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Post by kristyrose on Aug 17, 2018 17:37:56 GMT
Hello,
I am recovering AP working towards Secure, for context been in CBT for 7 years and EMDR for the past year to treat anxiety, depression, anxious attachment and trauma in childhood.
I've made some great progress but of course still struggle with some mild AP tendencies. I do not overly text, call or use manipulative tactics but I do employ reactivating strategies like childish tantrums when pushed too hard by my FA ex- I try to catch myself before this happens and usually can, but I messed up last weekend and acted out. At any rate, I took full responsibility and apologized to my ex on Monday of this week. We have been together over 3 years, 2 of them as a couple, then he broke up with me last year saying we fight too much, but then heavily pursued me after that and we have been back together since, though he cannot tolerate any title other than friends. Since I understand our dynamic and that he refuses to get some help for his issues, I'm accepting the way things are for now and still living my own life.
That all being said, he hasn't responded to my apology all week and while this is causing me some anxiety, it hasn't prevented me from functioning and having a pretty good week anyway. I have left him alone but decided last night to state my boundaries via text. I waited to send this at a time when I know work is calm for him and his week is wrapping up so as not to flood him. I stated that while I know he needs space and I am happy to always respect that, stonewalling is something we BOTH agreed not to do (I did it when he broke up with me for 2 months ) and that if either of us needs space, we simply tell the person and both parties respect it. I let him know that while I'm still here for him if he wants to reconnect, I'm hitting my limit and that this is my one boundary. I also told him if something is indeed wrong I am here for him ( he has an elderly mother so didnt want to just assume he's still mad)
I didn't threaten or beg, just stated my feelings and let hm know I am here but that this is something we both agreed upon.
I guess my question is, how do FA types feel about this kind of text? I truly want to give him his space and I get that our needs are quite different. In therapy I have learned how to take care of my own feelings etc- but also in doing that I have to state my needs as well.
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Post by goldilocks on Aug 17, 2018 20:10:01 GMT
Okay, so the two of you are not in a relationship currently, but have been in the past.
You started seeing one another again as friends.
You threw a childish tantrum over the weekend, apologised and then stated some rules that both of you have not consistently been keeping.
He has not contacted you all week.
So how would one feel to receive the text?
I think this conversation type is better to have in person than over text. I also would not feel an apology would undo a temper tantrum. I guess it beats a tantrum with no apology, but I´d rather have some peace and quiet then all the compensation in the world.
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Post by kristyrose on Aug 17, 2018 21:11:17 GMT
Okay, so the two of you are not in a relationship currently, but have been in the past. You started seeing one another again as friends. You threw a childish tantrum over the weekend, apologised and then stated some rules that both of you have not consistently been keeping. He has not contacted you all week. So how would one feel to receive the text? I think this conversation type is better to have in person than over text. I also would not feel an apology would undo a temper tantrum. I guess it beats a tantrum with no apology, but I´d rather have some peace and quiet then all the compensation in the world. Yeah I'm pretty sure no one likes tantrums and being ignored. Kind of a universal pain all around... I would definitely prefer a chat in person, I tried over the phone he refused. at any rate, he has asked to stay in my life and I'd like him in mine, but there needs to be some meeting in the middle. I'm not asking him to change and he has absolutely refused to acknowledge any responsibility for how he shows up. All I can do is be mindful of how I do, apologize and take responsibility when I am wrong, and try to understand his side. |
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Post by goldilocks on Aug 17, 2018 21:21:11 GMT
Maybe he will be back at some point, and you can negotiate then. But if he is making it clear that he is not going to be any different than he is in this moment, you can always ask yourself if this is meeting your needs. If not...
You are not in a relationship, you are a free agent. Do something nice for yourself and meet some new people.
Continue to work on not getting into tantrums.
Realise that you may show up in a healthier way for a secure man, and that may be an easier, more rewarding road to walk.
Or a fellow AP. You would have more similar needs.
