bye” and hung the phone up and never talked to him again. How can someone recover from that? They can’t. It was personally about respecting myself after that. I will never regret that choice. Circumstances were harder and I could have shown him sympathy and made excuses for his stress (mother was dying) but someone says those words and it should feel terrible and push you away.
That’s my take. I wish you the best of luck. I know how hard it can be. Go date other people and get your mind off him if you need to. Sometimes taking a break from dating isn’t easier.
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Post by guineamom on Jul 12, 2023 16:14:53 GMT
Lol he is back.
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