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Post by dann98 on Feb 5, 2018 22:09:54 GMT
It's very, very tough, but the best action you can take isn't to force her to see her issues (God, so hard to get anyone to do that but 100x harder with an avoidant) but more to work to bring yourself to a secure space. If you do that, her avoidance will reduce all by itself and you won't feel bad either. Can you join us here on the forums and read through all the threads and get more understanding? Also we're all here to support your journey Thanks very much, it feels very reassuring. I totally agree with what you're saying. It's very hard to control emotions sometimes, feelings of rejection and abandonment just creep in and it's so difficult to just be present with her sometimes, although I know her avoidant tendencies are just as valid as my preoccupation.
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Post by yasmin on Feb 5, 2018 22:12:47 GMT
Oh geez, yes it is incredibly difficult. The anxiety is impossible to control so don't beat yourself up, but you can find resources and support to bring yourself to a more secure place.
Can you talk to us more about when the switch was for you from avoidant to anxious and the point that triggered this for you?
For me (I am also FA) this happens actually the moment I am dating someone. Before that I am very dismissive and uninterested, but from the second we are dating I switch to anxious. This can then calm down if my partner is secure and stable.
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Post by dann98 on Feb 5, 2018 22:21:29 GMT
Oh geez, yes it is incredibly difficult. The anxiety is impossible to control so don't beat yourself up, but you can find resources and support to bring yourself to a more secure place. Can you talk to us more about when the switch was for you from avoidant to anxious and the point that triggered this for you? For me (I am also FA) this happens actually the moment I am dating someone. Before that I am very dismissive and uninterested, but from the second we are dating I switch to anxious. This can then calm down if my partner is secure and stable. I believe the first hard blow I took was as we planned a weekend away together and she totally forgot about us, just talking about how eager she is to go to some party that weekend. That totally triggered me, but I acted as chill as possible. Even told her we shouldn't discuss the subject right then as I'm feeling very emotional and not thinking straight. On the way home I kind of resisted physical contact for some time and she seemed very upset and scared, telling me to just remember how good we are together and all the good times between us. I went a bit distant for the next two days but I was extremely distressed on the inside. She cried at work, I cried at work, we made up after that
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Post by dann98 on Feb 5, 2018 22:28:51 GMT
Oh geez, yes it is incredibly difficult. The anxiety is impossible to control so don't beat yourself up, but you can find resources and support to bring yourself to a more secure place. Can you talk to us more about when the switch was for you from avoidant to anxious and the point that triggered this for you? For me (I am also FA) this happens actually the moment I am dating someone. Before that I am very dismissive and uninterested, but from the second we are dating I switch to anxious. This can then calm down if my partner is secure and stable. I believe the first hard blow I took was as we planned a weekend away together and she totally forgot about us, just talking about how eager she is to go to some party that weekend. That totally triggered me, but I acted as chill as possible. Even told her we shouldn't discuss the subject right then as I'm feeling very emotional and not thinking straight. On the way home I kind of resisted physical contact for some time and she seemed very upset and scared, telling me to just remember how good we are together and all the good times between us. I went a bit distant for the next two days but I was extremely distressed on the inside. She cried at work, I cried at work, we made up after that later edit - I believe that was the switch from secure to AP, as I was feeling quite secure back then, still with avoidant tendencies, but secure. Sorry for double post
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Post by yasmin on Feb 5, 2018 22:43:50 GMT
And how long had you been dating? Was this a significant moment for you emotionally because you felt the trip away signified commitment? How were you feeling about the trip away? Was it turning point to take a trip together?
I think what's interesting is that this woman pursued you for a very long time, then she finally got you, and her forgetting this trip is a sign (almost) of forgetting YOU just at the moment you'd decided to commit and try things. If you see what I mean.
Do you think this happenned?
How long was she chasing you for before you got together?
How long were you friends for before it developed into a relationship?
How long were you dating before this trigger moment happenned?
Did she switch to avoidant as soon as you wrre dating OR after you were triggered and became more anxious (so did the relationship trigger her OR your anxiety?
