flic
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Post by flic on Apr 17, 2018 5:08:40 GMT
Sorry to intrude on this thread, but tinyrobotman do you know what happened to juniper? It now says they are a deleted member? I get that things got heated on here, but juniper was really helping me (an AP) on another thread and I'm really devastated they might not be around any more. Their insight into DAs was really, really helping me through a very painful breakup. I meant to message this to you privately but can't find the function... Again, sorry to intrude on this rather heated thread. Hope you're getting the support you need. |
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Post by Jaeger on Apr 17, 2018 5:11:03 GMT
Hopefully OP can have compassion for this ex partner/friend and realize that it is not her fault she responds the way she does and it’s not personal. It’s easy when anxious to take things very very personal. This woman has had events in her life that have made her not feel safe getting close to others. She needs more love and patience because of that rather than being vilified. Don’t get me wrong OP I have had the same anger and have lashed out at DA partner but somehow I come around after a certain amount of time of self soothing and realize that this person needs love and forgiveness. Also just because she has cut off communication does not mean you were not and still are not important. She subconsciously feels threatened and has put up her automatic response so she can feel safe again. Absolutely. The way any of us come to that realization, though, is by working through the tangle of emotions that are left after most any breakup. To put things into perspective, see the bigger picture, these are all a function of a different part of the brain than the one that governs emotion. This is the exact reason why factual reaction to an emotional message is unlikely to be processed and is usually counterproductive. tinyrobotman I'm sure that as the emotions die down, you'll come to realize more and more that this is less about her and more about you in terms of why this happened and what your own part in it was that allowed it to. From that point, you'll be able to work on those factors to define what you need in a relationship to lead to a different result. It gets easier with time, and I think a lot of people on here are more than willing to help you through that process, each in their own way. |
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Post by scheme00 on Apr 17, 2018 5:19:01 GMT
Come back juniper.
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Post by tinyrobotman on Apr 17, 2018 5:30:19 GMT
Flic, I don't know. I hope it wasn't a mod thing? Did they get annoyed with us? Yes, come back junpier.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 6:39:26 GMT
The problem in such situations is that one person is giving too much, usually without the other person asking for it. I've been there too.
Your driving force was a hope there will be something more, you were left with craving. She had no reason to crave more (you), she had everything. Perhaps, she wouldn't even want it if she had to pay any price for it.
You got caught up in your own perception and failed to see hers. If you stopped doing everything for her, she probably would have started to seek it (and you would have had a place to start) or she wouldn't have given a damn. You would have known it's only friendship.
DAs often don't know what healthy boundaries are, how to show compassion, or how to mind other person's feeling- it's something you learn from your caregivers and their caregivers often failed at providing them anything but abuse. It absolutely doesn't mean that they don't care or that they're heartless monsters.
She might not have acted mindful and 'fair' but it wasn't her responsibility to protect you. You are the one who has to protect yourself, take care of your own boundaries and keep them, people don't owe you anything.
I also wouldn't blame everything on attachment trauma. Sometimes you simply aren't compatible with each other. A man can be 'perfect', attractive and a friend and he still might not be what I'm looking for, what I want from SO, what I'm willing to settle for. You can't make someone love you- it's a sad truth.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 17, 2018 10:33:30 GMT
Flic, I don't know. I hope it wasn't a mod thing? Did they get annoyed with us? Yes, come back junpier. It wasn't a mod thing.....she would have deleted her account. She may be taking a break, it has happened with other members. I also would love to see her come back.😀 |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 17, 2018 12:27:52 GMT
"As for juniper, I totally agree with what she said. I am AP in a relationship with an DA. I work really hard on myself and in trying to understand him. It is very difficult to read AP's stories of DA's. It seems like they feel they have an excuse for their issues as it's "just the way they are" but the DA just doesn't care about anyone. Just a reminder, AP's and DA's are just two sides of the same coin. Both have the same basic fears. They just learned different coping mechanisms. DA's feel just as much as AP's. It is not easier for them at all."
I think part of the dynamic is that we find a lot more posters with an AP attachment style trying to understand "what happened"...but we don't find a lot of posters with DA attachment style coming here for the same thing. I agree that initially the jist of many posts is " what the heck was wrong with him or her"... but the posters who stay do tend over time to develop more of an appreciation for what their role was in the dynamic and working to change it.