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Post by kristyrose on Aug 17, 2018 23:17:10 GMT
Maybe he will be back at some point, and you can negotiate then. But if he is making it clear that he is not going to be any different than he is in this moment, you can always ask yourself if this is meeting your needs. If not... You are not in a relationship, you are a free agent. Do something nice for yourself and meet some new people. Continue to work on not getting into tantrums. Realise that you may show up in a healthier way for a secure man, and that may be an easier, more rewarding road to walk. Or a fellow AP. You would have more similar needs. Funny enough dating AP's makes me very FA! not surprising though, I've come to understand that can happen with people. But yes, you are right. I am a free agent and I need to keep the focus on my own healing and work and the other great people in my life! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 4:49:26 GMT
i've read your posts over time, it sounds like the same scenarios loop over and over.
I can't answer what an FA might feel but i think that you can probably count on the pattern of your bids being ignored and then reuniting eventually as if nothing happened. that might help you feel less anxious at this point, because he has never stayed absent and the situation is stable in an unstable way for a long period of time.
i'm not sure why you describe your AP as mild tendencies but i notice that is a very strong pattern on this site-
many posters describe a partner with severe issues while claiming mild issues themselves.
As i read the posts though, my interpretation is that posters who post about extreme partners while claiming mild tendencies to AP behavior are minimizing their own contributions to the dynamic and are therefore trapped instead of empowered to make real progress.
This isn't about blame, or shame- my perspective is that once you can see your shadow in this you can stop projecting it on someone else. Anne12 posted a great thread on that in the General forum, the title says something about working with the shadow.
These are simply my observations, opinions, and a suggestion for reading the shadow thread. it may or may not be helpful to you, but i wish you the best of luck!
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Post by kristyrose on Aug 21, 2018 21:46:34 GMT
i've read your posts over time, it sounds like the same scenarios loop over and over. I can't answer what an FA might feel but i think that you can probably count on the pattern of your bids being ignored and then reuniting eventually as if nothing happened. that might help you feel less anxious at this point, because he has never stayed absent and the situation is stable in an unstable way for a long period of time. i'm not sure why you describe your AP as mild tendencies but i notice that is a very strong pattern on this site- many posters describe a partner with severe issues while claiming mild issues themselves. As i read the posts though, my interpretation is that posters who post about extreme partners while claiming mild tendencies to AP behavior are minimizing their own contributions to the dynamic and are therefore trapped instead of empowered to make real progress. This isn't about blame, or shame- my perspective is that once you can see your shadow in this you can stop projecting it on someone else. Anne12 posted a great thread on that in the General forum, the title says something about working with the shadow. These are simply my observations, opinions, and a suggestion for reading the shadow thread. it may or may not be helpful to you, but i wish you the best of luck! Hi Juniper, Thanks for your perspective. I can't speak for other AP individuals, but I classify mine as mild because I've come a long way in the past year and showed up in a much worse way before with my ex. Recognizing when I'm being reactive, taking responsibility for my actions when I apologize and owing the fact that I not only contribute, but I am participating in the cycle is part of my continued recovery. Of course I will slip here and there, but I have taken a few more attachment tests, including Jeb's twice now and I am coming up Secure. I know that a test is not the entire picture of course but historically I always text on the higher end of anxious preoccupied. I think my post in the anxious board about how I acted very childish and it was embarrassing probably demonstrates how I do not minimize my contributions or impact on him. The more responsibility I take for myself, the lower the anxiety goes. As far as my ex, he is not interested in any kind of self exploration, therefore his behavior looks much worse in contrast to mine, but I do not view him as some kind of villain or monster. He has to live his own life the way he wants, so do I, but I cannot deny that the pull towards each other is so intense, neither one of us is really facing the reality of how toxic it is. I will definitely take a look at Anne12's post! I can never read too many articles or information on this stuff. Thanks! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 21:59:30 GMT
