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Post by wahlookie on Sept 16, 2018 22:15:11 GMT
I had made a previous forum post highlighting my situation with a girl that i thought was FA. We had a few breaks since but the cycle still continues. We get close for a few days. I do something or say something that either pisses her off or scares her and she tells me to leave her alone after we have an argument. then a few days later she messages me and we talk about it for a bit. i usually apologize cause i dont want to lose her and we act like everything is ok she says things sometimes that scare me She says that she has no trust for me and that she never sees me change. however i feel like im walking on eggshells with her, just waiting for her to blow up on me. she says that i dont deserve her kindness when she is mad at me. that i havent done anything to change it so why should she suddenly trust me. I feel like she blows up at me over the smallest things. The other day she was going to bed, i asked her if she was at her parents house or her own house and she got annoyed i asked the question and then blew up on me. and then we had a long argument about it.
And when we argue and i complain to her that i feel that im walking on egg shells and that some of the stuff she does is abusive (like the silent treatment stuff which drives my AP side insane), she says "why dont you just leave then if im so bad?" idk what to do. she says that im afraid to lose her and honestly i kind of am.
we just had another argument a day ago and she blew up at me, told me to leave her alone, messages me a bit later after blocking me for a short while. tells me that she wants me to see that i was the one who messed up and that right now her trust for me is super thin and that i dont deserve her to be kind to me. as usual i apologize because i am anxious as fuck and i dont like being away from her.
I just dont really know what to do. she keeps telling me that she does want to be close like how we used to be and regain her trust for me and when we are on good terms, we are talking a lot and having a fun time together. But when shes mad at me, she says a lot of mean things that make me feel really sad. what do i even do? now we are on good terms but im just kind of confused. i really just dont know what she wants. i have like no power in this dynamic and its all on her terms. I know shes just waiting for me to either say something that pisses her off or scare her and she will blow up on me again. i really like her and she means a lot to me but this is driving me insane.
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andy
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Post by andy on Sept 16, 2018 23:33:40 GMT
I don't know much about this situation but it sounds really really hard.
Does she acknowledge the frequent blow-ups and periods of silent treatment are a serious problem in the relationship that you both need to work on together? Do you get the sense that she wants to collaborate with you to change the pattern here?
She keeps saying that she doesn't trust you. Has she explained what that's about? From your own self-reflection, do you think you've behaved in ways that have undermined her trust? And/or is some trust issue being triggered for her here that isn't entirely about you? Has she proposed steps you can take to repair the trust?
Saying that somebody does not deserve kindness is a VERY intense thing to say. How do you feel about being with somebody who would say that to you? Do YOU think you deserve kindness? I do, and I don't even know you. My personal view is that conflict and hurt are best worked through with assertiveness and good boundaries and frankness and self-protection AND basic kindness as well... or at least respect. I guess it all depends what that word means to her.
You say you really like her, and at the same time there's so much going on in this relationship that seems really stressful and hurtful. Have you done some thinking about whether your liking her so much despite her behaviour stems from your own attachment wounds?
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andy
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Post by andy on Sept 16, 2018 23:45:52 GMT
And also, have you talked to her about your desire to change the pattern of arguing and distancing? Or is the communication between you only about whatever you've been arguing about, which seems like it may be a distraction and probably isn't the most urgent issue to address?
I think it might be important to voice your intention to help change the pattern of communication, explain what your part of that might look like (owning what's yours fully, and not taking on anything more than that), check in with her about whether you are correctly understanding her needs and her concerns with your behaviour, and make some clear and assertive requests of her as well? Maybe you could suggest checking in again about how things are going at a particular time or at regular intervals.
You may have done this already but I know sometimes communication gets stuck at the level of the content of arguments and there is a need to zoom out and discuss patterns and big unmet needs. And having that conversation can reveal a lot about whether both parties are able and willing to work at the relationship, without which the relationship will never get any better.
