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Post by summer on Jan 10, 2018 14:47:16 GMT
How do you deal with the "push" behaviors when they start up? Have you found that push-pull is a cycle with the DA in your life?
With my DA boyfriend, who I love very much, he can only handle intimacy for a certain period of time. Then there's a shift, a mysterious change in the winds, and I start seeing avoidant behaviors popping up, and I know the cycle has gone back to "push." Things like:
- Adapting a cool, detached demeanor when we're together
- Less affection and interest in sex
- Starts taking his time responding to texts; sometimes doesn't respond at all
- Sometimes speaks in a cold, indifferent tone during phone calls
- Begins treating me as though I am low priority, like I am someone he squeezes onto his schedule only after all other obligations and hobbies have been attended to.
- Manufactures an illusion of "busyness" in order to keep me at arm's length (it took me months to figure out that he's not really that busy)
- In general seems to withdraw so that he is doing the bare minimum to keep the relationship going.
- Doesn't communicate his thoughts and feelings and doesn't want to talk about anything that's bothering him.
- Displays little interest in hearing my thoughts and feelings.
- I start getting the feeling that I have to chase him down to spend time with me, or just to give me attention that was given freely and automatically when he wasn't in a "push" cycle.
I know from experience with him, that things will likely return to a "pull" cycle, when he is being open and intimate. My question is: How do you handle being pushed away, and not get so fed up with it that you end the relationship? What wise advice is there for a partner of a DA to weather the push-pull behaviors? Any do's or don'ts? I don't want to make the situation worse.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 14:56:26 GMT
I think the partner who is more keen to keep the relationship going needs to accept the terms of the other partner. If you push them to change, it will lead to a worse outcome. Enjoy your time with him, and stay away when he needs private time, and then get back together again as if his behavior doesn't bother you, and genuinely make it not bothersome to you. It means dialing down your anxiety-preoccupation - i.e. he doesn't occupy your thought when you're apart. I think all of us posting here trying to "fix" our relationship are all acting AP, even though we come in all stripes, myself a little Avoidant. I hinted, albeit in a more humorous way that he ought to contact me more often, but he just couldn't. I needed to ask myself if I could accept his pace, and I decided I couldn't, I didn't want the relationship badly enough. If I do, then perhaps we would still be together, seeing each other occasionally when he's in town. I don't want that, and there're really more fish in the ocean! I'm going fishing again!  |
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Post by stavs on Jan 10, 2018 15:02:21 GMT
This is so difficult and when I talk to friends about this, they ask me why I stay. I have no explanation other than the heart wants what the heart wants.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 10, 2018 15:13:45 GMT
Hey Summer...here are some "don'ts" that l learned...but I think you already have them addressed
1. Don't take it personally, this is him being who he is and not a reaction to you....that was incredibly hard for me as it felt so personal...like I was being ignored. Try to find a more positive way to explain it...he is addressing his need to recharge so he can come back (because that will make it less about him reacting to you and more about handling his needs for autonomy, independence, rest).
2. Don't "over communicate" during the push. I tried the ping/pong...you ping...you don't contact again until he pongs....I wasn't always successful....but I tried.
3. Focus on the now...I did not do this well at all.....Live in the present moment and don't get caught up in future thinking. I wanted to secure the relationship and I believe he interpreted that as pressure.