i've read your posts over time, it sounds like the same scenarios loop over and over. I can't answer what an FA might feel but i think that you can probably count on the pattern of your bids being ignored and then reuniting eventually as if nothing happened. that might help you feel less anxious at this point, because he has never stayed absent and the situation is stable in an unstable way for a long period of time. i'm not sure why you describe your AP as mild tendencies but i notice that is a very strong pattern on this site- many posters describe a partner with severe issues while claiming mild issues themselves. As i read the posts though, my interpretation is that posters who post about extreme partners while claiming mild tendencies to AP behavior are minimizing their own contributions to the dynamic and are therefore trapped instead of empowered to make real progress. This isn't about blame, or shame- my perspective is that once you can see your shadow in this you can stop projecting it on someone else. Anne12 posted a great thread on that in the General forum, the title says something about working with the shadow. These are simply my observations, opinions, and a suggestion for reading the shadow thread. it may or may not be helpful to you, but i wish you the best of luck! Hi Juniper, Thanks for your perspective. I can't speak for other AP individuals, but I classify mine as mild because I've come a long way in the past year and showed up in a much worse way before with my ex. Recognizing when I'm being reactive, taking responsibility for my actions when I apologize and owing the fact that I not only contribute, but I am participating in the cycle is part of my continued recovery. Of course I will slip here and there, but I have taken a few more attachment tests, including Jeb's twice now and I am coming up Secure. I know that a test is not the entire picture of course but historically I always text on the higher end of anxious preoccupied. I think my post in the anxious board about how I acted very childish and it was embarrassing probably demonstrates how I do not minimize my contributions or impact on him. The more responsibility I take for myself, the lower the anxiety goes. As far as my ex, he is not interested in any kind of self exploration, therefore his behavior looks much worse in contrast to mine, but I do not view him as some kind of villain or monster. He has to live his own life the way he wants, so do I, but I cannot deny that the pull towards each other is so intense, neither one of us is really facing the reality of how toxic it is. I will definitely take a look at Anne12's post! I can never read too many articles or information on this stuff. Thanks! i get what you're saying, but the sheer longevity of it all and your continued unhappiness and insecurity/anxiety doesn't jibe with a secure result, in my opinion. maybe you know the right answers on paper but you aren't living them , you haven't chosen the right answer for yourself that i can see. unless your right answer is to do this over and over again and accept less than you desire. maybe you have improved but you keep coming back to the same stuck place. it seems your bar for the treatment you'll accept is pretty low. and that it is emotionally detrimental to you. you set boundaries but what really changes, permanently? you boundaries seem permeable and kind of flimsy. you are almost done , cyclically- but not done. what about this is secure? it's not a criticism, it's an observation. i think you spend more time asking questions about him, than you do questioning what you are doing with him. and that's ok. but it looks like you're missing something. just my two cents, it may be challenging but isn't intended to harm. i am happy to zip it but assumed you're open. best to you! |
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Post by kristyrose on Aug 21, 2018 22:03:52 GMT
Hi Juniper, Thanks for your perspective. I can't speak for other AP individuals, but I classify mine as mild because I've come a long way in the past year and showed up in a much worse way before with my ex. Recognizing when I'm being reactive, taking responsibility for my actions when I apologize and owing the fact that I not only contribute, but I am participating in the cycle is part of my continued recovery. Of course I will slip here and there, but I have taken a few more attachment tests, including Jeb's twice now and I am coming up Secure. I know that a test is not the entire picture of course but historically I always text on the higher end of anxious preoccupied. I think my post in the anxious board about how I acted very childish and it was embarrassing probably demonstrates how I do not minimize my contributions or impact on him. The more responsibility I take for myself, the lower the anxiety goes. As far as my ex, he is not interested in any kind of self exploration, therefore his behavior looks much worse in contrast to mine, but I do not view him as some kind of villain or monster. He has to live his own life the way he wants, so do I, but I cannot deny that the pull towards each other is so intense, neither one of us is really facing the reality of how toxic it is. I will definitely take a look at Anne12's post! I can never read too many articles or information on this