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Post by wahlookie on Sept 17, 2018 0:34:12 GMT
1. She acknowledges it but she says that its myself that prompts them and causes them. When she suddenly does her FA thing where she goes distant for a few days or 1 day shes like "im not in a good mood" it usually stresses me out a bit. I might ask her a question or say something that annoys her and then we argue. Like if she ditches me and she says shes busy but she actually isnt busy, i get kinda sad and i bring it up and then we have a fight. Or when she doesnt really show as much willingness to hang out but still messages me, i get sad also. Ive done a lot for her. Not saying i deserve anything amazing but when shes asked me for favors (monetarily, etc) i always do it and whenever she wants to talk or spend time, im there. however when i ask her, sometimes she just dodges me entirely and i bring it up and she says "stop expecting me to do it just because you do it for me." 2. after she said she wanted to 'take it slow/take a step back' i did things that definitely made her lose trust for me. very needy/clingy/overbearing things such as spamming her so i understand that her trust for me is low. but she always holds it over me. she's had trust issues her entire life cue her FA tendencies. she barely trusts anyone tbh. And she tells me the only way to regain/repair our trust is for me to show that im willing to work on myself and change my bad behaviors (being overbearing/annoying to her). she basically just wants to live her life and do everything on her terms and she will slowly regain her trust for me. She hates the feeling of being controlled and not independent. 3. I mean i definitely get sad when she says that. when shes upset at me she says things like that. like she gets really angry and that im the reason for the argument and that i deserve her anger. and its been so many arguments that i think she just doesnt really respect me much anymore which makes me sad. 4. in general, its hard for me to really like some1. shes very smart and intellectual about things/world so it attracts me quite a bit. and when we have our fun moments, its like our chemistry is really really good. we understand each other well and help each other out. i guess im afraid i wont ever find someone as good as her in those aspects.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 17, 2018 0:39:34 GMT
It sounds to me like you are talking at each other then really listening to and being curious and asking more clarifying questions. As such, neither of you feels heard or acknowledged and as such..no progress is made. When she says she cannot trust you...instead of telling her you are trying to make progress or telling her that you feel like you are walking on eggshells...ask questions to better understand where she is coming from. What is it that makes trusting me so difficult? How can I show you that I am trustworthy? What actions would signify to you that I am making changes? These questions open dialogue..they acknowledge her and let her know that you care about the relationship between the two of you. Just a suggestion.
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Post by wahlookie on Sept 17, 2018 0:41:35 GMT
5. well the last few times, ive been stepping up for myself and telling her that i dont like how she treats me. that its emotional/mental abuse. I usually try to compromise in regards to the argument because in general i hate conflict. i defend myself for a bit, and then we end up arguing and she gets really mad and then after a while i usually say sorry.
I have asked her why her trust for me is low, she says that usually we make up for a bit and i promise i wont do it again but then she does something that really hurts me and i bring it up and it makes her mad. For example im in her town for a bit cause of a business trip and i try to schedule plans with her to maybe get lunch or dinner and she says she cant make it and im just really confused. she has free time, i know it for sure. She knows i will be sad that she wont come out to see me and she still messages me here and there during my business trip trying to make talk. Obviously i get triggered and say something and we get into an argument. If someone really wanted to spend time with you, they would do it right? Also ive done so much for her and im not sure if shes testing me to see how i react but i end up acting the annoyed/overbearing way and want to see her badly and she just straight up rejects me knowing how i will feel.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 17, 2018 0:59:35 GMT
5. well the last few times, ive been stepping up for myself and telling her that i dont like how she treats me. that its emotional/mental abuse. I usually try to compromise in regards to the argument because in general i hate conflict. i defend myself for a bit, and then we end up arguing and she gets really mad and then after a while i usually say sorry. I have asked her why her trust for me is low, she says that usually we make up for a bit and i promise i wont do it again but then she does something that really hurts me and i bring it up and it makes her mad. For example im in her town for a bit cause of a business trip and i try to schedule plans with her to maybe get lunch or dinner and she says she cant make it and im just really confused. she has free time, i know it for sure. She knows i will be sad that she wont come out to see me and she still messages me here and there during my business trip trying to make talk. Obviously i get triggered and say something and we get into an argument. If someone really wanted to spend time with you, they would do it right? Also ive done so much for her and im not sure if shes testing me to see how i react but i end up acting the annoyed/overbearing way and want to see her badly and she just straight up rejects me knowing how i will feel. It honestly sounds like you don't trust her either...you are angry and defensive....and I think this is just toxic for both of you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 2:09:00 GMT
this is a toxic relationship. you sound as though you identify as a victim. you can analyze her here until the cows come home and it won't help you. you can take responsibility for your half of this dynamic, but it sounds as though you minimize your contributions and tend to blame her. if you don't like being abused then figure out why you are still there. i'll give you a hint: it's your own dysfunction, and you seek to change and accommodate and rebel against her instead of making the choice to enforce your own healthy boundaries and leave, (all th while claiming that she is the one with the control issues doing things on her terms. )
the fact is, you don't accept her as she is, she doesn't accept you, you both are toxic and angry and wanting the other to accept responsibility and change.
You are fighting for your terms, which you feel are right, and just not being successful. that may make you feel like she is getting everything on her terms- but clearly she is not if she is angry and thinks you should work on yourself.
so, it sounds like a power struggle, not a relationship.
This is not a mutually respectful and compatible dynamic, and it's not just her fault. it's both of you, acting out together. at least that's what it reads like to me.
