|
|
Post by squirrelkitty on Aug 4, 2018 22:10:35 GMT
I need some input on my attachment style.
I thought I was AP because of some of my reactions in relationships/ friendships with DA are very AP.
But recently I've taken part in lots of psychological research (online surveys), including some on attachment style and this has made me question my diagnosis.
This is a bit complicated because my feelings/ behaviour vary depending on the attachment style of the other person. I also tend to be interested in people who are FA or DA. The only significant exception seems to be my husband, who is AP.
I'll start with the reason why I think I'm FA:
I've noticed that very often the first thing that happens once I become aware I really like somebody is that I *ignore* them and try to hide my feelings, thinking "If he knows I like him, he will enslave me!"
This has become less pronounced over the years. I would sometimes do it deliberately out of distrust, consciously trying to protect myself. Of course, it's ridiculous because I'm not half as stealthy as I think I am and by the time I try this little trick, the other person already knows. But nowadays it still happens as a reflex and it's really annoying. E. g. I have this friend who is also some kind of avoidant. A few weeks ago we had a little bonding moment and the next day we smiled and waved at each other idiotically. Two days later I was back to ignoring him. Sometimes I even wish "I hope I won't see him today because it will be embarrassing."... which doesn't make sense because most of the time I wish I could talk to him more often (we're both a bit socially passive and also not good at small talk but at the same time too well-behaved to just start a geeky conversation out of the blue).
The reason I thought I was AP was because when I think about troublesome relationships, the main one that comes to mind is that with my DA ex.
When I first got to know him, I really fancied him, but I was also a little annoyed when he flirted with me because I didn't really want to spend time with a boyfriend because I had my own things to do. I also found the idea of romantic relationships extremely silly in theory (while pining for him in practice). When we were together, he triggered some massive AP behaviours in me... But I also resented him massively because I didn't like being dependent on him for (sexual) amusement. I thought that my anger at him was AP anger at being abandoned and it probably mainly is that. But there was also a strong element of wanting to get away from him so I don't have to deal with this terrible feeling that my happiness depends on him. One time when he threatened to break up, I was actually relieved (but I'm not sure whether I was a relieved AP who has finally had enough or a relieved FA who had been hoping to escape all along).
Now, here's the point: the only time I actually showed high levels of AP responses was around him.
With most other people that I like it's been more like this:
1st- I fear that they will exploit me or not like me and I ignore them.
2nd - if they are FA or DA, I take the initiative and get quite determined to befriend them (actually not true, they do but they forget or do it casually because they aren't triggered yet) - they are a bit meh or get triggered and freak -
3rd:I go AP- finally we end up as friends and
4th: I end up more secure than them. WTF???
With my husband things are slightly different in that he is AP and he sometimes really annoys me when he feels 'neglected'. I support him all the time and do way more than a lot of wives do. But sometimes he seems to have no capacity to entertain himself. He also had this idea that I'm his one and only soul mate and when he was younger he thought that if only he could find a wife, his life would be perfect and he would never have any problems again.
I was quite the opposite when we first met, I thought I don't really want a relationship because it's a lot of effort and arguing and I will lose my independence.
During a recent crisis, a friend of mine and my hubby conspired to assume that I'm terribly AP and fear that my husband will abandon me. Actually, he was constantly in my hair and I wished he would 'abandon' me for a few hours every now and again so that I could do my own things. I could hardly convince the silly buggers that I actually want to be left alone.