stuff. Thanks! i get what you're saying, but the sheer longevity of it all and your continued unhappiness and insecurity/anxiety doesn't jibe with a secure result, in my opinion. maybe you know the right answers on paper but you aren't living them , you haven't chosen the right answer for yourself that i can see. unless your right answer is to do this over and over again and accept less than you desire. maybe you have improved but you keep coming back to the same stuck place. it seems your bar for the treatment you'll accept is pretty low. and that it is emotionally detrimental to you. you set boundaries but what really changes, permanently? you boundaries seem permeable and kind of flimsy. you are almost done , cyclically- but not done. what about this is secure? it's not a criticism, it's an observation. i think you spend more time asking questions about him, than you do questioning what you are doing with him. and that's ok. but it looks like you're missing something. just my two cents, it may be challenging but isn't intended to harm. i am happy to zip it but assumed you're open. best to you! That's ok, I hear what you are saying, and like everyone here I am a work in progress. Just saying I tested securely which was very surprising. Also, I am working on getting out of the cycle but yes, I obviously am very immeshed in it and haven't been able to walk away. Coming on here with questions about him and posting about what is happening is helpful for me, it's an outlet, talking about my childhood and and questioning what I'm doing with him, happens more in therapy and EMDR. My boundaries are indeed flimsy, because I fear losing him, I fear the abandonment I felt as a child repeatedly along with the physical abuse. So, yes, I definitely have trouble staying with my boundaries when it comes to him. I state them, but I do not carry them out. |
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Post by kristyrose on Aug 21, 2018 22:15:49 GMT
juniper, Oh and all due respect, I would not take an attachment test just to put the "right answers" to get a secure outcome. If that were the case, I would not be in therapy or on here seeking advice and facing the truth about myself...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 22:19:19 GMT
i get what you're saying, but the sheer longevity of it all and your continued unhappiness and insecurity/anxiety doesn't jibe with a secure result, in my opinion. maybe you know the right answers on paper but you aren't living them , you haven't chosen the right answer for yourself that i can see. unless your right answer is to do this over and over again and accept less than you desire. maybe you have improved but you keep coming back to the same stuck place. it seems your bar for the treatment you'll accept is pretty low. and that it is emotionally detrimental to you. you set boundaries but what really changes, permanently? you boundaries seem permeable and kind of flimsy. you are almost done , cyclically- but not done. what about this is secure? it's not a criticism, it's an observation. i think you spend more time asking questions about him, than you do questioning what you are doing with him. and that's ok. but it looks like you're missing something. just my two cents, it may be challenging but isn't intended to harm. i am happy to zip it but assumed you're open. best to you! That's ok, I hear what you are saying, and like everyone here I am a work in progress. Just saying I tested securely which was very surprising. Also, I am working on getting out of the cycle but yes, I obviously am very immeshed in it and haven't been able to walk away. Coming on here with questions about him and posting about what is happening is helpful for me, it's an outlet, talking about my childhood and and questioning what I'm doing with him, happens more in therapy and EMDR. My boundaries are indeed flimsy, because I fear losing him, I fear the abandonment I felt as a child repeatedly along with the physical abuse. So, yes, I definitely have trouble staying with my boundaries when it comes to him. I state them, but I do not carry them out. i understand, it is a process. the fear behind all this is really horrendous - i experience it in a different but nonetheless powerful way as a dismissive. i wish we could just all be free of it, free to relax and be free. but, it's a struggle. even as far as i have come, i face my fear down on the regular, i have to overcome it just to let myself love and be loved. i'm thankful i am not in a relationship that hurts me anymore, i've endured a lot of abuse as well. it's just my fear that hurts me now. but it improves over time, especially as i share it and get support- here, and with my SO. gah, if it could be easier- but that's ok, we work with the hand we're dealt, right? at least we can all work at it together. that's a lot to be thankful for. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 22:20:00 GMT
juniper, Oh and all due respect, I would not take an attachment test just to put the "right answers" to get a secure outcome. If that were the case, I would not be in therapy or on here seeking advice and facing the truth about myself... i didn't mean it that way- i meant, maybe your heart hasn't caught up to your head, is all. not that you're faking. that you don't trust yourself fully yet. |
