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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 15:01:40 GMT
Both sides of the Avoidant/Anxious coin are marked by selfishiness and narcissistic tendencies.
The actions and though patterns of both styles are concerned with preservation of the self, using opposite coping mechanisms.
Equally toxic, from my perspective. One just appears nicer on the surface. Sometimes.
I know that as A DA, having my every motive questioned and mischaracterized as hurtful felt like mental and emotional abuse.
I’m not an evil black hole, plotting my every move to make someone suffer. Being made SO responsible for someone’s happiness is a tall order when I am trying to figure out how to take care of my own. Especially when I have seen little effort on the part of my partner to take good care of themselves. I had to be superwoman. It’s not fair to expect so much of anyone. Once i realized that I was able to become more gentle with myself and take better care of myself by building better boundaries. Both sides need more awareness, more self love and care, and better boundaries.
DA’s are often unfairly demonized, because our self protective measures don’t involve the same tactics that an anxious preoccupied partner uses.
I can give insight into particular behaviors, from my experience, that look very different in the outside than they feel on the inside. It’s stunning to me how the real needs of a DA can be minimized and completely twisted into a diabolical plot to harm.
I just want to caution against mind-reading and vilification. An examination of the self is always more helpful than casting stones. There are two sides to every story, and since we all have the information that both DA and AP are very dysfunctional, i think it would be helpful to remember that there is a great deal of miscommunication and errant thinking happening on both sides of the problem.
My two cents, as a DA who bleeds too.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 1, 2018 15:14:52 GMT
Tgat....yes, you are not the only one with DA tendencies to write the above...my counter back is...help us to understand you. We rarely get to hear from the other side and most information that is out there in the Internet speaks in ways that make the person with DA chateacteristics seems cold and manipulative. As a person, I would love to hear more about how your attachment works....please let us in behind the curtain so that it is less academic and more personal. That is the only way we can come to understand and not accuse each other.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 15:21:29 GMT
I will share myself. It helps me heal and it is a reflection of the compassion for myself that i have been finally able to cultivate, after a lifetime of horrendous neglect and abuse. I am able to trust myself, I am able to cultivate trust with others, and i don’t mind sharing the process. Again, thank you for your welcoming posts.  |
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 1, 2018 15:27:23 GMT
I think it will be very healing also because I know that both my parents displayed DA tendencies with me that as a child, I misinterpreted that just aggravated my AP tendencies. I am looking to better understand what may have been the true motive so that I can release and replace these old tapes/interpretations.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 15:55:30 GMT
trn9, understanding and having compassion for my parents has been tremendously healing for me.
As i delved into their life stories, their pain, and their inability to get what they needed as children themselves, I saw that they did the best they could and it was possible for me to understand, empathize, and draw on the STRENGTHS and positive attributes that they gave to me to heal myself and by so doing, help heal them. After all, i am the continuation of them. for better or worse. I chose to heal and transform but it takes courage to face it all. it’s very empowering also. Forgiveness is extremely liberating. That includes forgiveness of myself.
Now, when i face a challenge or a deep pain, i hold it out to my parents in my heart and i say, here is our pain, here is our suffering, how can we heal it? And it changes the focus from being a victim, to being a healer. of myself.
The point is not to over empathize and get lost in another’s pain- the point is to understand it and realize that we all are in this together, and we can help each other heal. that is why we are here. But it starts with tending to your own wounds.
A teacher of mine once said when your house is burning, you don’t first go to try to find the person who lit it and demand to know why they did it, and punish them.
