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Post by alexandra on Aug 8, 2018 6:22:27 GMT
For the FAs out there, when you get stuck in one of these long cycling relationships and you really care about your partner but keep hurting them / breaking up with them (fear-based behavior not malicious, but still repeatedly), yet don't want to let them go from your life either... what's the kindest thing your ex-partner can do for you that's also healthy?
Assume your partner fully understands the situation and will be fine, doesn't need your emotional support or validation, has not dismissed your worth as a person but has given up on the romantic relationship / wants to end that cycle. If you were not yet ready to confront your personal issues, would there be any course of action from your ex-partner you would find helpful at all?
Such as, staying very distant friends with tight boundaries once enough time has passed after the breakup for the feelings to have been extinguished? (Or would that inevitably be just unavailable enough to fan the pull flames causing you pain later on?)
Totally ignoring your pull attempts to make them stay friends with you after you dumped them, leaving you alone to either deal with feeling abandoned or to keep justifying the breakup/avoiding the pain?
Something else?
Just seems like no good obvious options, and I'm trying to find the best one most likely to allow both parties to be happy while avoiding more romantic cycles.
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Aug 8, 2018 6:56:10 GMT
I would just say "sorry, I can't do a relationship with you" at the moment and ask for some space and that if he can respect that you will consider being friends further down the line
Do not block/do silent treatment. That's very harming to anyone regardless of who they are, unless they are a vindictive truly toxic person in which case it doesn't matter. Us FAs are highly sensitive creatures despite what some may think and we do get hurt very easily.
Staying friends with an ex is usually not a great idea but I do realise that some people can do it. I can too, I have a big group of lovely ex gfs who I consider friends but I'm under no illusion these are the ones I didn't fall in love with/attach to. The ones I hold deep deep feelings for I would find it difficult to remain friends with. I'm not sure how your ex feels about you or vice versa.
If you truly care about this person, and I think you do as you are here asking a nice responsible question about how to handle an ex partners feelings, then I would sensitively raise the topic of attachment theory with him. Maybe give him some examples of how his behaviour relates. It may be the nudge he needs to go get help, which would be a wonderful gift from you if that were to happen.
FAs are usually reluctant to get help (facing our demons is tough, we would rather run than look into the abyss) but hey, you never know. This guy may take it all on board and try to reflect on why he does what he does and try to fix it
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Aug 8, 2018 7:10:16 GMT
I would just say "sorry, I can't do a relationship with you" at the moment and ask for some space and that if he can respect that you will consider being friends further down the line Do not block/do silent treatment. That's very harming to anyone regardless of who they are, unless they are a vindictive truly toxic person in which case it doesn't matter. Us FAs are highly sensitive creatures despite what some may think and we do get hurt very easily. Staying friends with an ex is usually not a great idea but I do realise that some people can do it. I can too, I have a big group of lovely ex gfs who I consider friends but I'm under no illusion these are the ones I didn't fall in love with/attach to. The ones I hold deep deep feelings for I would find it difficult to remain friends with. I'm not sure how your ex feels about you or vice versa. If you truly care about this person, and I think you do as you are here asking a nice responsible question about how to handle an ex partners feelings, then I would sensitively raise the topic of attachment theory with him. Maybe give him some examples of how his behaviour relates. It may be the nudge he needs to go get help, which would be a wonderful gift from you if that were to happen. FAs are usually reluctant to get help (facing our demons is tough, we would rather run than look into the abyss) but hey, you never know. This guy may take it all on board and try to reflect on why he does what he does and try to fix it And big kudos to you and your question. It says a lot about your character. I'm sure your ex hurt you a lot with his behaviour in your relationship, and he will be aware of that. But even so, you are trying to handle things in a sensitive and empathetic manner and that says a lot of good things about you. So many people put the cold switch on at the end of a relationship and think about self preservation first, but you are showing compassion towards another person as part of your personal transition . Ten internet points to you! |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 8, 2018 8:16:05 GMT
I personally think that the kindest thing is often to really let them go - healing doesn't happen when the pattern is repeatedly replayed - sometimes it takes real paid to initiate healing. Remaining in touch requires a conscious breaking of the cycle in order for it to be more healthy for both partners. It may seem as though in leaving you're being unsupportive - lots of people with AP attachment seem to feel this, but in reality you're allowing for growth and detaching with love. It may not be what the FA wants - and it may hurt in the short term, but without change, the toxic cycle is inescapable and in some relationships at least, remaining in contact avoids either side having to confront their reality.
