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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 12:17:14 GMT
tnr9 brokenbiscuitI don't want to turn this thread in the direction of my illumination about other types but thank you so much for the deep explanations of your thought and emotional processes, it helps me to understand the vastly different perspectives. It's very difficult for me to "get my head around" it because my internal process is very different- but there is the similarity of being uncomfortable with true intimacy (not so much now but life long before recovery). So again, thank you, and it does help me to see how valuable our diversity is in healing these issues. I have said before that i frequently feel surprised by the contrasts- and i really value the authenticity of each speaker here, the ability of everyone to say it how it is with them. that's how we can help each other. Again- sorry for the aside, but thank you so much for the insights. brokenbiscuit, that post points out some very fundamental and enormous differences between FA and DA and i truly appreciate it, simply because i feel DA and FA are lumped in together too much. that leaves me feeling very misunderstood, with different groups who experience the Anxious preoccupation mindset projecting elements of that experience somewhat onto Dismissives, and making assumptions or having misunderstandings that inhibit true understanding. This isn't an accusation or angry statement- it's an observation of a real sticking point when it comes to understanding dismissive partners. In fact, i think it may feed a hope for reconciliation based on internal similarities that simply don't exist. I can see how some information about dismissives, when taken from an AP or FA perspective, could be misconstrued by the anxious lens. And, it probably goes the other way- things can be misconstrued by the DA lens but i think most DA don't read the literature much, me included- because i feel very misunderstood! Ok- back to the OP, and if i can figure out how to do it i may copy this post to a new thread. thanks again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 16:04:21 GMT
take out all the anxiety or anything you can relate to lol, and that's me. it's apples and oranges, in a LOT of ways, between FA and DA. the anxious piece changes the game completely. FA is not a mix of DA and AP from my vantage point. it's a whole new animal. There are so many differences it really is another thread but it makes my brain shut down lol! i don't introduce partners either, that's a whole other topic. it's because i don't like my family and my fiends are mine, i'm compartmentalized...but at a party or something i'd love you to know people but really enjoy the confidence it would take for you to introduce yourself and own your place next to me.  i love independence and value it in myself and others. A DA wouldn't be moving in with you, he's got to be FA. haha. we like parallel lives, not entertwined. not a hard and fast rule but- most DA i know don't care to cohabit. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 27, 2018 16:57:14 GMT
I can only speak for myself...but I have always known my internal processes and feelings...even as a youngish child (around 10) I felt things deeply. The unworthiness feeling I believe, in part, is what causes the difference between AP and DA (and to some extent FA)...and as such, our motives are different, our outlook is different...that unworthiness feeling is what drives us to constantly look for validation from our partner (and others) while also looking for "signs" that our partner will leave. I think that is why my attachment system is always on...because I am always "hungry" to feel worthy and am convinced somewhere at a soul level that I am not. I have entered into relationships very hopeful that I will succeed this time in pushing away those feelings of inadequacy only to find myself slipping back into old patterns of fear based rumination. In early journal entries about B, I actually wrote that I expected he would become bored and leave and the whole relationship was then looking for validation that he was actually happy with me while also looking for signs that he was not. This is why I keep going back to ownership...to pulling back to self...because somehow the story has become...I am unworthy and I need "you" to make me feel worthy. So worthiness is externalized onto others. And as much as that pattern is a self fulfilling prophecy (he left me thus I am unworthy or at least feel that way) the other option of having to be responsible to my own enoughness feels like crap and thus the "hope" that says, "next time it can be different, this new guy will love me" but also says, "if only had done such and such that prior guy would have stayed". And it is odd...there are almost 2 camps....those who can move on to the next relationship rather quickly and those who stay focused on a past partner (which is where I fall..it is what brought me here). Also..as Annie pointed out, I am feeling/heart driven....not so much logic/head driven...which is why I have entered into relationships that on paper were full of red flags...Narcs, addicts, men who were underemployed...because I could see their "potential" and that is what I would run with..because then I was "useful", I could "help", I could "caretake" and they would just be so grateful