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Post by boomerang on Jun 23, 2018 23:16:30 GMT
I have read a lot of threads on here, but still not quite sure I understand the FA attachment style, especially as it plays out in relationships. And I am pretty unclear on how the FA and DA attachment styles intersect/differ. Can the FAs out there help me understand how you feel and how you react and why? How the dynamics work and don't work for you? What you need and what triggers you? There is heaps out there on DA and AP (which is what I am, and I am trying to work on myself in this respect), but not so much on FA, and I would like to understand better. For folks who are not FA, but have been in an FA relationship, how did it play out for you? I would appreciate whatever you share.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 23:31:29 GMT
i want to weigh in as a low anxiety DA, that i cannot relate to most of what i read from the FA perspective, although i have often seen FA posters attempting to decipher DA mindsets and actions and using assumptions that i can't remotely relate to.
i am continuously surprised by the FA perspective, and the absence of anxiety plays into this hugely, i am sure.
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Post by mrob on Jun 24, 2018 1:05:15 GMT
I find that people feel dismissed, so instantly grab onto the label DA for their partners. I also think Jeb describes the attachment types quote succinctly. If you haven’t read the book, I suggest you do. It’s worth the read. A brief synopsis of FA attachment. jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/fearful-avoidant/ |
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Post by annieb on Jun 24, 2018 20:21:38 GMT
I guess the main difference is that FA has a low self esteem and DA has a high self esteem.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 20:35:06 GMT
I guess the main difference is that FA has a low self esteem and DA has a high self esteem. it is one difference. another MAJOR difference is the absence of anxious attachment. the two types have some similarities but the actual differences are huge. |
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Post by ocarina on Jun 24, 2018 21:49:47 GMT
I guess the main difference is that FA has a low self esteem and DA has a high self esteem. I am not sure I agree with this - nor with the idea that people can be categorised into being one or the other attachment type. I am also not sure that this is a helpful way of looking at either ourselves or others. Attachment styles define behaviours - behaviours are not us - they are ways we have learnt to become, ways we have learnt to function in the world - as soon as we define ourselves in this way - or define others, the attachment style becomes us. In reality we are all fluid - we are all capable of changing and evolving depending on our partners, our current situation, and a million other external influences. There is a lot of discussion on here that goes something like: "My ex DA" "I'm an AP" - and I am just not sure if this is a helpful way of viewing the reality - that we have all been moulded to a greater of lesser extent by our childhood experiences. There's something very human about wanting to make sense of the world by categorising and "understanding" but the reality is that it's rarely helpful and ends up being a distraction which prevents us from taking personal responsibility for the healing of our own wounds in a way that might help us to relate to ourselves and others in more healthy ways. Generalising, making assumptions and mind reading - I have been guilty of all these in the past but going forward it's been much more helpful to me to examine my own feelings and behaviours without making judgements - I've given up the analysis on anyone else - having used it in the past of a way of avoiding having to look more closely into my own heart. Apologies if this has gone off on a bit of a tangent! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 22:06:30 GMT
I guess the main difference is that FA has a low self esteem and DA has a high self esteem. I am not sure I agree with this - nor with the idea that people can be categorised into being one or the other attachment type. I am also not sure that this is a helpful way of looking at either ourselves or others. Attachment styles define behaviours - behaviours are not us - they are ways we have learnt to become, ways we have learnt to function in the world - as soon as we define ourselves in this way - or define others, the attachment style becomes us. In reality we are all fluid - we are all capable of changing and evolving depending on our partners, our current situation, and a million other external influences. There is a lot of discussion on here that goes something like: "My ex DA" "I'm an AP" - and I am just not sure if this is a helpful way of viewing the reality - that we have all been moulded to a greater of lesser extent by our childhood experiences. There's something very human about wanting to make sense of the world by categorising and "understanding" but the reality is that it's rarely helpful and ends up being a distraction which prevents us from taking personal responsibility for the healing of our own wounds in a way that might help us to relate to ourselves and others in more healthy ways. Generalising, making assumptions and mind reading - I have been guilty of all these in the past but going forward it's been much more helpful to me to examine my own feelings and behaviours without making judgements - I've given up the analysis on anyone else - having used it in the past of a way of avoiding having to look more closely into my own heart. Apologies if this has gone off on a bit of a tangent! agreed, and i see all the mind reading and analysis as a way to avoid taking a closer look at oneself also. i like your tangent! |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 24, 2018 23:40:01 GMT
