joan
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Post by joan on Sept 15, 2018 11:13:40 GMT
I've been trying to focus on myself rather than letting my mind get sucked into insecure thoughts about my DA and then going down that rabbit hole. I thought I was doing good. Whenever I'd start getting insecure thoughts about him I'd try different tactics to stop the thoughts. Break the pattern or habit as I've often been told and read to do. Either think of a big red stop sign, or distract myself by doing something else or remind myself that this thought/fear isn't about him, it's an old fear and it's just a thought I don't need to react on. Those tactics seemed to calm me down enough where I felt like I was gaining some control over my thoughts. Especially after hearing my therapist tell me you have control over your mind, your mind doesn't control you. I held onto that.
Unfortunately I'm having a hard time using those tactics because I'm feeling highly triggered right now. I didn't hear from my DA past 3:30 in the afternoon yesterday. Usually he texts me throughout the day and night. I know I could've texted him myself, but I knew if I did text him it was out of an insecure need to know where he was or what he was doing, even if I'll text him about something else to act like it's about something else. I resisted doing that so I could sit with the discomfort of going against my "natural" reaction of needing reassurance that he wasn't out with someone else. That's a recurring fear.
I recognize right now that I'm triggered because I didn't hear much from him. It wasn't the norm, and I've read that anxious people are very sensitive and perceptive to any kind of change or anything out of the ordinary. While we need higher amounts of consistency and reassurance than secures and DA's, I'm hoping to rewire my brain to stop trying to get that externally. I try to tell myself I'm okay and I have everything I need. I won't die or go crazy if I don't get his time or attention. I've had enough exes to know I'll be okay with or without them.
It certainly doesn't feel that way when triggered, but I have to talk to myself in a different way then what I'm used to. Before I'd focus on the person I was with or my current DA. I'd put everything on their behavior for making me feel insecure. Now I try to shift those thoughts to recognizing that it's old, crappy patterns and thoughts coming up. It's not just about being aware that makes change happen, obviously. It's kind of forcing myself to think differently and react differently. Creating new neurological pathways in the brain.
It's not easy, and this is my first big challenge since trying to practice reacting differently. Tomorrow when I see him I'll be so highly tempted to ask him what he was doing or ask why he hardly texted instead of waiting to hear him tell me himself what he did. It'll take all of my strength to bite my tongue, but I'm hoping I can do it. It may not be a big deal to others, but for an anxious person like me it's a big feat.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 15, 2018 15:41:26 GMT
joan In addition to recognizing the AP thought cycles and trying to break the thought/behavior patterns, are you doing anything to also heal whatever may have led to the development of your attachment style in the first place? You do need to do work to rewire your nervous system, but I personally found that gets a whole lot easier when you've gotten down to understanding your core wounds. You can actually think differently about your life and situations because you've dug in deep enough to change your perspective. I also needed to significantly focus on building my self confidence in real ways before I was really able to make solid progress rewiring. I think I'm saying I had to go down deep enough into the pain and build by radiating out from there instead of starting with the AP habits and addressing the "symptoms" first. If you were a circle, the difference between starting from the outer edge and trying to work your way in versus starting from the middle and radiating out to the outer edge.
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joan
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Post by joan on Sept 15, 2018 16:41:31 GMT
Alexandra - I honestly don't know what to do to heal myself other than handling these symptoms as they come up. My therapist has told me she doesn't think going back into my past will help. I disagree with that, and have considered seeing a new therapist. She's of the mind that I need to focus on what I'm doing now, and change how I think or react now rather than digging into old wounds. On my own I've tried digging and I recognize where my fears and insecurities come from. I just wish she would help me explore that more, but she says the past can't be changed so you move on.
She believe I need to focus on building my self confidence like you've said and that's the main thing she highlights in our sessions. Join a yoga class, join a group of some kind, find activities I enjoy and do more things alone. I can see the benefit of that, but like you've said I should go down deep enough into the pain and deal with that.
