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Post by madamebovary on Jan 28, 2018 16:26:45 GMT
I have a question about something my DA always says. When I email or message him, as an AP, I obviously am on pins and needles until I get a response. It used to drive me absolutely bonkers (something I’m working on) that it would take him hours or even days to respond, especially if it was something “relationship-y”, which it frequently was (another issue I’m dealing with, my tendency to want to talk about the relationship too much).
Sometimes, I do feel like it was a diversion tactic, as he would just ignore the question. But sometimes he would answer a couple days later. He would always tell me he just needed more time than I did to “process his emotions.” Is this a thing with Avoidants? In my opinion, now seeing just how bad some avoidants can be, I see that he was more self-aware than many. He still did some annoying avoidant things, like totally ignoring questions he didn’t want to answer. But... I think maybe because part of his job is figuring out other people (and he’s objectively very good at it) he was much more open than many Avoidants. And much more patient with (what I now know are) my very deep AP tendencies.
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lucy
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Post by lucy on Jan 28, 2018 16:46:02 GMT
Yes, I do believe most DAs need more.time to process things. One the one side they often dont seem to as easily in touch with their feelings, but also when pushed their initial reaction will be to pull away. They will then need to distance a bit before they can process their emotions again and come back. In my experience with my DA I try to keep heavy talk down to a minimum now and just take things slow. Also I realise he will need more time to process anything.
A few weeks ago I kept telling him cant he see deep down he wants to be with me. He felt confused and torn...I did a joke about it 2days later and he reached out to me again. I was the most genuine text he ever sent me. Nothing romantic or I love you. But with insight to himself.
So try to sit back. Keep yourself busy. Laugh about yourself. And give the situation time .
I read something once like 'when you are down think if this is still going to matter in 5yrs time' ... I try to do that a lot. A look back at a broken relationship from 5yrs ago and its ok now. But really really important times like when I miscarried...that will never be ok. Try to keep things in perspective!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 17:17:20 GMT
There are 2 reasons for me that I may not be able to answer a question right away. If I don't know the answer, I do like to think on it and give a real answer rather than just shooting something out that may or may not answer the question. Also, I tend to be very blunt and direct and that doesn't always go over well. There are times I want to think about it and deliver it in a way that will be well received and not hurt the other person. What I think is an honest answer may be perceived as hurtful, so it's better if I don't blurt out the first thing that pops in my head.
In the past, with APs mostly, I never realized they were on "pins and needles" waiting for an answer. My frame of reference was, I'm good waiting for an answer (I'm not one to constantly check my phone), so it's a learning curve. My mind says, if it's not an emergency, what's the hurry? Now, I do understand more, that this is not how some other people think, so I am better at saying, I will think on it and get back to them. Unfortunately, even that response, is not often taken well with some.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 19:07:52 GMT
I really do need more time to figure out my thoughts and feelings about things, and tend to get annoyed or draw a blank if i feel pressured or as though it’s being made my job to soothe someone as a priority over what i happen to be engaged with at the time.
If i get thrown off track by a question or something i might feel a little annoyed and not want to engage it in that frame of mind also i will put it aside for a bit.
If i am being asked about a circular issue in which i have already expressed myself as clearly as i can i will internally groan and want to avoid it.
Sometimes i am just busy and have other things i need
to put attention to, or tired or hungry or something simple like that.
i have been on the anxious side of this too though, triggered by a more avoidant partner so i totally get the pins and needles. this awareness actually helps me have more tolerance for him.
Funny how just working through this thoughtfully can create subtle shifts in perception, it’s a little relief.
