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Post by tnr9 on Dec 11, 2017 3:32:57 GMT
Hi all...I am new here...and I am really curious. I see so many people post who have been in relationships with DAs that did not work out...but I would love to understand from the DAs on this board what you feel you need in order to build a long lasting relationship.
Thank you you so much in advance for replying.
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Post by Jaeger on Dec 11, 2017 8:40:58 GMT
Since putting too much emotional pressure on a DA will trigger their defense mechanism and avoidant behaviour, the short and simple answer is doing everything on their terms and not expecting to get your emotional needs met inside the relationship.
Of course, there are some DA's who are aware of their own patterns and actively working to change, where a certain degree of negotiation is possible, but that will usually not be enough for people that want and look for intense emotional connection and support. No one attachment style is better than the other, but some combinations make it a lot harder to create two happy partners than others.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 15:55:14 GMT
I don't think that emotional pressure is needed or healthy in any relationship. A lot of secures will not respond well to emotional pressure either. The answer for me is slow and steady. APs in my past have been prone to emotional outbursts, ultimatums, and manipulation to try to get the emotional response they are looking for. It doesn't work for me. What works is time to get to know the person, calmly explaining what they need and why they need it without pressure. I think a secure that is independent, doesn't need constant reassurance, and is not dependent on one person to get all of their emotional needs met is a good pairing for an avoidant.
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Post by Jaeger on Dec 11, 2017 16:14:05 GMT
I don't think that emotional pressure is needed or healthy in any relationship. A lot of secures will not respond well to emotional pressure either. The answer for me is slow and steady. APs in my past have been prone to emotional outbursts, ultimatums, and manipulation to try to get the emotional response they are looking for. It doesn't work for me. What works is time to get to know the person, calmly explaining what they need and why they need it without pressure. I think a secure that is independent, doesn't need constant reassurance, and is not dependent on one person to get all of their emotional needs met is a good pairing for an avoidant. The main difference here is that, though everyone responds negatively to emotional pressure, an avoidant will experience certain things as emotional pressure that a secure will not. Attempting to get close to someone, sharing deep thoughts and feelings and emotional needs, for instance. The problem here is that for those who aren't avoidant, these tend to be basic relational needs. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 16:23:17 GMT
I don't think that emotional pressure is needed or healthy in any relationship. A lot of secures will not respond well to emotional pressure either. The answer for me is slow and steady. APs in my past have been prone to emotional outbursts, ultimatums, and manipulation to try to get the emotional response they are looking for. It doesn't work for me. What works is time to get to know the person, calmly explaining what they need and why they need it without pressure. I think a secure that is independent, doesn't need constant reassurance, and is not dependent on one person to get all of their emotional needs met is a good pairing for an avoidant. The main difference here is that, though everyone responds negatively to emotional pressure, an avoidant will experience certain things as emotional pressure that a secure will not. Attempting to get close to someone, sharing deep thoughts and feelings and emotional needs, for instance. The problem here is that for those who aren't avoidant, these tend to be basic relational needs. I think it's incorrect to say these are not basic needs for an avoidant as well. It's a matter of how much, timing and presentation. |
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Post by Jaeger on Dec 11, 2017 16:35:27 GMT
The main difference here is that, though everyone responds negatively to emotional pressure, an avoidant will experience certain things as emotional pressure that a secure will not. Attempting to get close to someone, sharing deep thoughts and feelings and emotional needs, for instance. The problem here is that for those who aren't avoidant, these tend to be basic relational needs. I think it's incorrect to say these are not basic needs for an avoidant as well. It's a matter of how much, timing and presentation. Just as I would argue that, given the major differences in 'how much, timing and presentation' can be observed between the attachment styles, the basic needs differ to such a degree that I no longer consider them as being the same. Also, black and white thinking, labeling things as 'incorrect' limits the opportunity for fruitful discussion. It's a difference in viewpoints. Just as I am quite sure we'd come up with very different definitions of what 'truly loving' someone entails. |
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Post by yasmin on Dec 11, 2017 16:46:43 GMT
Yes, I definitely think different people experience different things as emotional pressure and there doesn't have to be screaming, tantrums, ultimatums or emotional displays involved for someone to get freaked out by things that might seem normal to others.
