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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 22:35:39 GMT
I've been told so many times that I need to 'open myself to love'. And every time, I've though 'but f*cking HOWWWWWW?' Also, the first step to that is through healing yourself. Your coming into awareness and wanting to dig deeper is a great start! any partner who thinks you are selfish for focusing on your own issues is not the partner for you we are first responsible for our own healing, and that can work in conjunction with a partner who is supportive and not avoiding their own issues or contribution. not ever partner is a good partner- but you can make sure you are by resolving any obstacles to emotional availability within yourself. the partner i have now, is attractive inside and out to me. i couldn't say the same about previous partners. i'm glad i have been able to work things out with this man. so glad!! 😍
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 22:36:22 GMT
and, i'm happy as hell i left the others behind. they were not right for me!!
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Post by alexandra on Sept 1, 2018 22:58:43 GMT
any partner who thinks you are selfish for focusing on your own issues is not the partner for you Agreed! But! To avoid confusion, you've also got to make sure you've communicated it's what you're doing, and then the partner will respond however they're going to respond.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 23:00:48 GMT
any partner who thinks you are selfish for focusing on your own issues is not the partner for you Agreed! But! To avoid confusion, you've also got to make sure you've communicated it's what you're doing, and then the partner will respond however they're going to respond. absolutely. someone sincerely working on their issues generally will be inclined to communicate that, but if they don't, ouch, and hopefully will learn something useful from the fallout 😣
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Post by epicgum on Sept 2, 2018 0:38:25 GMT
I'm also going to think more on juniper 's comment about keeping your eyes on yourself and not thinking too much what's going on for your partner. I think there is something to that- I believe taking personal responsibility for your inner state and behaviour is job #1, but I think there is a part of my brain that is programmed to believe that is somewhat selfish, too. Maybe it just requires total trust and for each person to be fully open and responsible for their piece. I think focusing on yourself and not your partner is a little more nuanced, because it can be easy to use that as an excuse to maintain distance and be selfish if you're looking for one (like if you get into the trap of not taking responsibility for how your possibly legitimately hurtful behavior affects your partner and end up saying, "it's your problem, not mine"). It's more about finding the right boundaries of being considerate but not taking on someone else's personal issues, while always stepping up to be responsible for your own and not expecting someone else to save you. But it involves also not ignoring reasonable requests from your partner for help that aren't intrusive to the healthy boundary line and not outright dismissing your partner if they have communicated needs or feedback (even if it's not something you agree with). There's a skill to being able to recognize when something is bothering you because of past baggage, and it is yours alone to address, versus when something is truly bothering you about the relationship and the other's behavior towards you and you need to talk it out together. And yes, it's so very important that you and your partner can trust that the other is taking full ownership of their own individual personal baggage for a serious relationship to be functional. If there's real trust in yourselves and each other and you each have healthy boundaries, it leads to acting with good intentions out of mutual care (versus out of fear or acting out triggered behavior), to not manipulating or trying to fulfill a personal agenda of outcomes, and to each person being both able and willing to communicate their needs (essentially, secure behaviors). For those times you should consider how your actions are affecting your partner -- it's still about good communication and trust being key, much more than worrying about what's going on with your partner. Hopefully they have already communicated if something is bothering them, but if you're picking up on cues that something is wrong, it's worth asking. If your partner still can't communicate ("nothing, I'm fine," when they're not), then it's not up to you to take further responsibility to draw it out and worry about solving their issues. You can respect their process and decide if it's something you can live with or not, and not direct your focus past that extent. I've found it critically important to learn not to take things personally in those situations, so I can then consider the best course of action for myself with a clear head and not project or speculate about what they need. I agree that there's so much junk advice out there on this stuff. It really seems to present that only a very limited set of intentions exist and doesn't allow that sometimes it actually is more complicated and requires a step up on patience and communication before you assume and project on your partner. Plus, it doesn't encourage enough honest self-introspection. Welcome to the board. It's a great place to learn and get support on your journey to healing! I think for myself, because of my background it is a struggle to go from "me to we", but that's also a struggle because of dysfunctional communication and insecurity in the relationship (believing that it is fragile and your partner doesn't want to meet your needs, so every disagreement presents as urge to bin it all and flee)
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Post by alexandra on Sept 2, 2018 1:20:06 GMT
I think for myself, because of my background it is a struggle to go from "me to we", but that's also a struggle because of dysfunctional communication and insecurity in the relationship (believing that it is fragile and your partner doesn't want to meet your needs, so every disagreement presents as urge to bin it all and flee) Yes, exactly why I'd brought all that up. My ex FA partner also struggled terribly with the same, no matter how consistently I showed up for him, and eventually looked for excuses to justify deactivating and fleeing... twice. It's not intuitive to show up both for yourself and your partner when your starting point is low view of self and others.