and would love me back...or that was the story I told myself...codependency tendencies run deep in me. I will say that it feels very much like I am trying to swim upstream against a current of what was once perceived as useful patterns of behavior....I find myself slipping back far too often into thinking about "him" versus being present to myself...although I am getting better at catching myself. And owning my feelings as separate from another person is helping to remove some of the urgency that drives my rumination. I hope this helps. Tnr9 I was shaking my head to everything you wrote in this post. You say the things I feel but have difficulty putting it into words or even having some spare head space to think so clearly. I still feel worse with every day that he's not in my life. I can't imagine ever wanting another, but why the hell that is. Shouldn't I want to be attaching myself to someone else. The unavailableness of this guy has made me crave him like no other, how insane and fked up is that for thinking. My god I terrify myself Would you mind telling me how long you have been apart from your B. Since he and I attend the same singles community...I still "see" him weekly....but he broke up with me April of 2017. I told him once that if he were a jerk, he would be a heck of a lot easier to get over. He told me he still has "feelings" for me but thankfully, he has never given me any mixed messages...his intentions have been friendship centered. That means that I have to wrestle with my own hope..which is honestly a good thing. The last time we spoke I told him that he is not responsible for me or my feelings...that if I am struggling to accept that we are just friends...that is on me. I will be honest, I wrestled with that one because of my AP lens and wanting him to validate me and be responsible for me...but that isn't healthy....and the blessing in any relationship is when 2 autonomous people "choose" each other...so that was my first step in that direction....freeing him from any feelings of being responsible for me. |
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Jul 27, 2018 17:11:59 GMT
Re: Junipers last message
Yep, pretty much that. FAs have high anxiety PLUS high fear of abandonment. So we want the love, the closeness, the intimate need to bond with another human, but we are also afraid of it as well as it is a threat to our inner core. Why is it a threat? Because we were abandoned/abused in childhood by the people we needed to depend on the most for our safety and wellbeing, a parent or both parents. Now as adults we still want that intimacy, that connection to another person that makes us as human as you, but the fear of our childhood drama reoccurring scares us back into the safety of our shell.
DAs from what I can gather appear to be able to detach from their partners when the relationship end comes a lot easier. They can separate the emotional side quite easily. We can't. FAs, a bit like APs, are clingy yo yos. If we REALLY like you, then you can say the right thing and we will be back, or be patient and we will come back in our own time, confused and sad and looking to reconnect, like a lost child searching for its mother in the supermarket. I think we are actually quite easy to manipulate if you know how. I have read that FAs, like a AP, is susceptible to abusive relationships from toxic cluster B types. Fortunately for me that hasn't occurred in my adult life, but I can see how it could quite easily.
From what I've read, DAs are a bit tougher to win back. But if an FA isn't "attached" to you then we won't be back, we will move on easily. But if we are attached to you or you are our FP (aka Favorite Person) you can never get rid of us really 😁 we are so
bloody annoying. Chaos and confusion reigns supreme in our head and we start the fun dance all over again, push pull push pull I love you I hate I love you I hate youuuuu block unblock block unblock arghhh. But we don't hate you. Not really. You pull our strings. If you didn't pull our strings we wouldn't ever come back and do the dance. I never dance with exs unless they are an FP. FPs are our later life parent replacement figure, so we make you, our lover, into a here and now version of our damaged, abusive, neglectful mum or dad. Ever wondered why some girls like calling their lovers "daddy" in bed, or why some men get addicted to cold distant women who won't give them sex or affection? There you go. Freud was right all along imo. My FP is exactly like my mum (no I never called her mum in bed lol). If you match one or both of our abusive/neglectful parents in any way, be it physically, emotionally or how you act, then we love you like we loved and needed that parent when we were children and we will never want to leave you, just like a child will cling to its mother no matter how badly she treats him/her. You are the parent we want but the same parent we fear , the one that has caused our trauma. Pretty f--ked up eh.
Once the dance reaches its climax and both partners are exhausted, we often convince ourselves to make the inevitable abandonment easier by dumping you first. If you dump us, then childhood trauma is played out all over again, and the wound is reopened, and nine year old me starts crying out again from deep within my soul, memories of abandonment come back to the surface, and the pain actually feels like you are going to die.