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Post by madamebovary on Jan 29, 2018 0:29:41 GMT
This, tgat, (“If i am being asked about a circular issue in which i have already expressed myself as clearly as i can i will internally groan and want to avoid it”), spoke to me and I can almost hear the sigh in my DAs voice as he types something he has already answered. He hates that. And I find myself seeking reassurance for the same thing too much when I get anxious. I’ll have to have this tattooed on my forehead: STOP BEATING THAT DAMN DEAD HORSE.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 0:40:01 GMT
This, tgat, (“If i am being asked about a circular issue in which i have already expressed myself as clearly as i can i will internally groan and want to avoid it”), spoke to me and I can almost hear the sigh in my DAs voice as he types something he has already answered. He hates that. And I find myself seeking reassurance for the same thing too much when I get anxious. I’ll have to have this tattooed on my forehead: STOP BEATING THAT DAMN DEAD HORSE. madame, when you practice self soothing through the anxiety, are you tending more toward distracting yourself, or are you taking time with the anxiety to identify it, and speak to it? Your anxiety, the way i see it, is the little girl inside of you that needs reassurance that she is valued, lovable, and safe. no one else can give her that but you. And it isn’t a matter of telling her that HE loves her... it’s a matter of telling her that YOU do. It’s not a matter of getting him to listen and respond to her, she really needs that from you. She gets into the drivers seat sometimes but she really need you to take over the wheel. That’s how i have dealt with my internal stuff for a long time and it’s been very nurturing and transformative for me. |
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Post by madamebovary on Jan 29, 2018 0:52:01 GMT
This, tgat, (“If i am being asked about a circular issue in which i have already expressed myself as clearly as i can i will internally groan and want to avoid it”), spoke to me and I can almost hear the sigh in my DAs voice as he types something he has already answered. He hates that. And I find myself seeking reassurance for the same thing too much when I get anxious. I’ll have to have this tattooed on my forehead: STOP BEATING THAT DAMN DEAD HORSE. madame, when you practice self soothing through the anxiety, are you tending more toward distracting yourself, or are you taking time with the anxiety to identify it, and speak to it? Your anxiety, the way i see it, is the little girl inside of you that needs reassurance that she is valued, lovable, and safe. no one else can give her that but you. And it isn’t a matter of telling her that HE loves her... it’s a matter of telling her that YOU do. It’s not a matter of getting him to listen and respond to her, she really needs that from you. She gets into the drivers seat sometimes but she really need you to take over the wheel. That’s how i have dealt with my internal stuff for a long time and it’s been very nurturing and transformative for me. Because this part of it is very new to me, it’s mostly distraction at the moment. I know I need to get to a place where I can really soothe myself in a more meaningful way, however, in the same way I have a hard time with meditation and it takes weeks of practice before I’m back on track, I think this will take some extra time and effort. I recognize that this is what needs to get done, but my knee-jerk reaction is still anxiety, which I need distraction to get out of. Once I can distract myself enough, then I try to work on the inner monologue. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 2:46:07 GMT
Do you ever have the experience where your partner thinks he/she has answered the question, but to you it is still ambiguous? Short of saying I LOVE YOU AND I'M NOT LEAVING YOU, it sounds like equivocation? Is this an AP thing where any ambiguity is not quite tolerable? I've always been ok saying that it's going to be tough but I love you, and let's work something out and we'll be fine (of course, in my mind, I know that it might not ultimately work out but we're going to try).
For example, I asked my DA about his commitment to the relationship, and he said that he doesn't know what that defines, but he puts in effort everyday to keep it going. That's the only thing he can do given a lack of clarity in our situations (long distance, his kids plus a pending divorce). He explained that he cannot overpromise so he doesn't want to make verbal promises or declarations of undying love.
To me, that sounds like... a caveat and a lack of commitment. If I were activated, I would feel like I'm being used as the girlfriend on demand where he gets his emotional and physical needs fulfilled, without having to put in the work and effort of a real relationship of living together and marriage! If I were to think about it cognitively, his reasoning makes sense because everything happened in the 10 months so it's really not settled yet, but emotionally I feel like it's a cop-out.
