|
|
Post by notalone on Aug 17, 2018 15:52:15 GMT
There's a guy I went to high school with that I was really close friends with for 3 years. When I moved away from my home town 20 years ago, we lost touch, then we reconnected on Facebook about 3 years ago. About 6 weeks ago he sent me a message saying a whole bunch of sweet things and, in short, that he's always really liked me and he'd like to spend time together again. It caught me off guard. I know he's an awesome guy, but I'd never been interested in him romantically. Regardless of romance, he was a great friend and I wanted to see him, and I figured I’d see if romantic feelings grew organically. Over the next few weeks he sent me a ton of really sweet text messages, we talked on the phone, and finally we met up about 3 weeks ago. We had a great time, ended up holding hands and he put his arm around me. But I still wasn’t sure how I felt about him. The sweet messages from him continued at a slightly slower pace. I saw him last weekend and we had another great night...dinner, drinks, we baked cookies , listened to music, and talked until the wee hours of the morning. I was starting to have feelings. And then...we had sex. The next day he sent me a few sweet text messages. On Wednesday we spoke on the phone and I asked him if he wanted to see each other this weekend. He said yes and that he’d call me the next day. But he didn’t call, and I got anxious. I texted him “hello” at 9:30PM and he didn’t reply. I called him at 10:30PM, got his voice mail, and no call back. This morning I texted him “good morning” and he texted “good morning” back right away. I told him I’m busy on Saturday night and asked if he wanted to hang out tonight. He replied with a bunch of happy, blushy face emojis, and said he was supposed to see his dad and sister tonight, but he’d check and get back to me. The message seemed enthusiastic and warm. I’m waiting to hear back.
It bothered me that he didn’t call when he said he would, answer the text I sent last night, or call me back. I find there’s a catch 22 with being AP:
- On one hand I know it’s important to be open and authentic, to say what I want and need. This is important for everyone to do, but AP tend to struggle with it a lot, being chronic people pleasers, and putting the needs of other ahead of their own, until they erupt in protest behaviours or emotional outbursts.
- On the other hand I don’t want to come across as overly anxious, stress the guy out, push him away, or blow this out of proportion.
So my questions are…Do I address this or not? And if so how?
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 17, 2018 16:02:41 GMT
Hey Notalone.....I would, "kinda" address it....meaning...I would assume that he was busy or something came up or he just forgot....but when you see him, I would say. "I really love hearing from you and getting all those cute text messages from you. However, the last time we saw each other, we discussed that you would call me on x date...and when x date arrived, I did not hear from you and it concerned me which is why I sent you a text and then called you. I understand that we can all get busy, but in the future, if we make a plan for you to call me on y date and you get busy...can you send me a text and let me know. That way I won't get concerned that something happened to you."
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 17, 2018 16:34:07 GMT
Also..I want to address the people pleasing....the idea that APs give and give and sacrifice and are so attuned to our partners....not specifically to you notalone...but to myself as well....it is a very transactional approach...if I do these things I perceive you need, the you will do these other things that I need but have not told you that I need...not in a language you understand. I think there are a couple of flaws...first, we don't ever validate we are in fact meeting the other person's needs...we just assume that if we don't act out on what our AP nervous system is telling us and we still receive some level of positive feedback then somehow, we are meeting the needs of the other person. Second, the idea that our needs are too burdensome, invalid or somehow wrong is a lie from our childhood. Needs are needs..and sharing them is a good thing. I don't recommend text or calls to discuss them...it really is something for a face to face interaction. But men like to know what will make a woman happy, and when he does not get that from you...he will use prior relationships, his own mind, eve movies to come up with a plan. So definately share your needs...if anything...to show to yourself that you matter.
|
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Aug 17, 2018 21:06:30 GMT
I can totally put myself in your shoes, notalone! I can completely understand the frustration of the catch 22 with being AP as you illustrated it. Something I can feel every time I meet someone I develop feelings for. tnr9's suggestion is sensible. It allows you to express your needs, vent out your unmet needs (as to why he didn't text you back), but in a calm, non-overreactive way. |
|
|
|
Post by simply on Aug 20, 2018 5:46:27 GMT
I think that guys who are evasive with text replies, are not prompt with getting back to you and isn't responsive would usually is not a good sign to me. I would not suggest playing it cool as to not appear anxious and needy because then you encourage more avoidance behavior from his side and you put the ball in his court. I think it is quite natural in your case especially after having sex to want to know if the guy cares for you or not. I find that if a guy isn't very serious about you, he wouldn't put a lot of effort into maintaining the interaction with you (after having sex or not). It's like they don't want to seem too into you (or are really not that into you) yet don't want to completely ignore you or lose you yet. So I find this from (difficult experiences) a harsh lesson to learn from me. I always negotiated in my head that, maybe he's just not the texty type or he's busy etc. But I've learned the hard way that if a man is really serious or into a woman, no matter how busy they are, they will make it a point to keep your interest. I hope this helps.