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Post by dann98 on Feb 6, 2018 7:23:21 GMT
And how long had you been dating? Was this a significant moment for you emotionally because you felt the trip away signified commitment? How were you feeling about the trip away? Was it turning point to take a trip together? I think what's interesting is that this woman pursued you for a very long time, then she finally got you, and her forgetting this trip is a sign (almost) of forgetting YOU just at the moment you'd decided to commit and try things. If you see what I mean. Do you think this happenned? How long was she chasing you for before you got together? How long were you friends for before it developed into a relationship? How long were you dating before this trigger moment happenned? Did she switch to avoidant as soon as you wrre dating OR after you were triggered and became more anxious (so did the relationship trigger her OR your anxiety? This trip was the first thing we planned on doing together as a couple and yes, it kind of signified commitment. She wasn't chasing me actively before but she'd show me she liked me every chance she'd got. We were friends for more than 10 years and we're both part of an old group of friends. We were dating for about a month when the trigger happened and she didn't fully switch to full avoidant until the conflict after the party. There were signs before, she'd have those difficult times at the office and she wouldn't let me anywhere near her to comfort her during those times, and other smaller things like avoiding more sensitive conversations. But she was still eager to commit, talking about how things will be when we moved in together, even talking about kids, which kind of freaked me out. She's also told her family about me, and how eager her parents are to meet me. I was kind of reluctant and clearly explained to her that I want to see them and meet her friends, it's just that my anxiety and fears keep me from doing this at the moment, but that I'm so eager to meet them all. Her forgetting me by forgetting the trip... that's very interesting. She idealized me too much I think, all the more reason for her to be disappointed and turn avoidant on me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 13:27:30 GMT
It seems you were triggering each other, but you were able to see your fear and respond in a different way by telling her you had fear and anxiety. She may not idealize you, but is less aware of her feelings and of the fear. I am DA and would have outright rejected the thought of a trip. At least she is wanting the relationship. It will be difficult for you as you are more aware.
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Post by dann98 on Feb 6, 2018 16:38:23 GMT
Thing is, she's planned the weekend off on her own two weeks before but she had a colleague of hers stay at her place for some time until he found a place to rent. He was leaving that Saturday and she had to be around for him to move out. So somewhere around this time I suggest that we take the trip, but she'd forgotten all about it eventually. It was very strange the way we started dating; I was reaching out to her (since she was a good friend) in very small dosages because I really liked talking to her and nothing more, or so I thought. I'd usually meet her and then go dark for days or weeks at a time since I was sensing some feelings for her and that scared me. So the last time we hung out as buddies I slept at her place, woke up in the morning, got bored so I washed the dishes since she was still asleep. I hugged her before I left that day and here I was again, running for the hills like never before. Anyways, I reach out to her a week later, somewhat scared and feeling guilty for behaving like that, thinking I should really have the guts to tell her I'm not interested so she shouldn't waste her time on me. So we meet up again, talk about stuff - her therapy sessions, my therapy sessions, some small talk when I finally muster the courage to tell her that it's very hard for me to be vulnerable and I just feel like running and never look back the moment someone gets close to me, hoping she'd just leave me alone. She tells me she's just the same, she's running when someone gets close to her. She also tells me she panicked when she saw me doing the dishes. I'm telling her not to take my distancing personally and that I feel like she's trying to control me with her acts of care. It just broke my heart telling her that, since I knew there were genuine acts of care and nothing more. So anyways, I think she has some awareness of what's going on with her judging by what she'd told me that evening, but I believe it's very hard for her to actually see it happening when she's in the middle of the distancing act, which could just be her equivalent to the emotional storms I'm experiencing - when I just feel abandoned and rejected by the whole world and see her as the most evil person on the planet. Very hard and painful... I noticed her being somewhat more herself when we're going out and there's other friends around; she almost seems unchanged and doesn't seem distant at all. We hung out with some friends this Sunday and she seemed really cool, but once we got back to her place and it was just us, she just turned off like a light bulb. More or less, something like this . Asked if she felt comfortable with me being around, she said she doesn't mind in a very standoffish way. I think she's actually very scared, just hiding it well.
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hello
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Post by hello on Feb 8, 2018 12:09:49 GMT
Google led me to this thread and I registered to answer. I usually don't bother because I know how people never really want to hear advices that could crush them. And I assure you I don't mean that in a rude way (I include myself in this). Just that usually experiences are a necessity. But here I wanted to warn you about those expectations you have about this woman. It never ends well to expect from someone to change. You might be willing to improve on your own attachment issues, and this is very good for you and your future relationships, but don't expect her to do just the same. From what I understand, she told you about her intimacy issues and now she is freezing you. Trust her actions. Maybe give her space and time to process what she wants out of this relationship. But don't start trying to make her see reason. I don't believe that you being scared that she forgot your first get away week-end together is a sign of you being too needy or anxious. It is indeed a big step in a new relationship. But the anxious reaction would be to cling as much as possible to a relationship that might be not meant to be. In other words, I would say to you, just stay with her if the relationship is fulfilling to you too. Don't expect it to get better. If you can't deal with her rejections of intimacy, then maybe it's time to move on. It wouldn't mean your bad or she is. Just take this experience as a way to learn something new about yourself. It seems that you are indeed able to want intimacy with someone. It's good news. I wish you well.