4. Enjoy the time apart to work on your hobbies and enjoy time with friends.
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Post by summer on Jan 10, 2018 15:18:43 GMT
I think the partner who is more keen to keep the relationship going needs to accept the terms of the other partner. If you push them to change, it will lead to a worse outcome. Enjoy your time with him, and stay away when he needs private time, and then get back together again as if his behavior doesn't bother you, and genuinely make it not bothersome to you.It means dialing down your anxiety-preoccupation - i.e. he doesn't occupy your thought when you're apart. I think all of us posting here trying to "fix" our relationship are all acting AP, even though we come in all stripes, myself a little Avoidant. I hinted, albeit in a more humorous way that he ought to contact me more often, but he just couldn't. I needed to ask myself if I could accept his pace, and I decided I couldn't, I didn't want the relationship badly enough. If I do, then perhaps we would still be together, seeing each other occasionally when he's in town. I don't want that, and there're really more fish in the ocean! I'm going fishing again! I think one of the hardest things to manage in a relationship with a DA who is not self-aware, is that he is uninterested or unable to communicate his space needs. He would never simply come out and tell me that he needs X amount of private time. This would make things so much easier! Instead, it will suddenly feel as though a door has been quietly shut in my face, and he is unavailable. I am left to figure things out for myself, and as most of my relationships have been with secure men, this is very strange territory. I have never before experienced a lover who wants LESS time with you after you've have an especially great time together. Most folks, when things are going well in a new relationship, want to see more of the person, and have more communication. This is how most of us act when we are in love, especially passionately in love. Having a DA partner is counterintuitive in so many ways. It's been a hard road for me to learn to not take the push-pull as a personal affront. |
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Post by stavs on Jan 10, 2018 15:27:49 GMT
I have never before experienced a lover who wants LESS time with you after you've have an especially great time together. Most folks, when things are going well in a new relationship, want to see more of the person, and have more communication. This is how most of us act when we are in love, especially passionately in love. Having a DA partner is counterintuitive in so many ways. It's been a hard road for me to learn to not take the push-pull as a personal affront. Right there! I dont get how you wouldnt want to get more of that "high" either. |
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Post by summer on Jan 10, 2018 15:30:27 GMT
Hey Summer...here are some "don'ts" that l learned...but I think you already have them addressed 1. Don't take it personally, this is him being who he is and not a reaction to you....that was incredibly hard for me as it felt so personal...like I was being ignored. Try to find a more positive way to explain it...he is addressing his need to recharge so he can come back (because that will make it less about him reacting to you and more about handling his needs for autonomy, independence, rest). 2. Don't "over communicate" during the push. I tried the ping/pong...you ping...you don't contact again until he pongs....I wasn't always successful....but I tried. 3. Focus on the now...I did not do this well at all.....Live in the present moment and don't get caught up in future thinking. I wanted to secure the relationship and I believe he interpreted that as pressure. 4. Enjoy the time apart to work on your hobbies and enjoy time with friends. That is exactly how it feels - like I am being suddenly, for no apparent reason, ignored by my boyfriend. If a "secure" man were to display the same behaviors, he would indeed be ignoring you, so it's hard not to have that knee jerk reaction of feeling offended and upset. Mine thankfully doesn't have a problem with commitment. He thinks we are in a serious relationship. So there isn't a problem with me wanting to "secure" him - rather, it's the push-pull cycle that feels so confusing, and detrimental to developing trust. I think we each respond differently to that feeling of being ignored - for those of us who are very very secure, we can do exactly as you described (live in the present moment, enjoy work and hobbies, etc.). For others of us, that feeling is harder to manage, and it can be triggering of other unpleasant feelings. For me, my most common feeling I experience in response to the "push" behaviors is anger and hurt. Even the little ways he pushes me away... they sting! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 15:46:30 GMT
I think one of the hardest things to manage in a relationship with a DA who is not self-aware, is that he is uninterested or unable to communicate his space needs. He would never simply come out and tell me that he needs X amount of private time. This would make things so much easier! Instead, it will suddenly feel as though a door has been quietly shut in my face, and he is unavailable. I am left to figure things out for myself, and as most of my relationships have been with secure men, this is very strange territory. I have never before experienced a lover who wants LESS time with you after you've have an especially great time together. Most folks, when things are going well in a new relationship, want to see more of the person, and have more communication. This is how most of us act when we are in love, especially passionately in love. Having a DA partner is counterintuitive in so many ways. It's been a hard road for me to learn to not take the push-pull as a personal affront. It happened to me too, with exDA, and while I need more "space", I am usually able to communicate that need ...oh wait...I'm not good at that either. I remember an incident, when I was little and my parents were divorced. My father brought me to the shopping center to buy me a new dress and although there was a pink dress I wanted, I couldn't tell him when he asked me. I couldn't even shake or nod my head. He ended up buying me a red dress that I didn't like and then later, i cried when we got home.  He was exasperated with me! I think I am FA and I secretly wanted him to *know* which dress I liked but I felt like I shouldn't impose on him if he didn't know. I wonder if my father had interpreted that as a "push"? Actually, I created the "space" for him to "pull". I have a problem with accepting compliments too, they somehow make me feel more insecure! As if I can't truly live up to them. I think I need a partner who understands what I need without me telling him directly, and I love attention and compliments, but the "right" ones at the "right" time. If he is more FA like me, then he might be creating the "space" as a hint for you to fill it, but it comes across as a "push". |