As an example, when we were first dating I told him if he wanted our relationship to be of a sexual nature, I was only able to offer that in an exclusive dating situation. I could see he found commitment threatening so I explained that it did not mean commitment, it only meant that I was simply not interested in having sex with someone else who may or may not go on a date with someone else tomorrow! I stated this very calmly and with a lot of patience. His response was that I was asking for too much too soon, that it was too emotionally intense, that I wasn't allowing him to be slow and steady and I could see he was extremely uncomfortable and stressed out.
My reality was that I was simply stating understandable boundaries for my own emotional health and his perception was of an ultimatum. I don't think he wanted to date anyone else, but in his mind agreeing to exclusivity was much too much of an expectation from me and he could just not see my point of view. I remember clearly at the time not getting annoyed or upset because it was pretty obvious that he was feeling very threatened and conflicted.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 11, 2017 16:47:23 GMT
I don't think that emotional pressure is needed or healthy in any relationship. A lot of secures will not respond well to emotional pressure either. The answer for me is slow and steady. APs in my past have been prone to emotional outbursts, ultimatums, and manipulation to try to get the emotional response they are looking for. It doesn't work for me. What works is time to get to know the person, calmly explaining what they need and why they need it without pressure. I think a secure that is independent, doesn't need constant reassurance, and is not dependent on one person to get all of their emotional needs met is a good pairing for an avoidant. Hey Mary...I get where you are coming from...and yes.....secures are best for both DAs and APs...if only there were that many secures to go around. But that leads me to a question....if DAs know that APs are going to be "too much" i.e. looking for a greater level of emotional closeness early on in the relationship....then what is the attraction that even makes a DA want to "try" with a AP. Case in point....my last boyfriend stated that he only went out with girls who pursued him.....wouldn't that be an early sign of someone with AP tendencies? So it is almost like a self fulfilling prophecy where the DA feels varying degrees of emotional "pressure" from the AP who feels like the DA isn't all in ( and that heightens the abandonment story). How would you then advise an AP to address the escalating warning bells without driving the DA away? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 16:49:00 GMT
I think it's incorrect to say these are not basic needs for an avoidant as well. It's a matter of how much, timing and presentation. Just as I would argue that, given the major differences in 'how much, timing and presentation' can be observed between the attachment styles, the basic needs differ to such a degree that I no longer consider them as being the same. Also, black and white thinking, labeling things as 'incorrect' limits the opportunity for fruitful discussion. It's a difference in viewpoints. Just as I am quite sure we'd come up with very different definitions of what 'truly loving' someone entails. I did not label it as incorrect. I said "I think it's incorrect" as in, this is my opinion. We may or may not come up with different definitions. You seem very intent on your own viewpoint, which I understand comes from your experience. I am only stating my opinion and I think that different opinions make for a very fruitful discussion. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 17:55:20 GMT
I don't think that emotional pressure is needed or healthy in any relationship. A lot of secures will not respond well to emotional pressure either. The answer for me is slow and steady. APs in my past have been prone to emotional outbursts, ultimatums, and manipulation to try to get the emotional response they are looking for. It doesn't work for me. What works is time to get to know the person, calmly explaining what they need and why they need it without pressure. I think a secure that is independent, doesn't need constant reassurance, and is not dependent on one person to get all of their emotional needs met is a good pairing for an avoidant. Hey Mary...I get where you are coming from...and yes.....secures are best for both DAs and APs...if only there were that many secures to go around. But that leads me to a question....if DAs know that APs are going to be "too much" i.e. looking for a greater level of emotional closeness early on in the relationship....then what is the attraction that even makes a DA want to "try" with a AP. Case in point....my last boyfriend stated that he only went out with girls who pursued him.....wouldn't that be an early sign of someone with AP tendencies? So it is almost like a self fulfilling prophecy where the DA feels varying degrees of emotional "pressure" from the AP who feels like the DA isn't all in ( and that heightens the abandonment story). How would you then advise an AP to address the escalating warning bells without driving the DA away? I think that's the great mystery as to why DA and AP are so attracted to each other at first. It may be that they both know it's a pairing that won't work and then re-creates the story they both know well, abandonment and failed attachments. Also, I think the initial pressure of the AP attracts the DA, because it's a sign that person won't abandon them, which is what they need. The push/pull is somewhat tied to I don't want this person to abandon me, but still pretty sure they will in the end. I have always thought that AP and DA are 2 sides of the same coin. I really don't know if an AP and a DA can work. It never has in my case. For me, the commitment part has grown to be, not a decision after a certain period of time. My current partner never asked me for a "decision" about it. He stated that he would like to be my boyfriend, but if I wasn't ready, he would wait for that, because he knew it would come in time and I was worth the wait. It sort of became a joke between us that he wanted to be my bf "sometimes". It sunk in over time and I was ready to make that jump. I think many APs will see that as doing things on the the DAs terms, but I think the timetables are just so different. Just as the AP doesn't want to be slowed down, the DA doesn't want to be rushed. |
