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Post by jacobsladder on Aug 6, 2018 2:51:25 GMT
As I see it..the question was open to everyone and just happened to be posted in the AP section. 🙂 Yeah, I put it in here as this is where everyone hangs out. Whoops. I won't do that again! 😁 You’re technically half AP, you get a pass haha To answer your original question, both of my phantoms and my mother have the same things in common. Teachers ✔️ Inconsistent ✔️ Caring but deeply troubled ✔️ Determined to break the cycle next time. Gonna need a lot of healing first though to experience genuine love. Bout to meet up with my first phantom in Japan, haven’t seen her in 3 years but I have the urge to poor my guts out to her about my new phantom like I would to my mother. We are fucked up creatures 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️ |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 4:13:24 GMT
Here’s a question... I’ve read that AD people are drawn to AP people. The way I see it, that doesn’t reenact childhood, it counters it, since DA were typically neglected, and AP partners are clingy. So it seems to me that while AP’s seek partners that recreate the inconsistent nurturing they received from their parents, DA’s look for the opposite, someone who will not neglect or leave them. I’ve also read this reenforces the DA belief that they are strong and independent and others are clingy and want too much from them. And also that this helps the DA maintain control, since they know the AP won’t leave them, this allows them to avoid painful abandonment. So it seems to me AP look to recreate their choldhood dynamics, and AD do the opposite. Thoughts? i think this is oversimplifying. my mother was neglectful but extremely intrusive psychologically. Meaning, i had to fend for myself but she was highly critical and invasive, as i was her scapegoat. She behaved in borderline ways. Her attachment style was AP but she had comorbid pathology- she was cruel and had no empathy for me. My father was an alcoholic and absent. he also is low on empathy. i was drawn to men who created a neglectful and abusive environment. but i COULD NOT see it until i was underneath it all. I thought i was choosing men who were strong and independent and capable. I was actually choosing narcissists. I recreated the dynamic i knew. abandonment in romantic has never really been an issue for me, really, i was the one to leave (very toxic relationships, very easy to leave once i got logistics taken care of). My recent partner was a different story for me, leaving him was never easy and i had to work through a lot of deactivation and distancing within myself, i truly have been able to bond with him. He actually is the reason i worked so hard to try heal this stuff up. Not just to try to make it work, but because i recognizes he deserved so much better than i was able to provide when i was triggered to cut it all the time and thwart the vulnerability i felt while falling for him. I didn't trust the more gentle vibe between us and picked a lot of fights thinking he was trying to trick me- i would feel ok and then suddenly think "oh f*ck i bet i did it again i never see it coming and there's no way i'm gonna risk this..." but over time i settled down and we developed trust. its just way different, and i'm way different. and i'm crazy sexually attracted to him. so that's possible too lol. Take that Freud!!!  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 4:15:38 GMT
Here’s a question... I’ve read that AD people are drawn to AP people. The way I see it, that doesn’t reenact childhood, it counters it, since DA were typically neglected, and AP partners are clingy. So it seems to me that while AP’s seek partners that recreate the inconsistent nurturing they received from their parents, DA’s look for the opposite, someone who will not neglect or leave them. I’ve also read this reenforces the DA belief that they are strong and independent and others are clingy and want too much from them. And also that this helps the DA maintain control, since they know the AP won’t leave them, this allows them to avoid painful abandonment. So it seems to me AP look to recreate their choldhood dynamics, and AD do the opposite. Thoughts? i think this is oversimplifying. my mother was neglectful but extremely intrusive psychologically. Meaning, i had to fend for myself but she was highly critical and invasive, as i was her scapegoat. She behaved in borderline ways. Her attachment style was AP but she had comorbid pathology- she was cruel and had no empathy for me. My father was an alcoholic and absent. he also is low on empathy. i was drawn to men who created a neglectful and abusive, overbearing and overwhelming environment. but i COULD NOT see it until i was underneath it all. I thought i was choosing men who were strong and independent and capable. I was actually choosing narcissists. I recreated the dynamic i knew. abandonment in romantic relationships has never really been an issue for me, really, i was always the one to leave (very toxic relationships, very easy to leave once i got logistics taken care of). My recent partner was a different story for me, leaving him was never easy and i had to work through a lot of deactivation and distancing within myself, i truly have been able to bond with him. He