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 10, 2018 15:49:36 GMT
Hey Summer...here are some "don'ts" that l learned...but I think you already have them addressed 1. Don't take it personally, this is him being who he is and not a reaction to you....that was incredibly hard for me as it felt so personal...like I was being ignored. Try to find a more positive way to explain it...he is addressing his need to recharge so he can come back (because that will make it less about him reacting to you and more about handling his needs for autonomy, independence, rest). 2. Don't "over communicate" during the push. I tried the ping/pong...you ping...you don't contact again until he pongs....I wasn't always successful....but I tried. 3. Focus on the now...I did not do this well at all.....Live in the present moment and don't get caught up in future thinking. I wanted to secure the relationship and I believe he interpreted that as pressure. 4. Enjoy the time apart to work on your hobbies and enjoy time with friends. That is exactly how it feels - like I am being suddenly, for no apparent reason, ignored by my boyfriend. If a "secure" man were to display the same behaviors, he would indeed be ignoring you, so it's hard not to have that knee jerk reaction of feeling offended and upset. Mine thankfully doesn't have a problem with commitment. He thinks we are in a serious relationship. So there isn't a problem with me wanting to "secure" him - rather, it's the push-pull cycle that feels so confusing, and detrimental to developing trust. I think we each respond differently to that feeling of being ignored - for those of us who are very very secure, we can do exactly as you described (live in the present moment, enjoy work and hobbies, etc.). For others of us, that feeling is harder to manage, and it can be triggering of other unpleasant feelings. For me, my most common feeling I experience in response to the "push" behaviors is anger and hurt. Even the little ways he pushes me away... they sting! I completely understand summer...I am AP...so my immediate reaction to distance/non communication is that something is "wrong" and as an added bonus...my flavor believes the disappearance is a direct result of something I did or did not do or say or did not say....so internally I am stirred up with "what happened and what to I need to do to fix it" and that doesn't settle until I hear back or see my partner. I have so many journal entries where I really tried to handle that to the best of my ability, but i wasn't always successful. I am trying to work on that now...but I know this will be my knee jerk reaction. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 16:26:04 GMT
With a DA though, a push is definitely a push - my ex would disappear to another city for weeks, either for work, to be with his family, friends, or both.
I'm more likely to mirror him, since I am FA, and I don't wish to pursue, but I cannot accept the pace and distance either, so I broke up.
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Post by summer on Jan 10, 2018 16:33:50 GMT
I completely understand summer...I am AP...so my immediate reaction to distance/non communication is that something is "wrong" and as an added bonus...my flavor believes the disappearance is a direct result of something I did or did not do or say or did not say....so internally I am stirred up with "what happened and what to I need to do to fix it" and that doesn't settle until I hear back or see my partner. I have so many journal entries where I really tried to handle that to the best of my ability, but i wasn't always successful. I am trying to work on that now...but I know this will be my knee jerk reaction. Thank you for this... but remember that in relationships with secures and other APs, the same behaviors would generally mean that something is wrong. Non-avoidants don't tend to display these behaviors unless something really is amiss. So being in a relationship with a DA, if you're not one yourself, means you have to first figure out that attachment styles are the explanation for a lot of what's going on in your relationship, and then from there work out that it actually isn't about you - it's the DA's hard wired reaction to too much intimacy. But having that knee jerk reaction that something is "wrong" - I think this is because it would be an appropriate reaction when dealing with someone whose not avoidant. You have to train yourself not to act on that "code red!" feeling when you're with a DA. I think one of AP people's strengths is that they are so attuned to other people's moods. They had to learn this skill when they were children, because their primary caregiver wasn't consistently available. So reading a loved one's tiniest shift in mood, is something APs can do automatically. This is a problem when in a relationship with a DA or FA, because the avoidant person is sending out signals that don't necessarily indicate the relationship is in danger, but the AP will interpret it that way and go into a perpetual state of stress. |
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Post by brie on Jan 11, 2018 1:32:12 GMT
I think the only healthy way to deal with an avoidant is if they are able to be (fairly) consistent. So, maybe you agree to see each other 3 nights/week, check in daily via text, one weekend on-one weekend off, or whatever works for both of you. Gentle communication is key.
