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Post by gaynxious on Nov 25, 2016 9:29:11 GMT
I realize that this is the section to discus dissmive avoidant attachment but I have a somewhat academic concern. It seems most posts here are being made by anxious people, granted often enquiring about why avoidants do what they do and how to avoid them or get over them. A few avoidants join in with their insight and experience. I for one find this invaluable.
It's odd to me that given most of the traffic that seems to be driven by anxious contributors and to be of most interest to anxious readers that the anxious section of the website is so infrequently used. While I think it is legit that anxious individuals may want to learn about avoidants to understand what has happened to them and how to navigate our future, it seems like this may be out of a desire to blame avoidants or to absolve ourselves of responsibility.
I can't help but wonder if the anxious condition predisposes us to blame the avoidant and continue to focus our energies on understanding and possibly 'fixing' what we already know should no longer concern us. Is there some predisposition then to be unable to focus on our own problems, our protest behavior, the reasons we are anxious, and even attempts to become more secure?
Our tendency to ruminate is not generally healthy and our preoccupation with our former partners may actually inhibit moving on. I have found learning about attachment theory to be a productive distraction and I believe I have made some break throughs. But perhaps some of the more support group style posts would be better in the anxious section and perhaps some of us anxious contributors should be focusing on how we as individuals can improve our futures rather than dwell on the past.
Just a thought, no offense meant to any individuals or anyone collectively.
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katy
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Post by katy on Nov 25, 2016 12:58:42 GMT
I think you have a good point that people who are negatively affected by being in relationships with avoidants have to explore the behavior of both people in the relationship. I think that as people describe what happened to them, it's obvious that an avoidant's level of avoidance, manipulation, and narcissism can vary between individuals. And, the level of insecurity and anxiety in the partners of the avoidants can also vary.
My goal was to understand what happened to me and to be sure that it never happened again. I'm generally a relatively confident person in the world and for me to end up broken and confused with my confidence badly damaged was very unusual. I've remained stalwart in the face of many serious life problems so I felt extremely compelled to understand what had gone on.
I think that a large part of my problem was naivety and ignorance. I was savvy enough to stay well away from overtly dismissive, bullying people. I was also pretty good in spotting con men who were out to take advantage of me. What I didn't know existed was a person who could sustain months of friendship and support and then suddenly do a 180 switch to rejecting and blaming behavior and be unwilling to discuss how to fix the problem.
I've also admitted that, because I wasn't aware of the flow of avoidant relationships, instead of seeing the push / pull phase for what it was, I believed that he was genuinely busy with work. Again, his track record was of friendship and support, so it seemed logical that I believe some very sincere-sounding statements about his work commitments.
But, within two months of him beginning to withdraw, I'd figured out that something odd was going on, had found Jeb's Web site with information about attachment theory, and had suggested to him that he might have avoidant traits. He cheerfully admitted that he was an avoidant. At that point, I didn't know much about avoidants but I had read enough on Jeb's Web site to know that I was never going to successfully deal with him. I attempted to walk away from him, he attempted to lure me back, and then I got very annoyed when he told me that I should be grateful, like everybody else was grateful, for any of his attention. He doesn't tolerate people being annoyed, blamed me for everything, and then refused to discuss what happened or how to fix it.
I think that the information that I had to integrate into my soul was that a person, who had seemed, for many months, as friendly and kind as I am, was actually emotionally wired totally differently than I am. I could read the theoretical facts about avoidants, but to actually apply those facts to a person whom I thought I knew as being a positive, supportive person was very difficult. Sadly, now that I know that this type of interaction is possible, I will never be as naïve and trusting as I was previously. I'm sure that I'll always keep in the back of my mind that initially charming avoidants do exist and I'll be much more careful to evaluate what I'm seeing and hearing as I get to know new people.
So, I agree, it's important for everybody who has had difficulties dealing with an avoidant to recognize and understand his or her part in the interaction and to work on learning and healing so that they don't end up in the same emotionally difficult situation again in the future.
