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Post by seeking on Dec 28, 2021 12:01:59 GMT
Yeah, the best place for me, sadly, is she and I not really talking. Or talking very intermittently. Somehow, imbued in every single even mundane exchange with her, there is pain - it is like my ex. The exact feeling. There is a feeling of underlying hatred of some sort. Disdain (maybe hatred is too strong a word). But it is masked in these mundane exchanges. I don't even know how that is possible. Like if I had to try to make myself do that to someone, I couldn't. And maybe it's not conscious - I guess it's really not. I just don't get what it would be about though. It's honestly one of the worst feelings and feels like it gives me PTSD. I'm a pretty introverted/neurodivergent mind-my-own-business person and yet somehow I'm really judged and disliked in ways I can't put a finger on. I guess "disapproved of" feels like it rings a bell.
My sister can tell me just how amazing, cute, sweet, all these other people are. But nothing to me. My dad is the same. My ex the same. To them, I'm really awful. So is it projection? I don't know.
And as much as I hate to say this - esp because my dad just almost died 2x in the past several months - without them in my world, I really feel like so much trauma would life from me. And yet no contact feels very challenging to me. (Maybe not with my ex, although he's a narc, and that would stir up too much power stuff if I really told him I want no contact -- I try to have the least amount as possible)
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Post by annieb on Dec 28, 2021 12:55:42 GMT
It is a projection of their own self hatred onto you. They pick you because they know you won’t protest. Sorry it’s so short, I’m running out the door:(
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 28, 2021 14:36:34 GMT
Yeah, the best place for me, sadly, is she and I not really talking. Or talking very intermittently. Somehow, imbued in every single even mundane exchange with her, there is pain - it is like my ex. The exact feeling. There is a feeling of underlying hatred of some sort. Disdain (maybe hatred is too strong a word). But it is masked in these mundane exchanges. I don't even know how that is possible. Like if I had to try to make myself do that to someone, I couldn't. And maybe it's not conscious - I guess it's really not. I just don't get what it would be about though. It's honestly one of the worst feelings and feels like it gives me PTSD. I'm a pretty introverted/neurodivergent mind-my-own-business person and yet somehow I'm really judged and disliked in ways I can't put a finger on. I guess "disapproved of" feels like it rings a bell. My sister can tell me just how amazing, cute, sweet, all these other people are. But nothing to me. My dad is the same. My ex the same. To them, I'm really awful. So is it projection? I don't know. And as much as I hate to say this - esp because my dad just almost died 2x in the past several months - without them in my world, I really feel like so much trauma would life from me. And yet no contact feels very challenging to me. (Maybe not with my ex, although he's a narc, and that would stir up too much power stuff if I really told him I want no contact -- I try to have the least amount as possible) Can you block your ex? Or simply not respond? The narc I “dated” moved on once I stopped responding.
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Post by seeking on Dec 28, 2021 15:34:11 GMT
It is a projection of their own self hatred onto you. They pick you because they know you won’t protest. Sorry it’s so short, I’m running out the door:( Yeah, that feels heartbreaking - somehow their suffering just feels really heartbreaking. I guess I feel - not responsible for it but, I don't know, sad for them.
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Post by seeking on Dec 28, 2021 15:34:34 GMT
Can you block your ex? Or simply not respond? The narc I “dated” moved on once I stopped responding. No, unfortunately. We have a kid together.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2021 16:06:07 GMT
It is a projection of their own self hatred onto you. They pick you because they know you won’t protest. Sorry it’s so short, I’m running out the door:( I think the pursuit of approval or belonging is natural in family but can become toxic when it becomes a stage for our own rejection of self. That self-shaming and self rejection plays out with unavailable people. What I have experienced is that the world was essentially standing with arms open wide when I stepped out into it, away from my family. I'm not saying it's all candy canes and glitter but what I mean is, I am surrounded by warm and friendly people, they were there waiting for me when I was ready to meet them. When I realized what was holding me back (limited beliefs about myself and relationships) I learned how to transform myself and my relationships. It's less lonely with people who love you for you. Sometimes family is just too traumatized as a unit to be able to see each other the way everyone needs to be seen.
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Post by seeking on Dec 29, 2021 0:58:40 GMT
Introvert - well said! I have some of those friends and, yes, it's a world of difference.