So yeah, FAs are a mix of anxiety and avoidant, but it's not a fifty/fifty split. The scales tip more towards one or the other. I'm more anxious I think,but not 100% sure. My therapist is helping me with all that as knowing will give me a little bit more direction towards how I should be treated. We are a bit more complicated than the other attachment types I think just due to being so contradictory and self defeating in nature . Plus we suffer from a myriad of other symptoms... Disassociation (very freaky) aka freezing. Freezing is shutting down into a catacombic state when things get too intense or emotional. It's what rabbits do when they see a predator. We do the same when we see a threat, but that threat is emotional not physical, especially if we witness anger from a partner and it looks like they are going to abandon us. In this situation, we may well try and beat you to the punch , and bail out of the relationship first (flight) so as not to suffer the traumatic wound of abandonment . Or we will freeze, sit there vegetative while our partner shouts and screams at us. We go dead inside. This is my personal preferred way of dealing with a highly emotive partner. I always do it after sex too, especially if it was highly emotional lovely bonding sex. Once the act is done I will shut down mentally, my eyes close, and into my catacombic chamber I go, away from the intimacy and love that we adore but perceive as a threat to our wellbeing. No flight needed in this situation, but freeze allows me to disassociate from the highly emotional situation around me, even though its lovely and positive! Weirdos
Plus we have phantom ex obsession (this haunts me greatly) , addiction issues (a great way to escape), obsessive daydreaming (better than real life) , even fear of touch or sex from a partner (luckily not for me 😎) unless it's a partner who is not our FP. Apparently FAs and DAs are common prostitute users but that's just from what I've read. Our sexual needs and desire for closeness are met with no emotional response required. I can be partial to casual one night stands so that's no different really. But yeah, lots of stuff. Although we are a mix of the two main types (avoidant and anxious) , when blended together it makes us act in an almost completely different way.
We are highly traumatised individuals
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 27, 2018 17:53:18 GMT
Thank you brokenbiscuit.....for exactly what you wrote above is the reason I won't play manipulative games with B. I had a friend who actually tried to coach me into being more....b****y...play it up like I did not care...all those things....but nope...not interested. I care too much about him and want a clean conscious.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 17:56:19 GMT
very different, in many ways. thank you for such an eloquent explanation brokenbiscuit! If we use the thirsty analogy- it seems that FA's are parched and also think the water is poisoned- so they gulp and spit and sputter and need to keep trying because they are parched- but the water is poison. maybe. maybe not, yes it is- spit. cough!!! SO THIRSTY! 😫 Then we have DA. We'd like to wet our whistle, we need water like everyone else. But we have our own supply, we aren't parched. We like to sip, while we take care of this other business in front of us on the table. Sip, nice, swallow, and put the glass over there because we've got stuff in the way, don't want to spill. now, the sex thing- My partner and i (he also dismissive) both enjoyed sex tremendously and developed a good emotional connection with that. Both of us strongly preferred affectionate (but rowdy) sex, we connected a lot and cuddled afterward. And, both strictly monogamous. This is similar to other DA's i know. However- until more emotional security is reached, emotional intimacy and sexual intimacy seemed to need to be emaphasized one over the other, alternately, for us. Not both full volume at the same time. And, after particularly intense sex or emotional bonding, there was reflexive distancing. It seems like more of a tide, a regular ebb and flow, than a storm at sea as i see described in the FA dynamic. I am saying all this with compassion. It's been painful to be a DA, overall, we shut down for traumatic reasons also. And the discovery phases of all this are brutal. So, i'm very sorry that you suffer also. It's tremendous that you're here and so courageous. Thank you for sharing all that. Other things i can relate to, but for DA it does seem that we are able to detach and don't prioritize the relationship when we get insecure about it.... we DEPRIORITIZE it and soothe other ways, or just go do something else. But as i've grown healthier the understanding of and desire for true intimacy has grown. And, we tend to be still waters that run deep. VERY, Very deep. |
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Jul 27, 2018 18:19:27 GMT
Thank you brokenbiscuit.....for exactly what you wrote above is the reason I won't play manipulative games with B. I had a friend who actually tried to coach me into being more....b****y...play it up like I did not care...all those things....but nope...not interested. I care too much about him and want a clean conscious. If you don't choose to play the game then he (if he really is a FA) will likely be back at some point in the future to try and try again. If he is more DA, then like Juniper said, he is probably off doing his own thing and not even thinking of you. If FA he is likely obsessing over you and wondering if you are thinking of him, if he should text, when he should text, what should he say etc. All things I have done with my FP ex gf, and she has done them with me tbh. That's the anxious side we both have. Wherever you choose to play that game or not of course is entirely up to you. That's where the boundaries come in. |
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Post by notalone on Jul 27, 2018 19:01:15 GMT
Yesterday was a very bad day for me. I had 2 consultations with attachment therapists, one said she suspected I have complex PTSD and possibly disassociation and I'm looking at a very long trajectory for treatment. I felt more hopeless than ever. I can't afford her services; I can hardly afford to support myself. I'm barely holding on and all I can do to keep myself sane right now is keep myself busy. I sobbed for hours and hours yesterday and my thoughts went to the darkest place I know.