I also think that trying to hide your neediness, if you are having that thought, is already probably a sign that of some off balance between the two of you.
Hugs.
|
|
|
|
Post by lilyg on Aug 20, 2018 9:59:48 GMT
Hmmm thought thing... Have you seen him these days? How have you felt with him? Usually, when I have sex with cool guys they are even more eager to contact me, if they send less messages after sleeping together, well... it's usually not a good thing, but if it was just once maybe he was legit busy that day. 3 weeks is too soon so maybe you should relax a bit. If he dissapears more days, though, I'll be wary about it. I just... I guess these type of things bother me too, maybe because I'm always with my phone and I find it sensible to expect at least a good night text if I'm getting to know someone/dating someone (I mean, I can send the text first but he has to answer). Maybe this is not reasonable for everybody, of course, but if this bothers you that much you can tell him nicely that you'd like to hear from him when you write him, even if it's not right away, of course. Try to text him something more meaningful instead of just a hello next time to initiate a small fun conversation  I think you really shouldn't obssess over the fact of you being anxious or not. I don't know if avoidants can help with this better, though. |
|
|
|
Post by notalone on Aug 20, 2018 16:25:07 GMT
tnr9 alpenglow & lilyg - Thanks for all your feedback! It turns out he was rehearsing late and didn’t want to wake me as he knows I go to bed and wake up early. We’ve been in contact several times since I wrote this post. He’s been good about contact generally, so I’m not going to sweat it. I’ll see where things go with him and in the mean time I’m living my life
|
|
|
|
Post by notalone on Aug 20, 2018 16:43:45 GMT
I think that guys who are evasive with text replies, are not prompt with getting back to you and isn't responsive would usually is not a good sign to me. I would not suggest playing it cool as to not appear anxious and needy because then you encourage more avoidance behavior from his side and you put the ball in his court. I think it is quite natural in your case especially after having sex to want to know if the guy cares for you or not. I find that if a guy isn't very serious about you, he wouldn't put a lot of effort into maintaining the interaction with you (after having sex or not). It's like they don't want to seem too into you (or are really not that into you) yet don't want to completely ignore you or lose you yet. So I find this from (difficult experiences) a harsh lesson to learn from me. I always negotiated in my head that, maybe he's just not the texty type or he's busy etc. But I've learned the hard way that if a man is really serious or into a woman, no matter how busy they are, they will make it a point to keep your interest. I hope this helps. I also think that trying to hide your neediness, if you are having that thought, is already probably a sign that of some off balance between the two of you. Hugs. simply thanks for your reply.
I honestly am not at all concerned that he doesn't care for me. I know he does. I've known him for 25 years, he's been very forward with sweet texts and telling me how much he cares for me, and I believe him. I believe that no matter how us dating turns out, he'll always care about me. But I think this was just one night that he got busy and didn't connect. He sent me a message the next morning and loads since then. As much as I understand it's important to be authentic, open and honour our needs and feelings, I really do think this was a case of my anxiety trying to sabotage me! Telling me if I don't hear from him one time it means he doesn't like me, I'm not good enough, bla, bla, bla! To which I say: "Shush anxiety! It's not true!" If I look at this rationally it was one night our of a few months, and the rest of the time he's been very communicative and lovely. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one, and see how things go.