As brokenbiscuit said - being open about what you're doing rather than disappearing is important too.
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Post by lilyg on Aug 8, 2018 11:38:25 GMT
Let go. I advise you a clean break because it's kinder to you both in the long run. I've read your story with him and it seems he needs to reach that breaking point, and that you're still working on your own attachment wounds, so you have to focus on yourself. Explain everything you're doing with kindness and wish him the best. You seemed to have reached a very empatethic place for both of you, and I understand is really painful to let go but you're gifting him an opportunity to grow. And you're gifting you with an opportunity to heal.
Be true to your own desires and needs, and if you're still hoping to get back with him and he's not reached that breaking point and worked on his own attachment, let go.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 8, 2018 21:56:52 GMT
To all: thank you for the responses. I have taken our second breakup as permanent, so I guess I thought the pulling would stop. Then when it started again yesterday, I was at a loss for how to respond. Just disappearing, ignoring him outright without stating my intentions, isn't something I would ever do (even though he's done it to me). I was thinking of the "ignore" options in terms of either telling him that we need space for an indefinite time period or in terms of being responsive to his outreach but specifically ignoring pull statements/behaviors. I want to be as respectful as possible. I'm not looking for excuses to stick this out or get back with him. He's pushed me away and blamed me for it so many times, dumped me twice, told me repeatedly he's lost attraction to me, told me he wants to work things out with me then broken things off with me almost immediately after. I basically just want us to both be okay and happy, and it would be nice if we could find a healthy way to do that and still have occasional contact. However, I don't really see that being feasible because he's not willing to face his own stated issues. Plus, even though I'm doing okay, I still need space to get over the 2.5 year ordeal and totally move on. Where my difficulty deciding what to do next is coming from is based on past discussions we've had. I went no contact once before, for 8 months after he first dumped me (after a year seriously together). He was trying to immediately stay present in my life in exactly the same emotional capacity but without sex or commitment, even though I declined and asked for space. I could only get him to respect my boundaries by convincing him that he'd be doing me a favor! He finally "got" it, since his intent was never malicious, and I said thank you and blocked him everywhere. And probably learned something about being on the receiving end of AP-esque behavior  Since we reconnected late last year, the one thing he has been consistent about is stating how happy he is that I am in his life again. It turned out my time "away" was very hard on him, and that he'd eventually tried to reach out through friends. He has repeatedly told me since then that his biggest fear is losing me again. As he push/pulled his way closer and closer to me and quasi-dated me for nine months, he'd say during pulls that he really doesn't understand his own motivations... he wanted to be with me really long-term, and I'm a great partner, but the fear of screwing it up again, hurting me, and losing me was holding him back from taking the leap. Because I didn't understand FA then, and didn't realize our first breakup was FA/AP clashing, I assured him that what had hurt me the most the first time was his lack of communication, and that no matter what happened, we were also friends and if he kept openly communicating to me about what he was feeling I saw no reason I'd have to shut him out again. That I confronted so many of my own issues and had a much healthier mindset in general, and I was no longer taking any of this personally, so I'd be okay no matter what (and this is still true even now). I also promised I'd never block him again. Even though these assurances were based on flawed information, I feel really badly going back on my word, especially since he has such problems trusting people as it is. I don't feel unsupportive exactly, since I feel like I've been a supportive partner all along, but I do feel like I'm going to let him down. I don't feel a need to block him this time, but I'd still be shutting him out again after I said I wouldn't, and that sucks. I don't ever say things like that unless I mean them, especially to people I love. At the same time, I'd be letting him go because he high-level acted exactly the same way as he did last time, and that is not acceptable behavior to me. I also feel like my presence causes him such pain and confusion, even if he's still looking at it through this mirror of he'd be okay if he just didn't feel so bad that he's hurting me. So why would I want to keep causing that? I'm not responsible for his feelings, but I don't wish to go back on my word or to make him feel any worse. This isn’t anyone’s fault, but he's not a little kid anymore. I wish he’d take responsibility but I know it’s unlikely, as I know first-hand how scary and difficult it is... and moreso for an FA. I don’t have ill-will and just want to be as fair to him as I can be. brokenbiscuit, thank you for your kind words, and I'll take my first ever Internet points, ha ha. I'll answer you with a couple more specifics to your post when I get a chance. |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 9, 2018 7:32:30 GMT