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Post by gaynxious on Nov 25, 2016 17:13:37 GMT
Katy,
I agree that avoidant behavior is something most of us never realized was something to look out for. However, with my knowledge of attachment theory I have been able to come up with at least three couples in my life that are happy where one of the individuals is an avoidant. Theses avoidants may not be as extreme as some of the ones being posted about here, and extreme avoidants probably do have difficulty making relationships work. but avoidants can be good partners in healthy relationships with secure partners. I'm sure highly anxious people have similar difficulties to highly avoidant people in that even secures may find them challenging.
I do think more avoidants need to be more self aware of their behavior and may need to come to terms with the possibility that relationships may not be for them. But the dynamic of the anxious avoidant trap is mutually contributed to by both parties.
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katy
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Post by katy on Nov 25, 2016 18:33:21 GMT
From the posts on this forum, it seems as though relationships with avoidants fall into two categories. The long-term relationship where the avoidant gets progressively more distant and their partner becomes more demoralized. From various posts, people remain with their long-term avoidant partners because of children, finances, complexities of breaking up a life, religious beliefs, or the partner starting out or becoming progressive more anxious and losing confidence because of the constant "death by a thousand paper cuts" ongoing, rejecting behavior.
I'm sure that my first husband was a very dismissive avoidant. He was always very hostile and difficult to deal with and he never unpacked when we moved into our new house! Very quickly I overcame enormous obstacles to get a divorce and to withstand his very hostile post-divorce behavior. I'm not sure how people are happily married to unaware avoidants who cannot communicate their needs, but maybe the non-avoidant is a person who is more focused on financial matters, children, interacting with other family and friends, and, at the same time, the rejections from the avoidant aren't too demoralizing. Or, maybe the avoidant is able to communicate in some way when they are feeling overwhelmed and their partner knows what to do to calm the waters.
The other type of avoidant relationship that many people have written about is the avoidant who is charming at first, seems to solicit a relationship, never really communicates what's going on with them, and then bolts, often with blame and hostility, as they flee. Probably a few avoidants are able to communicate what's going on so that new acquaintances can knowledgeably decide how to interact with them. If they were aware of the dynamics at play, people looking for romantic partners could knowledgeably assess the relationship potential with a new person and potential friends could determine what level of friendship could probably exist with this new person.
Since it doesn't seem likely that many avoidants are going to be able to fully communicate their psychological needs, it seems as though people who may interact with them need to, at least somewhat, understand the avoidant's thought patterns so that they can do their best to have a successful relationship with any avoidants with whom they choose to interact.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 20:12:18 GMT
Unfortunately, happy couples of any type are not represented on this forum for obvious reasons. Therefore, people will draw conclusions that are not necessarily representative of the whole.
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Post by gaynxious on Nov 25, 2016 23:33:06 GMT
My dad is an avoidant and he and my mother had a very good marriage. I know my mother had some concerns about his temper and wished he was more emotionally available for me but she never seemed to have complaints about their relationship. I think with a secure partner the avoidant doesn't need to withdraw as much and the secure might find the behavior weird or even hurtful but they don't internalize it. This may allow the avoidant to return more quickly and more genuinely. My dad needs a lot of alone time but he says my mother was a very quiet woman so being in the same room with her reading didn't trigger him and cause him to need as much alone time.
My avoidant and I were happy, but we also fought a lot. We kinda just accepted that we fought, I blew up, he would consol me and we would move on. For years it worked, but with intimacy issues life changes seem to have a way of triggering escalations in the fighting. Also I think I was happier than most because his self esteem was so low he was desperate for me not to leave him. Then he got friends that only saw his side and told him he deserved to be treated better, and they were correct, and he got in shape enough to get all the sex he wanted. This the cycle no longer worked for both of us. I wish we could have seen how things might have worked with the knowledge I have acquired but at this point I feel it's too late so I am letting go of the possibility of us escaping the trap.
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