katie
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Post by katie on Feb 18, 2024 8:39:37 GMT
I’ve been on these boards reading other peoples stories since 2020, in the aftermath of my relationship with a DA (not my first one, but definitely the most crazymaking one). Im 41 year old woman with a job that I love and that pays very well compared to wages where I live, financially stable and with many fun interests/hobbies outside of work. I have many close friends and a good relationship with my family (maybe except minor father issues). Im extroverted and I think im funny and warm. Im definitely predominantly AA, but have felt very different in my relationships due to my partners behavior. I have been in secure relationships where I didnt feel stressed at all and I have also been in relationships where contant anxiety caused me to loose 30 pounds in a couple of months. I want to write my story another time for healing purposes and to get new insights and perspectives that I may not have reflected upon yet. English is not my first language so bear with me for vocabulary and grammar. Im afraid the whole story is going to be long and detailed, boring for some and interesting for others. Im working up the stamina to one day sit down and wright it out, but for now i looking for feedback on another thought that is bothering me.
I have worked hard to earn secure since my crazymaking relationship with a DA imploded in 2021. But a recent brief situationship of 5 months has rattled me. I was falling in love with a collegue 10 years younger than me. It was not love or attraction at first sight but after working together for a couple of months I was more and more drawn to his personality. Competent, extrovert with amazing social skills, fun and charismatic. After being in a push/pull dynamics with him over the course of 5 months I ended it. I did this because iI recognized that it is never going to work out with him being DA or FA or simply just interested in a sexual relationship, who knows. In this situationship I behaved secure, I was direct with how I felt, I upheld my boundairies of not wanting a purely sexual relationship. We only slept together once these 5 months and it happened on the evening that I ended it due to the fact that he said to my face (directly after sex) that he never saw something serious with me due to me being so much older than him. Kudos to him for saying it so brutally though, my pride could never keep going after that. So I ended it (no hard feelings or drama in the situation), I just simply stated that because of my feelings for him I wouldnt do myself any favors of continuing a sexual relationship on his terms, that would only lead to heartbreak in the end anyway. I asked to stop contact so that I could get over my feelings and he has respected that. Luck has it that he changed department at work after that (totally unrelated to our history i might add) so I havent seen him since.
My question is: Even though i acted secure the entire duration of our situationship and also after (i dont contact him, i dont stalk social media and so on) it ended, i dont FEEL secure. Im probably in limerence or something similar because I think about him everyday, 100 x times a day, its an obsession with a person I know is not a good match for me and I still have this ridiculous hope that he is going to miss me when enough time has passed and change his mind. My brain is telling me the sensible course of action and im sticking to it (im a very logical person personalitywise), but my feelings hasnt catched up. So for all you guys that have earned secure, when did it embody your feelings aswell as the brain? I want to be put off by bad behavior, i want to get the ick so bad! Instead im just as attracted to him as ever even if i havent been in any form of contact since it ended. So for now im just feeling that im faking secure, its not really true. For refererance I will say that I have always been AA with a lot of self control, i have never double texted in my life or doing any of the behaviors that AA are known for, except staying too long in relationships with men that doesnt feel emotionally safe. But im also proud and independent and I have never been in a emotionally og physically abusive relationships, never attracted to men with personality disorders and so on. Just the elusive DAs that for some reason is my cryptonite. Cant wait the FEEL secure, instead of just portraying it on the outside. Any feedback or insights are greatly appreciated.
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Post by mrob on Feb 18, 2024 9:03:19 GMT
My experience with this stuff is that I can be going along fine and functional, then a situation will come along and I’ll behave in an old way. Thankfully, it generally feels yuck, which gives me a chance to check myself and act accordingly. For me, that’s progress.