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 11, 2017 18:37:24 GMT
Hey Mary...I get where you are coming from...and yes.....secures are best for both DAs and APs...if only there were that many secures to go around. But that leads me to a question....if DAs know that APs are going to be "too much" i.e. looking for a greater level of emotional closeness early on in the relationship....then what is the attraction that even makes a DA want to "try" with a AP. Case in point....my last boyfriend stated that he only went out with girls who pursued him.....wouldn't that be an early sign of someone with AP tendencies? So it is almost like a self fulfilling prophecy where the DA feels varying degrees of emotional "pressure" from the AP who feels like the DA isn't all in ( and that heightens the abandonment story). How would you then advise an AP to address the escalating warning bells without driving the DA away? I think that's the great mystery as to why DA and AP are so attracted to each other at first. It may be that they both know it's a pairing that won't work and then re-creates the story they both know well, abandonment and failed attachments. Also, I think the initial pressure of the AP attracts the DA, because it's a sign that person won't abandon them, which is what they need. The push/pull is somewhat tied to I don't want this person to abandon me, but still pretty sure they will in the end. I have always thought that AP and DA are 2 sides of the same coin. I really don't know if an AP and a DA can work. It never has in my case. For me, the commitment part has grown to be, not a decision after a certain period of time. My current partner never asked me for a "decision" about it. He stated that he would like to be my boyfriend, but if I wasn't ready, he would wait for that, because he knew it would come in time and I was worth the wait. It sort of became a joke between us that he wanted to be my bf "sometimes". It sunk in over time and I was ready to make that jump. I think many APs will see that as doing things on the the DAs terms, but I think the timetables are just so different. Just as the AP doesn't want to be slowed down, the DA doesn't want to be rushed. Thanks Mary....I can only speak for myself....but the "faster" timetable for me was to secure a commitment from my ex partner. I had hoped that by securing him in the relationship that my abandonment story would subside and I would feel secure. The other, not so pretty side of my version of AP is that my partner becomes like a drug.....I need reassurances from him in order to feel "ok"...seriously.....there were times my anxiety was through the roof...but one text from him and the world was right again. I know that doesn't exactly paint me in the best of light....but it is my truth. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 19:26:54 GMT
I think that's the great mystery as to why DA and AP are so attracted to each other at first. It may be that they both know it's a pairing that won't work and then re-creates the story they both know well, abandonment and failed attachments. Also, I think the initial pressure of the AP attracts the DA, because it's a sign that person won't abandon them, which is what they need. The push/pull is somewhat tied to I don't want this person to abandon me, but still pretty sure they will in the end. I have always thought that AP and DA are 2 sides of the same coin. I really don't know if an AP and a DA can work. It never has in my case. For me, the commitment part has grown to be, not a decision after a certain period of time. My current partner never asked me for a "decision" about it. He stated that he would like to be my boyfriend, but if I wasn't ready, he would wait for that, because he knew it would come in time and I was worth the wait. It sort of became a joke between us that he wanted to be my bf "sometimes". It sunk in over time and I was ready to make that jump. I think many APs will see that as doing things on the the DAs terms, but I think the timetables are just so different. Just as the AP doesn't want to be slowed down, the DA doesn't want to be rushed. Thanks Mary....I can only speak for myself....but the "faster" timetable for me was to secure a commitment from my ex partner. I had hoped that by securing him in the relationship that my abandonment story would subside and I would feel secure. The other, not so pretty side of my version of AP is that my partner becomes like a drug.....I need reassurances from him in order to feel "ok"...seriously.....there were times my anxiety was through the roof...but one text from him and the world was right again. I know that doesn't exactly paint me in the best of light....but it is my truth. I really understand what you have written. I never really thought about how much a simple text could mean. I can only equate this to when my friend is in a bad relationship and they don't answer calls/texts for days and I worry if they are ok. This is why I think it's 2 sides of the same coin. The fears are the same, but the way we deal with them is so different. |