You put out the fire. So it starts with understanding your own feelings, motivations, actions, beliefs.... and taking responsibility for them. You assess and take care of your own needs. It’s a tremendous process but it can be done a step at a time.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 1, 2018 16:15:39 GMT
What I find so very fascinating is that your post above triggered me. I realize that, to me, the above post is interpreted as a solutions based approach...that is how my mom is...she wants to "fix" things and move on...she doesn't feel comfortable just sitting in the pain, anybody's pain, even her own. But sitting with someone in pain and just being there with them is just as vital and sometimes even more so, than trying to find a solution. So to your analogy, sometimes we must first realize it is our house that is on fire and we must become familiar with what that heat and pain feels like with someone who is glad to with us as we go through that process of feeling the heat/pain. Once we have done that, we can put out the fire. But I think we spend a lot of time avoiding sitting in the pain either by distancing form it/numbing it or by making it someone else's responsibility/blaming someone else. I think for too many years, I felt that my pain wasn't important...that it needed to "go away". But that was my mom's inability to be with me in my pain, it wasn't that my pain was insignificant as I had felt for so long. So thank you for allowing me to process through that here. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 16:32:13 GMT
being able to sit with my pain, feel it and slow it, has allowed me to understand how to heal it.
and it makes me able to sit with another’s pain with kind of a sacred space, allowing them to be as they are without inserting my own agenda.
Of course i will always move to a solution. But first i have to recognize where the problem is. And it’s almost always in me. lol. but seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 18:15:17 GMT
There is another part of the equation here, and that is a relationship is two-way. The other person's needs matter too. It isn't only about the needs of one side, but an attitude of responsibility on both parties.
DAs have generally suffered setbacks in attachment early in their lives, but their adult partners did not have a hand in any of that.
I am most certainly not an AP, if anything, I am slightly more independent in that I do not need a partner 24/7, but I do need a partner to be a partner, to act like one, and not someone who shows up once a month for a date and goes silent the rest of the time.
It is our responsibility to find for ourselves a partner who can accept our level of commitment, and to understand that the other party can be hurt, and that it is undesirable to embark on a partnership that would ultimately hurt both.
It is about BOTH doing the work, the compromise, if both can agree to make an effort. To do that, the DA needs to communicate, because how would any of this even happen without communication?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 19:02:21 GMT
I agree, curious.
My experience has been that as i learn to face my own emotional wounds that existed before i even met a partner, i become healthier in my relationships and have more to offer a partner.
I have begun to liberate myself from the dance and understand what healthy interaction looks and feels like, to me.
I believe that healthy relating starts with understanding and developing the capacity to take care of your own needs , so that you aren’t dependent upon someone else and can offer stability and acceptance of someone else. That goes for me as a DA, and for anyone else as an AP.
And everyone in between. Also, my “needs “ change as I become healthier. I become more able to compromise and have tolerance for things that used to trigger me, before i felt secure in myself. Things become less black and white.
Of course both people are important. That balance, I believe , comes when two individuals pursue their own health and well being and take personal responsibility for how they are showing up. There isn’t a bad guy in an AP/DA pairing. There isn’t a good guy. It’s a process and a pattern for both.
In the example you gave, If i was a person trying to build a relationship with someone who showed up once a month and didn’t communicate with me, I would have to ask myself why I am not choosing instead to build a relationship with a partner who could communicate and show up consistently. Why am I choosing an inappropriate partner? What unhealthy beliefs about myself would i be reinforcing by pursuing love from someone who can’t give it? As a DA i have had to ask myself these questions also. I sought love and acceptance all my life from a family that couldn’t give it. As an adult, It still comes down to what I choose and why. That’s the puzzle for each of us to figure out. What am I doing, and why? What could I do differently? What would I have to face if I let go? What do I have to face if I continue? These are good questions for anyone. Relating in a healthy way to yourself makes it possible to relate to another in a healthy way
The dysfunctional dance only continues as long as there are two dancers. no one is forced to stay and dance. The two parts compliment each other. When we know better, we do better. It’s a painful thing for everyone to try to find love and fail.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 19:18:01 GMT