I haven't heard from the guy since Sunday. I know contact with him is triggering my anxiety and depression and the best thing is to cut contact and truly let go. But I can't bring myself to cut contact so instead I started answering his texts with very brief replies so he'd find someone else to give him the attention he wants. It seems to be working. I know he is DA and non-committal but I also know he has committed before when he's really liked someone, so I think I need to accept that he just isn't that into me, it's not going to change, and let go. I hate admitting this but I can't help but feel like if I was better in some way he'd want to be with me. I suppose this is the AP talking, but damn it feels so true.
Last night thoughts my ex narc said to me ran through my mind:
"You're nothing".
"I'll find love, you never will."
"You have no idea what a mess you are".
"You'll get dick, hard, fast, but no one will ever really love you".
"You're a selfish, controlling cunt". I know he's wrong, but some part of me believes him.
I'm not saying being avoidant is desirable, but boy does it feel like it would be a good deal right now. I feel like I'm drowning in lava in hell, like I'm losing my battle with depression, and like I don't want to fight this fight anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 19:26:47 GMT
dissociation is freaky , i hate it, rarely encounter it any more.
it was a feature of PTSD for me and carried over-
i rarely experience it but it's very profound to go through that.
Intimacy is a threat to me also, less as i get healthier but it's still there. I don't know if my guard will ever be completely gone. With intimacy, if i feel it's sustainable, i will just go through some deactivation involuntarily and then come back in to keep building intimacy.
This is not to be confused with Ap/Da dynamic for me.
That isn't about intimacy, it's about need and control and now that i know what intimacy is, i can say that what i withdrew from in the AP/DA dance was not intimacy at all- it was opressive need and control from my perspective.
I have never been left, i have always done the leaving. I never missed or really thought about any ex partner until my last. the only reason i left him is because circumstances in his life limit his ful availability to me. So i ended the romantic /sexual aspect. I intended to just lose contact but that didn't work long for either of us. We missed each other too much even tho we know we can't be together, it doesn't work for both of us.
He and i developed a strong bond, and even as the friendship continues, i find that when i feel how attached to him i am even as just a friend i value, i realize that i might be too dependent on his presence in my life to be most content... so i feel myself deactivate still. I just kind of "turn it down" and i'm more comfortable. . I just notice it and adjust it. i let myself go to something different , another facet of my life, for my peace and happiness at that point. i always have some insulation around me when i need something, anything too much. I don't mind being this way. I accept it. I'm not like this with platonic friends. Just with him because of our romantic /intimate relationship.
He and I talk just about every day but don't hang out, it keeps the distance we need to have our separate well being, given the circumstances that came between us. But we don't want to lose the connection. It could be like this indefinitely. We are enough of a presence to be a comfort to each other and very important to each other- but other people looking in might scratch their heads and say... what's the point?
I have no real need to move on to another partner or increase what my previous partner and i have, and that's probably because i'm a dismissive even tho i have developed emotional availability. When the breakup (initiated by me) was fresh i hurt a lot and had intense feelings. I thought i would ease that with a casual encounter with another trusted friend, and then realized, nah, that's not what i need, it was nice but i don't care to continue it. In the future i may want a relationship again, but i feel my bases are pretty much covered and i feel happy and content.