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Post by epicgum on Sept 2, 2018 1:34:01 GMT
I think for myself, because of my background it is a struggle to go from "me to we", but that's also a struggle because of dysfunctional communication and insecurity in the relationship (believing that it is fragile and your partner doesn't want to meet your needs, so every disagreement presents as urge to bin it all and flee) Yes, exactly why I'd brought all that up. My ex FA partner also struggled terribly with the same, no matter how consistently I showed up for him, and eventually looked for excuses to justify deactivating and fleeing... twice. It's not intuitive to show up both for yourself and your partner when your starting point is low view of self and others. I'm not sure what else to say except...it sucks and the FA needs to learn to be more assertive...and not having any fights is actually a really bad sign.
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Post by epicgum on Sept 2, 2018 1:37:42 GMT
Also, the first step to that is through healing yourself. Your coming into awareness and wanting to dig deeper is a great start! any partner who thinks you are selfish for focusing on your own issues is not the partner for you we are first responsible for our own healing, and that can work in conjunction with a partner who is supportive and not avoiding their own issues or contribution. not ever partner is a good partner- but you can make sure you are by resolving any obstacles to emotional availability within yourself. the partner i have now, is attractive inside and out to me. i couldn't say the same about previous partners. i'm glad i have been able to work things out with this man. so glad!! 😍 Very happy for you juniper !
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Post by alexandra on Sept 2, 2018 1:55:07 GMT
Yes, exactly why I'd brought all that up. My ex FA partner also struggled terribly with the same, no matter how consistently I showed up for him, and eventually looked for excuses to justify deactivating and fleeing... twice. It's not intuitive to show up both for yourself and your partner when your starting point is low view of self and others. I'm not sure what else to say except...it sucks and the FA needs to learn to be more assertive...and not having any fights is actually a really bad sign. Yes, definitely! I discussed that with him, too. Communication improved but he'd still hold too much in and then just pick fights to break up. Then eventually he tells me he's working on communicating his needs better, and I've now heard the same thing repeatedly in the last year with no real change. Anyway, it's okay, I know the OP is new to attachment theory and am trying to add to the example pile for food for thought and different perspectives.
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Post by epicgum on Sept 2, 2018 2:12:00 GMT
I'm not sure what else to say except...it sucks and the FA needs to learn to be more assertive...and not having any fights is actually a really bad sign. Yes, definitely! I discussed that with him, too. Communication improved but he'd still hold too much in and then just pick fights to break up. Then eventually he tells me he's working on communicating his needs better, and I've now heard the same thing repeatedly in the last year with no real change. Anyway, it's okay, I know the OP is new to attachment theory and am trying to add to the example pile for food for thought and different perspectives. Of course! I'll also say that it is a bit of a cop out to say..."be more assertive!" as though assertiveness and confidence are things you can pick up at the grocery store. But...if you can start to name the problem, then you can start to fix it!
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Post by alexandra on Sept 2, 2018 2:17:38 GMT
I think building self esteem and confidence is KEY to getting started on moving towards earned secure from low view of self AP and FA types! And not bad to work on for anyone really. I've said a lot on that in Jess's thread about tips to work on AP. That's what really kickstarted my own ability to make lasting changes!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 2:27:05 GMT
i've shared it before- it's kind of silly but it worked. when i made a commitment to my healing from this stuff i realized i had this huge problem with hiding my real feelings and needs and aspirations. (with the man i was trying to have a partnership with- big mistake)
i got pretty frustrated and it was hard for me to know how people just DO this.
i literally just started blurting out what i needed to say to express myself truthfully, it was not graceful but i could stand by what i said. I would check myself ... "Juni, you cant control his reaction or the outcome. but you want him to know you as you really are, and understand you. Are you willing to accept any outcome in order to honor you authentic self with him? Yes? ok... 3,2,1... GO!". my hands would sweat sometimes when i made myself vulnerable and said what i really was thinking or feeling.
but i just white knuckled it. over time we built a rapport on that. i guess he does the same. he's been consistently showing up to my truth with his truth for a while now..
