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Post by alexandra on Sept 2, 2018 23:46:35 GMT
For the first time ever, I'm trying to process a very painful breakup while being earned secure, and that's made certain aspects of coping easier but it's also confusingly different from my AP norm.
It's been a couple months since my FA ex dumped me for a second time and a month since I rejected his downgrading back to friends overtures. This time, also for the first time ever, he's giving me lots of space to move on... so I admit that makes me assume he wants to get over it, unlike last time, and that's it. This has been difficult for me, because I do have a deep love and attachment for this person and am still depressed both about losing our strong emotional connection and about feeling powerless over the situation. But I'm also frustrated and angry at myself for patiently putting up with a lot of ambivalent and distancing behavior for so long and not walking away from him first... or from other bad relationships I clung to in the past as AP.
Anyway, I have been functional and seeing friends, going on casual dates, reminding myself of three very real dealbreakers that were making me unhappy with him (all three are related to commitment issues and textbook FA behaviors), and giving myself a positive thought-track without self-blame that reinforces that I deserve a committed partner. Which, I actually believe.
However, today I backtracked because I broke my self-imposed no contact and invited him to join me at an event I'm attending that he'd also like. It was too short notice for him. We didn't exchange pleasantries, it was strictly, are you interested in seeing this with me? Thank you but here are the plans I already have.
I'm trying to forgive myself for the slip up, because it's normal to miss someone you love and are used to being around, but I'm not sure why I did that knowing it couldn't accomplish anything anyway. I know I can't be friends with him right now nor could we have a healthy romantic relationship at this time even if he regretted leaving me a second time, so it actually sends him the wrong signals totally. I've also stayed in no contact with him for months and months in the past (when AP and very focused on working on myself) with no slip ups, and especially not one so early on.
Any tips for the normal secure process for this? I certainly don't want to contribute to an ongoing AP/FA cycle, when I've finally gotten myself out of those habits and activations.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 1:21:11 GMT
alexandra, i'm sorry you're hurting. i hear your disappointment in yourself, for reaching out to him when you understand that there is no way forward in any kind of relationship with him right now. You made probably a deeply reflexive choice to re-establish contact, and like you said, i think that's really understandable. You still have grief. Remember, the grief process has stages- denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. these stages are not linear- you may move through them in cycles and bounce around a little, even for just a short time. maybe you slipped into a little denial, or bargaining, to some degree, and reacted to that, because to hold back and remain no contact may have felt like the path to depression, and sadness you don't feel like you can really bear the full weight of. so you took a little turn perhaps. i hear some fear, maybe, a fear that you might find yourself sliding backwards so to speak, when you have worked so hard and have come so far and are really aware of what you need, and how to take care of your heart. You've made a terribly difficult choice to say no to what hurts too much to continue. Maybe you have some of that desperation we sometimes feel, that futile impotent feeling of not being able to change reality, and also not being able to accept it. that sad and despondent feeling of WHY? In order to proceed with processing all this, maybe the best place to start would be to rest from your fears about your future in this. Maybe, since you are really suffering some loneliness and feeling of missing him, which creates a feeling of lack, you could fortify yourself with a good gratitude session. Not to distract from or deny your real pain and sadness, simply to make a nice stable place for yourself to deal with it. If you can take a moment to stop, look at all the things you are truly thankful for, to strengthen yourself , you might be able to approach the feelings and fears you have from a place of higher confidence. From a state of more abundance, less lack and discontent. Coming from a place of stability in gratitude, even though you have grief, you may be able to feel larger in it, and able to stay grounded and find true insight into your best way forward. all you have to do is do the right thing, right now. regret can leave you in a kind of impaired hangover, where you aren't feeling like your most empowered and confident and wise self. so let the regret go, find some gratitude for the things that are important to you, and you can sit with this loss and disappointment with more ability to stay rooted in your recovery and not be knocked down by this. forgive yourself. and don't worry, you can move forward in a good way, nothing is lost. maybe some pride, but it's ok. hugs.
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 3, 2018 2:01:48 GMT
Are you assuming it's an AP slip-up because you think a secure person would not contact their ex, or because of how you felt about it?