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Post by kristyrose on Aug 21, 2018 22:22:11 GMT
That's ok, I hear what you are saying, and like everyone here I am a work in progress. Just saying I tested securely which was very surprising. Also, I am working on getting out of the cycle but yes, I obviously am very immeshed in it and haven't been able to walk away. Coming on here with questions about him and posting about what is happening is helpful for me, it's an outlet, talking about my childhood and and questioning what I'm doing with him, happens more in therapy and EMDR. My boundaries are indeed flimsy, because I fear losing him, I fear the abandonment I felt as a child repeatedly along with the physical abuse. So, yes, I definitely have trouble staying with my boundaries when it comes to him. I state them, but I do not carry them out. i understand, it is a process. the fear behind all this is really horrendous - i experience it in a different but nonetheless powerful way as a dismissive. i wish we could just all be free of it, free to relax and be free. but, it's a struggle. even as far as i have come, i face my fear down on the regular, i have to overcome it just to let myself love and be loved. i'm thankful i am not in a relationship that hurts me anymore, i've endured a lot of abuse as well. it's just my fear that hurts me now. but it improves over time, especially as i share it and get support- here, and with my SO. gah, if it could be easier- but that's ok, we work with the hand we're dealt, right? at least we can all work at it together. that's a lot to be thankful for. Nodding as I read this... very glad to know you are not in a relationship that hurts you! I am always hopeful that I will get through this and out of the cycle... I think that is perfectly stated though, it is the fear that hurts you... that really resonates with me because i believe that is entirely true! It is the fear that is hurting me otherwise my good senses that I thought I had would be kicking in by now! My sister even asked me the other day, when will this be enough BS for you to just let go? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 23:04:27 GMT
i understand, it is a process. the fear behind all this is really horrendous - i experience it in a different but nonetheless powerful way as a dismissive. i wish we could just all be free of it, free to relax and be free. but, it's a struggle. even as far as i have come, i face my fear down on the regular, i have to overcome it just to let myself love and be loved. i'm thankful i am not in a relationship that hurts me anymore, i've endured a lot of abuse as well. it's just my fear that hurts me now. but it improves over time, especially as i share it and get support- here, and with my SO. gah, if it could be easier- but that's ok, we work with the hand we're dealt, right? at least we can all work at it together. that's a lot to be thankful for. Nodding as I read this... very glad to know you are not in a relationship that hurts you! I am always hopeful that I will get through this and out of the cycle... I think that is perfectly stated though, it is the fear that hurts you... that really resonates with me because i believe that is entirely true! It is the fear that is hurting me otherwise my good senses that I thought I had would be kicking in by now! My sister even asked me the other day, when will this be enough BS for you to just let go? well, like any of us- you're not done till you're done. truly. i had a high tolerance for pain. i got done, but it took what it took. so, no sense bearing yourself up. but, do keep it real. when you get all love-striken over someone who constantly lets you down and disrespects you, maybe just say to yourself, "I'm not done with his shit, I'd like to be, but I'm not." instead of "I'm not done loving him." those two phrases are so different, they have really different meanings and entirely different narratives behind them. one is real, the other is perhaps an illusion. not saying you don't feel love, or attachment. but it may be need disguised as love. or pain disguised as love. or even fear disguised as love. whatever it is, it wouldn't hurt to remind yourself you're going in for another round of shit to support it. sorry, "shit" is my word of the day because i went on a tangent on another thread lol! ill clean it up now, maybe use just emojis 💩💩💩 |
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Post by kristyrose on Aug 21, 2018 23:10:41 GMT
juniper, No, I think shit is the perfect word! I think the attachment to him is fear based, though I did really love him, maybe its both? Or mostly fear? You were right of course, he did come back just a day later after saying he needed space to invite me to a movie. We didn't go. but he sent another text a day later about something he read and when I asked how his day was, nothing. So, today I ask myself, what the F are you still doing waiting for a response? Useless. I will try to take your suggestion, that is indeed a new approach I've not yet tried but it definitely feels way more honest!
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