Occasionally I've been able to do that on my own. Recently when I was triggered and felt the usual insecurity and fear of being cheated on and not being good enough I was able to identify where it came from. It was an old feeling from childhood and I recognized it. My parents always chose their partners over us kids. We had to compete with these partners for their time and attention. I felt alone, disregarded, and ugly on the inside. I acted out and that perpetuated feeling even more ugly. I cried for the child version of me who went through that. I was compassionate to myself and that felt a bit healing.
I'm hoping by recognizing that more often and being more compassionate towards myself I'll make some progress.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 15, 2018 17:13:18 GMT
In my case, it was a matter of recognizing what in my past was dysfunctional. And not changing it, because you can't, but understanding what responsibility I had taken on for others that wasn't actually my pain/ responsibility/trauma, and was the undealt with issues of others that had been projected onto me without me being aware of it. I don't know if that's helpful for you to think about, since everyone has different reasons for their attachment styles developing.
At any rate, I agree totally with any self confidence building work, but if you're otherwise feeling iffy about the therapist you may be able to find a better fit.
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Post by leavethelighton on Sept 15, 2018 23:57:23 GMT
Change is so complex and non-linear. Sometimes it's one step forward two steps back, and other times a tiny change we make then makes a big positive difference in our life. It's a marathon, not a sprint. But keep up the faith that it will get easier over time.
Also it sounds like that therapist may not be a good match for the kind of 'work' you want to do.
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 16, 2018 3:13:14 GMT
Sure, it can be helpful to have some understanding as to where longstanding patterns come from and stop blaming ourselves, but that isn't enough. We can waste a lot of time trying to identify all our past pains and how exactly they shaped us, thinking this will heal us, and that this healing will bring us happiness. Past pains are endless. Things like cognitive behavioral therapy and mindfulness techniques, which focus on a person's present situation and challenges, ARE effective. One can reduce the symptoms and distress of thought distortions and maladaptive behaviors, like those that come from insecure attachment, by learning new ways to process and cope with them. And through doing so, they will lessen and have less power over you. If I go to therapy, I don't want to spend a lot of time and money on talking about my childhood, I can talk to my friends or people on internet forums about that, what I want is advice that gives me results. I want new skills and to know how to put them into practice. Some people may not have anyone they feel comfortable talking to about their childhood, so perhaps talk therapy of the "How did it make you feel when your dad left?" sort might be more helpful for them. It takes attention and care to change lifelong habits. Even when we know what we want to change and have a good idea why we have certain patterns, we can struggle to learn how to actually change and can easily fall back into old ways if triggered by someone or something that opens those old wounds. If you look for them, you can always find wounds in yourself, old and new, to try to cleanse and "heal," but there is no such thing as a completely healed human. You can live in a narrative of personal history, of how you came to be the way you are and how you’re being "fixed" from a state of brokenness, and the story of your healing journey will continue infinitely. Or you can learn how to experience your emotions as different physical sensations, without interpreting them in your usual distressed "needing to be fixed" way. You can learn that it is ok to feel emotional pain, and that you will survive and you don't need someone else to fix your pain. That joy cannot exist without its opposite. That feelings are not in fact "positive" or "negative." That you don't need to react based on your feelings. That you don't need to beat yourself up for having them. And don't disregard your progress just because it isn't linear or isn't as fast as you'd like. It's there! I'm not sure if this is what alexandra meant, but "digging deep into the pain" for me has meant letting myself fully feel my pain. When I don't suppress it and allow myself to fully feel it and meditate on it privately, I may have a realization that I feel like a baby being abandoned, and then I just give myself a hug, and I don't need to make a romantic partner responsible for reassuring me. This is not really "going back into my past" per se, it's not rehashing the details of all the events that might have lead me here. Doing this may bring up my past, but I didn't learn how to do this by thinking and talking about my past. |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 16, 2018 5:33:04 GMT
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 16, 2018 14:50:36 GMT