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Post by serene13 on Apr 17, 2018 16:57:30 GMT
Oh man - I also would love to see Juniper come back! The girl is thoughtful and obviously puts a lot of effort and thought into her replies and comments - she is honest and direct which I have found to be a common thread in the DAs I've known. I respect that and always appreciate her perspective  |
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Post by tinyrobotman on Apr 17, 2018 21:45:31 GMT
"She is also slightly aspergers"..... I can understand that it is easy to confuse asperger with DA. Aspergers and DA are to different things. The asperger brain is wired different than a NT brain. Asperger is a lifelong disorder. Mind blindness : heartlessaspergers.com/mindblind-means-they-cant-see-you/I think someone can be both and I would imagine there's a lot of Asperger's who have attachment issues of various kinds. She has many Asperger's traits and she has many DA traits so I stand by my evaluation. She's a pretty unique person which is probably part of why i find her interesting. |
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Post by annieb on Apr 17, 2018 23:43:50 GMT
Hi, So I recently discovered attachment styles as I've been trying to sort through the fallout from the breakdown of what I would call something more than a friendship and less than a relationship with a DA women I've known for eight years. She's also likely slightly Aspergers. I'm interested in thoughts about how to handle this, I'm likely on the AP side of things. Here's my story: Almost eight years ago I dated a women for about six months. Things sort of fizzled out and went from dating to sort of FWB to a few hook ups and hanging out. It seemed like I was always trying to figure out where she stood on the relationship and didn't receive much assurance back and not a lot of feedback on what she needed. It seemed like every date was almost like starting over especially with physical intimacy and figuring out if she was into what I was doing in the bedroom. Over the course of the six months neither of us told each other we loved each other. After the relationship ended we became friends and would hang out, go out to dinner and became very emotionally open and supportive with each other and what was happening in our lives. Over the last seven years we became closer and closer and really became true best friends and emotional confidants. We had our inside jokes, would text everyday and spend around three days a week together. We both dated people, but nothing ever seemed to go anywhere for either of us. We would talk about building a house or duplex together with two "wings". She seemed to always want me close, but not too close. A few years ago we even spent a couple of night cuddling in bed together. However she would be clear to say I shouldn't be confused by spending the night cuddling. I spent a lot of time doing things for her around the house and in most ways we were almost like boyfriend and girlfriend. Her body language was always very intimate and open with me. A few years ago I realized I was starting to have feelings for my friend. When I brought it up in a sort of "hey why aren't we a thing we are so close" kind of way she would go sort of blank and just said that she just didn't feel that way about me and I would just let it go. This sort of non-relationship relationship went on this way until a few months ago when she met a guy she really clicked with. All of a sudden I was completely heartbroken that I losing the most important person in my life. When she told me she didn't seem to have a clue that this would be devastating to me and during this whole thing she's been very emotionless and said things like "I can keep my emotions separate". I took some time apart from her to try and recover. However the next time I saw her I completely lost it (she tried to comfort me, but it seemed weirdly forced, like she knew that's what she was supposed to do but didn't really understand it). I'm now taking more time apart, however I recently had a relapse and texted her looking for reassurance. She responded with a brutal text along the lines of I can't be there for you, you choose to take time apart and it's unfair of you to expect anything from me. Looking for answers to her behavior both during this "breakup" and our years as "friends" lead me to read about attachment style and particularly avoidants. Looking back I see that she's strongly DA with some FA tendencies. She would always talk about how independent she is, how her parents never helped her and how much she admired strong individualists and selfishness (think Any Rand). She likes to work alone, has said she doesn't know if she could live with someone. She bristles at the idea of anyone relying on her and hates babies. She lacks empathy to a shocking degree. She would always find fault with people she dated and was looking for the perfect "soulmate" but she was always pessimistic that she would ever find anyone. She's been basically single for a very long time. I remember there was one guy she dated who would have been great for her, very patient introspective guy but there were little things he did that she used that as a reason she wasn't attracted to him. Also, she kept saying, he's great but I wish he would quit telling me he loves me. Her family history is a real mess as well and she grew up in an abusive home. All seems like it points to her being strongly avoidant? I found myself wondering why she didn't become attracted to me or want to explore a relationship when