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Post by AvoidedGuy on Nov 30, 2016 22:44:07 GMT
I don't like labels but Avoidant describes my wife and what I've read so far is spot on. Or is it me not wanting to be patient enough? People say "give her time." It's been 17 years and nothing is changing. You can't "change" people though.
SITUATION: 17 years married, I'm 41 and she's 40. I was SECURE when I met her, always have been until the last few years. She liked that about me; confidence, sense of humor, friends, etc. She was so easy to get along with, laughed often, and I felt happy with her. If i have a love language it's touch (with a side of "acts of service"). She was great at the touch part while we dated for 2 years (of course). When it slowed after marriage I learned "that's what happens to ALL women". Now she only responds if she feels like I'm pulling away. And I am. I hate feeling like I'm always pulling away, giving her space she "needs". I just want to love somebody who wants to be loved and has the capacity to give. How did I go from so secure and enjoying some alone time....to feeling so alone all the time? I think I've become an anxious person. The last manager I worked with said I lacked self-confidence and he was right. I've never heard that. I can't believe how my wife is able to ignore me and my daughter (who has Autism and Cerebral Palsy). She makes no effort to make friends, likes to be alone. Now she says I look the best ever since we've been married. I make an effort to look good for her, work hard, be friendly, do service. Any result is so fleeting it's not worth it and I feel empty and unmotivated. Her mood will mirror mine and I'm dragging waaaaay down.
Any thoughts, feedback, tips on what I can try are appreciated. Thank you!
HER PARENTS: do not compliment, worked hard, strait arrows, high morals, and very high expectations. Cold as ice when it comes to feelings. NEVER admit they're wrong (only thing I've ever heard her dad admit is that he's judgemental. Surprise.)
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Post by gaynxious on Nov 30, 2016 23:23:01 GMT
Have you tried couples counseling? If they know attachment theory and you can get yourself to go back to being secure it may allow her to feel safer not pulling away or pull away for shorter periods.
Beyond that the only thing I can suggest is rather manipulative. Need her less, love her less, use your hurt and resentment to make yourself more aloof and independent. I unknowingly did this with my ex for three years and he actually chased me. Would come into my room, yes my room we had separate rooms, and wanted affection. And I wasted it, I would push him away or take advantage and not care about his wants and needs. Maybe you can avoid the second mistake.
It's a tough situation, I'm moderately anxious but many people on here are secure and have had relationships with highly avoidant people and not coped well with it. A highly avoidant person that isn't aware of their condition or habits can be very difficult for a lot of people.
Since you have kids I would keep trying but remember people don't usually change. She needs to communicate her needs and be a part of the marriage, no one person can make a marriage work.
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katy
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Post by katy on Dec 1, 2016 2:34:33 GMT
When I saw that your daughter is autistic, I thought about a friend of mine. He and his wife have two daughters. The older daughter is autistic. Normally he keeps a very brave front, but one time he revealed that he and his wife are having terrible problems because she has become totally consumed and overwhelmed with their autistic daughter. He told me that his wife has changed so much over the years because of their autistic daughter. He said that his wife is now a very different, withdrawn person.
We talked about how he thinks that his wife is very overwhelmed and withdrawn because of the endless treadmill that she's on as she cares for their daughter. His frustration is that his wife has gotten locked into sort of a closed-minded, rejecting state where she isn't even able to look at alternatives or have other people help to care for their daughter. He also said that his wife had insisted on taking their daughter out of a school program because she felt that the school staff was careless, so now she's with their daughter 24 / 7.
He said that his wife seems to have just withdrawn from their marriage and life and isn't interested in fixing anything with him.
Could something like this be going on?
If it could be something like this, I believe that there are many online support groups for parents of autistic children. You may also have local support groups or counseling programs that could help.
If it could be a reaction to your daughter's illness, it may be that your wife is slightly avoidant and her natural tendency to withdraw is being much more exaggerated by depression, worry, and feeling hopeless.
Best wishes,
Katy
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 19:47:37 GMT
I would suggest couples counseling as well. Sometimes avoidance is created by a situation and having a special needs child is stressful. Your situation may or may not have anything to do with avoidance. Many couples divorce after having children and the statistic is even higher if the children are special needs. She could be depressed, find the situation overwhelming or have other issues. Counseling may help you both figure some things out.
I would think if she was avoidant all along, you would have seen some indications of it in the first 2 years of dating.