My secure ex, who I ended things with, became friends with me right away, but he said he did it without a huge upsetting attachment to us getting back together, even though he did still want to get back together (and he didn't push for it at all). We are still pretty close. Another secure ex I also broke up with, who I dated for a much shorter amount of time, asked me to do something "as friends" 2 months after the breakup (and has again), but I don't know what his motivations are and I haven't accepted. A secure friend of mine said he stayed in contact with most of his exes until he got in a new more serious relationship and worried it was hurtful to that girlfriend if he hung out with exes. Another secure friend of mine stays in occasional contact with her ex and even slept with him once, their breakup was pretty mutual and they were together for a long time. A secure relative of mine says he doesn't do things with his ex because he isn't looking for more friends and that it would be not be kind to his current partner. From these anecdotes I get the feeling that what a secure person does is more about personal preference and whether they want the other person to remain in their life in some way, plus considerations like how it will affect the ex or new partners, as opposed to there being only one secure path.
The commonality I see is that none of them appear distressed by keeping in contact with or spending time with an ex and it doesn't make them start acting all AP to text them or see them, nor did they seem distressed if they'd chosen to not see or have much contact with an ex.
Interestingly, the advice that 2/4 secure people gave me was to have no contact with my last ex, who broke up with me. One didn't offer advice, and the 4th suggested maybe I should try become friends with my ex right away.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 3, 2018 3:09:31 GMT
Thank you for the responses so far. juniper, I think that's really helpful. One thing I still struggle with in general is gratitude for relationships that have ended, just for having happened. The pain of abandonment usually makes it difficult to really appreciate that me and whoever had something worthwhile until a loooong time after has passed. Since earning secure, I'm not fixated on or freaking out about or faulting myself for "abandonment," but it's still very difficult to fully let him go because -- as much as I've highlighted his behaviors that indicate he's not ready for a healthy relationship meaning I doubly had to accept the breakup and walk away -- the majority of our time together didn't revolve around that, and we are extremely compatible day to day, so I miss my best friend (locally, where I live), too. But I haven't been able to divorce that from my romantic love for him. So there's this feeling that we are so connected that abandonment really isn't necessary on either of our parts in the long run, but I don't know how to reconcile that at the moment. I don't think it has slid me back to responding in an AP way, but I am sensitive to my part in contributing to the push/pull dynamic and think it will be very valuable for my growth to not be contributing to that. I'm very familiar with having a prolonged and thoroughly AP response, believe me And I'm not experiencing that, waiting around for more messages from him, wondering what he's doing, obsessing, anything like that. Still focused on how I need to best be processing my own responses, etc. But I'm interested in hearing advice, and checking and adjusting that what I'm perceiving as secure actually is as I continue to cope. I also tend to stay friends with my exes, though not the ones I was in love with.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 4, 2018 1:13:49 GMT
juniper and happyidiot, I reflected more on what you both said and concluded that what's bothering me (and what I'm asking about) is a boundary issue... that's why I had brought up the AP/FA cycle thing again. We've historically both had messy boundaries contributing to the cycle. He still does, mine are better but I'm still not used to having strong boundaries so it does take conscious work for me to check in with myself when dealing with other insecure types. I'm the one who is keeping us from being friends right now. While I need to take the appropriate time to mourn, there's a sense of I know he doesn't meet my needs, and I miss his friendship, so if I fully accept he is no longer attracted to me, can't we all just get along? But last time I did that, he acted like we were dating and that's how we ended up back here (though now I know better than to go along with it). Plus, the back sliding I wonder about is if trying to be friends signals to him, your bad behavior that didn't always respect me was okay because I'm here as a friend -- inherently displaying weak/enabling (AP) boundaries? So, I'm also asking how to hold a good, secure boundary when you know the bad behavior was insecure attachment injury-related, but that doesn't make it okay? The circumstances around the whiplash breakup were really ridiculous, but too specifically identifying for a public forum. However, that is a separate thing that wouldn't happen if we had just a normal friendship. Maybe I'm just bargaining for how to save only the good parts of our friendship...
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 4, 2018 3:03:24 GMT
This is insightful. I hope it's ok if I respond again with examples from my life and people I know, that's the best way I know of to support my answers for these kinds of questions.