If there's perpetual uncertainty being projected from one partner the other will always feel anxious regardless of their attachment style or how many hobbies they have. Our limbic brains are wired to focus on the thing that's causing stress in order to avoid danger and uncertainty is a HUGE biological trigger.
See if you can negotiate a "schedule" that feels safe for both of you. It might ease his anxiety knowing there's built-in space between periods of intimacy to roam. I'm an avoidant and this was what helped me be in the only healthy LTR I've had. Without some sort of consistency, I think the relationship will always be imbalanced and therefore unhealthy. Just my two cents.
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Post by scheme00 on Jan 11, 2018 2:09:57 GMT
I think the only healthy way to deal with an avoidant is if they are able to be (fairly) consistent. So, maybe you agree to see each other 3 nights/week, check in daily via text, one weekend on-one weekend off, or whatever works for both of you. Gentle communication is key. If there's perpetual uncertainty being projected from one partner the other will always feel anxious regardless of their attachment style or how many hobbies they have. Our limbic brains are wired to focus on the thing that's causing stress in order to avoid danger and uncertainty is a HUGE biological trigger. See if you can negotiate a "schedule" that feels safe for both of you. It might ease his anxiety knowing there's built-in space between periods of intimacy to roam. I'm an avoidant and this was what helped me be in the only healthy LTR I've had. Without some sort of consistency, I think the relationship will always be imbalanced and therefore unhealthy. Just my two cents. I thought about bringing this up to my exDA. But I also thought it would drive them away and REALLY resent me if we had a planned day to hang out and she felt like she didn't want to. Then she would fee forced to hang out and it may make her resent the whole relationship and pull away and break it off. That's why I never even tried to bring it up. |
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Post by summer on Jan 11, 2018 2:53:31 GMT
I think the only healthy way to deal with an avoidant is if they are able to be (fairly) consistent. So, maybe you agree to see each other 3 nights/week, check in daily via text, one weekend on-one weekend off, or whatever works for both of you. Gentle communication is key. If there's perpetual uncertainty being projected from one partner the other will always feel anxious regardless of their attachment style or how many hobbies they have. Our limbic brains are wired to focus on the thing that's causing stress in order to avoid danger and uncertainty is a HUGE biological trigger. See if you can negotiate a "schedule" that feels safe for both of you. It might ease his anxiety knowing there's built-in space between periods of intimacy to roam. I'm an avoidant and this was what helped me be in the only healthy LTR I've had. Without some sort of consistency, I think the relationship will always be imbalanced and therefore unhealthy. Just my two cents. These are some excellent observations and advice, thank you so much! I agree BIG TIME that consistency is crucial, not just in a relationship with a DA but with any relationship. That is what has been missing from my relationship - within the first month my boyfriend started up with the hot-cold-push-pull behaviors, and I've been in a varying state of mental and emotional stress ever since, for the exact reason that you describe: "If there's perpetual uncertainty being projected from one partner the other will always feel anxious regardless of their attachment style or how many hobbies they have. Our limbic brains are wired to focus on the thing that's causing stress in order to avoid danger and uncertainty is a HUGE biological trigger." I'm so crazy about him, that I have been hanging in there, in spite of the stress. There are the blissful periods when he is acting like a normal, emotionally available boyfriend, but inevitably the avoidant behaviors start up again, and I start feeling like I am perpetually chasing him, which I hate. Thank you for validating that the intermittent reinforcement/push-pull style of relationship would make anyone anxious, and that trying to deal with continual uncertainty in a love relationship is inherently very stressful. I wish I was some enlightened person who could be all Zen about this, and be okay with him coming close and shutting me out, and back and forth, but I'm just not. |
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Post by yasmin on Jan 11, 2018 3:10:28 GMT
Reading this I can see why DAs end up in relationships quite often with APs (or push secures into AP) because I guess the push-pull cycle works for them and while it's not something they choose it's also a comfortable space to be able to pull away like that and APs want to solve it.