her an I became very close (perhaps closer than in my previous long term relationship). It's not like we were never physical in the past so I don't think she finds me repulsive and no she's not out of my league. We got along great and had closely aligned life goals and values but she just always seemed to have this barrier up about her and I committing and having any physical relationship. She would tell me that we could share a house but couldn't ever have sex. When I would start dating someone she would always joke about how my date would steal her away from her but she would never make a bid for me. It seems she was very happy to have me there as a substitute boyfriend for all this years as long as I never wanted a commitment or a real relationship or really asked her for anything at all. We always had to accommodate her preferences in whatever we did (often they aligned but still). Looking at it from the attachment point of view it seems like she couldn't handle the idea of becoming dependent on someone so close to her? Also I'm guessing my own AP traits prevented me from pushing the issue for fear she would end our "friendship". I tend to be timid when asking for what I need in a relationship and don't want to rock the boat. The question is what do I do now? I feel like she was just using me all these years until someone who she can idealize as being the "one" came along. Honestly I almost feel bad for the guy she's seeing. She already has a laundry list of things he's going to have to change to accommodate her and she is sure "it won't work out because it never does". The minute I asked for something and created a bit of emotional turmoil between her and I she just tossed me aside both on a fake relationship level and a best friends for 7 years level. I almost feels like her and I's "whatever it was" for so many years was just a lie. Was my AP self being set off by all this or did I really love her? Should I just cut all ties and do my best to move on or somehow try and salvage a friendship out of this disaster? Honestly this feels worse than any breakups of real relationships I've been in because it feels so out of the blue and so unnecessary. Thanks, - Tiny You don't do anything. You have to take responsibility for your part in this. You chose to stay in a non-relationship and it worked for you also. If it hadn't worked for you, you would have left a long time ago. It's not on her to re-assure you that this was ever going anywhere. When you realized you were having feelings for her, you should have walked away. I am sorry you are in pain and hurting now, we have all been here. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 0:10:54 GMT
Hello tinyrobotman, I am Avoidant-ish and I sympathized with you. There was a older brother figure in my life who was a bit like you. I was very supportive of him when he was fresh out of university and job-hunting, I made him rehearse interviews with me, piled him with news journals, etc. He fell in love with me but I wasn't so into him due to fears of his reputation with women, and he likes corny jokes while I was in a period where I was a rebellious cyberpunk.  He was devastated when I moved on - he crashed his car and was almost killed on his way on the day I was going to introduce my new boyfriend to him, my "brother".  Fast forward years later...he got happily married with children while I reeled from a terrible relationship with a NPD man. I wonder if I had regrets? He would have been a very dear partner, and we always were good to each other. However, I absolutely shut down all thoughts because his wife and children are so lovely, he has a good life, and though he hints heavily at getting together, more than before, I pushed him to the friendzone, for his own good and because I care for him and want his life to be smooth and happy. I don't want you to hold out hopes for this love, because it might end up detrimental for you. However, if you had shared several great years together, it surely means a lot to her. You never know, she might think about you that way someday, but please move on with your life for now as she has moved on with hers. Your years of caring for each other though, are not in vain. You both grew from it. You will always mean something to her, as well as the times you spent together. Move on with this wistful love in your thought, but move on, please. |
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Post by Jaeger on Apr 18, 2018 7:55:44 GMT
@curious beautifully spoken. Corny jokes are awesome, though 😉
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Post by meimei on Apr 18, 2018 16:50:45 GMT
Tinyrobotman,
I’m sorry to hear your struggles. And I don’t necessarily feel it’s all your fault, nor hers either. I can relate somewhat...
I had a longterm friendships with a man, whom at several points, expressed romantic feelings towards me. Both times, I let him know and was very clear to him, that I did not feel the same way towards him. He said he did not want to lose our friendship and we continued on, confiding in each other and doing everything together as best friends normally do. But I will admit, at times, I could tell he was struggling. And yet, my attitude was not very empathetic as I often thought to myself “Hey, this is not my fault if you can’t handle your emotions. I already told you how I feel. So whatever happens from now, is on you.” But unlike your story, I never hooked up with this man and was very careful to not send across mixed signals to him. And I did remain friends with him while having a boyfriend at one point.