By the way, this conversation that I mentioned above took multiple attempts over 3-6 months (I don't even remember how long it's been!) to get to such a concrete state. Before this, every time I tried to strike a conversation, it was met with dismissive comments, silence, change of topic, proclamations of being tired and unwell, bad jokes. This time, we finally did have a conversation because I got massively annoyed and lost my temper.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 2:53:02 GMT
I have a question about something my DA always says. When I email or message him, as an AP, I obviously am on pins and needles until I get a response. It used to drive me absolutely bonkers (something I’m working on) that it would take him hours or even days to respond, especially if it was something “relationship-y”, which it frequently was (another issue I’m dealing with, my tendency to want to talk about the relationship too much). Sometimes, I do feel like it was a diversion tactic, as he would just ignore the question. But sometimes he would answer a couple days later. He would always tell me he just needed more time than I did to “process his emotions.” Is this a thing with Avoidants? In my opinion, now seeing just how bad some avoidants can be, I see that he was more self-aware than many. He still did some annoying avoidant things, like totally ignoring questions he didn’t want to answer. But... I think maybe because part of his job is figuring out other people (and he’s objectively very good at it) he was much more open than many Avoidants. And much more patient with (what I now know are) my very deep AP tendencies. i have exactly the same experience! To him, not answering the question (which includes not telling me he needs time to think), isn't the end of the world. Nobody dies if the question is not answered, so it is not urgent. if it is not urgent, then everything else comes first. Well, sometimes, I feel like being the last priority or not even a priority because of that. My feelings will NEVER be urgent, until it's come to a point where I have emotional outbursts or when I'm at the brink of leaving him. I swear he has a radar for detecting when I'm at my breaking point, and he'll always "come back" just in time to answer my questions so that he can claim we've had a talk. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 3:12:33 GMT
Do you ever have the experience where your partner thinks he/she has answered the question, but to you it is still ambiguous? Short of saying I LOVE YOU AND I'M NOT LEAVING YOU, it sounds like equivocation? Is this an AP thing where any ambiguity is not quite tolerable? I've always been ok saying that it's going to be tough but I love you, and let's work something out and we'll be fine (of course, in my mind, I know that it might not ultimately work out but we're going to try). For example, I asked my DA about his commitment to the relationship, and he said that he doesn't know what that defines, but he puts in effort everyday to keep it going. That's the only thing he can do given a lack of clarity in our situations (long distance, his kids plus a pending divorce). He explained that he cannot overpromise so he doesn't want to make verbal promises or declarations of undying love. To me, that sounds like... a caveat and a lack of commitment. If I were activated, I would feel like I'm being used as the girlfriend on demand where he gets his emotional and physical needs fulfilled, without having to put in the work and effort of a real relationship of living together and marriage! If I were to think about it cognitively, his reasoning makes sense because everything happened in the 10 months so it's really not settled yet, but emotionally I feel like it's a cop-out. By the way, this conversation that I mentioned above took multiple attempts over 3-6 months (I don't even remember how long it's been!) to get to such a concrete state. Before this, every time I tried to strike a conversation, it was met with dismissive comments, silence, change of topic, proclamations of being tired and unwell, bad jokes. This time, we finally did have a conversation because I got massively annoyed and lost my temper. i know that’s frustrating, but an outside perspective is that a pending divorce with children involved is a major life stressor and many people in that stage of life would be unable to make a commitment to a new partner. It may not mean he wants to leave, but making a commitment to you might not be at the top of the list of things he needs to do to take care of his own wellbeing? That just stood out to me when i read the post because unfinished business is a very good reason to decline further commitments. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 3:31:59 GMT
Do you ever have the experience where your partner thinks he/she has answered the question, but to you it is still ambiguous? Short of saying I LOVE YOU AND I'M NOT LEAVING YOU, it sounds like equivocation? Is this an AP thing where any ambiguity is not quite tolerable? I've always been ok saying that it's going to be tough but I love you, and let's work something out and we'll be fine (of course, in my mind, I know that it might not ultimately work out but we're going to try). For example, I asked my DA about his commitment to the relationship, and he said that he doesn't know what that defines, but he puts in effort everyday to keep it going. That's the only thing he can do given a lack of clarity in our situations (long distance, his kids plus a pending divorce). He explained that he cannot overpromise so he doesn't want to make verbal promises or declarations of undying love. To me, that sounds like... a caveat and a lack of commitment. If I were activated, I would feel like I'm being used as the girlfriend on demand where he gets his emotional and physical needs fulfilled, without having to put in the work and effort of a real relationship of living together and marriage! If I were to think about it cognitively, his reasoning makes sense because everything happened in the 10 months so it's really not settled yet, but emotionally I feel like it's a cop-out. By the way, this conversation that I mentioned above took multiple attempts over 3-6 months (I don't even remember how long it's been!) to get to such a concrete state. Before this, every time I tried to strike a conversation, it was met with dismissive comments, silence, change of topic, proclamations of being tired and unwell, bad jokes. This