actually is the reason i worked so hard to try heal this stuff up. Not just to try to make it work, but because i recognized he deserved so much better than i was able to provide when i was triggered to cut it all the time and thwart the vulnerability i felt while falling for him. he is also dismissive and has his own "golden keys" outside the relationship like me , so our vibe was very easy, we have similar needs and preferences, just simpatico. I didn't trust the more gentle vibe between us and picked a lot of fights thinking he was trying to trick me- i would feel ok and then suddenly think "oh f*ck i bet i did it again i never see it coming and there's no way i'm gonna risk this..." but over time i settled down and we developed trust. its just way different, and i'm way different. and i'm crazy sexually attracted to him. so that's possible too lol. Take that Freud!!! |
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joan
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Post by joan on Aug 6, 2018 6:23:11 GMT
Interesting topic - the last relationship with a severely avoidant man, was attractive to me and felt like love simply because of the distance - it felt like coming home, but coming hope to my emotionally absent mother and physically absent father. So there was a sense of familiarity which equated with feeling "right" even though the dynamic was wrong. I guess we are wired to pick up on previous experience - for example we often stick with a style of dressing we enjoyed as a teen, or like the kind of houses we grew up in or whatever. There's something comforting about the familiar - even if it's a horribly toxic familiar sometimes it gives us a sense of belonging? yes, and as a matter of fact, i believe i passed up a great guy once because he wasn't familiar! he was so kind, so thoughtful, and was interested in me. There was a more dangerous type of man, that was edgy, pursuing me also. I remember thinking to myself - edgy guy, i know how to do that. i know what to expect and i can handle it. i've survived so far. (🤔) The nice guy, i felt nervous. i thought: i don't know what will happen. How do i do this? It was so uncomfortable not knowing how to behave or relate. He seemed so normal, with a happy family, a good job, he was funny, smart, and relaxed. it made me feel shame about my family and my hardship. the edgy guy didn't care about my family. duh. he didn't care about me either. But i didn't feel ashamed. that was probably the most important,, to avoid the shame i felt about growing up in such a weird house. So, edgy guy won, if you consider landing a deeply dismissive woman "winning". 😕 I would have hurt nice guy really bad- instead i hurt myself. Ah, the memories. 🤮😑😑 Juniper - I can totally relate to the feeling of shame with the thought of being with someone "nice" versus being with someone who's edgy or dark. You feel out of place, uncomfortable, and like an outsider with them and their circle of family and friends. In the same way I was attracted and unfortunately still am attracted to the edgy type I was attracted to those types of friends too. |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 6, 2018 7:46:55 GMT
So basically we are doomed aren't we I don't think so! I agree with other posters who say work towards healing first. I have always had a knack for finding all the avoidants (bad for being AP). But now that I've been moving into secure, a funny thing has happened that I used to think was impossible. I'm physically attracted to different types of people than I used to be... guys who seem a lot less edgy. I need to give it more time to see how it plays out once I'm actually in a new relationship, but as soon as a guy gives avoidant clues now, I lose interest! I'm feeling very optimistic that we are not all doomed -- but this all depends on if I can avoid any further cycles with my ex FA  (I'm pretty sick of him suddenly dumping me, though.) |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 13:35:36 GMT
yes, and as a matter of fact, i believe i passed up a great guy once because he wasn't familiar! he was so kind, so thoughtful, and was interested in me. There was a more dangerous type of man, that was edgy, pursuing me also. I remember thinking to myself - edgy guy, i know how to do that. i know what to expect and i can handle it. i've survived so far. (🤔) The nice guy, i felt nervous. i thought: i don't know what will happen. How do i do this? It was so uncomfortable not knowing how to behave or relate. He seemed so normal, with a happy family, a good job, he was funny, smart, and relaxed. it made me feel shame about my family and my hardship. the edgy guy didn't care about my family. duh. he didn't care about me either. But i didn't feel ashamed. that was probably the most important,, to avoid the shame i felt about growing up in such a weird house. So, edgy guy won, if you consider landing a deeply dismissive woman "winning". 😕 I would have hurt nice guy really bad- instead i hurt myself. Ah, the memories. 