Hey joan....I think sometimes we can get so fixated on symptoms that we don't consider that there is something deeper that is going on. Case in point....I used to go absolutely crazy about text message response times and I would blame myself for not having a better handle over myself. But I was talking to a friend a couple of weeks ago and it became clear that text messaging was not the issue. The issue was that he was not fully invested in the relationship and that rea woken fears that I could be abandoned at any time. If anything...all my gyrations about text response times etc should have been a signal to me that my needs were not being met on a deeper level. It wasn't an AP thing (although I used AP tactics to try to cope with it) or a DA/FA thing (since I don't honestly know his attachment). It was simply two people who were at different places...saw the "relationship" differently and could not meet each other's needs no matter how good the intention was. I know you are working on your patterns and taking responsibility for your part and trying to change your side of this dynamic....but maybe you need a break from each other for true healing to take place. I know you care about him...I know you care about you....maybe in the time apart you will each find a way to come back together...or maybe you will find that what was keeping you from truly connecting is something that you cannot overcome. It is only a suggestion. I wish you well. |
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andy
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Post by andy on Sept 16, 2018 23:11:11 GMT
Hey joan ....I think sometimes we can get so fixated on symptoms that we don't consider that there is something deeper that is going on. Case in point....I used to go absolutely crazy about text message response times and I would blame myself for not having a better handle over myself. But I was talking to a friend a couple of weeks ago and it became clear that text messaging was not the issue. The issue was that he was not fully invested in the relationship and that rea woken fears that I could be abandoned at any time. If anything...all my gyrations about text response times etc should have been a signal to me that my needs were not being met on a deeper level. It wasn't an AP thing (although I used AP tactics to try to cope with it) or a DA/FA thing (since I don't honestly know his attachment). It was simply two people who were at different places...saw the "relationship" differently and could not meet each other's needs no matter how good the intention was. I know you are working on your patterns and taking responsibility for your part and trying to change your side of this dynamic....but maybe you need a break from each other for true healing to take place. I know you care about him...I know you care about you....maybe in the time apart you will each find a way to come back together...or maybe you will find that what was keeping you from truly connecting is something that you cannot overcome. It is only a suggestion. I wish you well. Interesting. I agree it's an AP tendency to avoid acknowledging that a relationship is not working/meeting our needs, even in the face of strong evidence, by assuming that our feeling of insecurity in the relationship is all in our heads and unreasonable. Paradoxically, though, it's also an AP tendency to draw negative inferences from little things that don't mean much/anything. So we can tend to ignore big actual evidence that the relationship isn't good for us and ALSO convince ourselves that the random noise of daily life is evidence of some scary thing. It can be hard to tell what's what. Maybe it helps to check in with secure friends to see whether they think whatever is going on is cause for upset or concern (in moderation: asking one or two friends once is enough... I've been known to overdo the outside opinion seeking, hehe. We also need to cultivate our trust in our own judgement!). And it should be helpful to have a frank conversation with your partner and see if you're on the same page about what you're looking for from the relationship. (You may already have done this - sorry I'm not familiar with the background here, though I know you've posted before.) A partner's responsiveness to a conversation about each of your hopes and needs in the relationship and their receptiveness to your reasonable requests IS useful evidence for assessing the viability of a relationship. A lack of texts after 3:30 pm on a particular day, taken on its own, is not. And joan, of course you may not be questioning the viability of your relationship at all - I am only bringing this up because it came up in tnr9's post. Also, I can totally relate about being on high-alert regarding changes in others' communication and behaviour. For me I think that stems from having multiple best friends turn on me really viciously when I was little. Maybe it helps to look back with compassion on all the times that people were unpredictable and unreliable when you needed them most and remind yourself that your sensitivity to change is a natural response to what you went through that allowed you to stay relatively safe at the time, AND also that you're now an adult who is entirely capable of keeping yourself safe and ensuring your needs get met even if not everyone is reliable, and also that you can trust yourself to pick people to get close with who ARE reliable and worthy of your trust (not just of your adoration). I agree with leavethelighton that it's all a process and it's natural that it can take time to get the triggers feeling less intense. It sounds like you are doing lots of great work. |