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Post by wahlookie on Sept 17, 2018 3:38:05 GMT
Im not saying im entirely the victim but i do think it isnt right to say those things. no matter how mad i am at someone i would never give them the silent treatment nor would i say things like they dont deserve my kindness. i know sometimes i get stressed out and overbearing when she suddenly just stops talking to me for a few days. or when she dodges me when i ask to go out and stuff and still messages me. I just dont really know what to do in these situations in the AP-FA dynamic. do i just let her be and slowly let her regain her trust for me? i know i had my own share of controlling behaviors. it was one of the reasons she broke up with me, she said i would try to control her through my insecurities and emotionally manipulate her. if she didnt do something that i asked her to do, i would end up being sad and emo and shove it in her face or whine about it.
yea i guess it has turned out to be a power struggle. i dont trust her fully now because of some of the stuff she says and the way she treats me and she feels the exact same.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 4:24:33 GMT
Im not saying im entirely the victim but i do think it isnt right to say those things. no matter how mad i am at someone i would never give them the silent treatment nor would i say things like they dont deserve my kindness. i know sometimes i get stressed out and overbearing when she suddenly just stops talking to me for a few days. or when she dodges me when i ask to go out and stuff and still messages me. I just dont really know what to do in these situations in the AP-FA dynamic. do i just let her be and slowly let her regain her trust for me? i know i had my own share of controlling behaviors. it was one of the reasons she broke up with me, she said i would try to control her through my insecurities and emotionally manipulate her. if she didnt do something that i asked her to do, i would end up being sad and emo and shove it in her face or whine about it. yea i guess it has turned out to be a power struggle. i dont trust her fully now because of some of the stuff she says and the way she treats me and she feels the exact same. i agree it isn't right to say those things. what i mean about being a victim, is that as an adult with choices and the personal responsibility to develop healthy boundaries to protect yourself from other people's destructive behaviors, you are not a victim if you avoid that responsibility, you are a volunteer. i understand full well that it takes experience and maturity to come to the insight that we are primarily responsible for our own health and well being as adults, and that we cannot make everyone or anyone around us behave the way we wish them to. I also understand that these patterns in us were created when we were powerless as children, and continue into adulthood and cause us to give our power away. The fact is, that beyond setting boundaries and enforcing them in these situations, there isn't much more influence to be had over someone else's dysfunction, but we have power over our own, and choices to make around it. So, i won't be interacting with you more about her poor behavior, simply because i have no influence over it and neither do you. However, if you were to gain an active interest in developing and enforcing healthy boundaries for your own well being, instead of focusing on her behaviors, i would be happy to pull in along side and support you here. wishing you empowerment- and the end of the fantasy of a good outcome from continuing to participate such an unhealthy and toxic dynamic.
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Post by wahlookie on Sept 17, 2018 5:23:52 GMT
its been a long ride. shes honestly been such a big part of my entire last year (we actually became a couple last year on september 17 so it is a date for me to remember.) i agree with you that theres no point in analyzing her behavior. its more so how i recover from this and become the confident person that i used to be, because tbh ive lost a lot of it along the way and its made me very insecure in many ways too. i care about her a shit ton and i really do genuinely want her to be happy. i want to build a meaningful close connection between us and not just because i have feelings for her. its hard for me to just replace people that i really consider close in my life and tbh thats only been a handful so far. Shes the closest ive ever been to someone and she has a lot of features that attract me. however i dont want this constant rollercoaster cycle. it affects me more than her and i know it for a fact. i just dont really know what to do. i get these anxiety/depression attacks when we dont talk for a while and even the thought of her just being completely out of my life scares me.
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Post by lilyg on Sept 17, 2018 11:35:55 GMT
I am sorry you're going through this. I can understand the anxiety that the possibility of losing her is inducing you. Are you still together after a break-up or you've broken up and are 'being friends' right now? I tell you this because while I'm pretty secure, but breaking up with my boyfriend and getting back together has made me more anxious and alert. As our trust has been broken by this, I'm sometimes triggered by my own fears. It has been good for me to understand where these thoughts and actions are coming from so I can talk them with my partner. Of course, she has to be willing to understand and be present when something has to be adressed. You asking for help and reassurance has to be a very honest talk… no protest behaviours or 'emotional manipulation'. If she cannot go there with you it'll be impossible. If you cannot control yourself and stop spamming her for assurance it'll be impossible too.
If you've broken up, I suggest you go no contact for a while, at least a month, so you can work on yourself and give you both mental and emotional space to think through all of this.
Have you discussed attachment styles with her? It seems you're aware of both of your attachment styles, but is she? At this moment in your relationship you both have to be very understanding on each others' dynamic. You both need to be aware on what's going on.