Sorry about the wall of text. This is the first time I've suspected I'm FA rather than AP and it's just all welled up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 22:35:26 GMT
One of the best articles I've read so far - whilst I am realising that the FA in me is likely more AA (Anxious rather than Fearful Avoidant) (but which is less referred-to) and that I don't do any of the AP manipulation things, plus that as a Hoffman grad I have worked through the parental stuff - this is really well written regarding some of the specific reactions / feelings and how to address them: www.goodtherapy.org/blog/ending-anxious-avoidant-dance-part-2-built-in-path-to-healing-0518175 |
|
|
|
Post by squirrelkitty on Aug 4, 2018 22:37:47 GMT
One of the best articles I've read so far - whilst I am realising that the FA in me is likely more AA (Anxious rather than Fearful Avoidant) (but which is less referred-to) and that I don't do any of the AP manipulation things, plus that as a Hoffman grad I have worked through the parental stuff - this is really well written regarding some of the specific reactions / feelings and how to address them: www.goodtherapy.org/blog/ending-anxious-avoidant-dance-part-2-built-in-path-to-healing-0518175Thanks, I will read it now. What's a Hoffman grad? |
|
|
|
Post by brokenbiscuit on Aug 4, 2018 22:55:13 GMT
A fearful avoidant has the emotional traits of both an anxious and a dismissive, whilst retaining the ability to act like neither
No one here can really diagnose you, but there is nothing I have seen in your post that suggests you are clingy or anxious when love isn't reciprocated, so there is a good chance you are not FA or a AP.
You do seem keen (from what I sense) to avoid people quite a lot and retain a sense of independence, so my guess is you may be a DA? Again, I really don't like to diagnose you, especially because I am not a DA so have only a vague knowledge of their mindset based on what I've read
None of us know for sure, and you sure as hell don't it seems.
Verdict: time for therapy!
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Aug 4, 2018 23:03:16 GMT
This is kind of funny timing to me, because I just told my FA ex that he is FA, and he was shocked and said he's AP. I'd been textbook AP most of my life, relatively recently moving into secure (which improved our second try at a relationship, but not enough to get out of his hot/cold FA cycling), and I'm quite certain now he is textbook FA. But most of his past relationships have sounded like they were short term passionate toxic blow outs with DAs, which I think is why he assumed that.
He's also told me in the past he's tested higher avoidance but seems to have blocked that out or something, I don't know.
I think the biggest difference is FAs find it so hard to trust others. That's not a typical AP trait. I've seen graphs with positive/negative views of self and positive/negative views of others as the X and Y axis. AP is negative self / positive others -- validate and save me with your attention! FA is negative both -- you may not understand how to meet your own needs or trust others to help.
Other differences are APs tend to commit and hold fast, even when they shouldn't (I don't think I've ever immediately felt relief from a breakup), whereas immature FAs in my experience are totally ambivalent and unsure what they feel unless they're with avoidant or otherwise unavailable partners. Like, AP / Secure triggers the avoidance side of FA because the partner isn't keeping the FA at arm's length and there's stress from fear of engulfment (which deeper down is fear of dependency/abandonmemt). Give the FA enough space to de-stress, and if they really do like you, they may feel separation anxiety: go away, no wait, too far, come back, no wait... They may break up when overwhelmed but try to find ways to downgrade you and keep you around to see if that's more manageable for them. But with a distant partner, they feel their anxiety activated and feel desire and pull that they won't feel for a partner they don't need to doubt. Then the toxic DA/anxious dance may ensue.
Basically, all the FA relationships may have some degree of instability, no matter the pairing.
In regards to you wanting to hide when you like someone, as an AP, I've definitely felt that way. Except I've felt it completely as a fear of possible rejection.
I've told my FA ex on multiple occasions, before realizing we had attachment style issues, that we tend to come to the same conclusions eventually, but the way we reach them is just wildly, wildly different. He's always said he likes the way I think, and it is very different from how he thinks. I suspect this is because we both have had deeply rooted fears of abandonment, but we have also had very different coping mechanisms for how we've tried to avoid abandonmemt due to the differences in our different insecure styles.