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joan
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Post by joan on Sept 17, 2018 4:35:30 GMT
In my case, it was a matter of recognizing what in my past was dysfunctional. And not changing it, because you can't, but understanding what responsibility I had taken on for others that wasn't actually my pain/ responsibility/trauma, and was the undealt with issues of others that had been projected onto me without me being aware of it. I don't know if that's helpful for you to think about, since everyone has different reasons for their attachment styles developing. At any rate, I agree totally with any self confidence building work, but if you're otherwise feeling iffy about the therapist you may be able to find a better fit. Yes that is helpful for me and something I've been working on being more aware of. In the past and still today I take on a lot of my parents and partner's issues. I do still have to stop and really think about it to realize their behavior is more to do with them then me. When I wrote this post on Friday night I was upset that my partner hadn't texted me that night like he usually does. The next day when I saw him I came to realize that he was a bit upset that when he texted me the night before on Thursday I hadn't texted him back. That was because I was sleeping. There were certain things he said that told me he was paying me back for not responding to his text. It sounds childish I know, but I was able to see that what happened was a result of his issues. Yet I turned it into mine. At some point I do believe I need to find a new therapist. I hate to start over with a new one, but after three years with this one I don't know if I'm getting very far. |
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joan
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Post by joan on Sept 17, 2018 4:43:17 GMT
Change is so complex and non-linear. Sometimes it's one step forward two steps back, and other times a tiny change we make then makes a big positive difference in our life. It's a marathon, not a sprint. But keep up the faith that it will get easier over time. Also it sounds like that therapist may not be a good match for the kind of 'work' you want to do. I totally agree with you compassionateavoid. It feels exactly like taking one step forward and two steps back. I wrote those exact same words in my journal the other night! Any change is good, so I try not to be deterred by setbacks, but feel positive about the small victories. If I can conquer one anxious moment then I feel good about that. If I end losing to my anxiety in another moment then I'll try to figure out how to work through it the next time. I agree I need to find a therapist that has more experience in the kind of issues I'm dealing with too. |
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joan
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Posts: 100
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Post by joan on Sept 17, 2018 5:00:19 GMT
Sure, it can be helpful to have some understanding as to where longstanding patterns come from and stop blaming ourselves, but that isn't enough. We can waste a lot of time trying to identify all our past pains and how exactly they shaped us, thinking this will heal us, and that this healing will bring us happiness. Past pains are endless. Things like cognitive behavioral therapy and mindfulness techniques, which focus on a person's present situation and challenges, ARE effective. One can reduce the symptoms and distress of thought distortions and maladaptive behaviors, like those that come from insecure attachment, by learning new ways to process and cope with them. And through doing so, they will lessen and have less power over you. If I go to therapy, I don't want to spend a lot of time and money on talking about my childhood, I can talk to my friends or people on internet forums about that, what I want is advice that gives me results. I want new skills and to know how to put them into practice. Some people may not have anyone they feel comfortable talking to about their childhood, so perhaps talk therapy of the "How did it make you feel when your dad left?" sort might be more helpful for them. It takes attention and care to change lifelong habits. Even when we know what we want to change and have a good idea why we have certain patterns, we can struggle to learn how to actually change and can easily fall back into old ways if triggered by someone or something that opens those old wounds. If you look for them, you can always find wounds in yourself, old and new, to try to cleanse and "heal," but there is no such thing as a completely healed human. You can live in a narrative of personal history, of how you came to be the way you are and how you’re being "fixed" from a state of brokenness, and the story of your healing journey will continue infinitely. Or you can learn how to experience your emotions as different physical sensations, without interpreting them in your usual distressed "needing to be fixed" way. You can learn that it is ok to feel emotional pain, and that you will survive and you don't need someone else to fix your