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katie
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Post by katie on Feb 18, 2024 9:21:36 GMT
My experience with this stuff is that I can be going along fine and functional, then a situation will come along and I’ll behave in an old way. Thankfully, it generally feels yuck, which gives me a chance to check myself and act accordingly. For me, that’s progress. Ive read your story/comments in here before mrob, always on point and always insightful, thank you for your feedback on my thoughts. Can I just ask if you feel secure when you are triggered in some way (feels yuck) when you preceed to «act accordingly»? I presume that acting accordingly will be to treat oneself with dignity and self respect and with healthy boundaries in place. I just have problems with the gap between my thoughts and my feelings, or maybe I was just hoping to «FEEL accordingly» when someone is not treating me the way that I want. I have female friends that are either DA and secure and what they have in common is an ick for bad behaviour, instantly turned off. My fellow AA friends is not turned off by push/pull dynamics. I want to get there so bad, but is it even possible for someone that leans AA? |
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Post by mrob on Feb 18, 2024 11:02:57 GMT
I think it takes experience. alexandra often talks about the “click” moment. Me, I still have trouble with reconciling not wanting to cohabitate with the fearful aspect of this attachment style. But, I’m a lot better with other parts. |
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katie
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Post by katie on Feb 18, 2024 12:09:45 GMT
I strongly want to get rid of my obsessive thoughts about him, but fear that they will just be replaced with obsessive thoughts about whoever new infantuation comes in to my life. Its been 4 months since we ended btw, still waiting for that «click-moment» i guess hehe
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Post by introvert on Feb 18, 2024 14:41:31 GMT
It's interesting you didn't relay to us the feelings you had when he rejected you. Are you afraid to feel, or afraid to be vulnerable about it? He didn't just bruise your pride, he opened up an attachment wound. So that's going to involve many intense feelings, including grief, shame, anger, etc. I think if you want to feel secure you will need to first allow the feelings into it, and go back to the source.
If by chance you felt humiliated here you may wish that he would turn it around so that your shame and humiliation could be resolved. That doesn't have to be a conscious thought, it may be your system attaching thoughts (I love him, and I want a happily ever after!) to feelings (I am humiliated that he knew he never saw anything with me while I was falling in love!). To avoid the pain you may push it down in favor of an ongoing obsession with him... kind of misplacing your emotions.
The tricky part about all this is that the core wound he opened was inflicted earlier in your life, this is an echo of it. If you think back to your childhood, can you remember a time when you felt the same? Something like this happened? Do you know what it taught you about yourself and others? I had to dig down to the roots to transplant my tree if you know what I mean.
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 18, 2024 15:02:27 GMT
My question is: Even though i acted secure the entire duration of our situationship and also after (i dont contact him, i dont stalk social media and so on) it ended, i dont FEEL secure. Im probably in limerence or something similar because I think about him everyday, 100 x times a day, its an obsession with a person I know is not a good match for me and I still have this ridiculous hope that he is going to miss me when enough time has passed and change his mind. My brain is telling me the sensible course of action and im sticking to it (im a very logical person personalitywise), but my feelings hasnt catched up. So for all you guys that have earned secure, when did it embody your feelings aswell as the brain? I want to be put off by bad behavior, i want to get the ick so bad! Instead im just as attracted to him as ever even if i havent been in any form of contact since it ended. So for now im just feeling that im faking secure, its not really true. For refererance I will say that I have always been AA with a lot of self control, i have never double texted in my life or doing any of the behaviors that AA are known for, except staying too long in relationships with men that doesnt feel emotionally safe. But im also proud and independent and I have never been in a emotionally og physically abusive relationships, never attracted to men with personality disorders and so on. Just the elusive DAs that for some reason is my cryptonite. Cant wait the FEEL secure, instead of just portraying it on the outside. Any feedback or insights are greatly appreciated.