|
|
|
|
Post by leavethelighton on Aug 21, 2018 23:13:26 GMT
I wonder if some of this is generational too. Like for some generations, taking a day to respond might not seem like a long time, since we were used to email, and before that, ink notes. LOL Or maybe it's my DA side talking  Also keep in mind that in today's world, some people are very consciously only checking texts a few times a day or limiting their cell phone usage so as to not be completely addicted or so as to focus on non-technological aspects of life. |
|
|
|
Post by notalone on Aug 22, 2018 0:08:53 GMT
I wonder if some of this is generational too. Like for some generations, taking a day to respond might not seem like a long time, since we were used to email, and before that, ink notes. LOL Or maybe it's my DA side talking Also keep in mind that in today's world, some people are very consciously only checking texts a few times a day or limiting their cell phone usage so as to not be completely addicted or so as to focus on non-technological aspects of life. I’m 39, so not sure about the generational thing 🤔 Also, this was about him not calling when he said he would, not about me wanting a quick reply. |
|
|
|
Post by happyidiot on Aug 31, 2018 3:42:17 GMT
There's a guy I went to high school with that I was really close friends with for 3 years. When I moved away from my home town 20 years ago, we lost touch, then we reconnected on Facebook about 3 years ago. About 6 weeks ago he sent me a message saying a whole bunch of sweet things and, in short, that he's always really liked me and he'd like to spend time together again. It caught me off guard. I know he's an awesome guy, but I'd never been interested in him romantically. Regardless of romance, he was a great friend and I wanted to see him, and I figured I’d see if romantic feelings grew organically. Over the next few weeks he sent me a ton of really sweet text messages, we talked on the phone, and finally we met up about 3 weeks ago. We had a great time, ended up holding hands and he put his arm around me. But I still wasn’t sure how I felt about him. The sweet messages from him continued at a slightly slower pace. I saw him last weekend and we had another great night...dinner, drinks, we baked cookies , listened to music, and talked until the wee hours of the morning. I was starting to have feelings. And then...we had sex. The next day he sent me a few sweet text messages. On Wednesday we spoke on the phone and I asked him if he wanted to see each other this weekend. He said yes and that he’d call me the next day. But he didn’t call, and I got anxious. I texted him “hello” at 9:30PM and he didn’t reply. I called him at 10:30PM, got his voice mail, and no call back. This morning I texted him “good morning” and he texted “good morning” back right away. I told him I’m busy on Saturday night and asked if he wanted to hang out tonight. He replied with a bunch of happy, blushy face emojis, and said he was supposed to see his dad and sister tonight, but he’d check and get back to me. The message seemed enthusiastic and warm. I’m waiting to hear back. It bothered me that he didn’t call when he said he would, answer the text I sent last night, or call me back. I find there’s a catch 22 with being AP: - On one hand I know it’s important to be open and authentic, to say what I want and need. This is important for everyone to do, but AP tend to struggle with it a lot, being chronic people pleasers, and putting the needs of other ahead of their own, until they erupt in protest behaviours or emotional outbursts. - On the other hand I don’t want to come across as overly anxious, stress the guy out, push him away, or blow this out of proportion. So my questions are…Do I address this or not? And if so how? What ended up happening with this?? I sure get the same worries and internal struggle! I like tnr9's idea of not addressing it right away by text but saying something in person. That has an added benefit of giving you some time to mull it over and attempt to self-soothe rather than make a reactive decision to send out a needy anxious text when you're feeling triggered and vulnerable. Expressing needs and being needy are not the same thing. It makes a big difference where you are coming from and how you express it. I also think it's important for us to express desires and expectations early on in dating, rather than stifling them and then blindsiding the guy when he previously thought you expected nothing of him and was used to that. Also weeds out men who aren't comfortable with a woman expecting anything from him. In this case it sounded like a reasonable need, to expect someone to remember to call you when they said they would or at least explain, as opposed to just AP neediness like being upset that someone didn't text you back for a couple hours when you were just chatting about something that didn't require a quick reply. I always see so much of myself in your posts. I struggle with being tempted to have sex with someone pretty early on (I really like sex!) and then not only getting attached faster because sex increases attachment for me, but also having it trigger some fears if they don't respond in the way I hope they would after we've had sex, because I realize we had sex without any commitment at all. What about you? |
|
|
|
Post by notalone on Sept 6, 2018 13:13:29 GMT