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Post by dann98 on Feb 11, 2018 18:08:52 GMT
So we talked a bit yesterday about the relationship on both our accord and one idea to the next, I'm telling her that I don't want to be ashamed with who I am and what I need in a relationship and that I'm very curious about her needs also and how I can meet them better. I told her I sometimes feel uncomfortable around her, but that's just my fears and negative thoughts and I don't hold her responsible for them, I just want her to know that I don't want her to blame herself, to which she replied: "If you're uncomfortable, why are you wasting your time?" This kind of puzzled me and I felt so heartbroken for her... it wasn't "Why are we wasting each other's time?" which led me to believe she feels like she's a burden or something, that she's unlovable, that all she is to me is a waste of time.
Thanks hello for your advice, I know what you're saying but I'm willing to stay a bit longer, that's what I told her too... I think it's a bit early to call it quits.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 0:11:44 GMT
So we talked a bit yesterday about the relationship on both our accord and one idea to the next, I'm telling her that I don't want to be ashamed with who I am and what I need in a relationship and that I'm very curious about her needs also and how I can meet them better. I told her I sometimes feel uncomfortable around her, but that's just my fears and negative thoughts and I don't hold her responsible for them, I just want her to know that I don't want her to blame herself, to which she replied: "If you're uncomfortable, why are you wasting your time?" This kind of puzzled me and I felt so heartbroken for her... it wasn't "Why are we wasting each other's time?" which led me to believe she feels like she's a burden or something, that she's unlovable, that all she is to me is a waste of time. Thanks hello for your advice, I know what you're saying but I'm willing to stay a bit longer, that's what I told her too... I think it's a bit early to call it quits. This is something I would have said in my 20s. I had very low self esteem. She may or may not, I don't know, but only she can change that if she does.
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Post by dann98 on Feb 12, 2018 4:52:25 GMT
She's getting edgier with each passing day and more emotionally immature. I actually felt she was behaving like an 18 year old angsty teenager lately. She had moments being mean these days, with me reacting neutrally, then she comes around and tries to "mend" the situation in a very non responsible way, blaming her behavior on some external factor but never taking responsibility or saying sorry.
She's trying to look aloof and uninterested, but I noticed what I say has a huge impact on her and she's not always able to hide this. I may say something totally unrelated to her, and she draws negative conclusions about herself from the conversation; she's overly vigilant for negative cues when I talk.
She has a lot to learn about herself, and yes, she has low self esteem. I'm her first experience so she might have to bang her head against the wall a few times before realizing the issue here isn't me entirely.
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Post by Jaeger on Feb 12, 2018 8:06:37 GMT
She's getting edgier with each passing day and more emotionally immature. I actually felt she was behaving like an 18 year old angsty teenager lately. She had moments being mean these days, with me reacting neutrally, then she comes around and tries to "mend" the situation in a very non responsible way, blaming her behavior on some external factor but never taking responsibility or saying sorry. She's trying to look aloof and uninterested, but I noticed what I say has a huge impact on her and she's not always able to hide this. I may say something totally unrelated to her, and she draws negative conclusions about herself from the conversation; she's overly vigilant for negative cues when I talk. She has a lot to learn about herself, and yes, she has low self esteem. I'm her first experience so she might have to bang her head against the wall a few times before realizing the issue here isn't me entirely. I'm seeing someone signaling the need for distance, employing escalating distancing strategies to get it (and the 'mean', immature behaviour will likely only increase as long as she doesn't get it. I also see pursuing behavior from your side, ensuring that she doesn't get it and aggravating the issue. To me, this looks like an anxious - avoidant interaction from where I am sitting and it will get worse over time unless one of you changes the dynamic. You've led a horse to water but now you're attempting to force it to drink. I don't see that ending well.
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Post by dann98 on Feb 12, 2018 8:21:03 GMT
Strange thing is, she's been calling the shots on when we should hang out, I didn't even initiate anything for more than 2 weeks now. The closest I've come to initiating has been "Hey, we can hang out whenever you want" and that's it. She even said we haven't seen each other very often the last week.
Late edit - she just asked to hang out again today, we've been seeing each other on Saturday, left her place on Sunday and she also wanted to hang out Sunday evening evening with some friends but I had other plans.
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hello
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Post by hello on Feb 13, 2018 11:19:51 GMT
I told her I sometimes feel uncomfortable around her, but that's just my fears and negative thoughts and I don't hold her responsible for them, I just want her to know that I don't want her to blame herself, to which she replied: "If you're uncomfortable, why are you wasting your time?" Or maybe, just maybe, she asks you why you are wasting your time because she does not feel uncomfortable like you do. Sometimes the answer is not that convoluted. Testing your boundaries maybe ? It doesn't sound like she has it that bad to me. The longer you accept what you don't actually want to accept, the harder it will become to say no That being said, I'm pretty sure you'll stay. So be careful with yourself. I hope you'll end up finding what you're looking for somewhere
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