pain. That joy cannot exist without its opposite. That feelings are not in fact "positive" or "negative." That you don't need to react based on your feelings. That you don't need to beat yourself up for having them. And don't disregard your progress just because it isn't linear or isn't as fast as you'd like. It's there! I'm not sure if this is what alexandra meant, but "digging deep into the pain" for me has meant letting myself fully feel my pain. When I don't suppress it and allow myself to fully feel it and meditate on it privately, I may have a realization that I feel like a baby being abandoned, and then I just give myself a hug, and I don't need to make a romantic partner responsible for reassuring me. This is not really "going back into my past" per se, it's not rehashing the details of all the events that might have lead me here. Doing this may bring up my past, but I didn't learn how to do this by thinking and talking about my past. Yes I agree cognitive behavioral therapy and mindfulness are things that I'd like to work on more. I hear so much about it, and my old therapist who I only saw briefly worked on that for a little bit. Unfortunately he no longer took my insurance so I wasn't able to see him anymore. My new therapist doesn't seem to be that experienced with those methods or just doesn't have as effective ways of teaching me it. I try to learn on my own, but I plan on finding a therapist who specializes in that in the hopes I can delve into it more. I see what you're saying as far as experiencing my emotions as different physical sensations. That's something I recently read and made so much sense to me. I try to intellectualize my emotions rather than feeling them and really just sitting with them and letting them pass. I want to fix it, stop it and in that panic to shut those emotions and sensations down, I cause myself more anxiety. That's when I'll do something impulsive that I'll regret like sending a text to my partner asking where he is or what he's doing or starting a conflict in some way or another. That will be my way of getting reassurance and for him to fix my pain, but it will only cause him to distance, thereby causing me more anxiety and pain. What you said about feeling like a baby being abandoned and then giving yourself compassion. That's something I recently did for myself and it really did help. I recognized what I needed, compassion for myself and I talked to my old self with compassion. It was the first time I was able to really understand and actually do that. It's still something I have to work at though since it doesn't come naturally.  |
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joan
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Post by joan on Sept 17, 2018 5:01:30 GMT
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joan
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Post by joan on Sept 17, 2018 5:17:21 GMT
Hey joan ....I think sometimes we can get so fixated on symptoms that we don't consider that there is something deeper that is going on. Case in point....I used to go absolutely crazy about text message response times and I would blame myself for not having a better handle over myself. But I was talking to a friend a couple of weeks ago and it became clear that text messaging was not the issue. The issue was that he was not fully invested in the relationship and that rea woken fears that I could be abandoned at any time. If anything...all my gyrations about text response times etc should have been a signal to me that my needs were not being met on a deeper level. It wasn't an AP thing (although I used AP tactics to try to cope with it) or a DA/FA thing (since I don't honestly know his attachment). It was simply two people who were at different places...saw the "relationship" differently and could not meet each other's needs no matter how good the intention was. I know you are working on your patterns and taking responsibility for your part and trying to change your side of this dynamic....but maybe you need a break from each other for true healing to take place. I know you care about him...I know you care about you....maybe in the time apart you will each find a way to come back together...or maybe you will find that what was keeping you from truly connecting is something that you cannot overcome. It is only a suggestion. I wish you well. Yes tnr9 I agree you. While I have my attachment issues, my current partner definitely triggers them much more than someone who showed more investment in me. The thing is when I was with I believe a more secure partner I was still easily triggered. If anything I acted out worse because he allowed it. My current partner who's possibly DA would not tolerate the amount of questioning and protest behaviors I displayed with my ex secure partner. He'd walk away. I know that, and that's what makes me feel so uneasy. My ex secure partner stuck through it, and with time I calmed down. Unfortunately that calm, peaceful relationship started to feel like a lack of passion. I got bored, restless and felt like I was falling out of love. So while I say I want a calm, loving, consistent and peaceful relationship, somewhere inside me doesn't know how. They say AP's are just as emotionally unavailable as DA's and I agree with that. I've come to recognize that in myself. I feel if I were to find a secure partner I'd get triggered into avoidance as I have in the past. I don't know how to love or accept love from a partner. I may have feelings of it, but the dysfunction in me would almost rather chase it then get it.  |