There's a guy I went to high school with that I was really close friends with for 3 years. When I moved away from my home town 20 years ago, we lost touch, then we reconnected on Facebook about 3 years ago. About 6 weeks ago he sent me a message saying a whole bunch of sweet things and, in short, that he's always really liked me and he'd like to spend time together again. It caught me off guard. I know he's an awesome guy, but I'd never been interested in him romantically. Regardless of romance, he was a great friend and I wanted to see him, and I figured I’d see if romantic feelings grew organically. Over the next few weeks he sent me a ton of really sweet text messages, we talked on the phone, and finally we met up about 3 weeks ago. We had a great time, ended up holding hands and he put his arm around me. But I still wasn’t sure how I felt about him. The sweet messages from him continued at a slightly slower pace. I saw him last weekend and we had another great night...dinner, drinks, we baked cookies , listened to music, and talked until the wee hours of the morning. I was starting to have feelings. And then...we had sex. The next day he sent me a few sweet text messages. On Wednesday we spoke on the phone and I asked him if he wanted to see each other this weekend. He said yes and that he’d call me the next day. But he didn’t call, and I got anxious. I texted him “hello” at 9:30PM and he didn’t reply. I called him at 10:30PM, got his voice mail, and no call back. This morning I texted him “good morning” and he texted “good morning” back right away. I told him I’m busy on Saturday night and asked if he wanted to hang out tonight. He replied with a bunch of happy, blushy face emojis, and said he was supposed to see his dad and sister tonight, but he’d check and get back to me. The message seemed enthusiastic and warm. I’m waiting to hear back. It bothered me that he didn’t call when he said he would, answer the text I sent last night, or call me back. I find there’s a catch 22 with being AP: - On one hand I know it’s important to be open and authentic, to say what I want and need. This is important for everyone to do, but AP tend to struggle with it a lot, being chronic people pleasers, and putting the needs of other ahead of their own, until they erupt in protest behaviours or emotional outbursts. - On the other hand I don’t want to come across as overly anxious, stress the guy out, push him away, or blow this out of proportion. So my questions are…Do I address this or not? And if so how? What ended up happening with this?? I sure get the same worries and internal struggle! I like tnr9's idea of not addressing it right away by text but saying something in person. That has an added benefit of giving you some time to mull it over and attempt to self-soothe rather than make a reactive decision to send out a needy anxious text when you're feeling triggered and vulnerable. Expressing needs and being needy are not the same thing. It makes a big difference where you are coming from and how you express it. I also think it's important for us to express desires and expectations early on in dating, rather than stifling them and then blindsiding the guy when he previously thought you expected nothing of him and was used to that. Also weeds out men who aren't comfortable with a woman expecting anything from him. In this case it sounded like a reasonable need, to expect someone to remember to call you when they said they would or at least explain, as opposed to just AP neediness like being upset that someone didn't text you back for a couple hours when you were just chatting about something that didn't require a quick reply. I always see so much of myself in your posts. I struggle with being tempted to have sex with someone pretty early on (I really like sex!) and then not only getting attached faster because sex increases attachment for me, but also having it trigger some fears if they don't respond in the way I hope they would after we've had sex, because I realize we had sex without any commitment at all. What about you? I didn't address that instance, but it happened again so I addressed it. He responded well and promised it wouldn't happen again, but it did. I would have addressed it again if I were more into him but the truth is at this point I don't feel like he's what I want in a partner, for a few reasons, so I'm letting it go. As I mentioned, we were friends before, so we're still in touch casually but I can't see continuing to date him. I feel some anxiety over the situation, I'm not sure if it's AP anxiety or normal anxiety, but my brain does question what it is about ME that made him not be more intent on pursuing me, but since I'm not really interested in a relationship with him, I remind myself that some people just aren't a match and redirect my thoughts. So that's that. In terms of sex early on and getting attached I'm the exact same way. I do get more attached and my expectations do escalate after sex. I also really like sex which makes things more complicated. Sometimes I wish I were more able to have sex without the emotional complications it brings since I enjoy it so much, but I have to accept that about myself and be careful, although frankly I tend to do it anyways a lot of the time and just manage my feelings afterwards, because damn it's fun! lol! Right now I'm not seeing anyone and that's kind of hard for me. Without attention and someone to cuddle and whatnot I tend to feel sad and lonely. But I'm trying to remind myself that I'm so much better off alone than in an unhealthy relationship, that even when I'm in relationships I'm often not happy, and that I have a lot of good things in my life despite not having a romantic relationship. It's a new mindset for me and part of the journey of dealing with my attachment difficulties. |
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Sept 6, 2018 17:35:54 GMT
I'm glad to read an update on your story, notalone, I was thinking about you! Sad to hear that he didn't keep his promise the second time around. I understand why you'd want to letting it go at this stage. I think this shows quite an advanced level of maturity (at least for people like us) to decide not to pursue someone when you see evidence that things would lead to an unhealthy relationship. It is indeed much better to be alone than in unhealthy relationship! Often I wonder why I even want to be in a relationship in the first place, since I've mostly been unhappy in them. One advantage of remaining single is that there a lot less triggers! Seeing that you have other good things going on for you in life is also a step in the right direction! It's often very difficult to see that. It's not a given that it is the case either (meaning that some of us don't have many good things in life either). So you can see that as a real advantage I'm also the same when it comes to sex. I don't have it often, but the the few times I do with someone, I also attach very quickly and it just clouds everything with emotional complications. |