I agree with introvert….processing your emotions…processing through the “ick” is incredibly important….otherwise it will simply rise again the next time you have a similar attraction. I don’t think earning secure is a one and done…it just means the issues are deeper and less on the surface. So the questions that really would be beneficial are….what is it about my thought of this guy that tie to something from my past? Is there a legitimate need that that was left unfulfilled that I need to acknowledge or mourn? Be kind and gentle to whatever is stirred.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 18, 2024 20:34:43 GMT
Earning secure doesn't mean not ever having uncomfortable feelings, but it means both what other posters are saying, that you can sit with them and process them without losing your identity and sense of self, and that when something happens that emotionally impacts you you're dealing with that actual issue and not layers and associations with something else that you're disconnected to or unaware of. So, if you're still getting dysregulated for a long period of time to the extent you're describing, then that's very likely reflecting that you've still got some unprocessed trauma or negative feelings towards yourself somewhere that need healing. You've done the right thing completely in walking away from an incompatible situation. It's okay that's you're still in progress working through this stuff. I share this link often because I think it is conceptually very helpful and valuable: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2372/overcoupling-stress-responseThe attraction to push/pull tended to diminish for me once I overcame my fear of abandonment, which was actually overcoming my tendency to abandon myself due to lack of ability to emotionally self-regulate and believe I'd be okay without someone else to land my nervous system for me. Which is pretty typical of AA. However, it's not one quick fix, it was a couple years of processing and work, and I wasn't necessarily always aware and deliberate about the direction in which I was processing. And the click moment mrob referred to is I woke up one morning and all the processing I guess finished, and my AA thought patterns of decades simply changed and no longer made sense for me. From there, the experience ( introvert touched on) of practicing walking away from incompatible situations repeatedly eventually helped me move on from my attraction to avoidant men, but that took another year after earning secure and wasn't immediate either. You're not faking, so don't talk negatively to yourself about your progress. It all just takes a lot of time, and it seems longer when you're aware and impatiently hoping to feel better. |
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katie
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Post by katie on Feb 18, 2024 20:54:37 GMT
I want to thank all of you for your insightful replies, just read through and there is a lot to unpack here for me I see. At work now so will reply more in depth when im free. Again your responses is greatly appreciated.
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Post by cherrycola on Feb 18, 2024 22:29:40 GMT
I completely feel you on the faking thing. Because I was doing good and then bam I was thrown into a complete AP place out of no where. I think the difference is I recognize all these feelings are internal to myself and I'm just taking it a day at a time trying to work thru it.
It sounds like you are doing a similar thing, and are on the right path.
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katie
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Post by katie on Mar 7, 2024 8:07:10 GMT
"It's interesting you didn't relay to us the feelings you had when he rejected you. Are you afraid to feel, or afraid to be vulnerable about it? He didn't just bruise your pride, he opened up an attachment wound. So that's going to involve many intense feelings, including grief, shame, anger, etc. I think if you want to feel secure you will need to first allow the feelings into it, and go back to the source. If by chance you felt humiliated here you may wish that he would turn it around so that your shame and humiliation could be resolved. That doesn't have to be a conscious thought, it may be your system attaching thoughts (I love him, and I want a happily ever after!) to feelings (I am humiliated that he knew he never saw anything with me while I was falling in love!). To avoid the pain you may push it down in favor of an ongoing obsession with him... kind of misplacing your emotions.The tricky part about all this is that the core wound he opened was inflicted earlier in your life, this is an echo of it. If you think back to your childhood, can you remember a time when you felt the same? Something like this happened? Do you know what it taught you about yourself and others? I had to dig down to the roots to transplant my tree if you know what I mean."Im back after some intense weeks at work, also it was good for me to spend some time reflecting upon your questions. Really good questions btw that made me try to dig deeper as to why I am this way. First question: I did feel really sad and disappointed after his rejection that last evening we spent together. I dont remember if I cried or not, probably not - I rarely cry over men, maybe