I agree, curious. My experience has been that as i learn to face my own emotional wounds that existed before i even met a partner, i become healthier in my relationships and have more to offer a partner. I have begun to liberate myself from the dance and understand what healthy interaction looks and feels like, to me. I believe that healthy relating starts with understanding and developing the capacity to take care of your own needs , so that you aren’t dependent upon someone else and can offer stability and acceptance of someone else. That goes for me as a DA, and for anyone else as an AP. And everyone in between. Also, my “needs “ change as I become healthier. I become more able to compromise and have tolerance for things that used to trigger me, before i felt secure in myself. Things become less black and white. Of course both people are important. That balance, I believe , comes when two individuals pursue their own health and well being and take personal responsibility for how they are showing up. There isn’t a bad guy in an AP/DA pairing. There isn’t a good guy. It’s a process and a pattern for both. In the example you gave, If i was a person trying to build a relationship with someone who showed up once a month and didn’t communicate with me, I would have to ask myself why I am not choosing instead to build a relationship with a partner who could communicate and show up consistently. Why am I choosing an inappropriate partner? What unhealthy beliefs about myself would i be reinforcing by pursuing love from someone who can’t give it? As a DA i have had to ask myself these questions also. I sought love and acceptance all my life from a family that couldn’t give it. As an adult, It still comes down to what I choose and why. That’s the puzzle for each of us to figure out. What am I doing, and why? What could I do differently? What would I have to face if I let go? What do I have to face if I continue? These are good questions for anyone. Relating in a healthy way to yourself makes it possible to relate to another in a healthy way The dysfunctional dance only continues as long as there are two dancers. no one is forced to stay and dance. The two parts compliment each other. When we know better, we do better. It’s a painful thing for everyone to try to find love and fail. Wow, tgat, your progress as a "DA" is so impressive, I can't believe you are one. I do think you are in a mental state of Secure, because you understand what it takes to have a two-way relationship, whether or not it is still a challenge in practice, but you are getting there. The DA I am very fond of has many qualities I adore, including even silly ones (eg being very "square" socially  ), so it is very difficult for me to get over him, as I could sense that he can get to where you're at one day. We keep hoping, and then getting upset because our hopes are in vain, and yes, we should leave, even though I could feel that he has feelings for me too. It is choking him...so the frustrations are there. Either I stay in a unsatisfactory and potentially unstable relationship, accept the risk, or I leave to seek a Secure. I know that I hurt him when I left, but I have told him before that the distance is unacceptable for me. It hurts me to have hurt him, and I am trying to get over this...not easy for all the reasons I gave, I have become fond of him. For sure if he has reached your evolved state, i wouldn't hesitate to stay and slowly grow with him. You're a rare one. Good luck with your next romantic partner in the new year! PS As to the thread title, there is confusion over Avoidant attachment, Narcissism and Selfishness as these can be co-morbid conditions. One cannot assume that Avoidants are Narcissists simply because Narcissists are Avoidant, though many do confuse the two conditions. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 19:36:18 GMT
haha thank you curious. It’s been a long and painful but very sincere process for me. My relationship with an avoidant, which i recently ended, grew me the most. It was wrenching to ultimately have to say goodbye. We could have danced forever. i was able to see him, understand him, love him, but i could not help him, heal him, fix him. He was in a different place in his process. Just beginning. Sometimes when we spoke it was like reading each other’s diaries. However, the pain of being with him (or trying to be) gradually outweighed the pain of letting go. I understand that aspect very well. I am brave now, when it comes to grief. I have experienced a lot. On the thread title, I am very aware of the distinctions, but see the confusion and wanted to add my perspective as a very empathetic DA. I love DA’s, I understand them and my heart is huge for them. I am one. |
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Post by kristyrose on Jan 1, 2018 20:01:23 GMT
Hi tgat,
I am so impressed and amazed at the work you are doing on yourself. I am an AP in therapy for 6 years and have started EMDR this past year as well. I really appreciate your first post on here. You are so right about AP's also having selfish tendencies and our own agendas that can look like the "good guy" so to speak on the outside. FA/DA's do tend to get the role of villain, while AP's are always victims. I know thats not fair nor is it true.
My ex FA and I have been dating for 7 months since our break up in April of 2017. In total we have been together for 2.5 years and have struggled greatly with the push/pull dynamic. I just saw him this past friday-saturday eve, but he didn't want to see me on NYE.
I had to do my best to not show him that I was upset. I had to remind myself he gets distant on holidays and that he wanted to be alone. I wrote a story that victimizes myself and I woke thinking I need to stop doing that. It's hard, I'm a work in progress, but he refuses to do any self examination so I'm trying to regulate things for us both, for now.
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), so it is very difficult for me to get over him, as I could sense that he can get to where you're at one day. 