After 9 years though, my friend broke down - crying to me, telling me how much he loved me and how he didn’t think he could carry on being friends anymore. My response was cold (which is weird because I’m an AP). I didn’t have much to say to him and was rather dismissive towards his feelings. It’s not that I didn’t care, but I was angry at him for ruining a perfectly good friendship, and over what - his inability to get his feelings in check?
To this day, we are still no longer friends. But I was able to reflect on my actions and or lack of, and realize my part in it all. And I do regret acting so cold to him when he cried (because I did care but just couldn’t show it). He didn’t deserve to be treated in that manner, and I feel ashamed for how I behaved.
It would be easy to say it was all his fault but I feel that I had a part in it too. When I saw him struggling, instead of staying in denial and telling myself it’s not my problem - how this is not my responsibility, I could have handled it better. I could have had a talk with him. Maybe the nicest thing I could have done, was to be less selfish, perhaps distance myself and or let him go... But I would have explained myself first and been more empathetic to his feelings and personal struggles, so that when we did part ways, he’d know that this decision was based off kindness and thoughtfulness.
Some people feel that we are not responsible for another persons feelings but I have chosen to be more mindful when possible. It’s a new attitude that I adopted for myself after losing a friend who was very dear to me.
Tinyrobotman, everyone process things differently and often times we grow from our experiences. This friend of yours may have come across cold to you, but this doesn’t necessarily reflect how she feels inside. While she may never develop romantic feelings for you (take her for her word), it’s likely she had some level of awareness for your struggles and didn’t know how to deal with it.
Best of luck. I sympathize with what you are going through.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 22:39:41 GMT
Juniper, thanks for the reply. It's funny because the willingness to openly challenge me was one of the things I appreciated so much about her and I guess DA's in general. In a way I sort of need that because I get so wrapped up in my own overthinking crap. I've had dating relationships with other AP's and it's a non-challenging bore. I know I posted a bunch of stuff about her dysfunction in my post, because that's what I'm here to talk about (well and I guess my own as well). However I do think the world of her and she has so so many amazing qualities that I didn't post about. I wouldn't be so distraught if I didn't think she was something unique and special in this world of sameness. As for my AP tendencies. Yep, that's definitely something I need to deal with. I think it tends to put off a lot of perspective relationships so I end up putting up with dysfunctional ones. Scheme, yes a few weeks ago after I calmed down from her terrible text message response I thought "well at least maybe that shows she cares". Learning about attachment styles really was helpful since her response was almost textbook for a deeply hurt DA. She's been completely stoic through this whole thing up until that message. I just wish that DA's could just express that they're feeling strong emotion directly instead of just trying to suppress it. I'm guessing I wouldn't have been nearly as activated if she had. Anyway, I had the thought that if I'm ever ready to repair the friendship I should just start with apology and understanding. Maybe the loss of our friendship is actually effecting her deep down even if she didn't show it. We've been each others emotional support animals for a long time now. i understand very well what you are saying about this bond you have shared. i agree with the beautiful postings that follow which validate both it and the growth you both have experienced even without the desired outcome, and i believe that the gifts you have given each other will be opened individually over time. i appreciate what you said about her personally. i am sure she is an enigma, a maddening and painful muse, but also a beautiful creature who captured your heart. I am sorry you are mourning. i know you are cut deeply by the loss of her. I hope you two can enjoy some renewed and transformed connection over time. Friends are deeply important to a DA. They are our diamonds. I have come back to the forum to deal with deep pain and my own triggers in the DA support forum. I am glad we interacted and i hope you can understand both my pain at negative characterizations of DA souls and also my true intention to provide helpful input to you. This is a good community and i hope you can find support here while you heal. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 23:02:05 GMT
also thank you to all who shared the love with me . i have had a personally painful situation that triggered deactivation and am focusing on my healing in the support forum so i don't hurt my relationship with old stuff. thank you for your kindness and the support you have shown me also, and i am so glad that i have been able to offer some helpful perspectives as you work to understand the Mystery DA in your lives, i get that we can be unfathomable. But if you took our hearts out of our rib cages they would look just like yours, please try to remember that we are also injured and lenses we view others with can create a lot of misunderstanding. Hugs to all. May we heal.
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He was devastated when I moved on - he crashed his car and was almost killed on his way on the day I was going to introduce my new boyfriend to him, my "brother". 