|
|
Post by mrob on May 11, 2018 14:37:42 GMT
The behaviour can look the same, it’s where the behaviour comes from, if you know what I mean. Read the definitions in Jeb’s book. They’re right on. If you haven’t read the book, I suggest you do.
|
|
|
|
Post by leavethelighton on May 12, 2018 0:08:25 GMT
Fara, maybe this is the DA side of me speaking, but what does "in love" even mean? What were you asking him really? Did you mean did he have intense desire for you at all times? That might not even really be love, and it's probably not realistic to expect someone to sustain that.
And no, I don't think people either are or aren't in love. IF you're in a long-term relationship (years) you will cycle through desire, lust, neutrality, serenity, anger, frustration, desire, love, etc. etc. You're unlikely to stay in some shining state of unwavering love (but again, what does love MEAN?) unless you're like a lucky 1% of the human population.
People experience "love" differently. I think their actions matter more than whether or not they can say they are "in love" into perpetuity.
|
|
fara
New Member
Posts: 19
|
Post by fara on May 13, 2018 21:18:40 GMT
i think being in love means different things to different people. to me, it means thinking about the person when you're not together, and noticing little things or quirks about them that make you happy when you're near them. to me it also means that they become very special to me, and that i want to be around them more than i would want to be around other people. but when i'm in love, this is just my personal thing, i don't like to be around the other person all the time. i do need more space than most people would for some reason.
for my ex, he told me that being in love for him meant that you spend a lot of time with that person and that you see each other almost every single day.
i really just told him that i was in love with him (this was before i knew he was avoidant, and i would have done things a lot differently had i known this at the time) and then he responded on his own. he seemed scared now that i think about it, but it came out as anger.
i will just accept it for what it was. i know he cared about me a hell of a lot. and he did things for me that he never did for his other exes. so i will try to remember that going forward. knowing that it was real, even if we experience love differently.
|
|
robin
New Member
Posts: 14
|
Post by robin on May 14, 2018 17:41:56 GMT
The compassion drippeth. Thanks for the language, by the way. Hey mrob , I'm sorry for the language. An explanation, not an excuse: for AP's or secures that are unaware of attachment styles, avoidants (fearful and dismissive) act in ways that seem inexplicable. I have learned a lot since I first visited this forum and I have more compassion now. I cannot intuitively understand how an avoidant feels, however by way of my own anxiety I can empathise. It is absolutely a reflex, to feel fear. I am very sympathetic because it isn't easy to change attachment styles. I cannot imagine that any secure person would be compelled to relentlessly analyse why an avoidant behaves as they do. AP's here do so because they sincerely want to know what they could have done differently. This forum is an enlightening resource and I am deeply appreciative for the insights of its avoidant members like yourself, mrob . It takes both sides, I know. The best threads here are those where both AP's and avoidants patiently explain their inner workings to each other. |
|
|
|
Post by mrob on May 14, 2018 22:59:00 GMT
The really sad part is that there’s often nothing an AP could do differently without selling their soul down the river. Not having any needs met and being eternally dissatisfied. For me, that was the saddest part about reading Jeb’s book. That there wasn’t a lot of hope. I thought I’d be different with the knowledge, but have proven that I still sctivate in the same way, at the same tiriggers, over and over again. That’s why I’m in therapy. I have no chance of giving anyone else a proper deal in s relationship, myself included without some sort of movement across the spectrum.