|
|
|
|
Post by squirrelkitty on Aug 4, 2018 23:05:14 GMT
A fearful avoidant has the emotional traits of both an anxious and a dismissive, whilst retaining the ability to act like neither No one here can really diagnose you, but there is nothing I have seen in your post that suggests you are clingy or anxious when love isn't reciprocated, so there is a good chance you are not FA or a AP. You do seem keen (from what I sense) to avoid people quite a lot and retain a sense of independence, so my guess is you may be a DA? Again, I really don't like to diagnose you, especially because I am not a DA so have only a vague knowledge of their mindset based on what I've read None of us know for sure, and you sure as hell don't it seems. Verdict: time for therapy! I didn't cite any of my clingy or anxious behaviours in this post and focused more on the avoidant ones, as I wanted to focus more on those at the moment. I already know all my anxious behaviours and didn't want to divulge them again because I've already spoken about them with my therapist/ friend. I'm pretty sure I'm not dismissive avoidant in that I normally view partners or friends more positively than myself and try to adapt to them and please them. I spend a lot of time time overthinking how I might annoy them and how to avoid that...(with the exception of my husband). I'm clearly afraid of rejection (not so much actual abandonment) and I would have a hard time convincing myself that I'm more amazing than my partners or friends. |
|
|
|
Post by brokenbiscuit on Aug 4, 2018 23:16:55 GMT
It's really hard to work it all out isn't it. I'm a FA as diagnosed by my therapist who is a trauma and attachment specialist, and I would definitely agree with her. However, there are a few things on the FA checklist I don't have. I think everyone, even the secure bastards, have various traits of all the different attachment types to various degrees, and these change throughout a person's lifetime based on their experiences, mental state and the type of relationship they are in. For example, I think someone could be a AP since childhood, have an abusive relationship with a narc maniac in adult life that completely wears her down and as a result she then becomes more avoidant with men in her subsequent relationships due to the damage done.
I have nothing to back the above theory up btw. I just made it up but it sounds logically right.
|
|
|
|
Post by squirrelkitty on Aug 4, 2018 23:21:15 GMT
alexandraThanks for your reply. Right now, it all hinges on the negative self/...... other question. I see people that I like as generally better than myself, e. g. nicer, more accomplished, more impressive etc, more intelligent.. (one or some of these characteristics, depending on the person's strengths; not better than me in every respect)... (But actually, after a while I find some areas in which I am better.) BUT I don't see them as more capable of providing a stable relationship/ having better relationship skills etc. I don't necessarily think they are personally more untrustworthy than other people, but I also don't just open up and trust them... It's like the idea that someone could be trustworthy (positive assumption) doesn't even exist in my mind, even though I don't actively make negative assumptions about the person... It's hard to explain. Once they have proven themselves to be trustworthy, though, I will tell them just about anything, though.... But they have to prove themselves trustworthy first. As far as the general public is concerned, I have a negative view: most people are boring, out to involve me in things I'm not interested in etc., out to judge me, only like me as long as I keep up a polite facade etc
|
|
|
|
Post by squirrelkitty on Aug 4, 2018 23:22:59 GMT
Those 'secure' bastards don't even exist in my opinion. I think every one has at least some insecure elements. It's really hard to work it all out isn't it. I'm a FA as diagnosed by my therapist who is a trauma and attachment specialist, and I would definitely agree with her. However, there are a few things on the FA checklist I don't have. I think everyone, even the secure bastards, have various traits of all the different attachment types to various degrees, and these change throughout a person's lifetime based on their experiences, mental state and the type of relationship they are in. For example, I think someone could be a AP since childhood, have an abusive relationship with a narc maniac in adult life that completely wears her down and as a result she then becomes more avoidant with men in her subsequent relationships due to the damage done. I have nothing to back the above theory up btw. I just made it up but it sounds logically right. |
|
|
|
Post by brokenbiscuit on Aug 4, 2018 23:34:56 GMT
Agree with that. I've read that even the secures can become insecure if they mix with us lot for too long! Ha It's definitely a sliding scale and no one is immune, it's just some people have more of certain traits than others and those are the ones you will find on here trying to make sense of it all. Just like you are  A good thing to do is to explore your childhood with a good trauma therapist. They can help you join the dots and make a narrative of your life that links your emotional ties with your parents to your (no doubt turbulent) relationship history. Then it's easier to get a bit of clarity on where you may stand in the attachment type pecking order. Or if you can't afford therapy, do one of those bloody online tests! |
|
|
|
Post by squirrelkitty on Aug 4, 2018 23:40:34 GMT
I'm pretty aware of my childhood traumas and have talked about them with my therapist but it's probably a good idea to talk about it some more. Right now in this moment I'm actually leaning towards an FA diagnosis because my parents did not abandon me. On the contrary, my mother was smothering and she 'always wanted children'.. It's just she didn't want the children that she got. I wish she had abandoned me physically rather than constantly complaining about what was wrong with me (nothing is wrong, I'm a total overachiever and was her carer for her BPD when I was a kid, but it was never good enough.) Agree with that. I've read that even the secures can become insecure if they mix with us lot for too long! Ha It's definitely a sliding scale and no one is immune, it's just some people have more of certain traits than others and those are the ones you will find on here trying to make sense of it all. Just like you are A good thing to do is to explore your childhood with a good trauma therapist. They can help you join the dots and make a narrative of your life that links your emotional ties with your parents to your (no doubt turbulent) relationship history. Then it's easier to get a bit of clarity on where you may stand in the attachment type pecking order. Or if you can't afford therapy, do one of those bloody online tests! |
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Aug 5, 2018 7:06:44 GMT
Does it matter?