I guess the main difference is that FA has a low self esteem and DA has a high self esteem. I am not sure I agree with this - nor with the idea that people can be categorised into being one or the other attachment type. I am also not sure that this is a helpful way of looking at either ourselves or others. Attachment styles define behaviours - behaviours are not us - they are ways we have learnt to become, ways we have learnt to function in the world - as soon as we define ourselves in this way - or define others, the attachment style becomes us. In reality we are all fluid - we are all capable of changing and evolving depending on our partners, our current situation, and a million other external influences. There is a lot of discussion on here that goes something like: "My ex DA" "I'm an AP" - and I am just not sure if this is a helpful way of viewing the reality - that we have all been moulded to a greater of lesser extent by our childhood experiences. There's something very human about wanting to make sense of the world by categorising and "understanding" but the reality is that it's rarely helpful and ends up being a distraction which prevents us from taking personal responsibility for the healing of our own wounds in a way that might help us to relate to ourselves and others in more healthy ways. Generalising, making assumptions and mind reading - I have been guilty of all these in the past but going forward it's been much more helpful to me to examine my own feelings and behaviours without making judgements - I've given up the analysis on anyone else - having used it in the past of a way of avoiding having to look more closely into my own heart. Apologies if this has gone off on a bit of a tangent! I would agree..however here is where I think we tend to get a bit mixed up. I would have completely called myself FA in how I approach certain situations/people, because the way I experience them seems to be that of a longing to approach but then wanting to distance model (I call it my feral cat mode)....which is fine..but I have run up against others who distance and it is too easy for me to then assume the reason why they distance is the same as mine. I think that is the danger...assuming others respond in a way that makes sense to us. I think that is in part why there are so many questions...not to try to label someone..but to see how they are "different" from our own internalized perception of approach and distance. I agree however that it is most important to understand one self...but I think there is room (as long as we do not presume) to ask about each other. I agree that generalizations are oftentimes not helpful...but neither is using only the faulty biases in my own mind...there has to be some middle ground. |
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Post by ocarina on Jun 25, 2018 5:34:15 GMT
One of my he reasons I feel it doesn’t help to dig deep into the understanding of attachment styles i- unless you happen to be a clinical psychologist, is that it’s a distraction. From the real issue s, the places where healing is possible.
So, in a relationship with someone ambivalent it is normal to feel good nsecure - feeling it and recognizing that clinging to a he relationship by trying to understand the dynamic is painful and is concurrently a way of avoiding more pain by not having to really experience the experience of feeling unloveable (or whatever the emotions may be).
Hence looking instead at why we cling, why we avoid pain in a warped kind of way by obsessing and then tackling the experiences head on is the only way to actually shift the dynamic. Understanding the whys and wherefores of others behaviors and rationalizing puts us in danger. Of staying in relationships that don’t serve us and end up deepening our reactive grooves rather than giving us the chance to heal them
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 25, 2018 11:54:58 GMT
One of my he reasons I feel it doesn’t help to dig deep into the understanding of attachment styles i- unless you happen to be a clinical psychologist, is that it’s a distraction. From the real issue s, the places where healing is possible. So, in a relationship with someone ambivalent it is normal to feel good nsecure - feeling it and recognizing that clinging to a he relationship by trying to understand the dynamic is painful and is concurrently a way of avoiding more pain by not having to really experience the experience of feeling unloveable (or whatever the emotions may be). Hence looking instead at why we cling, why we avoid pain in a warped kind of way by obsessing and then tackling the experiences head on is the only way to actually shift the dynamic. Understanding the whys and wherefores of others behaviors and rationalizing puts us in danger. Of staying in relationships that don’t serve us and end up deepening our reactive grooves rather than giving us the chance to heal them I can understand from these boards why you would come to that conclusion. I can also understand why you have that opinion regarding individuals who are focused on the other person to the detriment of learning about himself or herself or justifying staying in a relationship that is unhealthy. However, as I have explored my own style...I have realized that I don't really know the experience of others...and I see this as a bit of a reality check...working on my own issues by becoming more aware that how I interpret strategies in others is biased. Honestly....i think some people are (just by their nature) more inclined to want to understand others....how does it serve me to live my life getting to the root of my strategies and patterns when they were formed at such a young age and not then, with a newfound adult perspective, be curious about the experience that others have. Surely there is a benefit (as part of that process) to become aware of such biases and to seek others to help to make corrections. As Juniper noted..there are great assumptions made on all ends as to the reasons and meanings of different strategies. I am, just for myself, trying to breakthrough that a little. I am glad that you are doing so well Ocarina.🙂 |
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Post by anne12 on Jun 25, 2018 12:16:16 GMT
I think there is a lot of confusion about FA-style. I like to call it disorganised (trauma), as Diane Poole Heller, Dan Siegel, Peter Levine and other likes to call it.
I have posted more in the general forum. To me it is helpfull to know about the attatchmentstyles in general and how to tell if a person is activated or if I myself somehow gets activated. Also to know about trauma and how it shows up in people and myself. (Fight, flight, freeze) I am also thankfull because I know how to calm down my own nerveus system and if I can stay calm, it can be helpfull in my interaction with myself and other people around me -also when their nerveussystem gets activated. Also in the workplace, with friends aso. I gives me a better undeerstanding of other peoples struggels.