I've been honest with my previous partner about all that, and also about the causal encounter. and he understands it. He hasn't had any involvement with anyone else. His feelings were hurt when i shared the truth during a recent conversation about how we can navigate our limitations while remaining available to each other on some level. I did not want to be keeping any secrets while also trying to be emotionally authentic and available to our changed relationship.
He told me his feelings were hurt, but he gets it and it didn't create a rift between us- in fact sharing the honesty of all the feelings and realizations around that it seemed to make us miss each other more. So we just accept all that and prioritize the reality of the obstacles and priorities keeping us out of a relationship. we have decided to just be ok a day at a time with how it is. no panic or bad feelings really, but it's not at all an absence of emotion or caring. It's just a perspective of it all.
I'm not sure if FA would be able to do that with an ex or if it's not intense enough, or if it would create too much pain or anxiety or abandonment. or jealousy. I don't find that we DA tend to be very jealous or insecure. My previous partner and i know we were great together and we both know, no one else could really cut it lol. Maybe we will forever be each other's Phantom Ex. ha. But- I wouldn't betray someone else for him; i would just not be involved if i couldn't prioritze and cherish a new partner without looking back.
(BTW- I make the choice to decrease dependence on random things in my life that might become too important, so that i would really suffer if they were gone. I keep things minimal in some ways. Make do with less, be content. that's a lifestyle i see in a few DA's i know. )
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 19:29:50 GMT
Yesterday was a very bad day for me. I had 2 consultations with attachment therapists, one said she suspected I have complex PTSD and possibly disassociation and I'm looking at a very long trajectory for treatment. I felt more hopeless than ever. I can't afford her services; I can hardly afford to support myself. I'm barely holding on and all I can do to keep myself sane right now is keep myself busy. I sobbed for hours and hours yesterday and my thoughts went to the darkest place I know.
I haven't heard from the guy since Sunday. I know contact with him is triggering my anxiety and depression and the best thing is to cut contact and truly let go. But I can't bring myself to cut contact so instead I started answering his texts with very brief replies so he'd find someone else to give him the attention he wants. It seems to be working. I know he is DA and non-committal but I also know he has committed before when he's really liked someone, so I think I need to accept that he just isn't that into me, it's not going to change, and let go. I hate admitting this but I can't help but feel like if I was better in some way he'd want to be with me. I suppose this is the AP talking, but damn it feels so true.
Last night thoughts my ex narc said to me ran through my mind:
"You're nothing".
"I'll find love, you never will."
"You have no idea what a mess you are".
"You'll get dick, hard, fast, but no one will ever really love you".
"You're a selfish, controlling cunt". I know he's wrong, but some part of me believes him.
I'm not saying being avoidant is desirable, but boy does it feel like it would be a good deal right now. I feel like I'm drowning in lava in hell, like I'm losing my battle with depression, and like I don't want to fight this fight anymore.
I'm so sorry you are suffering this way. Keep those abusive thoughts out of your head, that's narcissistic abuse and it's just ridiculous. Have you looked into Melanie Tonia Evans? She has a great site for recovering from narcissistic abuse. I posted in the AP section about it. It's free, you can join courses online i think also. maybe it's a good alternative if you can't afford therapy. www.melanietoniaevans.com/ |
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Post by notalone on Jul 27, 2018 19:35:15 GMT
I'm not as confident as you in my survival. I can't detach, and the pain is often more than I feel like I can handle.