🤮😑😑 Juniper - I can totally relate to the feeling of shame with the thought of being with someone "nice" versus being with someone who's edgy or dark. You feel out of place, uncomfortable, and like an outsider with them and their circle of family and friends. In the same way I was attracted and unfortunately still am attracted to the edgy type I was attracted to those types of friends too. it's very much an outsider feeling. In dating, people tend to ask about your life, (this is one reason i do not pry) and i understand now that many people have childhoods and families they can appreciate and tell funny stories about without censoring to make it all palatable. To tell the truth about my life caused awkward silence, or shock, or misunderstandings. I felt that if i were as open as people would like to be they would pity me but i didn't want pity. I was embarrassed by the conditions i grew up in. I didn't want to be judged or misunderstood, i just wanted to be me the best i could and leave that behind. But it comes up , over time. It didn't take me long to discover that i didnt want to talk about it. I DIDNT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. That, i'm sure, is a small but significant piece to picking partners who don't care. they don't care about your backstory. they don't ask. What a relief. And the downside? You end up with someone who doesn't care. As a dismissive , i had a pat vision of my childhood as idyllic because i guess i took the parts that made me ok and told myself that was the whole. I remembered the woods, my animals, fishing by myself at our pond, the woods, my animals, fishing by myself at our pond, the woods, my animals, fishing by myself at our pond, the woods.... and i told LOTS of great stories about that. there is always- "so tell me about your family? " CRASH CRASH CRASH - and i couldn't articulate what was wrong. I didn't quite know. Now i do- but then it was a block of unnamed horror. Can we just not?!!! Can we just eat and go to a movie?!! Shit!! We had a thread about shame and another dismissive mentioned it too- the fear of being judged for how i has been abused, as if someone would think it was a flaw in me that caused it. I never thought it was a flaw in me, i felt that i needed to explain that i wasn't horrible. What a terrible feeling. I felt like i always needed to convince people, i'm that that bad. Again, conditioning by a cruel mother who always told me- "you really are that bad!!" I am so happy that all this has changed for me! I can share here and appreciate quite emotionally how far i have come! it chokes me up. |
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Aug 6, 2018 18:24:59 GMT
Aren't you more secure Anne? Fancy a pint? I'm mentally stable, honest! B, are you asking me out ? Yes, I am more or less secure, but still have some triggers under stress and some ap and maybe fa traits. I thought we could do some emotional regulation techniques together over a couple of glasses of wine 😎 |
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 7, 2018 1:42:20 GMT
B, are you asking me out ? Yes, I am more or less secure, but still have some triggers under stress and some ap and maybe fa traits. I thought we could do some emotional regulation techniques together over a couple of glasses of wine 😎 That sounds..so secure of you. I think that should be your new pick up line. 🙃 |
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Post by leavethelighton on Aug 7, 2018 23:49:33 GMT
Yes, not in dating partners-- I mean there is some pattern there but also not really-- but in people I have the most feelings for who are not dating partners. Same patterns over and over. Well hopefully not anymore. It is subconscious, but I also am not sure I really agree it always has to do with one particular parent we had. Also I don't think it's always related to the first moment of meeting, but I'm sure our subconscious minds (mutually?) pick up on something early on. And so the patterns play out.
The nice thing about attachment theory is you can start to move away from the "it's them...all of them" towards "it's me."
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Post by leavethelighton on Aug 7, 2018 23:57:06 GMT
I thought we could do some emotional regulation techniques together over a couple of glasses of wine 😎
That actually sounds surprisingly appealing |
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Post by epicgum on Aug 30, 2018 22:52:58 GMT
Here’s a question... I’ve read that AD people are drawn to AP people. The way I see it, that doesn’t reenact childhood, it counters it, since DA were typically neglected, and AP partners are clingy. So it seems to me that while AP’s seek partners that recreate the inconsistent nurturing they received from their parents, DA’s look for the opposite, someone who will not neglect or leave them. I’ve also read this reenforces the DA belief that they are strong and independent and others are clingy and want too much from them. And also that this helps the DA maintain control, since they know the AP won’t leave them, this allows them to avoid painful abandonment. So it seems to me AP look to recreate their choldhood dynamics, and AD do the opposite. Thoughts? I think the dichotomy that the DA is recreating is enmeshment. The AP, like their parents, seeks to enmesh and control the DA....the DA seeks someone who will attempt to control them but whose control they can resist. (Unlike their parents) I agree with brokenbiscuit, I'd never want to date an avoidant like myself. |
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(I'm pretty sick of him suddenly dumping me, though.) 