for 15 minutes one day and then never again. But can cry easily in other aspects, for example if someone passes away, human or pet. Can tear up over a cute old couple on tiktok or a dog that is reunited with its owner and stuff like that. But I did for sure feel intense sadness and grief over the loss of the future I was hoping for with this man. I dont think Im afraid to be vulnerable in admitting my pain to my friends or my mom (who is very supportive). In my friend group im known as the one who seeks comfort in sharing my negative and sometimes embarrassing moments, as most of my friends "prefers" to deal with things on their own. We do talk deep about these things and they are aware that its not healthy to avoid comfort from others due to the fact that it is uncomfortable for them to be vulnerable that way. I do have to say that my friends are very intellectual, soft and deep people and we do spend a lot of time talking about these kind of things, i feel lucky and secure in that aspect of my life. So short answer is that i dont have a problem showing vulnerability to friends and family but I do have problems sharing that side of me with men. There is something in me that feels that this is unattractive, "to much", going to scare them away and so on. I definitely have a scarcity mindset when it comes to men and this makes me only want to portray as easygoing, funny, robust and "only good vibes aloud" kind of toxic mentality. I really dont think this younger guy in question knows how hard I took his rejection and that I even suffered/suffers from heartbreak. As to your question if I felt humiliated, I cant name that feeling within. More that I felt disrespected I think, which makes me feel.. maybe as a token of me not being "good enough". When you think about it is wildy disrespectful to say to a woman that you are good enough for sex but not for anything serious!? The audacity in saying something like that to someone is beyond me. I think that is my main issue with men though, that I dont feel "good enough" physically. Everytime im rejected my mind instantly goes to "he didnt think i was pretty enough" or "he wasnt physically attracted to me enough", mainly because I cant think of any other reason haha. So I dont know if it is a sign of good self esteem or bad, like I feel on top regarding my personality traits, persona, charisma, work/career, money and so on, so looks is the only thing I "blame" rejection on. Which doesnt really makes sense either because I know that im considered conventionally attractive and I have always been "popular" in school and in life in general. But I know there is a wound there, but I cant really think of why. I have a mild overeating disorder (I eat when stressed or bored or sad as a coping mechanism) and weight fluctuate 20-30 pounds up and down every other year. Right now im about 10 pounds overweight according to my height and that can trigger more of the "im not good enough" thoughts. I will have to say that two of my previous partners has had a preference for thin women and also let me know that I was prettier at a lighter weight (again the audacity, wtf!). This could be of course adding to this core wound but it happened like 10-20 years ago, dont really feel anger towards them anymore, they were just young and stupid. My first boyfriend of 9 years even told his friends that my nipples were so big and I got told he said that and that made me feel ashamed of my breasts. And that is ridiculous to think about now because my 20 year old breasts were gorgeous! Hindsight is 20/20. Stupid boy. But again this are minor traumas, other that 2-3 comments like that over the course of 9 years he was a good and secure partner. So i dont feel like this could be the main reason I have this core wound. I have a okay relationship with my father but they divorced when I was a year old so maybe there is some "daddy issues" (I dislike that phrase) underneath. I know he cares about me alot and I know he is so proud of everything I have accomplished but he rarely say it with words. But he helps me out with anything regarding practical help, assisting when im buying cars and properties and so on. Like many fathers out there I imagine. He is an outgoing and charismatic man, always popular with the ladies but has now been happily married with a kind, soft woman for the last 20 years. He has a kind of harsh side to him though, he is not so soft spoken with his words and also a little bit egoccentric. He is the main character in his own life thats for sure, but he and his wife has a good relationship with good communcation, respect and a lot of love. He is the man of the house though and she is a stay at home mom in very traditional roles. I know that he look up to both me and my mom though, who is both considered career women, he mostly appreciate the thougher and more masculine traits in me i feel (not know for sure but I feel like he does, i might be projecting). He and my mom has never been friends but in the later years they are again on speaking terms. This conflict has nothing to do with me though and everything about them being very much alike, a little proud and harshness to their personalities. And yes I have inherited some of that harshness but Im aware and constantly working on softening and being non-judgmental and careful how I talk to people. Okay so this was a lot, but it really helps me to write it out and if anyone cares to read it all i would greatly appreciate thoughts and perspectives <3 |