The labeling and defining is a way of remaining stuck - change comes from noticing, accepting, investigation on a visceral level and allowing the experience to be. Rationalism can be a way of holding on by thinking through rather than experiencing and letting go.
I think many of us are fluid in our attachment behaviors but bottom line is they are a reflection of us they are not us.
Diagnosis tends to make us further identified with rather than allowing opening to what is. Especially when the diagnosis is applied to a significant other.
We’re Homo sapiens - knowing (wo)men and knowing brings s feeling of control and security- what it doesn’t bring or allow is the experiential experience which opens us to change.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 8:55:04 GMT
squirrelkitty -
The Hoffman Course is a week's residential, full-on therapy week, that addresses your upbringing:
A GQ article states:
"The salient belief of the Process is the importance of childhood or, more precisely, the emotional discovery of the truth about the unique history of our childhood. This is what the psychotherapist Alice Miller calls the drama of being a child. "In order to become whole we must try to discover our own personal truth," she says, "a truth that may cause pain before giving us a new sphere of freedom." This is now a popular psychological belief, fast-tracked by John Bowlby's attachment theory, which believes that mental health and behavioural patterns are largely attributed to early childhood."
You are not supposed to disclose some of what happens, not for any other reason than would make sense if you attended it (I think, mainly, to remove subjectivity which may create resistance to the change), but one thing that has been mentioned in writing before (so I will disclose) is a day of literally bashing the %^$£ out of the past to process the hurt and anger, such that many of us had blisters on our hands.
. It is not a cult, or anything like that.
It is a real undertaking, it is hugely emotional (I cried for nearly a week) and it is expensive, but it had a massive effect on dealing . processing my upbringing, understanding myself more and also understanding others. It took quite a while to continue to process the changes (a couple of years) and I have made MASSIVE changes since I graduated.
This, and a Bowlby-centred / secure-focused therapist are the most valuable and effective things that have changed my attachment (although I didn't know it was that term until recently) understanding, ways and processing / changes towards Secure.
|
|
|
|
Post by squirrelkitty on Aug 5, 2018 9:23:20 GMT
That's a very good point and I agree. What I mean is that I want to know which of my strange behaviours are worse and need more working on. And I was so focused on AP stuff that I was unaware of some reactions that might be FA. If I can identify them, then I can also let them go. But if I'm not aware of them, they'll control my life. Does it matter? The labeling and defining is a way of remaining stuck - change comes from noticing, accepting, investigation on a visceral level and allowing the experience to be. Rationalism can be a way of holding on by thinking through rather than experiencing and letting go. I think many of us are fluid in our attachment behaviors but bottom line is they are a reflection of us they are not us. Diagnosis tends to make us further identified with rather than allowing opening to what is. Especially when the diagnosis is applied to a significant other. We’re Homo sapiens - knowing (wo)men and knowing brings s feeling of control and security- what it doesn’t bring or allow is the experiential experience which opens us to change. |
|
|
|
Post by brokenbiscuit on Aug 5, 2018 9:26:11 GMT
That Hoffman course looks wonderful. Reading some of the reviews and browsing their website now. I would love to go on the UK version of that
Does anyone want to lend me £3k?
|
|