What it did was build a fundamental trust that we could be safe with each other. so now, i feel like he really understands me, so i trust his intentions and regard for me- i'm not hiding anything so i don't fear he doesn't get me or that he is in love with something i am not, or that i can't deliver on. he sees me, hears me, and accepts me and is happy about me. It shows, and i trust it.
it was scary at first but now it's really good. the trust is so important. and you have to really show up raw sometimes. but trust itself protects you. it's like a shield from harm you can't name but have been afraid of all your life. it's peaceful to have trust.
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Post by epicgum on Sept 2, 2018 3:02:11 GMT
i've shared it before- it's kind of silly but it worked. when i made a commitment to my healing from this stuff i realized i had this huge problem with hiding my real feelings and needs and aspirations. (with the man i was trying to have a partnership with- big mistake) i got pretty frustrated and it was hard for me to know how people just DO this. i literally just started blurting out what i needed to say to express myself truthfully, it was not graceful but i could stand by what i said. I would check myself ... "Juni, you cant control his reaction or the outcome. but you want him to know you as you really are, and understand you. Are you willing to accept any outcome in order to honor you authentic self with him? Yes? ok... 3,2,1... GO!". my hands would sweat sometimes when i made myself vulnerable and said what i really was thinking or feeling. but i just white knuckled it. over time we built a rapport on that. i guess he does the same. he's been consistently showing up to my truth with his truth for a while now.. What it did was build a fundamental trust that we could be safe with each other. so now, i feel like he really understands me, so i trust his intentions and regard for me- i'm not hiding anything so i don't fear he doesn't get me or that he is in love with something i am not, or that i can't deliver on. he sees me, hears me, and accepts me and is happy about me. It shows, and i trust it. it was scary at first but now it's really good. the trust is so important. and you have to really show up raw sometimes. but trust itself protects you. it's like a shield from harm you can't name but have been afraid of all your life. it's peaceful to have trust. Great post juniper I've screenshotted it for safe keeping. I think I've read the "blurting" thing elsewhere as well. Both myself and my AP ex made the same mistakes you did in terms of "hiding".
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 2, 2018 20:37:49 GMT
Hi all. First time here – great to see such an active forum with so much honesty and support being freely shared. Thank you I’m FA/serial monogamist (ugh), have been aware of it and working on it for several years now. Historically, my faulty logic has been ‘everlasting’ love might exist, but probably not for me, and even though there’s a part of me that wants it, it scares the pants off me at the same time.’ Eventually, love = compromise and compromise = loss of autonomy/engulfment. In an effort to sort my shit out, I’ve been thinking more about deactivation strategies (mine and in general) and I’m wondering what y’all think of this question: How can a successful avoidant tell the difference between the absence of love (it never really existed or it’s gone now) vs. being effectively ‘deactivated’?
The reason I ask is because I split with my gf of 1.5yrs a couple months ago and I’m having a harder time than expected. I won't bore you with the details except to say I pulled my usual BS of withdrawing over several months ahead of a planned trip to Europe with her and my family, she eventually called me out on it in a big argument and we broke up. I've been reflecting a lot because she made a number of really valid points about my role in the decline of the relationship.. and now I'm wondering if I was withdrawing because 'it wasn’t love' or because I was doing the FA deactivation thing (again). Thoughts? I have the same thought. I guess in retrospect what I wish I'd understood was that love is more of a choice or an action than a feeling attached to a particular person. Maybe? Then sometimes I feel like i have no idea what love is. Its frustrating. I agree and I think we insecure attachers especially need to learn to separate the concepts of feeling "in love" and loving someone. You can love someone and choose to be with them without feeling "in love" at all or after an "in love" feeling has faded. Our attachment wounds can affect if we feel that "in love" feeling or feel that it is absent. If that feeling is absent that doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't be with someone, and if it is there doesn't necessarily mean we should be with the person. Jeb has a good article on the difference between love and feeling "in love" here: jebkinnison.com/2014/07/29/limerence-vs-love/
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Post by leavethelighton on Sept 16, 2018 0:36:04 GMT
There's also the question of how much love just is there... or just will or won't be there of its own accord, vs. how much one could create. Some people in arranged marriages claim they learn to love over time, which is very different way to perceive love then the western "you're in love, or you're not" idea.
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