|
|
|
Post by happyidiot on Sept 9, 2018 22:45:53 GMT
I didn't address that instance, but it happened again so I addressed it. He responded well and promised it wouldn't happen again, but it did. I would have addressed it again if I were more into him but the truth is at this point I don't feel like he's what I want in a partner, for a few reasons, so I'm letting it go. As I mentioned, we were friends before, so we're still in touch casually but I can't see continuing to date him. I feel some anxiety over the situation, I'm not sure if it's AP anxiety or normal anxiety, but my brain does question what it is about ME that made him not be more intent on pursuing me, but since I'm not really interested in a relationship with him, I remind myself that some people just aren't a match and redirect my thoughts. So that's that. In terms of sex early on and getting attached I'm the exact same way. I do get more attached and my expectations do escalate after sex. I also really like sex which makes things more complicated. Sometimes I wish I were more able to have sex without the emotional complications it brings since I enjoy it so much, but I have to accept that about myself and be careful, although frankly I tend to do it anyways a lot of the time and just manage my feelings afterwards, because damn it's fun! lol! Right now I'm not seeing anyone and that's kind of hard for me. Without attention and someone to cuddle and whatnot I tend to feel sad and lonely. But I'm trying to remind myself that I'm so much better off alone than in an unhealthy relationship, that even when I'm in relationships I'm often not happy, and that I have a lot of good things in my life despite not having a romantic relationship. It's a new mindset for me and part of the journey of dealing with my attachment difficulties. It's interesting how that happens, wondering why someone isn't pursuing you, as though it's a statement about your worth. I don't deal well with feeling rejected, even when it's someone I myself don't want a relationship with. It sounds like you're doing a good job of being mindful and not getting wrapped up in those thoughts when they come up. What anxiety are you unsure if it's "normal" anxiety or AP anxiety? |
|
|
|
Post by notalone on Sept 20, 2018 13:03:27 GMT
I didn't address that instance, but it happened again so I addressed it. He responded well and promised it wouldn't happen again, but it did. I would have addressed it again if I were more into him but the truth is at this point I don't feel like he's what I want in a partner, for a few reasons, so I'm letting it go. As I mentioned, we were friends before, so we're still in touch casually but I can't see continuing to date him. I feel some anxiety over the situation, I'm not sure if it's AP anxiety or normal anxiety, but my brain does question what it is about ME that made him not be more intent on pursuing me, but since I'm not really interested in a relationship with him, I remind myself that some people just aren't a match and redirect my thoughts. So that's that. In terms of sex early on and getting attached I'm the exact same way. I do get more attached and my expectations do escalate after sex. I also really like sex which makes things more complicated. Sometimes I wish I were more able to have sex without the emotional complications it brings since I enjoy it so much, but I have to accept that about myself and be careful, although frankly I tend to do it anyways a lot of the time and just manage my feelings afterwards, because damn it's fun! lol! Right now I'm not seeing anyone and that's kind of hard for me. Without attention and someone to cuddle and whatnot I tend to feel sad and lonely. But I'm trying to remind myself that I'm so much better off alone than in an unhealthy relationship, that even when I'm in relationships I'm often not happy, and that I have a lot of good things in my life despite not having a romantic relationship. It's a new mindset for me and part of the journey of dealing with my attachment difficulties. It's interesting how that happens, wondering why someone isn't pursuing you, as though it's a statement about your worth. I don't deal well with feeling rejected, even when it's someone I myself don't want a relationship with. It sounds like you're doing a good job of being mindful and not getting wrapped up in those thoughts when they come up. What anxiety are you unsure if it's "normal" anxiety or AP anxiety? I'm just never sure, especially while I'm experiencing the emotions, if the feelings I have around romantic situations are exacerbated by attachment wounding or not. Looking back at this now, I do think the idea that this was something to do with me is not accurate, and the thinking that it was about a fault with me does seem to line up with AP responses. Fortunately, this situation really didn't affected me much. I've been doing pretty well recently. This break from dating, as well as seeing my new therapist, is doing wonders for my peace of mind. I've been much more motivated, productive and happy at work, and I've been enjoying my friends and social life a ton. I miss intimacy, and I will go back to dating at some point, but I'd take this life over a dysfunctional relationship anytime! |
|
Also keep in mind that in today's world, some people are very consciously only checking texts a few times a day or limiting their cell phone usage so as to not be completely addicted or so as to focus on non-technological aspects of life.