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Post by seeking on Dec 30, 2021 18:39:16 GMT
So two recent classic examples of what goes on with my sister - at least my interpretation of them. Her kids have been sick. She was just at my parents house where my dad had covid - she dropped in quick with dad in another room. She complains that her kids are up all night coughing (complains to me). No idea if they have CV b/c she won't test (which is fine)....says she'll come by tomorrow with the kids. I would say no, but my daughter has been really lonely this week - it's my week off and I told her I'd do stuff with her; and instead I've been having to take care of a number of things that came up. I know my daughter would LOVE to see my nieces, so I'm sucking it up. Which is pretty much the story of my life -- So I just say to my sister it's fine as long as everyone is healthy. I don't can't afford to take off work or don't want to be sick for my birthday next week. She texts "everyone is healthy." Then last night is texting me but it is meant for someone else about how run down she is and what should she take. And I write back, "Yeah, that's what I mean - if you're kids are sick, eventually you will be too." - and she says "Ugh" - "That text was meant for someone else. It's just my lyme stuff." And then says, "It's from WORRYING ABOUT EVERYONE!" (meaning my dad, etc) This just isn't a safe person for me. And while I've had issues labeling her or having boundaries, etc. I think that statement, at the very least, is true for me. And then - long story short, I had to get involved in my mom's doctors b/c my dad has been really sick with covid. I spent 3 days of my 5 days off trying to find a new kidney doc for my mom. I succeeded, they had a cancellation, she got in today, and I told my dad and he's got his own stupid issues so HE GETS MAD AT ME. My sister says "Well why would you even tell him?" I told him because it never even occurs to me to manipulate information - she does stuff like that. I don't. So whatever. My mom has her appointment today. I got to be on the phone the whole time we solved A LOT - my mom was so relieved and happy. She goes and tells my sister - fine. My sister writes me on FB messenger, and says "Mom really loved the doc. Aw." And I say "Yeah." That's all I really had to say. But then she says maybe the chiropractor can sort her out in January. And so I started leaving voice memos for my sister - like 2-3 to update her on all that happened with the doc. She writes me mid-recording and says "I can't really listen." So I keep recording and say "Oh, you can just listen whenever." And she sends me a whole text back to say "I can't really listen because I always have the kids with me [which actually isn't true] and it zaps my brain when I am holding the phone to my head like that." ?? So I stop recording mid-sentence when I was talking about my mom's meds. And just left it. And now she wrote me back but I don't even want to look. Historically what happens in times like this, is that I'm now the bad guy - I'm sensitive and reactive. And "calm down already." I give up. I hate texting. All she wants to do is text. There is no way I could have texted everything I was trying to tell her. And she won't ever answer her phone. If she does, she answers it saying "I can't talk." Anyway, really just needed to vent. After her kids come over tomorrow and now that my dad is on the mend and my mom's stuff is getting sorted out, I'll have no reason to be in contact.
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Post by seeking on Dec 30, 2021 18:48:49 GMT
After I wrote this . . . this is what happens. I start to doubt myself. Like Oh, she is just having a boundary. She doesn't like voice recordings, just like I don't like text, and it is on me, and I should respect that. I'm the problem.
It also brings up the trigger of "I'm too intense" The button my friend (that I've been writing about in my other post) pushed recently. I'm "too much" - should "keep it light."
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Post by alexandra on Dec 30, 2021 20:03:55 GMT
seeking, please don't have her come over without testing her kids for covid first. We're having a huge wave spike, at least in most of America. There's a decent chance they have it, and even if they don't, it's a really bad social practice to show up for things as normal when contagiously sick. That's one of the reasons we're still in this pandemic mess. It's not culturally like that everywhere, I don't know why it's "okay" to not have respect for other people in other places. Though I guess it's ultimately to normalize not letting people take time off from work.
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Post by seeking on Dec 30, 2021 22:46:21 GMT
seeking , please don't have her come over without testing her kids for covid first. We're having a huge wave spike, at least in most of America. There's a decent chance they have it, and even if they don't, it's a really bad social practice to show up for things as normal when contagiously sick. That's one of the reasons we're still in this pandemic mess. It's not culturally like that everywhere, I don't know why it's "okay" to not have respect for other people in other places. Though I guess it's ultimately to normalize not letting people take time off from work. Thanks, Alexandra.
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Post by seeking on Dec 30, 2021 23:08:02 GMT
Any input on the dynamic with my sister is still welcome - tomorrow was kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme (she's not coming).
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Post by seeking on Dec 30, 2021 23:14:16 GMT
All right, well. I just said something to her that's pretty unreasonable, I guess. It really leaves us nowhere to go. But I guess that's also reality. In reality, there has been nowhere to go. It just hurts my heart for our kids who are bonded and love each other. And my daughter whose loneliness/mental health right now is a big concern.
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Post by seeking on Dec 30, 2021 23:15:14 GMT
It's funny because I just said something to my daughter's father too - not anything harsh - and at the same time, they both wrote back - my sister and my ex and wrote "huh" no punctuation.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 30, 2021 23:21:35 GMT
seeking You're replaying the same old script with her which is the routine that defines your relationship. When you deviate from it, she gets upset because what has worked for her is what works for her. It isn't fair or healthy but she's not going to bend or stretch to see anyone else's point of view because it makes her too uncomfortable or she simply can't. To have her in your life, even though it falls short of the fantasy definition of "sister," you are conditioned to keep responding this way (giving in, blaming yourself for being too intense, wondering if you're the one with the problem and her boundaries are healthy and secure). I don't think you've fully accepted this is who she is and decided on the kind of relationship you can tolerate to have with her going forward, which is why you keep going back and forth. I believe I've cautioned you before and I will do it again that your child does not live in a vacuum. I speak from personal experience that she will internalize all the dysfunctional behavior she sees in your extended family because it's what she knows and is normalized. So keep providing her guidance around what are healthy boundaries and acceptable behaviors and what aren't. It doesn't mean she shouldn't have a relationship with her troubled family members, but she needs context for when they act this way so that she doesn't seek familiarity in similar people when she's a grown up because it will make her life a lot harder. My parents did their best but truly had no idea that their families were as screwed up as they were, and it did a lot to contribute to me not having boundaries with dysfunctional people when I got older. Because it seemed normal. This hampered both my dating life and my career. I also agree with everything @introvert said which is why I hadn't commented at first. You and any siblings all grew up with the same dysfunction, though you each may have chosen to handle it differently (both due to genetic / personality factors as well as kids often do get treated slightly differently from each other in households like this, assigned their roles, especially if there's a golden child and scapegoat dynamic applied by the parents). You've struggled and not been okay, though you're trying to confront it and overcome it. It sounds like your sister has done the same, but dug into herself instead of facing it. It also goes back to accepting her for exactly who she is, and deciding on your own boundaries and how you want a relationship with her to look that's comfortable for you given her limitations. There will be a wide discrepancy between the fantasy relationship you want and what you actually get, and it's okay to mourn that too if you need to. I'm glad they're waiting to visit until everyone is healthy, and I hope the kids feel better soon!
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