I suppose I took the advice. We talked today for a while, and he arranged for a couple small things to be done for me that make my life easier, which was very sweet. However, at the end of the conversation he said he was tired but happy we talked and hoped we could do it again soon. I said not for a long while. He said oh, I understand. I asked... do you? Because you don't always treat me fairly, and sometimes that's hard to handle. He got very quiet and said, that's the first I'm hearing about this. I said, don't go angry. He said, I'm not, I'm going tired. Good night. And that was the end of that (he was definitely angry). I feel absolutely terrible about it, and wasn't intending to say it. Even though it's true, and even though I can't imagine how he doesn't know it! Best I can think of for the disconnect, he was communicating honestly throughout this time around, and can't be any more fair than that. But the pushing and pulling when he knew how much I loved him, and getting back together followed so soon by an ambiguous break up followed by silent treatment... I didn't say anything that isn't true. brokenbiscuit, the specifics I mentioned above... this second time around, that I've moved into secure, I've tried to talk to him about the issues (without judgement or blame!). He can handle some depth of issues, and we've had a lot of success with mostly resolving things like our past communication struggles. But if we get to a deep enough level, which is basically anything relating to our insecure dynamic and his part in it, he completely shuts down and gets avoidant. I know that this is a combination of being too scared to confront his old wounds and him feeling shame about his behaviors that hurt me, but we can't get unstuck if he's not ready. That is at the core of why I gave up on the romantic relationship. But I did try to leave him with a couple leads first if he wanted to explore his issues on his own. After he dumped me the second time, but ambiguously said wait he had to think more about it first and left it unclear, I emailed him a link describing toxic dynamics (reasons why and what to do about them) with a short email that said my primary need right now is to get out of bad cycles and we can either do it together, which I'd prefer, or I will just do it on my own by leaving. His response was... two weeks of silent treatment. He has since told me he goes silent to escape both the fear of hurting me and the pain of the idea of hurting me -- I've been very clear that it's still not okay. About six weeks after the second dumping, we met up to return possessions that were at each other's residences. I apologized for a couple past incidences of AP behavior that I knew he'd never understood, which I could articulate for the first time, and said things actually had improved for us because since we reconnected, I'd shifted to earned secure. He's somewhat aware of attachment theory and once told me he thinks he must be AP... but with high avoidance. So, during this conversation, I asked him if knew what FA was? He said no, and got immediately defensive. I said, I have nothing else to say about it, just consider looking into this thing that exists... that I just brought up the term because I want him to have all the information to decide to do with as he chooses. He said he'd think about looking into it, but in general he finds attachment theory inactionable because humans are irrational. This made me pretty damn sad to hear, because I disagree so strongly, but I didn't say anything else because his statement confirmed all I needed to know about where he's at in his process. I believe he's deeply attached to me, and stuff I say like that does tend to sink in with him eventually. Usually a couple months later. However, if you asked him if he loves me, I think he'd say no he just cares for me as a friend, and then he'd reminisce about a highly passionate and toxic shorter relationship he had years ago with a DA who cheated on him. There are times when he’s pulled that my gut was sure he loved me… but right now it feels like he’s written me off and justified it as not the perfect one and that’s the end of that. |
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Post by lilyg on Aug 9, 2018 8:46:10 GMT
Hey, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I can understand separating from someone you love is very difficult. You feel guilty (because you broke your word, or that you 'abandoned him' which frankly, you know it's not true), but the truth is that you've done plenty to try to have a more healthy relationship with him, and he has still not reached that breaking point.