time, we finally did have a conversation because I got massively annoyed and lost my temper. i know that’s frustrating, but an outside perspective is that a pending divorce with children involved is a major life stressor and many people in that stage of life would be unable to make a commitment to a new partner. It may not mean he wants to leave, but making a commitment to you might not be at the top of the list of things he needs to do to take care of his own wellbeing? That just stood out to me when i read the post because unfinished business is a very good reason to decline further commitments. Cognitively, I absolutely agree. Emotionally, I feel cheated - he's the one who came and asked me to stay and not give him up so easily, and telling me he's never had this sort of connection before and he doesn't want to lose me and give it up. He's afraid that if he waits till everything is finished, I wouldn't be there anymore. In any case, I guess it's a case of honeymoon period is over and reality is back, so giving that verbal commitment is alot more weighty and concrete now? What it is, I think, is just me keeping things inside me for too long and everything is exploding outwards because he triggered me so badly with his emotional detachment two months ago. Since then, I just resent everything in the relationship and him, because I feel like we only have one based on me giving (which I know is probably not the case, but when the self-protection mechanism kicks in, all I see is how he gets everything, and I don't). I have to actively fight these thoughts, and have yet to really come to peace with it. Here're some resources that resonated with me and perhaps, might be of help to others: tealswan.com/resources/articles/how-to-let-go-of-resentment-r227/ isha.sadhguru.org/blog/video/live-in-relationships-how-much-does-commitment-matter/ |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 3:38:45 GMT
yes, it’s a very complicated situation and quite painful i am sure. it’s good you are working on your side of it because that’s the only thing you really have control over. Resentment will eat you alive and doesn’t offer any remedy.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 3:39:54 GMT
Do you ever have the experience where your partner thinks he/she has answered the question, but to you it is still ambiguous? Short of saying I LOVE YOU AND I'M NOT LEAVING YOU, it sounds like equivocation? Is this an AP thing where any ambiguity is not quite tolerable? I've always been ok saying that it's going to be tough but I love you, and let's work something out and we'll be fine (of course, in my mind, I know that it might not ultimately work out but we're going to try). For example, I asked my DA about his commitment to the relationship, and he said that he doesn't know what that defines, but he puts in effort everyday to keep it going. That's the only thing he can do given a lack of clarity in our situations (long distance, his kids plus a pending divorce). He explained that he cannot overpromise so he doesn't want to make verbal promises or declarations of undying love. To me, that sounds like... a caveat and a lack of commitment. If I were activated, I would feel like I'm being used as the girlfriend on demand where he gets his emotional and physical needs fulfilled, without having to put in the work and effort of a real relationship of living together and marriage! If I were to think about it cognitively, his reasoning makes sense because everything happened in the 10 months so it's really not settled yet, but emotionally I feel like it's a cop-out. By the way, this conversation that I mentioned above took multiple attempts over 3-6 months (I don't even remember how long it's been!) to get to such a concrete state. Before this, every time I tried to strike a conversation, it was met with dismissive comments, silence, change of topic, proclamations of being tired and unwell, bad jokes. This time, we finally did have a conversation because I got massively annoyed and lost my temper. From another perspective, his answer sounds honest to me. It sounds like he was procrastinating giving you an answer, because he knew it wasn't the one you wanted to hear. Once you were annoyed, the conflict wasn't going to be avoided, so he just said it. My experience with APs is that anything short of proclaiming your undying love and devotion, will signal a lack of commitment. I also agree with tgat, there are other roadblocks to your relationship that could be effecting concrete commitment. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 3:58:29 GMT
you two are my voices of reason! Thank you so much for taking the time to just point this out to me so that it's burnt into my eyes (and brain).
yea, in the first few times I wanted to discuss my relocation, I wasn't really looking for reassurance and commitment, I just wanted to know how to arrange my schedule and things like that. The more he dismissed me and it, the more triggered I got -- probably like what madame said, I really hate ambiguity, especially over my time (mum issues here) To me, talking, even if it is not quite positive, is a sign of trust, respect and honesty in the relationship. Anyhow, it didn't need to get to this stage, if he hadn't assumed what I had wanted and then deny me it, then trigger exactly the response he thought he will get (self fulfilling max?). Before this entire episode, I absolutely did not question anyone's commitment and devotion.
I've been withdrawing from him i.e., not emotionally reaching out to him nor being particularly intimate. I know I am still activated, though the boiling mass of emotions have died down but my mind is 24/7 on this. It's trying to fix me, my issues with my mum, my issues with him, and fighting negative thoughts about him. PFFFFFT.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 4:04:27 GMT
awh anxious, i know this is really hard, but you probably aren’t in a place to make a commitment either.
Sometimes we grasp and what we think we need because we aren’t yet familiar with what we actually need.
To put your eggs in his basket would be risking a lot of eggs.
It’s ok to get really confused and turned around but when you get insight into what the next right thing is for you, you have to take responsibility for it because if you don’t the only one failing in their commitment to you ... is you. i am coming from a supportive place, not a judgemenal one.
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