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on May 15, 2018 0:38:26 GMT
The really sad part is that there’s often nothing an AP could do differently without selling their soul down the river. Not having any needs met and being eternally dissatisfied. For me, that was the saddest part about reading Jeb’s book. That there wasn’t a lot of hope. I thought I’d be different with the knowledge, but have proven that I still sctivate in the same way, at the same tiriggers, over and over again. That’s why I’m in therapy. I have no chance of giving anyone else a proper deal in s relationship, myself included without some sort of movement across the spectrum. And yet....I will take those words if spoken by my partner...and interpret them to keep trying because I tend "not" to give up on someone I am attached to. Congratulations...you just activated my "I can save you" complex.....where is my cape?! LOL 😜 Just being honest. |
|
flic
Full Member
Posts: 119
|
Post by flic on May 15, 2018 1:10:25 GMT
The really sad part is that there’s often nothing an AP could do differently without selling their soul down the river. Not having any needs met and being eternally dissatisfied. For me, that was the saddest part about reading Jeb’s book. That there wasn’t a lot of hope. I thought I’d be different with the knowledge, but have proven that I still sctivate in the same way, at the same tiriggers, over and over again. That’s why I’m in therapy. I have no chance of giving anyone else a proper deal in s relationship, myself included without some sort of movement across the spectrum. Your comment makes me feel so sad, not just for you but for everyone suffering attachment wounds. The unconsciousness of it seems so unfair. But, the fact you are in therapy is hope. The fact you post on here and people learn so much from you, is hope. From my perspective, the only thing an AP can do differently is to just be compassionate, as we all should be, even after the relationship ends. It's all we can ever give each other, regardless of whether we can make the relationships work. |
|
|
|
Post by mrob on May 15, 2018 2:41:17 GMT
The really sad part is that there’s often nothing an AP could do differently without selling their soul down the river. Not having any needs met and being eternally dissatisfied. For me, that was the saddest part about reading Jeb’s book. That there wasn’t a lot of hope. I thought I’d be different with the knowledge, but have proven that I still sctivate in the same way, at the same tiriggers, over and over again. That’s why I’m in therapy. I have no chance of giving anyone else a proper deal in s relationship, myself included without some sort of movement across the spectrum. And yet....I will take those words if spoken by my partner...and interpret them to keep trying because I tend "not" to give up on someone I am attached to. Congratulations...you just activated my "I can save you" complex.....where is my cape?! LOL 😜 Just being honest. And that’s so incredibly lovely and sad at the same time, because there, in a nutshell, is the essence of the push/pull dance. Once I’m activated, it’s really, really hard to come back. Deep down, I want the cape, but am terrified at the same time. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on May 15, 2018 2:54:59 GMT
And yet....I will take those words if spoken by my partner...and interpret them to keep trying because I tend "not" to give up on someone I am attached to. Congratulations...you just activated my "I can save you" complex.....where is my cape?! LOL 😜 Just being honest. And that’s so incredibly lovely and sad at the same time, because there, in a nutshell, is the essence of the push/pull dance. Once I’m activated, it’s really, really hard to come back. Deep down, I want the cape, but am terrified at the same time. And once I have the cape...it is really difficult for me to not blame myself if I don't succeed at making my partner feel better. It is why my positive words come across as so "over the top"...I feel like I have to personally compensate for all the negative stuff that happened to him. It comes from a very sweet place with very sincere intentions....but I know it doesn't come across in the manner it is intended and that makes me sad...because I feel the push and take it so personally because the push feels like rejection. Well..darn it...I am triggered again...bonus points for having activated my "hope" and "caretaker" modes on top of my "I can save you" complex. 😜 |
|
|
|
Post by mrob on May 15, 2018 9:09:56 GMT
Oh no!!! Hahahaha. We shouldbe glad we’re probably on opposite sides of the world!!
Seriously though, I really do take it as it’s intended. Thankyou. When you start expecting me to act in a certain way, to your timeframe, that’s when I won’t be able to see it that way. And that’s when I start thinking that there’s no way in the world I can give a partner what they need, and they should really get on finding someone far less screwed up than me. It sounds like I’m milking this, but I’m trying to give you insight.