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Post by learningalongtheway on Dec 13, 2017 21:02:11 GMT
Hi all...I am new here...and I am really curious. I see so many people post who have been in relationships with DAs that did not work out...but I would love to understand from the DAs on this board what you feel you need in order to build a long lasting relationship. Thank you you so much in advance for replying. I think APs really need to be honest with themselves about their needs and communicate that to their prospective partner. I know a lot of APs that aren't really aware of what they need. For example, when I first started dating my ex, he mentioned that he "hates overly emotional people". Yet, throughout the relationship, the only time he acknowledged my feelings was when there was an overt display of emotion. Simply telling him how I felt usually meant nothing to him. Of course, ironically, the more calm I tried to be when he had emotional outbursts, the more he viewed me as " uncaring" about how he felt "empathetic" etc. I've realized that he just hated the fact he couldn't control his emotions, which attracted him to someone who was avoidant (me), but he didn't really understand/acknowledge that he WANTS dramatic emotional displays. He would often pick fights to try to make me angry, and admitted to feeding me a lot of alcohol to get me to be more emotional. Second, and tying in with my first point, I think the partner just has to have a lot of patience. Remember where the avoidant is starting from in terms of their ability to communicate and rely on people and measure progress from there, instead of expecting them to change because you bought them flowers on something. Like a dog that grew up wild or in the streets, you wouldn't expect it to immediately trust you or rely on you compared to a dog that's raised in a home. Don't try to manipulate the DA in getting the emotional display you want. If you're AP and that definitely you need, date another person simultaneously, or just don't date DAs. I've already written about this extensively in other posts. - Secures are good at inviting people in to share their thoughts/feeling rather than demanding them
- When the DA does share their feeling, secures don't take it personally if its not what they wanted to hear. ex. the partner saying I'm not ready to do XYZ doesn't trigger emotional outbursts
- Secures are comfortable getting reassurance from people other than their partner
- Secures don't "dump" all their emotions/feelings onto one person
Those area few points but I honestly don't think I can even answer this question at stage in my life. Maybe a DA who is in a successful relationship can. For me, I realize that I will never be able to meet a persons relationship needs, because many people don't even know what their needs are, or they expect a single person to meet them (which is impossible), and because I'm avoidant. And I've learned that when people don't get their needs met they resort to slander, manipulation, and verbal abuse as "punishments". Therefore, I honestly cannot even imagine myself in a relationship, let alone along term healthy one.
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Post by learningalongtheway on Dec 13, 2017 21:04:33 GMT
I don't think that emotional pressure is needed or healthy in any relationship. A lot of secures will not respond well to emotional pressure either. The answer for me is slow and steady. APs in my past have been prone to emotional outbursts, ultimatums, and manipulation to try to get the emotional response they are looking for. It doesn't work for me. What works is time to get to know the person, calmly explaining what they need and why they need it without pressure. I think a secure that is independent, doesn't need constant reassurance, and is not dependent on one person to get all of their emotional needs met is a good pairing for an avoidant. The main difference here is that, though everyone responds negatively to emotional pressure, an avoidant will experience certain things as emotional pressure that a secure will not. Attempting to get close to someone, sharing deep thoughts and feelings and emotional needs, for instance. The problem here is that for those who aren't avoidant, these tend to be basic relational needs. Even APs (subconsciously) know there is such a thing as emotional pressure. If there weren't, wouldn't all APs be in relationships with each other? Experiencing emotional bliss? |
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Post by Jaeger on Dec 13, 2017 21:38:24 GMT
The main difference here is that, though everyone responds negatively to emotional pressure, an avoidant will experience certain things as emotional pressure that a secure will not. Attempting to get close to someone, sharing deep thoughts and feelings and emotional needs, for instance. The problem here is that for those who aren't avoidant, these tend to be basic relational needs. Even APs (subconsciously) know there is such a thing as emotional pressure. If there weren't, wouldn't all APs be in relationships with each other? Experiencing emotional bliss? Actually, Jeb Kinnison's post on this ( jebkinnison.com/2014/05/05/attachment-type-combinations-in-relationships/amp/ ) suggests that AP pairings tend to fall apart due to not being great at anticipating the needs of the other, while greatly focused on sensing their own. |
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