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Post by AvoidedGuy on Dec 1, 2016 22:23:46 GMT
Is it me or does the "game" of playing hard to get still work on avoidants even when married? It works in mine but it seems crazy that it does.
I've been to 2 different therapists with the wife. Neither helped but by not fault of their own. When one person doesn't open up and the therapist doesn't know much about Avoidant/Dismissives, you don't go far. Being patient for so many years as I've done has proven to fail. I need to be proactively doing something.....but I'm tired of trying and that scares me. I don't want to care so much and I really pretend not to. I play the avoidance game for a few days but it's not fun and it's not me. I can't ignore people just and pretend I'm important when I know it's BS. Nobody is. I wish I was genuinely a hard ass who didn't care. But I'm not.
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Post by AvoidedGuy on Dec 1, 2016 22:43:32 GMT
I appreciate the feedback above about my daughter. Yes it has been very stressful for us, but more for me. It's hard to come home from work and see my 13 year old girl sitting alone in her room, day after day. She gets avoided. I appreciate all she DOES DO for her. It also amazes me how long she can ignore her. I almost had my girl potty trained when she was 10 (she walked at age 6). Then she hit puberty and I asked my wife to take over. Since then it's been complete regression back to diaper dependence. So I worry my girl is getting "just enough" attention to survive. I don't want to complain. Today I expressed some concern about her progress and my wife got on the phone to schedule PT sessions for my girl. That was great and made me happy. I need to be more assertive and expressive as I'm a serial pleaser. It's a weakness I'm very conscious of and working on. My wife is the exact opposite. She's like her Dad and I'm like my Dad. One is way to friendly and one is stone cold.
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Post by gaynxious on Dec 1, 2016 23:31:25 GMT
The game is exhausting I admit. I was able to do it for three years because I accepted the relationship was doomed. I had resigned myself to enjoy what I could until I couldn't take it anymore. I figured we would prolly get married but ultimately divorce and was oddly fine with that. Then he changed and tried harder, made friends, made an effort with my friends, wanted to get married, and suddenly I loved him more than he loved me again and I couldn't shut it down anymore. And that's when the dynamic shifted and he had all the power and things progressively got worse.
You can't play the game forever, especially if you genuinely care about the avoidant. My heart goes out to you.
Find a counselor that actually knows about attachment theory if you can. Most will agree to a 10-20 minute phone call for you to ask questions. It seems to not be a very popular area as my ex and I saw 3 different couples counsellors over the years and I had 3 private counsellors at various times. And not a one of them ever mentioned it and we were pretty text book examples of anxious and avoidant with the only real deviation being that I had most of the power in he relationship for 9 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 0:59:14 GMT
gaynxious, I think most, if not all, psychologists know about attachment theory, but it's a debatable topic and a theory, rather than a diagnosis or recognized disorder. I, personally think there are many other things that make people seem "avoidant" and the term is possibly more of a catch all. ie. someone who is depressed will act avoidant, but it's the depression and nothing to do with attachment.
I made a lot of headway with my therapy, but it was with a therapist who treats children with RAD. My impression is that RAD is only treated in children and not adults. I personally think that the US does not want to give credence to attachment theory, because of the business of adoption and yes, it is a business.
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Post by Gay anxious on Dec 2, 2016 8:40:23 GMT
Psycology is a science and in science the word 'theory' means more than it does colloquially. The 'theory of evolution' for instance is treated as scientific fact. Attachment theory has been demonstrated time and time again to be consistent across time and cultures to be true in that there are in fact two demonsions to newsfeed intimacy and they divide people into four groups one of which is highly underpopulated. Yes there are many other possibilities that may make a person seem avoidant but upon asking it seems she has always been avoidant it just didn't become a problem till now. I'm sure there are many counsellors that do not use attachment theory as their guiding light that could help the individuals involved. But unfortunately we have so little to chose counselors on that if he truly believes his wife is avoidant he Might be served well to seek a counsellor that actually knows what that means and what behaviors make sense in that context.
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Post by AvoidedGuy on Dec 7, 2016 20:05:12 GMT
Yes she's always been avoidant. It never got to me until she began taking ADD mens. She doesn't have ADD so it's for "energy". It turns her into an avoidant machine. That's when it scares me the most. And she's not fun to be around and it's bad for kids.