I am slightly FA, but quite close to secure too, but I don't have a lot of tolerance for people doing this kind of stuff or pulling away and being inconsistent. I have usually walked away immediately from behavior like this. I look back to earlier days when he first disappeared on me or went quiet and I think I just thought "oh he doesn't like me anymore" and practically forgot about him in a week. I remember laughing with friends at my disappearing boyfriend because to me it was just basically being ghosted and was a funny story, I had no idea he actually did like me and was avoidant. What surprised me wasn't that he disappeared, it was that he kept coming back. All I was thinking was, why the heck does this guy keep on coming back if he doesn't like me? I was more intrigued than anything at first.
Then when I started to feel in my gut that this person both really liked me and yet kept repeatedly chasing and rejecting me, I got briefly sucked into the push-pull cycle for a period of a few months and over that time I experienced the totally awful feeling of the approach-avoidance cycle and I was genuinely making myself ill (I found this forum around that time in desperation) so I have experienced a period of how that feels and it was horrible, so hugs to you all.
Now I have 'diagnosed' him as avoidant and all his behavior fits perfectly with that pattern, I don't really feel anxious anymore. He does this because he has issues - I can either tolerate it or go and find someone else who doesn't do this. Maybe this is easy for me to say because we're not in a very close committed relationship and we only date and see each other once a week, and maybe looking into the long term future I'd be upset by his avoidance but to be honest right now it doesn't bother me very much. He'd do the same to any person he was dating so this just is not my fault (or yours).
If he goes he goes, if he comes back I am either happy to see him or done with him. I guess I continue for as long as I choose to. If he's not talking to me or in one of his moods then I practically forget about him and get on with my life and actually don't even expect him to come back. I am not sure if this is because I am also a bit avoidant and find it a relief! for whatever reason, I think the fact that I want him but also don't really care if he disappears actually stops him from disappearing. He knows I'm going to be there, he knows I am not going to chase him so in a way the push-pull cycle has been largely eliminated by be basically not participating in it with him.
I just say "not my circus, not my monkeys" and I go and get on with it. Last month when he did it over Christmas, I went for the weekend to Paris and had a great time. Sure enough, he was back.
Right now, we're not talking (I asked him not to talk to me because he was calling us 'friends' again when we're obviously dating and he got very upset). The main avoidant thing that he does now the push-pull no longer works is to keep calling us friends, when by basically every possible measure of what is dating versus what is friends - we are dating. It really, really annoys me and I guess it is just an avoidant technique to give him this barrier from the label and what it means.
I don't really feel upset that we're not talking or anxious over whether he comes back or not. I do miss him, yes, but I kinda also like the space myself and don't feel like pandering to someone else being a jerk. I don't give the silent treatment or pull away but I guess if someone else wants to then if I haven't done anything wrong I am not going to let it ruin my day. Right now I am feeling that if he can't call us boyfriend / girlfriend that I might continue to tell him we can't see or speak. I don't see this as pressure or me being cruel to him, but I am patient, loving and kind to him and if he can't simply call me his girfriend then whatever he is offering me isn't what I want. We have a lovely and valuable relationship but committing to it is his choice.
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He was exasperated with me!