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on May 15, 2018 12:54:12 GMT
Oh no!!! Hahahaha. We shouldbe glad we’re probably on opposite sides of the world!! Seriously though, I really do take it as it’s intended. Thankyou. When you start expecting me to act in a certain way, to your timeframe, that’s when I won’t be able to see it that way. And that’s when I start thinking that there’s no way in the world I can give a partner what they need, and they should really get on finding someone far less screwed up than me. It sounds like I’m milking this, but I’m trying to give you insight. I know right...LOL...took 6 hours to calm my hope down...but don't worry....I am not yet ready to transition it off of B, so you are safe.🙂 I actually really appreciate the insight you provide...and it honestly makes sense....what I believe I am giving without any string attached...honestly has a ton of strings attached because...and I literally just thought of this....there is this belief that if my partner is not "all in", that he can just "leave"...like my dad did via the divorce. I will be 3 steps ahead....i will up my game...I will sit in what will feel like agonizing fear with my attachment system telling me something is wrong and must be addressed now...and I will look for ways that my partner may be interested in someone else even if he is not...I will not speak to this...but he will feel it and in his own way speak or act out of me being "way more into him then he is into me" (aka "I can't give you what you need")...but I never realized the next bit..the whole "so you can find someone less wounded then me". Let me just pause for a moment on that mrob...because my heart really wishes I could sit across from you and say this...your wounding isn't what I see...you have it front and center 24/7..and initially it may draw out the cape in me, but I can see past the wounding...I can't speak for others...but if all I saw was the wounding, pppffftt...but what I tend to latch onto is the beauty that actually is a result of that wounding. It tempers pride, it expresses humility, it acknowledges hurt, it allows for deeper care and love...ok, I will get off my soap box now...but you get my drift. And yes, I wax way sentimental and way romantic...and I have just the hardest time honing in on the right words that will express the feelings..and I will overshoot time and time again. I don't have the ability to temper it down to a more reasonable package...but it is a sincere statement that I develop a very strong belief in and for my partner...and I know I scare him, just as I likely have scared you. The issue for me isn't that I will see the good in my partner, it will be that I tend to push aside/tolerate/makes excuses for/justify the...let's call them "less desirable" traits and coping mechanisms that are employed to keeping the wounding at bay. Somehow I also believe that if I balance the good with the bad, I won't be able to make my partner feel the good...that he will latch onto me seeing and pointing out the bad and it will simply feel like when he was a child....not being seen for who he is. Lots of work needed there for me. So now that I am back to being triggered again...this is going to be just a very fun day I can tell....I am going to get going on my day. |
|
|
|
Post by mrob on May 15, 2018 15:05:09 GMT
I simply don’t know what to say. Thank you. I’m just so sorry that love is pain in some ways for you, too. That there is little rest. I’ve never seen it from this way before. Thankyou.
|
|
fara
New Member
Posts: 19
|
Post by fara on May 15, 2018 22:25:18 GMT
Oh no!!! Hahahaha. We shouldbe glad we’re probably on opposite sides of the world!! Seriously though, I really do take it as it’s intended. Thankyou. When you start expecting me to act in a certain way, to your timeframe, that’s when I won’t be able to see it that way. And that’s when I start thinking that there’s no way in the world I can give a partner what they need, and they should really get on finding someone far less screwed up than me. It sounds like I’m milking this, but I’m trying to give you insight. thank you mrob for your extremely helpful pov. i suspect you are very similar to my ex, so everything you say really resonates for me. when i remember that you say love and attachment mean pain for you, it reminds me to be compassionate towards my ex when i get angry over old memories. i think the fact that you're aware is so important, because i really don't think my ex is aware. he just says "something is wrong with him" and that "he's not good with girls," but i feel like if he at least knew the term dismissive or fearful avoidant, he could start to dig deeper like you have. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on May 16, 2018 1:34:33 GMT
I simply don’t know what to say. Thank you. I’m just so sorry that love is pain in some ways for you, too. That there is little rest. I’ve never seen it from this way before. Thankyou. I think deep down, for many of us...love is a risk and feels like a crapshoot. But Thank You so much for seeing the effort and giving a voice to it. |
|
|
|
Post by leavethelighton on May 17, 2018 0:23:49 GMT
The compassion drippeth. Thanks for the language, by the way. . . . . I cannot imagine that any secure person would be compelled to relentlessly analyse why an avoidant behaves as they do. AP's here do so because they sincerely want to know what they could have done differently. This forum is an enlightening resource and I am deeply appreciative for the insights of its avoidant members like yourself, mrob . It takes both sides, I know. The best threads here are those where both AP's and avoidants patiently explain their inner workings to each other. Wow, this is so true. I've spent so much of my life relentlessly analyzing the "why." It can seem so important to know it, to figure it out, to really UNDERSTAND. It has taken me a long time to really accept that there are situations I will not be able to understand. It's true, I never want to give up. It can be very difficult to really accept that we can or should give up. I recently gave up on a friendship after 10 years of the struggle, and only because something about an entire decade made me realize how long 10 years is. Like, if someone wanted you in their life, they'd figure it out in less than 10 years, right? Do I really have to give up??? (kidding) |
|