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katy
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Post by katy on Dec 7, 2016 20:40:27 GMT
She's taking ADD meds and she doesn't have ADD? I think that most ADD meds are stimulants (aka speed), most of them are controlled substances, and they have a very high potential for addiction. What dose is she taking? In reality, if she doesn't have ADD, any dose is too high and will end up being detrimental. Real ADD meds managed by a doctor are carefully calibrated so the patient is beneficially stimulated, not damaged by too high a dose.
That sounds like a really terrible situation. No wonder she's acting so strangely - she's on some unknown dose of very strong, very mind-changing medications.
Can you get her to a doctor who can help her get control of the situation?
Good luck to you.
Katy
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Post by AvoidedGuy on Dec 7, 2016 21:15:09 GMT
Yes they are real meds and managed by a Dr. Nothing illegal. I don't know what level of ADD she has or doesn't and shouldn't speculate....But my point is the effect on her. They allow her to further block out what needs to be seen or felt. When energized the attention goes everywhere except for where it needs to be. I'll get through to her every few weeks and she'll become aware for a few wonderful days. I want to be able to go about my day and work but it really gets me down. I seem to lose steam when I can't connect. This makes me wonder what part is ME? Depression? I should be more independent than this, I think. But then again we should have at least a healthy "need" for eachother, right? I don't know what to do. Everything I read is about how the wife needs to communicate more, be validated, be held. Not her. It leaves me wondering what the heck am I to do?
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Post by gaynxious on Dec 7, 2016 22:23:45 GMT
If there is anything I have learned from my experience it's that the word 'should' needs to be thrown out the door when insecure attachment is involved and maybe even when it isn't.
Maybe she thinks you 'should' be more independent but your needs are your needs, they are legitimate. You can't demand she fufill them if she doesn't want to but if she can't meet them she has no ground to expect you not to leave.
The same is true for her, maybe she 'should' need you more and want to connect. But it seems her need is space. She is very stressed and the meds prolly help her get done what needs to get done. Those needs are legitimate and if she can't get them filled by you then you have no ground to expect her to stay.
This is the main difficulty, most couples have a greater range of needs where the two can find some mutually agreeable space but the anxious and avoidant are so different that they have a harder time finding that space. Sometimes it seems like they just take turns being unhappy or just trade off who is less unhappy. It can be very demoralizing. Even if you are secure, if your partner makes you anxious it's the same problem.
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Post by Jaeger on Dec 8, 2016 11:18:39 GMT
Depression? Perhaps.. Though if you're more 'needy' than you are used to being, it means something is affecting this change. My money would be on you sliding further down the anxious spectrum because of her distancing strategies. The intermittent 'rewards' you get and how you are wired to react to them can really make you doubt your sanity at times. Katy has a very insightful post up on this effect. By the wsy, I can totally relate to your problems.. I was the same with my now-ex.
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katy
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Post by katy on Dec 8, 2016 14:17:30 GMT
If your wife really does have ADD, that probably explains lots of her behavior. If she was actually diagnosed by a knowledgeable specialist, ADD could be a huge issue in the behaviors that you're seeing. ADD in adult women is a big problem which can affect every aspect of a woman's life, including family relationships.
Often, girls aren't diagnosed with ADD when they are younger because they don't have overt behavior issues like boys do. Where a female's ADD starts to display is when her level of responsibility expands. So, a young woman who is dating and early in a marriage may appear relatively normal and happy. As her responsibilities and the complexity of her life increase with a house, children, family problems, a husband who is having problems, the woman goes into overwhelm mode. Adults with ADD are known to have real problems with relationships because they cannot maintain consistent behaviors and often appear to demean or ignore their partners because they forget to be responsive. Also, women with ADD often feel very inadequate as they function in the world - everything is ten times harder for them than for other people and they still end up appearing like failures.
Problems that adults with ADD are documented in many places on the Web. Sari Solden wrote a book many years ago on women with ADD and all of the problems that they have. If you wife is staying home with a disabled child, that is a recipe for disaster for a woman with ADD because there is no structure and too many complex responsibilities.
As far as the medication, she may be on the wrong medication, the wrong dose, or the wrong dose schedule. If you see real issues, it's probably worth your communicating with her doctor to share your observations of what her medication is doing to her.
So, if she really does have ADD, that could be an explanation for her withdrawal from you and your family. ADD in a family member is a family problem and needs to be understood and managed by everybody in the family. Perhaps, if you could open a dialog with her about ADD and you could come to the place where you begin to understand her sense of being overwhelmed, you could see her behaviors as symptoms of a brain problem, not as purposeful rejection of you.
Best wishes,
Katy |
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