As a fellow AP...here is where our growth curve lies...to take back ownership of our feelings. That does not mean bearing the pain of it alone...but own that it is your pain, because "he" isn't doing anything and yet you feel pain....just as I feel pain. Our pain is real...it is associating that pain to another person that is the trap....it keeps us yearning for someone else to address the pain because the pain feels very much caused by someone outside of us. But it is not....the pain is inside you....and you are stronger then you think. Sit with it 5 minutes....and then see if you can sit with it 5 minutes more. It is ok to reach out to a friend and have that friend comfort you...it is expecting that someone else can make us ok that is the lie....I live with it too. You can do this. I appreciate what you are saying, and I know you're right. I know it's not him causing me pain, it's that his avoidant attachment style is triggering the pain that's already inside me. I've done so much therapy, distress tolerance exercises, meditation, yoga, diet, exercise, reading, everything I can think of, but the pain is getting worse, not better, and I'm so exhausted and scared. I do reach out to friends. A few of my friends have stepped back because they've become overwhelmed, and I get it. I don't blame them, I'm tired of me too. And frankly, I don't want to bother them anymore. I don't want to be this black cloud of a person. I know they'd say they love me and want to support me, but I don't want to feel like a burden anymore. I am meeting with a friend tonight, though, who's going to help me research attachment therapists. I thought about going back to the hospital last night, but I know they'll just hock me up on drugs, and I'll be in the same spot, numb, and less able to process or heal. I'm sorry if I sound negative. This is just where I'm at, and I'm being very honest and open. |
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Post by notalone on Jul 27, 2018 19:54:48 GMT
I can only speak for myself...but I have always known my internal processes and feelings...even as a youngish child (around 10) I felt things deeply. The unworthiness feeling I believe, in part, is what causes the difference between AP and DA (and to some extent FA)...and as such, our motives are different, our outlook is different...that unworthiness feeling is what drives us to constantly look for validation from our partner (and others) while also looking for "signs" that our partner will leave. I think that is why my attachment system is always on...because I am always "hungry" to feel worthy and am convinced somewhere at a soul level that I am not. I have entered into relationships very hopeful that I will succeed this time in pushing away those feelings of inadequacy only to find myself slipping back into old patterns of fear based rumination. In early journal entries about B, I actually wrote that I expected he would become bored and leave and the whole relationship was then looking for validation that he was actually happy with me while also looking for signs that he was not. This is why I keep going back to ownership...to pulling back to self...because somehow the story has become...I am unworthy and I need "you" to make me feel worthy. So worthiness is externalized onto others. And as much as that pattern is a self fulfilling prophecy (he left me thus I am unworthy or at least feel that way) the other option of having to be responsible to my own enoughness feels like crap and thus the "hope" that says, "next time it can be different, this new guy will love me" but also says, "if only had done such and such that prior guy would have stayed". And it is odd...there are almost 2 camps....those who can move on to the next relationship rather quickly and those who stay focused on a past partner (which is where I fall..it is what brought me here). Also..as Annie pointed out, I am feeling/heart driven....not so much logic/head driven...which is why I have entered into relationships that on paper were full of red flags...Narcs, addicts, men who were underemployed...because I could see their "potential" and that is what I would run with..because then I was "useful", I could "help", I could "caretake" and they would just be so grateful and would love me back...or that was the story I told myself...codependency tendencies run deep in me. I will say that it feels very much like I am trying to swim upstream against a current of what was once perceived as useful patterns of behavior....I find myself slipping back far too often into thinking about "him" versus being present to myself...although I am getting better at catching myself. And owning my feelings as separate from another person is helping to remove some of the urgency that drives my rumination. I hope this helps. Tnr9 I was shaking my head to everything you wrote in this post. You say the things I feel but have difficulty putting it into words or even having some spare head space to think so clearly. I still feel worse with every day that he's not in my life. I can't imagine ever wanting another, but why the hell that is. Shouldn't I want to be attaching myself to someone else. The unavailableness of this guy has made me crave him like no other, how insane and fked up is that for thinking. My god I terrify myself Would you mind telling me how long you have been apart from your B. "The unavailableness of this guy has made me crave him like no other" - Me too, 100% |
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Post by notalone on Jul 27, 2018 20:07:20 GMT