I can see her doing her life her own way, it's exactly like my boyfriend. It's something I actually admire, I'm kinda like that too on many ways. But I have developed a fear I'm working on. So I try to respect that space and drive but I also try to inspire him to be more intimate and draw healthy boundaries that I need in order to be in a relationship. You cannot just let her be and disconnect from her, but you have to give her space, she has to make decisions. It has to be organic and gentle. There has to be no agenda… both of you have to be willing to work on developing a real relationship: understanding, trustful… a safe place to be yourselves.
It seems that you are very good on your work and you have a stable life. Focus on that and regain the power of your life. Focus on other important relationships for you. You cannot control her, you can control you and your insight of yourself. Healthy boundaries come from within. You have to feel good about yourself to gain a more objective perspective on everything.
There's a lot of information about avoidance here, I recommend you to read and try to understand the place where she's coming from. If you still feel she cannot give you what you need, maybe you have to think if you really want to keep this cycle. Love is not about taking hostages (I'm talking about her and you both). You both have to practice secure bonding.
I've had some problems with my anxiety and texting, you can go search for my thread as there are some great insights of amazing posters here.
Take care! I hope this forums helps you as much as it has helped me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 11:50:51 GMT
its been a long ride. shes honestly been such a big part of my entire last year (we actually became a couple last year on september 17 so it is a date for me to remember.) i agree with you that theres no point in analyzing her behavior. its more so how i recover from this and become the confident person that i used to be, because tbh ive lost a lot of it along the way and its made me very insecure in many ways too. i care about her a shit ton and i really do genuinely want her to be happy. i want to build a meaningful close connection between us and not just because i have feelings for her. its hard for me to just replace people that i really consider close in my life and tbh thats only been a handful so far. Shes the closest ive ever been to someone and she has a lot of features that attract me. however i dont want this constant rollercoaster cycle. it affects me more than her and i know it for a fact. i just dont really know what to do. i get these anxiety/depression attacks when we dont talk for a while and even the thought of her just being completely out of my life scares me. i can really hear your pain and grief in this post. i wonder, if you have a history of childhood trauma that influences your ability to bond with a hurtful partner? i know that for many of us insecurely attached, trauma bonding and trying to (unconsciously) recreate and repair ( while also avoiding the impact) of our original wounding is central to our patterns. have you done any inner child work or trauma therapy yourself?
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Post by wahlookie on Sept 17, 2018 18:36:32 GMT
Yea i admire that she wants to do life her own way. When we were in a relationship, we both got really really attached to each other and we started declining in other parts of our life. We are being friends right now. she doesnt want a relationship at the moment in her life and wants to focus on school/work. I admire it because it shows she does have some ambition. I do have a stable job and life. However anyone that has been depressed knows that this doesnt really help even though i love my job. My problem is that i dont know how to find a balance between respecting her space and drive but also being there for her. Do i just stop messaging her and let her message me? do i detach myself? what do i do in certain situations like when we are close and she suddenly just goes missing for a few days.
I do know i cant control her nor can i force her to do things she doesnt want to do. I probably have to work on myself and gain a more logical approach to us.
I have no childhood trauma. my first girlfriend had NPD and that definitely made me insecure in some aspects. she would do the whole constant breakup to test if i like her or not and want me to show her attention 24/7. it was a bit too much and i broke up with her. As a child i was very very overprotected by my parents. Im a single child and they love me unconditionally. It did definitely make me anxious in a lot of ways in my future relationships.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 17, 2018 19:20:17 GMT
Yea i admire that she wants to do life her own way. When we were in a relationship, we both got really really attached to each other and we started declining in other parts of our life. We are being friends right now. she doesnt want a relationship at the moment in her life and wants to focus on school/work. I admire it because it shows she does have some ambition. I do have a stable job and life. However anyone that has been depressed knows that this doesnt really help even though i love my job. My problem is that i dont know how to find a balance between respecting her space and drive but also being there for her. Do i just stop messaging her and let her message me? do i detach myself? what do i do in certain situations like when we are close and she suddenly just goes missing for a few days. I do know i cant control her nor can i force her to do things she doesnt want to do. I probably have to work on myself and gain a more logical approach to us. I have no childhood trauma. my first girlfriend had NPD and that definitely made me insecure in some aspects. she would do the whole constant breakup to test if i like her or not and want me to show her attention 24/7. it was a bit too much and i broke up with her. As a child i was very very overprotected by my parents. Im a single child and they love me unconditionally. It did definitely make me anxious in a lot of ways in my future relationships. I think one avenue to explore is whether you have some enmeshment issues....that is where you see the other person as an extension of you and vice versa. When boundaries get blurred it is easy to assume you have to take care of another person or have that person take care of you. Seeing yourself as separate/unique and able to handle your own life and vice versa is really important in any relationship. I wonder if you aren't trying to be overprotective of her which is causing her to want to define the relationship and her self in order to not feel overwhelmed.
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