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joan
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Post by joan on Sept 17, 2018 5:39:00 GMT
Hey joan ....I think sometimes we can get so fixated on symptoms that we don't consider that there is something deeper that is going on. Case in point....I used to go absolutely crazy about text message response times and I would blame myself for not having a better handle over myself. But I was talking to a friend a couple of weeks ago and it became clear that text messaging was not the issue. The issue was that he was not fully invested in the relationship and that rea woken fears that I could be abandoned at any time. If anything...all my gyrations about text response times etc should have been a signal to me that my needs were not being met on a deeper level. It wasn't an AP thing (although I used AP tactics to try to cope with it) or a DA/FA thing (since I don't honestly know his attachment). It was simply two people who were at different places...saw the "relationship" differently and could not meet each other's needs no matter how good the intention was. I know you are working on your patterns and taking responsibility for your part and trying to change your side of this dynamic....but maybe you need a break from each other for true healing to take place. I know you care about him...I know you care about you....maybe in the time apart you will each find a way to come back together...or maybe you will find that what was keeping you from truly connecting is something that you cannot overcome. It is only a suggestion. I wish you well. Interesting. I agree it's an AP tendency to avoid acknowledging that a relationship is not working/meeting our needs, even in the face of strong evidence, by assuming that our feeling of insecurity in the relationship is all in our heads and unreasonable. Paradoxically, though, it's also an AP tendency to draw negative inferences from little things that don't mean much/anything. So we can tend to ignore big actual evidence that the relationship isn't good for us and ALSO convince ourselves that the random noise of daily life is evidence of some scary thing. It can be hard to tell what's what. Maybe it helps to check in with secure friends to see whether they think whatever is going on is cause for upset or concern (in moderation: asking one or two friends once is enough... I've been known to overdo the outside opinion seeking, hehe. We also need to cultivate our trust in our own judgement!). And it should be helpful to have a frank conversation with your partner and see if you're on the same page about what you're looking for from the relationship. (You may already have done this - sorry I'm not familiar with the background here, though I know you've posted before.) A partner's responsiveness to a conversation about each of your hopes and needs in the relationship and their receptiveness to your reasonable requests IS useful evidence for assessing the viability of a relationship. A lack of texts after 3:30 pm on a particular day, taken on its own, is not. And joan , of course you may not be questioning the viability of your relationship at all - I am only bringing this up because it came up in tnr9 's post. Also, I can totally relate about being on high-alert regarding changes in others' communication and behaviour. For me I think that stems from having multiple best friends turn on me really viciously when I was little. Maybe it helps to look back with compassion on all the times that people were unpredictable and unreliable when you needed them most and remind yourself that your sensitivity to change is a natural response to what you went through that allowed you to stay relatively safe at the time, AND also that you're now an adult who is entirely capable of keeping yourself safe and ensuring your needs get met even if not everyone is reliable, and also that you can trust yourself to pick people to get close with who ARE reliable and worthy of your trust (not just of your adoration). I agree with leavethelighton that it's all a process and it's natural that it can take time to get the triggers feeling less intense. It sounds like you are doing lots of great work. Yeah it is difficult to decipher what's normal behavior within a relationship and what's not. I do have to check in with friends and my therapist to try to determine even the small things like not getting a text or certain relational situations. I've exhausted my friends and even my therapist with these questions though so I've come to trying to sort them out myself. It can get quite lonely and depressing and I'm glad to have this forum to ask these questions and express my feelings. It's been so very helpful. I really appreciate the kind and intelligent insight I get from everyone here. It's really been like having another form of therapy. Having these issues, it's hard to sometimes know your own mind let alone to try to figure out someone else's. I've been working at staying away from trying to figure out my partner's mind, and working on figuring out my own. |
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