Re: Junipers last message Yep, pretty much that. FAs have high anxiety PLUS high fear of abandonment. So we want the love, the closeness, the intimate need to bond with another human, but we are also afraid of it as well as it is a threat to our inner core. Why is it a threat? Because we were abandoned/abused in childhood by the people we needed to depend on the most for our safety and wellbeing, a parent or both parents. Now as adults we still want that intimacy, that connection to another person that makes us as human as you, but the fear of our childhood drama reoccurring scares us back into the safety of our shell. DAs from what I can gather appear to be able to detach from their partners when the relationship end comes a lot easier. They can separate the emotional side quite easily. We can't. FAs, a bit like APs, are clingy yo yos. If we REALLY like you, then you can say the right thing and we will be back, or be patient and we will come back in our own time, confused and sad and looking to reconnect, like a lost child searching for its mother in the supermarket. I think we are actually quite easy to manipulate if you know how. I have read that FAs, like a AP, is susceptible to abusive relationships from toxic cluster B types. Fortunately for me that hasn't occurred in my adult life, but I can see how it could quite easily. From what I've read, DAs are a bit tougher to win back. But if an FA isn't "attached" to you then we won't be back, we will move on easily. But if we are attached to you or you are our FP (aka Favorite Person) you can never get rid of us really 😁 we are so bloody annoying. Chaos and confusion reigns supreme in our head and we start the fun dance all over again, push pull push pull I love you I hate I love you I hate youuuuu block unblock block unblock arghhh. But we don't hate you. Not really. You pull our strings. If you didn't pull our strings we wouldn't ever come back and do the dance. I never dance with exs unless they are an FP. FPs are our later life parent replacement figure, so we make you, our lover, into a here and now version of our damaged, abusive, neglectful mum or dad. Ever wondered why some girls like calling their lovers "daddy" in bed, or why some men get addicted to cold distant women who won't give them sex or affection? There you go. Freud was right all along imo. My FP is exactly like my mum (no I never called her mum in bed lol). If you match one or both of our abusive/neglectful parents in any way, be it physically, emotionally or how you act, then we love you like we loved and needed that parent when we were children and we will never want to leave you, just like a child will cling to its mother no matter how badly she treats him/her. You are the parent we want but the same parent we fear , the one that has caused our trauma. Pretty f--ked up eh. Once the dance reaches its climax and both partners are exhausted, we often convince ourselves to make the inevitable abandonment easier by dumping you first. If you dump us, then childhood trauma is played out all over again, and the wound is reopened, and nine year old me starts crying out again from deep within my soul, memories of abandonment come back to the surface, and the pain actually feels like you are going to die. So yeah, FAs are a mix of anxiety and avoidant, but it's not a fifty/fifty split. The scales tip more towards one or the other. I'm more anxious I think,but not 100% sure. My therapist is helping me with all that as knowing will give me a little bit more direction towards how I should be treated. We are a bit more complicated than the other attachment types I think just due to being so contradictory and self defeating in nature . Plus we suffer from a myriad of other symptoms... Disassociation (very freaky) aka freezing. Freezing is shutting down into a catacombic state when things get too intense or emotional. It's what rabbits do when they see a predator. We do the same when we see a threat, but that threat is emotional not physical, especially if we witness anger from a partner and it looks like they are going to abandon us. In this situation, we may well try and beat you to the punch , and bail out of the relationship first (flight) so as not to suffer the traumatic wound of abandonment . Or we will freeze, sit there vegetative while our partner shouts and screams at us. We go dead inside. This is my personal preferred way of dealing with a highly emotive partner. I always do it after sex too, especially if it was highly emotional lovely bonding sex. Once the act is done I will shut down mentally, my eyes close, and into my catacombic chamber I go, away from the intimacy and love that we adore but perceive as a threat to our wellbeing. No flight needed in this situation, but freeze allows me to disassociate from the highly emotional situation around me, even though its lovely and positive! Weirdos Plus we have phantom ex obsession (this haunts me greatly) , addiction issues (a great way to escape), obsessive daydreaming (better than real life) , even fear of touch or sex from a partner (luckily not for me 😎) unless it's a partner who is not our FP. Apparently FAs and DAs are common prostitute users but that's just from what I've read. Our sexual needs and desire for closeness are met with no emotional response required. I can be partial to casual one night stands so that's no different really. But yeah, lots of stuff. Although we are a mix of the two main types (avoidant and anxious) , when blended together it makes us act in an almost completely different way. We are highly traumatised individuals Wow! Just wow. This was so informative. Thank-you for sharing this. I'm now wondering if I might be FA rather than AP, but leaning towards the anxious side. Huh? So much to think about. |
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Jul 27, 2018 21:49:52 GMT
Yesterday was a very bad day for me. I had 2 consultations with attachment therapists, one said she suspected I have complex PTSD and possibly disassociation Same as me! And same as millions others around the world x you are not alone in this |