You don't need to save him. You've talked and presented him with enough information about what he might be dealing with, but he's in charge to explore and understand himself more and to talk to you about it. You cannot save him. This is his journey. I think you have opened his eyes to his own battle, but he has to stop buying his own excuses and sweping things under the rug.
I guess that what I'm trying to say is that sometimes people meet good partners in a wrong time/mentality/clarividence to start a change inside them. He seems like a good guy who cares for you, you seem like a great, empathic woman. Give yourself some time and peace. Take lots of care!
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Aug 9, 2018 9:45:39 GMT
You've done more than enough to try to turn things around, but he seems to keep making excuses to stop the relationship continuing. Nothing more you can do, you have done plenty. If he does really love you he will feel the pain in time. Often the feeling of abandonment is a delayed response, and he will feel the hurt then. He may try to reach back out to you while he is going through this as he will start to feel emotionally overwhelmed and confused . Or hopefully he will revisit the information you provided him and take actions to heal himself, although this seems unlikely judging by the defensive wall he has put up inside himself. For someone with fearful attachment to face their fears, their past and themselves is a very difficult thing to do and can lead to a very overwhelming experience that is hard to comprehend and manage.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 9, 2018 17:55:06 GMT
Thank you for the support. I'm not trying to save him, I'm trying to save myself from toxic situations, but I want him to be okay and didn't want to leave in a way that makes things worse.
I hate pushing him away, it always feels unnatural and really awful, but I left it where I did and didn't go after him to "undo" what I said. Nor am I going to. I know it's for the best or I wouldn't have done it. When he's not pushing me away, our emotional connection is incredibly deep and like glue, so it's extremely painful for me to sever or reject his pulls.
There was no pushing / pulling our first seven months together, and even as AP at the time, I had zero anxiety at all. But I've learned that I'll be ending future relationships quickly if it starts seemingly out of no where or unrelated to me, and my partner does nothing to try to stop push/pull off the bat.
I do feel like I went above and beyond to do my best here and I don't expect him to face his defenses any time soon, if at all. Doesn't mean interacting with him at this point doesn't make me incredibly sad, or that I won't miss him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 18:00:08 GMT
Thank you for the support. I'm not trying to save him, I'm trying to save myself from toxic situations, but I want him to be okay and didn't want to leave in a way that makes things worse. I hate pushing him away, it always feels unnatural and really awful, but I left it where I did and didn't go after him to "undo" what I said. Nor am I going to. I know it's for the best or I wouldn't have done it. When he's not pushing me away, our emotional connection is incredibly deep and like glue, so it's extremely painful for me to sever or reject his pulls. There was no pushing / pulling our first seven months together, and even as AP at the time, I had zero anxiety at all. But I've learned that I'll be ending future relationships quickly if it starts seemingly out of no where or unrelated to me, and my partner does nothing to try to stop push/pull off the bat. I do feel like I went above and beyond to do my best here and I don't expect him to face his defenses any time soon, if at all. Doesn't mean interacting with him at this point doesn't make me incredibly sad, or that I won't miss him. you seem very kind, to both of you. i'm sorry and wish you the best. |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 9, 2018 23:10:48 GMT
Thanks, juniper. I suspect I'm going to be on the board a lot the next few days while I feel up-and-down crappy, but I know it will get better. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 2:32:22 GMT
Thanks, juniper . I suspect I'm going to be on the board a lot the next few days while I feel up-and-down crappy, but I know it will get better. it will. breakups suck. |
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Post by mrob on Aug 12, 2018 1:14:04 GMT
Yep. Exactly right, brokenbiscuit Here's hoping he hits bottom so hard he looks at this, rather than filling the emotional vacuum. |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 12, 2018 2:58:37 GMT
I hope so, for his sake, but I kind of doubt I'll be the thing to push him over the edge since he's the one who left again. If he ever does do the work for real and grows up, though, I'm sure he'll want to tell me.
I'm actually not concerned with how he's doing right now. We haven't spoken since I rebuffed his friendship the other day, and we're not going to. I've not been taking it so well the last few days, mostly because it's a big change to not be spending a lot of time with him anymore. But I'm not taking it nearly as hard as last time because I don't have attachment injuries and intense confusion layered all over the top of it, so that's good!
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