I am not FA myself, so I do not know how it feels in general. I have only experiencend in a situation as an adult where I was under a lot of stress because of things that happend around me, and I had to be hyper alert. Also when the doctors in a hospital told me and my parent, that they had cancer and they would die. (The first time my parents diden´t die, because the doctors were wrong - they couldent find the cancer) That is one way you can send people into a state of chock. I have/had experienced one or two situations from childhood, that can/could trigger a flight responce in me followed by a collaps, because of too much activasion in my nerveussystem.
I would wish, that people around the world learned about, how the nerveussystem works - then I think, the world could become a better place. I am still surpriced, that people who works with other people, do not get educated in how the nerveus system works and how to calm down themselves and help other people how to calm down.
Diane Poole Heller about disorganised attatchment/situational disorganized style:
When there is a kind of high isolation between too much parasympathetic or too much sympathetic, you are missing the regulation of the middle. There is a lot of distress in the system. So, when somebody moves into disorganized, often what you will see – over any length of time – is a kind of flipping back and forth between the extremes, or elements of Ambivalent and Avoidant. That means sometimes they are shut down and frozen and not available for contact – they are more in their threat response, so there’s a shutting down of the attachment system and other times there is a lot of hyper-‐anxiety about what’s going on in the relationship.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 13:07:49 GMT
One of my he reasons I feel it doesn’t help to dig deep into the understanding of attachment styles i- unless you happen to be a clinical psychologist, is that it’s a distraction. From the real issue s, the places where healing is possible. So, in a relationship with someone ambivalent it is normal to feel good nsecure - feeling it and recognizing that clinging to a he relationship by trying to understand the dynamic is painful and is concurrently a way of avoiding more pain by not having to really experience the experience of feeling unloveable (or whatever the emotions may be). Hence looking instead at why we cling, why we avoid pain in a warped kind of way by obsessing and then tackling the experiences head on is the only way to actually shift the dynamic. Understanding the whys and wherefores of others behaviors and rationalizing puts us in danger. Of staying in relationships that don’t serve us and end up deepening our reactive grooves rather than giving us the chance to heal them I can understand from these boards why you would come to that conclusion. I can also understand why you have that opinion regarding individuals who are focused on the other person to the detriment of learning about himself or herself or justifying staying in a relationship that is unhealthy. However, as I have explored my own style...I have realized that I don't really know the experience of others...and I see this as a bit of a reality check...working on my own issues by becoming more aware that how I interpret strategies in others is biased. Honestly....i think some people are (just by their nature) more inclined to want to understand others....how does it serve me to live my life getting to the root of my strategies and patterns when they were formed at such a young age and not then, with a newfound adult perspective, be curious about the experience that others have. Surely there is a benefit (as part of that process) to become aware of such biases and to seek others to help to make corrections. As Juniper noted..there are great assumptions made on all ends as to the reasons and meanings of different strategies. I am, just for myself, trying to breakthrough that a little. I am glad that you are doing so well Ocarina.🙂 i notice very clearly that the people who focus on other people's behaviors stay stuck endlessly. they post and post and post, and never seem to make much progress but circle back to the same place they have always been, obsessing about their ex. then maybe they go away, come back, and even tho they claim to be working on their issues, the tone of their posts seems so stuck, like they haven't moved on from their breakup at all, no matter how much time passed, they are still obsessing about their ex. it's not for me to judge, just an observation, that people who focus much on the behavior and thoughts of others don't really make much progress on their own in a way that's obvious from the outside. but, everyone here is here for their own reasons and will get out of it what they put in. the results are up to them, and only they have to live with their outcomes. that's how i see it. actually, watching it all keeps me aware of my own process and where i don't want to be. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 25, 2018 13:54:42 GMT
That is an interesting observation...perhaps I should post more about the internal work I am doing...but really did not feel that was relevant to this post. I think that everyone is allowed to have their own perspectives...I guess I have a different perspective. I see a lot of individuals who are coming into more of an awareness of themselves, which I think is a great asset to have in a world where most people are not aware and working on patterns they have no understanding about. Whether there is a change that is obvious to others on the forums really isn't the goal as I see it. 🙂
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 19:32:16 GMT
That is an interesting observation...perhaps I should post more about the internal work I am doing...but really did not feel that was relevant to this post. I think that everyone is allowed to have their own perspectives...I guess I have a different perspective. I see a lot of individuals who are coming into more of an awareness of themselves, which I think is a great asset to have in a world where most people are not aware and working on patterns they have no understanding about. Whether there is a change that is obvious to others on the forums really isn't the goal as I see it. 🙂 just an observation. useful for those who really want to get past their breakup, perhaps. to each their own! everyone has their own goal, voice, perspective. that's mine. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 25, 2018 20:20:56 GMT
Fair enough Juniper....I now know your perspective and you know mine. It certainly helps to know each other's perspective rather than assume them. 😀
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