My impression, if I look at secure people I know and at myself when I am in a secure mode, is that when people feel secure they are generally less concerned about what other people think.
I was talking with a secure friend about how I didn't want to be friends with my ex (who I felt AP with) and I said some reasons I was worried about what my ex might think of me (for example that he might think I was trying to get him back if I went to a party he was at, or that I should've expressed more anger last time I saw him so he knows the way he treated me wasn't ok, etc) and my secure friend asked, "Why do you care what he thinks?"
When I look my interactions with exes when I felt secure, or with friends who I'd had boundary issues with, when I am feeling secure I don't worry much about what the person thinks about things like whether or not I am warm and magnanimous towards them. I evaluate what my boundaries are and maintain them, and sometimes they change and that feels ok too. I'm neither a people-pleasing doormat nor someone who feels the need to teach someone a lesson by shutting them out of my life. I just change how I let them affect me.
In the case of an ex who I perceived treated me like we were dating when we came back together the first time, when he was then not meeting some expectations I'd have from someone I was dating I initiated a conversation about it and it came out that he viewed me purely as a friend with benefits. I was feeling secure in this conversation and said I wasn't looking for that. I then didn't see him for a while, because I just didn't want to. It wasn't distressing, I didn't have to force myself to not contact him. After some time had passed, I contacted him just because I felt like talking to him. And I didn't feel any guilt or worry about that. He then invited me to do something and I accepted, but just treated him purely as a normal friend when I saw him. Another time I saw him I did treat him like a friend with benefits. And I felt good throughout all of this, at no point did I even think about what he might think about any of it, even about me going back on what I'd said about not wanting to be FWB, and since then I haven't thought about him much nor felt confused or pulled back into wanting to date him or anything. Now I'm not suggesting sleeping with an ex is a good idea, because you have to be feeling completely secure with zero expectations for that to work, I'm sharing this story to demonstrate that when I am feeling totally secure I can change my boundaries from a secure place, it's about what I want and feel is best for me at the time, as opposed to the kind of boundary-flexing, or lack of even knowing what my boundaries are, that goes on when I'm in an AP mode. It's when I'm feeling AP that I'm concerned with what others think. Don't do something that hurts you just because you think it's what you might do if you were totally secure though. It's secure to be able to recognize when something is likely to hurt you and not do that thing. Will being friends with your ex hurt you?
If I am not feeling secure, I think that is when I may have to have very firm boundaries in order to feel like I am respecting myself. Is one of your boundaries that you didn't want any contact after the breakup?
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Post by alexandra on Sept 4, 2018 22:13:45 GMT
Examples from life are always good! Yes, I do believe you're right that I'm putting too much stock in what he might think about my behavior, and that's clashing with my mostly secure outlook elsewhere. I was also getting upset because I'd started to feel my silence was finally getting to be less about protecting myself from his drama (because I'm okay) and more about appearing strong and consistent in the face of his lousy behavior this summer, and that felt less authentic. It's an extension of the walking on eggshells concept. But how he chooses to act has never really had to do with me anyway, because whether I responded how he wanted or tiptoed around him in the past, he'd always find excuses to distance. So if I want to talk to him as a friend and it's not hurting me or hiding ulterior motives that's okay, and if he's acting like a jerk or I feel emotional and not over him, so instead I want distance, that's okay, too. Which, I acknowledge sounds kind of duuuuuh In regards to my boundaries, I only gave him two, in the spring, but he ignored both. One, I allowed him to ignore even though I should have stuck to my guns (scheduling therapy before we reconciled). The other, I did not allow him to ignore so he ran away instead (not flip flopping immediately once big decisions were made, because I require consistency in commitment at this point in my life). So that's also why I'm sensitive to, am I honoring secure boundaries if I try to engage with him on friendly terms? And while you can make the argument, the most secure thing to do is not think about him at all (maybe staying in no contact again until that's achieved), I think it's still positive that I'm reflecting on where I am in a new process and not just going on auto-pilot back into our bad habits. I'm feeling better than during the original post. I think I've been having good weekdays then feeling more down about it on the weekends, then more better about it after the weekend than I had before. So it's trending upward overall... just not linearly!
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