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katie
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Post by katie on Mar 7, 2024 8:21:27 GMT
So the questions that really would be beneficial are….what is it about my thought of this guy that tie to something from my past? Is there a legitimate need that that was left unfulfilled that I need to acknowledge or mourn? Be kind and gentle to whatever is stirred. I think what was attached to this guy is the kind of life that he had to offer that I would want for myself. Living in the countryside with nature on all sides, a large friend group that does a lot of fun activities and just a zest for life. He is someone that can take on a lot and get things done al the while having fun doing it. Also smart and insightful and have many traits that im looking for in man. So after it was over I had the thought that for the last 2 years i have been living in the "waiting room" of having a partner and the family and the life that i want. That everything is going to change as soon as i just find the man of my dreams. Very naive way of thinking about it, like im a princess in need of a prince to rescue her. So i decided that I have to create the type of life that im dreaming of myself instead of waiting for a man to provide it for me. That means spending more time doing fun things with my friends and really get passionate about my hobbies/interests again. So for the last 5 months this is what I have been trying to do. Create a life im happy with, with or without a man and a family since I dont have control over the latter. Im also turning 41 this year so if im going to be able to have kids of my own i have to do it sooner rather than later. My GYN doctor have checked me out and says everything is looking fine but she says that after 43 it will be extremely difficult. So part of the grief is that I now spent 5 months longing for a person that clearly didnt want me (again, hindsight is 20/20 - it is painfully clear for me now, the signs were literally everywhere) and thus waisting precious time. Making me terrified of walking into the same trap again with a DA/FA or someone simply not interested and waste even more time. |
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katie
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Post by katie on Apr 19, 2024 7:26:11 GMT
Update: After 6 months of absolutely no contact or interactions of any kind with the object of my infatuation/limerence he started to engage with stuff I posted on social media. Just small gestures of acknowledgment from his side, which he never did before, not even when we were actually dating. So definitely a break in his previous pattern, and lo and behold, he reached out with a message after a couple of weeks with this. It came surprisingly as I thought he was to stubborn and proud to ever reach out to me. Especially after I expressed that I did not want any contact with him after that last evening where he told me all the things that were wrong with me for him to even consider dating me seriously.
So for a couple of days there were constantly messaging back and fourth with him initiating. At first it gave me hopes of him using this time apart to finding out that he changed his mind about me, that he missed me and wanting to try again. But in true AP fashion I was to afraid to rock the boat and even ask why he reached out, just wanting to keep it light and fun so that I wont scare him away with to much pressure to early. So after a week of this I actually was in the city he lives in due to a jobrelated thing and I asked to meet up. He instantly said yes and was flirting heavily through text. We agreed to meet up in the evening but then he fell off the face of the earth. After e few hours with silence I said that I was ready to meet and asked where he was at in his schedule and the he told me he needed more time because he went to the gym?!. Already here I should see the big waving red flag but im hopelessly optimistic by nature (or just very AP with no boundaries) so I agreed to meet up late at his house after gym and shower.
When we met for the first time in 6 months I noticed that he seemed so nervous, almost terrified, like a deer in the headlights when he opened the door. So stiff and awkward, couldnt even bring himself to say that it was nice to see me or that I looked nice or whatever. He became almost mute, only answering my superficial questions about his house and so on with single-word answers. Probably he felt very uncomfortable as to whether or not I was to bring up any emotional questions regarding our "relationship". So the only thing we really could do to break the ice was to start kissing and being intimate. After that he froze even more, joking "that I could leave now" and hurtful things like that. He did not touch me once after the initial act was over. And we really had nothing to talk about. So that the chemistry I felt from the start with him and that made me fall for him was completely gone. It is like he can only relax and be fun and full of stories when we hang out in a group setting (and since we used to work together this is the setting most of our interactions has been in) and when we are alone he become almost paralyzed.