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Jul 27, 2018 22:44:48 GMT
dissociation is freaky , i hate it, rarely encounter it any more. it was a feature of PTSD for me and carried over- i rarely experience it but it's very profound to go through that. Intimacy is a threat to me also, less as i get healthier but it's still there. I don't know if my guard will ever be completely gone. With intimacy, if i feel it's sustainable, i will just go through some deactivation involuntarily and then come back in to keep building intimacy. This is not to be confused with Ap/Da dynamic for me. That isn't about intimacy, it's about need and control and now that i know what intimacy is, i can say that what i withdrew from in the AP/DA dance was not intimacy at all- it was opressive need and control from my perspective. I have never been left, i have always done the leaving. I never missed or really thought about any ex partner until my last. the only reason i left him is because circumstances in his life limit his ful availability to me. So i ended the romantic /sexual aspect. I intended to just lose contact but that didn't work long for either of us. We missed each other too much even tho we know we can't be together, it doesn't work for both of us. He and i developed a strong bond, and even as the friendship continues, i find that when i feel how attached to him i am even as just a friend i value, i realize that i might be too dependent on his presence in my life to be most content... so i feel myself deactivate still. I just kind of "turn it down" and i'm more comfortable. . I just notice it and adjust it. i let myself go to something different , another facet of my life, for my peace and happiness at that point. i always have some insulation around me when i need something, anything too much. I don't mind being this way. I accept it. I'm not like this with platonic friends. Just with him because of our romantic /intimate relationship. He and I talk just about every day but don't hang out, it keeps the distance we need to have our separate well being, given the circumstances that came between us. But we don't want to lose the connection. It could be like this indefinitely. We are enough of a presence to be a comfort to each other and very important to each other- but other people looking in might scratch their heads and say... what's the point? I have no real need to move on to another partner or increase what my previous partner and i have, and that's probably because i'm a dismissive even tho i have developed emotional availability. When the breakup (initiated by me) was fresh i hurt a lot and had intense feelings. I thought i would ease that with a casual encounter with another trusted friend, and then realized, nah, that's not what i need, it was nice but i don't care to continue it. In the future i may want a relationship again, but i feel my bases are pretty much covered and i feel happy and content. I've been honest with my previous partner about all that, and also about the causal encounter. and he understands it. He hasn't had any involvement with anyone else. His feelings were hurt when i shared the truth during a recent conversation about how we can navigate our limitations while remaining available to each other on some level. I did not want to be keeping any secrets while also trying to be emotionally authentic and available to our changed relationship. He told me his feelings were hurt, but he gets it and it didn't create a rift between us- in fact sharing the honesty of all the feelings and realizations around that it seemed to make us miss each other more. So we just accept all that and prioritize the reality of the obstacles and priorities keeping us out of a relationship. we have decided to just be ok a day at a time with how it is. no panic or bad feelings really, but it's not at all an absence of emotion or caring. It's just a perspective of it all. I'm not sure if FA would be able to do that with an ex or if it's not intense enough, or if it would create too much pain or anxiety or abandonment. or jealousy. I don't find that we DA tend to be very jealous or insecure. My previous partner and i know we were great together and we both know, no one else could really cut it lol. Maybe we will forever be each other's Phantom Ex. ha. But- I wouldn't betray someone else for him; i would just not be involved if i couldn't prioritze and cherish a new partner without looking back. (BTW- I make the choice to decrease dependence on random things in my life that might become too important, so that i would really suffer if they were gone. I keep things minimal in some ways. Make do with less, be content. that's a lifestyle i see in a few DA's i know. ) Quite an eye opening post this one, to see the DA/DA dynamic in play. A rarity for sure. You both obviously have a great deal of love for each other, but both keep each other at distance. You care for each other, but can't be with each other it seems, yet this dynamic is healthy and happy for you both because the alternative would be "doing the AP dance" with someone else which you have decided (quote rightly) is not about love, but scratching each others childhood wounds. It's controlling each other to get those issues soothed momentarily, before it starts all over again, never ending and maddening. But like you say, that's not love. It's rubbing cheap ointment on trauma. What you and your DA partner have is love and respect for each other. A mutually beneficial relationship full of respect and compassion. The only tradgey is you can't be together in person. So sad! I wish you could, and have that physical presence too as well as the emotional one. How frustrating. But things change...they always do |
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i love independence and value it in myself and others. 