So for the time we spent after being intimate, we just had really boring conversation and I had too work so hard to make it fun and not awkward af. I left to go to my hotel (no question from him if I wanted to spend the night or anything) and all I was feeling on my way there was actual disbelief that the encounter went like that. That the man I have been putting on a pedestal and daydreaming of for en ENTIRE YEAR was so boring and cold, that I didnt enjoy our time together at all and that I was exhausted by carrying the conversation and "connection" all my myself. So finally I think I have embodied secure attachment, no longer faking it. My attraction for him is down 90 %, just waiting for the last 10. Not taking responsibility for his coldness and rudeness as it was in any way something I did to deserve it. Or that if I was good enough (pretty enough) he would somehow treat me better. I just saw how limited his capacity is and that is absolutely not how I want to spend my life even if I could manipulate him somehow to move in together. Imagine all those boring sad nights together with a person like this. I actually feel sorry for him.
Im going to admit with a little bit of shame that I still relapsed and reached out the next night and asked if he wanted to come to my hotel room. I think I had a small hope that the first encounter went so bad due to us not having any contact for 6 months and it was too nervous and to much pressure to be fun. But he politely reclined the offer as he wanted to shower and go to bed early (it was 9 pm). So got rejected pretty heavily again but this time I just laughed it off, I didnt get sad or took it personally. I really feel that he has to have some major trauma/issues that has nothing to do with me and that seems like to much work to fix for me to keep chasing it. I actually feel like I can move on now, with a sense av calm on the inside. Almost boring/anticlimactic after a year of obsession, like what am I going to do with my time now haha. But Im definitely glad he reached out and we met and that this was the result. If not I would probably have wasted another 6 months hoping for his return. What do you guys think? Am I finally earning secure after 4 years of intense work on myself??
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katie
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Post by katie on Apr 19, 2024 7:32:23 GMT
Just would like to add that on messages and in the bedroom he is not awkward at all, actually quite the opposite. Sexually we are very compatible with him being on the more dominant/assertive side (no kinks like SM or so, but just the dynamic of him being the one that controls what we do). And he is so forward when messaging too, flirting and giving compliments (I guess that it feels safer for him somehow) and such a scared little boy one on one irl. Strange combination.
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Post by lovebunny on Apr 19, 2024 13:58:56 GMT
Hi Katie.
Can I be brutally honest? Nothing you've done speaks of secure attachment.
You let him back in after 6 months of silence (not secure.)
You waited around for him when he was acting flaky on your plans (not secure)
then went to his room late. He didn't even have to go on a proper date with you, you accepted his booty call (Nope.)
Though he was sullen and rude, you had sex with him (on behalf of women everywhere, I ask, WHY??!!)
He didn't compliment you or tell you it was nice to see you because he didn't have to. He can put in zero effort & you still show up & offer sex.
You hit him up again the next night! You were maybe hoping for better treatment/more connection this time, sunken costs, etc.? But I hate that you validated his ego by doing this. Now he thinks his low-effort behavior is fine.
You have turned yourself into low hanging fruit, my friend. The tiniest amount of attention from him & you come running. Hopefully, you are truly done with that & will block him forever.
Look, I'm not super-secure either. But when I first started learning this stuff, after completely obsessing over someone who didn't give a hoot about me, I decided I needed to have some simple "bottom line" behaviors for myself--Behaviors, meaning it didn't matter if my insides didn't match. Here were my first bottom-line behavior rules:
Do not chase people. I repeat, DO NOT CHASE PEOPLE!
Do not agree to be "friends" or have casual sex when you want more
Do not give a lot to people who are giving a little (or not at all.)
CONTROL YOUR IMPULSES! Just because you feel the overwhelming urge to text/see/f*** the bad-for-you-person doesn't mean you should.
I'm glad you have clarity now that he isn't a viable partner for you. Make a vow to yourself, NEVER AGAIN. I'm glad you're here & hope you keep writing & learning!
Maybe check out BAGGAGE RECLAIM by Natalie Lue, I think what she has to say about men like this will resonate with you.
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